Gene Kranz's Remarkable Self Incriminating Gaffe, The Storied Ship, " Fraudulent Apollo 13 "

Of all the individual Apollo Missions to study, the Apollo 13 Mission offers the serious student/historian of the Apollo fraud the greatest range of PERPETRATOR GAFFES to first mine, and then to present for public attention/review. These include;

1) It can easily be demonstrated, simply by his ever loving presence in the MOCR, that Ken Mattingly was never at risk to come down with the German Measles as the bogus Apollo 13 script claims.

2) The Cortright Commission, the investigative body that sought to determine how it was that the Apollo 13 ship was damaged, made the claim that 1.1 pounds of Teflon burned in O2 tank number 2. This burning of Teflon, and/or the burning of aluminum, was the fuel that provided the requisite energy to blow the tank. However, when one reads the relevant scientific publications of the commission, induing and especially the appendix dedicated to documenting the details of experiments done in support of the commission's conclusions, no where does one find any experimental support for the claim that all 1.1 pounds of Teflon originally placed in the tank as wire insulation was available for combustion after that tank had been heated for an extended period of time to 1000 degrees F. Also, there is no experimental evidence providing support for the claim that aluminum burned. What was the aluminum ? Where ? How much ? Why did the aluminum burn ? More specifically what were the detailed forensics as regards the commission's claims about aluminum ?

As such experimental support was never provided, one may incontrovertibly conclude that the Cortright Commision was a sham commission, as were its results. The commission's report provided no experimental evidence to support the most important features of their claims about the Apollo 13 disaster's at root cause, the burning of 1.1 pounds of Teflon, and or an undisclosed amount of aluminum. Here it is important to emphasize, the objection is not to the claim that Teflon can burn, or that some Teflon was available for combustion under the circumstances so described, the objection is to the commissions's having failed to provide evidence that there was fuel sufficient, 1.1 pounds of Teflon, and so energy sufficient to blow the tank.

3) John Aaron claimed that when he was called at home, he was able to do what the on site EECOM's, Sy Leibergot and Clint Black, were not able to do, that is, determine very early on, based on the available EECOM data , this data having nothing more done to it than being READ TO AARON OVER THE PHONE, that the problems being dealt with in Houston by the Flight Officers working the Apollo 13 mission at the time of the explosion were due to primarily major hardware malfunctions/difficulties and were not simply instrumentational. Once again, we find Aaron so smart, too smart. His intelligence is no intelligence at all, but rather, is a demonstration of fraud scenario foreknowledge. As such, Aaron is identified, based on this alone, as an Apollo fraud perpetrator.

4) John Young claimed to be present at the time of the explosion, and like Aaron, Young claims his viewing of the early EECOM data lead him to conclude that Apollo 13's difficulties were not instrumentational, but were rather, hardware based. What does John Young know about interpreting EECOM data ? NOTHING ! Additionally, Sy Leibergot has directly challenged young publicly on this point, both by way of clearly stating that Young was not present in Mission Control at the time, and publicly showing a photo documenting John Aaron's non presence.

This is the first and only occasion of which I am aware that such a challenge as Young's has been publicly addressed by the likes of a person of such stature as that of EECOM SY LEIBERGOT, THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT MISSION CONTROL/HOUSTON BASED APOLLO 13 MISSION WORKER, BAR NONE NONE NONE, DURING THE FIRST HOUR OF THE STAGED DRAMA. Keep in mind that Leibergot is not suggesting Young is a fraud perpetrator, or that Apollo was/is fraudulent. He very much IS IS IS claiming however, and very strongly so , that John Young was/is misleading the public with regard to this important point. See the video video; "John Young and Sy Leibergot, TWO VERSIONS, ONE REALITY, FRAUD !!!!!" for details.



5) Last but not least, Gene Kranz caught with his ever loving pants down big time. Kranz claims that 14/15 minutes into the staged drama , from the time of Lovell's reporting that "something" was venting, he, Kranz, knew that not only was there an O2 tank explosion that was responsible for all of this, something that his EECOMs were a long way, perhaps HOURS from doing, even in a preliminary sense, but Kranz also claims that at that time he was aware that the LM may have had to serve in the capacity of "lifeboat" . 15 minutes in, LM as lifeboat per Kranz. All this before it was determined there were significant hardware and not primarily instrumentation problems to begin with. Kranz's coming up with this claim references a time well before the LM was even checked out as not being responsible for the problem to begin with, before the LM was even excluded as having been involved at some root level in some significant way in all of this funny business, such as excluding its having been holed by a small meteor, and being holed by a meteor was a legitimate concern given the fraudulent scenario as presented to the flight officers working the problem.

