Gene Kranz's Remarkable Self Incriminating Gaffe, The Storied Ship, " Fraudulent Apollo 13 "

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Did you mean to make some connection between the deaths in Vietnam & the return of Apolo 13?

Yes I did.

So what is it, and what is hte actual evidence - preferably something that is not pure speculation and innuendo??

Are you too naive to understand that the President would use the Apollo program propaganda to manipulate the emotions of the American people? Nixon proved, with his Checkers speech, that he is a master of manipulation.

No I am not so naive as to believe manipulation does not exist.

But I am also not so gullible as to believe it happens just because you or someone else suspects it happened, and even less so when you do nothing but put up semingly unconnected "factoids" as if there were some connection and then fail to establish that connection.

My gullibility is then reduced to zero when you fail to answer the specific question "so what is the connection?" and instead put up further unconnected facts and start attacking me instead of discussing the history.

Your later claim to be a "pure historian" is debunked by this evidence that you favour innuendo and speculation.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


denver22 speaks part 2 on the benifits and costs: “Space exploration can also serve as a stimulus for children to enter the fields of science and engineering.”

Vernikos on the R.O.I. of space travel: “Economic, scientific and technological returns of space exploration have far exceeded the investment. … Royalties on NASA patents and licenses currently go directly to the U.S. Treasury, not back to NASA.”

Cowing on space expenditures relative to other costs: “Right now, all of America’s human space flight programs cost around $7 billion a year. That’s pennies per person per day. In 2006, according to the USDA, Americans spent more than $154 billion on alcohol. We spend around $10 billion a month in Iraq. And so on.”

dude

this obsession isn't healthy

even on a conspiracy board you are getting shot down

take up needle point

all the tangible physical evidence that can be examined by independent experts separate from NASA all point to the same conclusion : the apollo missions happened

all the hoaxers have is faulty logic and bad assumptions

needlepoint

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter



My arguments against your lack of knowledge sayonara regarding the benifits:

1. Space exploration will eventually allow us to establish a human civilization on another world (e.g., Mars) as a hedge against the type of catastrophe that wiped out the dinosaurs.
2. We explore space and create important new technologies to advance our economy. It is true that, for every dollar we spend on the space program, the U.S. economy receives about $8 of economic benefit. Space exploration can also serve as a stimulus for children to enter the fields of science and engineering.

www.freakonomics.com...

reply to post by denver22


I agree with everything you said there. However, the "400,000 fallacy" didn't walk on the moon. Only 12.

Each of these twelve men were selected by the puppet master in Washington D.c. Don't pretend to believe that Deke or Shep had anything to do Apollo crew selections, they didn't. Shepard is on the hook for this fact. We discovered it by looking at the Tv interview (his last) before he died.

I don't doubt that Deke may have made some of the earlier selections for the Gemini and Apollo but the "moon walkers" were specially selected by the puppet master. Do you have any suggestions about who that might be?

What was first the criteria for astronaut selection? Was it loyalty or test pilot ability or physical fitness?

My opinion is that loyalty came first.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Pay attention sayonara you may just learn something reading this.

At what cost? is it worth it well just read on sayonara and learn. Is there a price to inspiration and creativity? Economic, scientific and technological returns of space exploration have far exceeded the investment. Globally, 43 countries now have their own observing or communication satellites in Earth orbit. Observing Earth has provided G.P.S., meteorological forecasts, predictions and management of hurricanes and other natural disasters, and global monitoring of the environment, as well as surveillance and intelligence. Satellite communications have changed life and business practices with computer operations, cell phones, global banking, and TV. Studying humans living in the microgravity of space has expanded our understanding of osteoporosis and balance disorders, and has led to new treatments. Wealth-generating medical devices and instrumentation such as digital mammography and outpatient breast biopsy procedures and the application of telemedicine to emergency care are but a few of the social and economic benefits of manned exploration that we take for granted.

Space exploration is not a drain on the economy; it generates infinitely more than wealth than it spends. Royalties on NASA patents and licenses currently go directly to the U.S. Treasury, not back to NASA. I firmly believe that the Life Sciences Research Program would be self-supporting if permitted to receive the return on its investment. NASA has done so much with so little that it has generally been assumed to have had a huge budget. In fact, the 2007 NASA budget of $16.3 billion is a minute fraction of the $13 trillion total G.D.P.

Alan Shepard wanted Apollo 13. Washington said no. Washington picked the crews, not Slayton. Who was the real puppet master?

This is a make or break question for your side.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Where you gone sayonara, "come back' we need to talk about your claims of NASA
Not giving the public back anything, lmfao till sunday .

