Jesus Vs. OT God (The imposter)

reply to post by Akragon

God is Jealous? I think not... This Imposter is Jealous, envious and Wrathful...

about 6 months or so ago i read in the bible 'God is jealous' too the above quote of yours is exactly the words that got me questioning who the lord was in the ot too, the following verses then confirmed that there was definitely something wrong about the way the lord seems to address himself differently throughout the bible,

Isaiah 48 King James Version (KJV)
48 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.
2 For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The Lord of hosts is his name.

i could be way off the mark here but this is how i came to the conclusion that the lord of hosts in the OT is satan as satan fooled the angels (hosts) into following him and he became lord over them and then impersonated god

when i pointed this out to my husband he was a bit weary of what i was saying as the implications of it are huge but i've shown him why i believe this to be true and he can now see my point

these are just my thoughts on the subject

reply to post by arpgme

Akragon, the current OP, made a thread called, A story of a Snake: The most cunning of all creatures where mention is made of the snake on a stick.

For literary reference, in accordance with JMDewey's mention of literary devices, recall

2 Kings 18:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

In one of the more egregious "reforms", of returning to fundamentals, the snake on the pole was destroyed, for fear of idolatry.

Jesus made mention of himself, alluding also to the snake on a stick: John 3:14–15, "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life".

The "lifting up", should include the idea that once seen, he himself, was lifted all the way away, to become "the hidden man." We don't see him, yet some of his teachings remain. God achieved what reformers failed to do. Yet people have still managed to make an idol of Jesus, and his words, and words about him (New Testament worship).

The problem seems to be in people's hearts,

The actual concrete version of the hidden man is actually the face of the people we do see, especially those in need. It is very difficult to think that we would accidently worship those in need. Little chance for idolatry there. Jesus set it up that way.

reply to post by jmdewey60


So technically we see Jesus doing a bit of Cherry picking, which is quite amusing to say the least...

But take a look at the verse he used in those passages when compared to the rest of that chapter in Zechariah...

7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts

Notice Jesus didn't say that... can we assume this lord of hosts is the Father he spoke of on the regular?

Christians can... i can not... so we continue on with the verse Jesus actually used....

...............

smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered

...............

A grand total of 8 words... but yet Jesus ignores the rest of the chapter, where we hear the OT God comming through in the words....

.............

and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

............

Wait... what?

Who are the little ones? Children perhaps?

The OT God has no issue with destroying women and children... and theres an interesting passage in Matthew thats associated with this idea...

In Matthew 19 we see people bringing children to Jesus...

Notice how HIS diciples which are followers of this OT God treat them?

13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.

But Jesus would have no part of it....

14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

But either way this is assuming where it says "i will turn my hand on the little ones" is meant as children... So its debatable who these "little ones" are...

So we continue on with Zechariah.....

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

More bad news.... And i don't recall this event being mentioned in the NT... i could be wrong....

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

So this final third will call "this lord" God...

I personally would not...

This lord is this imposter i am trying to point out in my threads... There is a huge difference between the Father of Jesus and this "lord" that is spoken of in the OT.

By the way, why do you read other peoples opinions from books on scripture?

Books are written to make money these days...

reply to post by pthena

The problem seems to be in people's hearts,

Exactly!!

The actual concrete version of the hidden man is actually the face of the people we do see, especially those in need.

Theres an interesting correlation here between a verse in Matthew and Thomas

Matthew

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

............

Thomas

77 Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

Both verses give the impression that God is in everything... and everyone... Jesus being a part of God... as everyone else and everything else is...

NOT God in the flesh...

A man that kept his memories of "the Father" at birth... Unlike the rest of Gods children....

He was special

reply to post by Akragon

and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
............
Wait... what?
Who are the little ones? Children perhaps?

This is where BOOKS come in handy.
read this one:
Bringing Out the Treasure: Inner Biblical Allusion in Zechariah 9-14 (Library Hebrew Bible/Old Testament Studies), by Mark J. Boda (editor).

It is generally agreed within Hebrew Bible scholarship that Zechariah 9-14 is filled with allusions to other books within the Hebrew canon. Rex Mason's doctoral dissertation in the early 1970s contributed significantly to the foundation of this consensus. However, although Mason's thesis remains a seminal work for those studying Deutero-Zechariah, it has never been published. This volume contains the first publication of that work together with reflections from leading biblical scholars who have published on Zechariah 9-14. The volume is rounded off with a response by Mason to these scholars and a reflection on his own contribution thirty years ago.

So not just one person's opinion, but rather ten opinions. This is academia, not people shilling for cults with their hands out.
There is a lot of value to reading people's research where they go to the trouble of hunting down all the possible references for likely sources of sayings and their meanings. For example this question right here, that you asked, who are the "little ones". In the current context, meaning what Zechariah was talking about, it would be about the inhabitants of Persian period Judea. Jesus' context would have been exactly who he was directly addressing as they made their way to the Mount of Olives.
So, "cherry picking", yes, since quoting the entire three line poem would have been out of place. He picked out the core part of the idea of the scattering (something the Judeans were all too familiar with after the Babylonian captivity).

I'm bumping this thread because this has come up in a conversation elsewhere and it would be good to bump this old thread for those folks to see it ... and for new folks to see it.

jhill76
The story of Adam and Eve, is one of the most accurate ones in the OT.

It's one of the most easily debunked.
Followed closely behind by Noahs Ark. Another easily debunked O.T. myth.

originally posted by: Akragon
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

look... im tired of arguing this issue... its obvious you people can't see that he was not God...

AND

That you can't read... As i've said FAR TOO MANY TIMES... THIS IS NOT A JESUS WAS GOD DEBATE!!!

Whatever though, believe what you want...

Jesus contradicts himself all over the place within your belief... On the other hand by simply reading what he said, there are no errors or contradictions...

And regardess your Jesus/Yahwah still has a God he prays to and worships...

It seems your belief is as flawed as your book...

so Good luck with that

Well said.....I think there's laziness coupled with fear and pride that stops Christians from seeing your point. You're quoting what Jesus said about himself and everyone else is busy trying to convince you that others know him better than him. For someone who's been convinced and deceived by Paul or any other person, they don't want to face the fact that they were presented with the fake Jesus. How sad!

If Jesus is God why would he pray to God saying not my will but yours be done?

"Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done." - Luke 22:42

Jesus is our brother (Matthew 12:50). God is The Parent "Our Father Which Art In Heaven" (Matthew 12:50),

And if we want to behave as Children of God The Highest, then we should be merciful and love our enemies because God is kind to the unthankful and evil:

"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful." - Luke 6:35