Listen carefully in the video below as Kranz hits the panic button, pulls the ABORT HANDLE, and changes subjects faster than two shakes of a space monkey's tale upon his being surprisingly and effectively challenged by a well meaning, exceedingly naive, though intelligent, obviously quite intelligent, producer/editor in the COMMENTARY VERSION OF THE HISTORY CHANNEL FILM;

THE RACE TO THE MOON/ FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION as regards these facts. The producer/editor having stumbled upon them, but not being quite capable enough, meaning not at all suspicious, and so never in a position to think through the ominous implications of this nice piece of a sort of "blind investigative journalism".



The video above is an excerpt from the History Channel Production, THE RACE TO THE MOON aka FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION. This is a "documentary" based on Kranz's book of the same(latter) title.

Here, one find's a bit of the film's introductory segment. The film then jumps better than an hour forward to the segment of concern.

The excerpts of relevance begin one hour, fifteen minutes, and thirty some odd seconds into the COMMENTARY VERSION OF FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION/THE RACE TO THE MOON . In the clip above, this segment of concern is found correspondingly four minutes in. We hear three voices, those of Kranz and two of the producers/editors.

The producers/editors begin by stating that they had the occasion to listen to the Apollo 13 Flight Director's loop tapes. Hearing the drama play out this way gave them a real sense for the tension packed SOUND of the moment. And indeed, next to Apollo 11's/Armstrong's insanely bogus "ONE SMALL STEP LINE", Apollo 13's "HOUSTON WE'VE HAD A PROLEM LINE" is the staged manned landing program folly's most "famous" audible.

Gene Kranz's Remarkable Self Incriminating Gaffe and The True Tale of the Storied Ship, "Fraudulent Apollo 13", PART TWO

Four minutes into the clip above, one hears Kranz recount the occurrence of what I like to call his "RAH RAH RAH GO MISSION CONTROL SPEECH". It is the "speech" Kranz made to his troops which includes the astonishingly odd reference too the fact that they could use the "LM as a lifeboat". In the RAH RAH RAH SPEECH, Kranz does not use the term "lifeboat" explicitly. But he does say, "we've got the LM", in reference to that capacity. Kranz's makes the RAH RAH RAH GO MISSION CONTROL SPEECH, only 15 minutes into the drama, only 15 minutes from the time of the alleged explosion. One minute prior, Lovell did make the comment that they were venting "something", but no one knew at that time that the something was oxygen. There was nitrogen, water, helium, hydrogen, mixtures of the same, that could have been venting. Lovell did not say it was oxygen at that early point in the drama. Indeed, if he had, he would have tipped his hand and let us all know that he had foreknowledge, was in on the fraud , the Apollo scam. As it turns out, it was/is Kranz that tipped/tips the fraud insiders' collective hand and so let's us all know this bogus Apollo thing could not be any more full on embarrassingly ever so NOT RED WHITE AND BLUE. These dips trying to pass themselves as patriots makes me want to puke in Neil Armstrong's lap. Back to my points.

So Kranz gives the RAH RAH RAH speech and refers to using the "LM as a lifeboat", BEFORE THEY EVEN KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, OR HOW SERIOUS IT MAY BE, BEFORE THEY EVEN KNOW IF THE LM IS INTACT. WHAT IF THE LM ITSELF WAS DAMAGED BY WHATEVER DID THIS ? THEY DID NOT KNOW THAT 14/15 MINUTES INTO THE STAGED DRAMA, BEFORE THEY EVEN KNEW THAT THERE WAS AN "EXPLOSION" THAT CAUSED THIS.

So we learn simply from this that the Apollo 13 mission was STAGED and that Kranz was privy to its staging. Gene Kranz is an Apollo fraud insider, having demonstrated by his PREMATURE RAH RAH RAH GO MISSION CONTROL SPEECH foreknowledge of the oxygen tank rupture and plans for the LM to be used s a lifeboat as part of the fraudulent scheme's plot/scenario.

Before moving on, please note the presence of Ken Mattingly in these clips. Mattingly was alleged to have been exposed to Charlie Duke who was alleged to have come down with the German Measles. Mattingly, said to have been rubella virus antibody negative, was as such grounded, and Swigert took his place. German Measles is not the worst thing to have, then again, one would not want to be exposing the Mission Control Crew/Staff willy nilly to risk of infection. What is Mattingly doing in Mission Control if he has been grounded for his Geman Measles AT RISK status ? He could pass it to another antibody negative coworker. This is flat out bogus. The whole German Measles business is a full on CROCK OF JIVE. All of Apollo, all of it, Missions 7 through 17 can be proven to be fraudulent simply on these grounds, the phony Mattingly German Measles illness grounds.