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Nasa has given now you must... So looks like moon believers win hands down again.
Your question about NASA not giving back is nothing short of a juvenile response, ignorant
of the facts about the beneifits of NASAs achievements for mankind.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

Alan Shepard wanted Apollo 13. Washington said no. Washington picked the crews, not Slayton. Who was the real puppet master?

This is a make or break question for your side.

I know for a FACT it was a guy named Horace Boomwattle, from Trenton New Jersey. Prove me wrong. This is a make or break for your side.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
Alan Shepard wanted Apollo 13. Washington said no. Washington picked the crews, not Slayton. Who was the real puppet master?

This is a make or break question for your side.

it is completely irrelevant to "our side" since, of course, it has nothing at all to do with whether the mission actually happened or not.



I guess you think it is "make or break" precisely because it is completely irrelevant?? that sems to be the only common link in your posts recently.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

 

Alan Shepard wanted Apollo 13. Washington said no. Washington picked the crews, not Slayton. Who was the real puppet master?

This is a make or break question for your side.

I know for a FACT it was a guy named Horace Boomwattle, from Trenton New Jersey. Prove me wrong. This is a make or break for your side.

Cite please, DJW, you know the rules. Who was the puppet master in Washington D.C. who gave the orders to Deke Slayton for the selection of the Apollo 13 & Apollo 14 crew?

Remember, in the video, Shepard told you it was somebody in Washington D.C.

That means Deke Slayton doesn't have the authority to select the "moon walkers".

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


washington approved the selection.. they didnt select it.. public relations stuff.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

Cite please, DJW, you know the rules. Who was the puppet master in Washington D.C. who gave the orders to Deke Slayton for the selection of the Apollo 13 & Apollo 14 crew?

I just told you. Prove me wrong. Hey! Where's decisively? Did he get post banned again?

Exact same topic being discussed in 2 different current threads?

Looks like we need some moderation here.

However, as I said in the other thread where you asked the same question: NASA Management.

Deke's job was to recommend, which he did. NASA disagreed with his recommendations of Shepard's crew because he had surgery for his inner ear and felt there was not enough training to be ready for 13.

Lovell's crew had been slated for 14, and NASA felt that his crew would be better prepared for 13. So they switched the crews. Lovell's crew for 13 and Shepard's crew, which would have more time to train now, went on 14.

Deke was a civilian working for NASA during this time. He didn't have the final say so. NASA did. They went with his recommendations before, but disagreed with him on Apollo 13, and they (NASA) had the final say so about it. Not Deke.

So what do we see here? The same thing we see in the real world even today: someone makes recommendations. Management can either agree, or disagree.

Exactly what is this suppose to prove? NASA disagreed with Deke on the Apollo 13 crew recommendation, so there for the entire Apollo program and moon landings were a hoax?

I think you guys need to go back to "Shadows aren't right in this photograph.", at least with the pictures you all had actual physical evidence you could show and argue over. Not some CIA is hiding behind every tree thing.

reply to post by syrinx high priest

The German Measles, Quite a Problem for these Boys, No ?

Not getting your point. I don't believe anyone has managed to drum up anything that remotely constitutes a reasonable defense of my attack on NASA malingerers Charlie Duke and Ken Mattingly.

Did you know syrinx high priest that Mattingly and Duke were supposed to have been antibody tested for rubella long before that shameful charade of a fake illness of Duke's in April of 1970 ? and not just tested once, but over and over ? Betcha' didn't know that now DID YA' ?

I would advise that you would do well not to attempt bluffing me.

Rather a silly ploy, especially at this stage.

You should take my points very seriously. I know Ken Mattingly does. Ken Mattingly takes the point that I just made about the antibody testing very seriously. Do you know why syrinx high priest ?

Do you know where that came from, my knowing about how the astronauts were supposed to be rubella tested up front, and tested for rubella and other virus antibody positivity/negativity in an ongoing fashion, and if that was the case, the NASA flight surgeons would have known long before April 1970 that Ken Mattingly was antibody negative and would have vaccinated him ?

Well now, there was a big conference at Woods Hole in 1969, a big conference where all of the recommendations for Apollo were made by physicians, highly regarded medical personnel, recommendations made with respect to infectious disease preventative measures, things like antibody testing everybody for rubella right when they become astronauts, and then ongoing testing regularly thereafter, testing them regularly and well before the 11th hour, well before taking off for the moon. .