Gene Kranz's Remarkable Self Incriminating Gaffe and The True Tale of the Storied Ship, "Fraudulent Apollo 13 " PART THREE

Now to the meat of our video. 5 minutes and 20 seconds into the clip above, one of the film's editor/producer types is heard making a great analogy, that in his mind the Mission Control thing can be likened to the astronauts being in a car, and mission control, having access to an instrument panel replica only, is trying to figure out in detail what exactly is going on in the capsule, with the ship, in all senses, just from simply looking at the instrument panel replica. No sounds, no sensations to guide/help the crew in Houston. The editor/producer makes the comment that the Mission Control staff had to "GUESS" about this, that , or the other thing, having only a "replica" of the instrument panel to help them diagnose problems. He then goes on to say, and this is one big fat BOMB that this guy drops on Kranz, that in his/their listening to the Flight Director loop tapes, they were able to make the determination , as was I from listening to Sy Leibergot's EECOM loop tape THAT THEY DID NOT EVEN KNOW THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION EARLY ON. Hearing Lovell say that something was venting 14 minutes in does not give Kranz logical license to conclude that there was an explosion of any kind, let alone make a claim that at that time, only 14/15 minutes in, that he knew it was an O2 tank explosion which was responsible for the ship's alleged damage. Hearing Lovell say 14/15 minutes into the staged drama that something was venting does not give Kranz logical license to go off and deliver his RAH RAH RAH GO MISSION CONTROL SPEECH which included a comment about using the "LM as a lifeboat". First of all, simply because the LM had not even been checked out then. What if the damage was LM based to begin with ? Secondly, and of equal importance, the fight officers, EECOM Sy Leibergot and the others primarily involved, THOSE KNOWING A GREAT DEAL MORE THAN KRANZ ABOUT THE RELEVANT ISSUES, THEY DID NOT EVEN KNOW 14/15 MINUTES IN THAT THIS WHOLE THING WASN'T AN INSTRUMENTATION PROBLEM. BECAUSE SOMETHING WAS VENTING, DID NOT MEAN THAT THE PROBLEM WAS NOT PRIMARILY INSTRUMENTATIONAL, OR INSTRUMENTATION BASED TO A SIGNIFICANT DEGREE.

SO KRANZ SPOKE WAY WAY WAY TOO SOON. By giving the RAH RAH RAH GO MISSION CONTROL SPEECH 15 minutes into the staged drama, and only one minute after Lovell makes the generic comment that something was venting, generic because as of then, the substance had not been identified, and the root cause of its venting, the alleged O2 tank explosion, had not been determined to be the event so responsible.

AT 5:42 LISTEN CAREFULLY AS KRANZ, IN RESPONSE TO THE POINTED EDITOR/PRODUCER COMMENT THAT AT THIS TIME, SO EARLY INTO THE DRAMA THE MISSION CONTROL TEAM DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION, SAYS AND I QUOTE;



KRANZ


"IT(the explosion) WASN'T CLEAR INITIALLY BUT IT BECAME CLEAR PRETTY QUICK WHEN JIM SAID THAT THEY'RE VENTING SOMETHING".






CAUGHT WIITH HIS PANTS DOWN HERE BIG TIME, AS THERE COULD ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY BE NO CONNECTION MADE IN THE REAL-TIME CONTEXT OF THE MISSION CONTROL DRAMA BETWEEN LOVELL'S STATEMENT ABOUT SOMETHING AT THAT TIME GENERICALLY VENTING, AND THE DETAILS REGARDING THE ROOT CAUSE/ETIOLOGY OF THAT VENTING, BE IT EXPLOSION OR WHATEVER, KRANZ CHANGES THE SUBJECT IMMEDIATELY.

NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE NOTIVE AND NOTICE SOME MORE MORE MORE AND MORE, HOW KRANZ UPON BEING SLAMED WITH THIS HAYMAKER GETS THE HECK OUTTA' DODGE AND CHANGES THE SUBJECT FASTER THAN A PHONY MOON LANDER ASCENDS FROM A BOGUSLY FABRICATED SIMULATED LUNAR SURFACE.

This remarkable History Channel video commentary version finding is one of the most sensational findings in the entire history of Apollo. This segment provides incontrovertible evidence that Gene Kranz of all people was a major player, a principal Apollo fraud perpetrator. The Apollo 13 mission is of course shown here to be fraudulent, and with it, all of the Apollo missions are incontrovertibly demonstrated fraudulent as well.

Amazing it all is, and very much irrefutably so.

So let's see if I get this right - it's a video made decades after the event, by the history Channel that well known paragon of perfect truth, and it doesn't tie up with what was reported at the time, and that is proof positive of.....er....something other than that the History Channel is the History Channel??