I'll post a big knarly heinous anxiety producer for the ain'tstronauts, post a big detailed thing on the Woods Hole Conference so as to give Mattingly a big knarly ulcer and keep that dim wit awake all night for the next 5 months after he learns of the contents of my knarly anxiety producing special. Mattingly's stomach is gonna' look like a piece of Swiss cheese only a day or so after he realizes how much I know about his silly antics, his malingering, when he learns I have a copy of the Woods Hole Conference summaries, findings, recommendations, when dim wit Mattingly learns that I know even fatso Charles Berry was there at the conference at Woods Hole, or at least advising the conference panel members if he was too fat to waddle over there himself, you know, the conference where they made the basic recommendations for PERP Berry to work with . It was advised that the Apollo flight surgeons check the ain'tstronauts for rubella virus well before a phony space mission. though of course the doctors making these recommendations did not know the missions were phony. But PERP Berry did, didn't he now ?

See I read their stuff, their OWN DOCTOR STUFF, and I know that Apollo is fake cuz' their medicine is bad. They were supposed to test Duke and Mattingly for Rubella long before April 1970.;

If you hear snoring, be advised, it is not Charlie Duke, nor Ken Mattingly. They will be insomnic for the next 5 months, up all night and forever more, this nonsense inevitably leaking back to them. Such an ain'tstronaut sleep architecture changer, the ain'tstronauts' becoming aware of how much we know about their phony measles thing, and all based on their own reporting of things, not to mention the Woods Hole Conference stuff too,.

So like I said, you would be well advised to not bluff me. I would suggest you find a doctor and have him/her read the Woods Hole thing and then get back to us and tell us why Mattingly and Duke were not tested for rubella antibody until April 1970 ???????????????

Sorry but , THIS THING IS WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY fake fake fakE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by decisively

Not getting your point. I don't believe anyone has managed to drum up anything that remotely constitutes a reasonable defense of my attack on NASA malingerers Charlie Duke and Ken Mattingly.

dont really need to read further than this point..

its obvious that you have no clue what you are talking about as shown in this post here

Originally posted by decisively
reply to post by Gibborium

 

Presentation of rubella in adult male astronauts

Do NOT I repeat DO NOT quote me on this, as it has been a while since I dabbled in this field, had any patient contact. That said, as regards the presentation of rubella in young adult males , I believe the classic exanthem is followed by hematochezia, and subsequently, acute on subacute salvoitic eclampsia .

Like I said, don't quote me on that though.

edit on 15-6-2012 by decisively because: Comma

by saying that an adult male astronaut will have eclampsia (convulsions in a pregnant woman) proves that you have no idea in this field.. i may as well be talking to a cat..

Originally posted by eriktheawfulDeke was a civilian working for NASA during this time. He didn't have the final say so. NASA did. They went with his recommendations before, but disagreed with him on Apollo 13, and they (NASA) had the final say so about it. Not Deke.

Who is "they (NASA)" that you are referring to? I'm interested in the names. Why don't you know who it was?

www.c-spanvideo.org...

Fast forward the video to the relevant part, about 36:00.

Shepard: When NASA finally said I could fly again I went to Deke…

Shepard tries to pull strings with Deke Slayton to be the Apollo 13 CDR
with Stu Roose CMP and Ed Mitchell LMP.

Shepard: Deke said i don't know let's try it out so we sent it to washington …
and they said no, no way.

Shepard: ...it's a real public relations problem ….
here this guy had just gotten ungrounded and all the sudden
boom he gets premiere flight assignment
ok discussion went on for several days and finally
they said ok we'll make a deal
we'll let shepard have Apollo 14
give us another crew for Apollo 13
and that's what happened.

Who is the Puppet Master in Washington D.c.? they said ok we'll make a deal

Deke the C I A station chief makes the astronaut "suggestion" that is "submitted" to Washington, "them (NASA)" a group of propaganda ministers reviews it, and, if it comes back stamped "OK" then Deke announces that he has made the final decision of astronaut "selection".

Fraud.

What else was in the deal?
Maybe a million dollars?
Names. Gotta have some names.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

Deke the C I A station chief makes the astronaut "suggestion" that is "submitted" to Washington, "them (NASA)" a group of propaganda ministers reviews it, and, if it comes back stamped "OK" then Deke announces that he has made the final decision of astronaut "selection".

Fraud.

What else was in the deal?
Maybe a million dollars?
Names. Gotta have some names.

I try to be a pure historian, I have no loyalty to any ideas or any final outcomes. Since I am not dedicated to either side in the Apollo discussion I am free to take what ever position necessary to elicit the truest narratives from the widest base of consensus, in this case, ATS.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

nah no loyalty to any ideas or any final outcomes..

you used quotations marks to try to substantiate your claims of fraud...........

its just a selection process.. public relations issues.. be quite irresponsible for NASA to send up an under prepared astronaut when there were others who were well prepared, especially should something go wrong..