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

This bogus tale of Kranz's is a consistent telling of his as you shall see and hear, right from the mouth of the man who looks into the eyes of nothing more than PAPER TIGERS….

It's Gene Kranz's film. I'll post on youtube soon the introduction to the film in which KRANZ TALKS ABOUT ALL THE CONTROL HE EXERCISED WITH RESPECT TO THIS FILM'S CONTENT.

And the film per se aside, this is a position Kranz has maintained since day one, that he knew it was crunch time from the moment Lovell described the venting. From the moment Lovell reported venting, Kranz's claim has consistently been, that he knew there was an explosion and that the LM would be needed.

As we expose the Apollo charade by way of these themes, the Apollo 13 themes as outlined briefly above, you may well find yourself startled by Kranz's consistency with this claim over the years, that he knew of the explosion and the need for the LM so early on, 14/15 minutes in. The problem was/is, once KRANZ gave the RAH RAH RAH SPEECH to the troops in MISSION CONTROL prematurely, HE HAD TO EMPLOY THIS DEFENSE OF THAT SPEECH. What was he going to say, " I thought it might be fun for them to have had a picnic in the LM ?" No, he had to connect the EXPLOSION with his comment about their having the LM as a safety net.

I could have introduced this topic by way of literally a dozen different references, many of which you will see here, many by Kranz himself, quotes, his own writing, all supporting this same point of KRANZ HAVING HAD FOREKNOWLEDGE OF THE APOLLO 13 ADVENTURE SCENARIO'S DETAILS, AND THAT DETAILED FOREKNOWLEDGE BEING DEMONSTRATED BY WAY OF HIS CLAIMS WAY TOO PREMATURELY THAT HE KNEW THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION, AND THAT AS SUCH, THE LM MIGHT NEED TO BE EMPLOYED IN ITS, EVEN THEN SOMEWHAT WELL REHEARSED, LIFEBOAT CAPACITY.

I selected the History Cannel film, and again this is KRANZ's film with his stating very clearly and the producers/editors chiming in supporting the claim, that Kranz had major maor major say, because of this particular example's nice feature of showing Kranz to be blindsided by this very fine observation and then running scared with his PANICKED changing of the subject.

Depending on how motivated I am, you may see as many as a half a dozen video posts from me featuring Kranz interviews where he says this very same thing over and over and over.

If you think you are going to counter this by putting down this particular history channel production, you are in for the surprise of your life. This all comes from Kranz, and the man who looks into the eyes of nothing more than PAPER TIGERS says it again and again and again. Tells the same lie over and over and over.

This is a big one. I honestly hope you are not a big believer in the official story, as this one of all the Apollo PERP identity revelations is a particularly terrible/difficult one to countenance, even for me, KRANZ HIMSELF.

That said, countenance we must, It is plain as day .

Gene plays only with paper tigers, nothing more.

reply to post by decisively


Right - I was just checking.

Because of course the timeline of the missionhas the crew identifying a "large bang" 13 minutes before they mention any venting (55:55.49 vs 56:09:07) - which seems a reasonable time to conclude something has exploded, if not necessarily exactly what.

In the Mission report (9mb pdf) Kranz says that 56+14 was the first time he "considered we were probably in a survival situation" and that he LM might be a lifeboat - ie jsut after the venting was reported.

things then moved rapidly - there is no actual mention of an "explosion" in the mission report around this time that I can see - the actual observeable problems with the craft are listed - O2 tank pressures, etc (pages III-14 & 15), and between 59 and 60 hrs they are already taking stock of consumables required for the return flight.

How does this tie in with the dramatic depicion in het video for timing?

It's quite obvious that decisively has never been in a emergency situation were every second and minute may count.

An indication of venting is serious. VERY serious. It could be equipment malfunction that is reporting that venting, it could be not understanding what you are seeing, or it could actually be happening.

The instruments are there for a reason: to tell you what is going on. The only time you would second guess what they are telling you is if other indications are not stacking up with the other readings. You train your astronauts to be observant and report what they are seeing.

Given a possible life or death situation (venting in a space ship is a long ways from Earth would be a very good example of that), the first and foremost thought is the safety of the crew.

"Assume the worst. Hope for the best."

The worst was that they were venting. The best is that it was a malfunction of the equipment that was indicating that.

Ask any sailor in the navy what happens if fire alarm indicators go off. Do they assume it's equipment failure?

Hell no.

We treated it as the real thing. Always.
If the alarms don't go off, but a shipmate reports fire and smoke, we treat it also like the alarm DID go off.

Ask any pilot what they do if they see indications of a problem. Assume it's the equipment reporting wrong?
What if the equipment doesn't indicate there is an issue, yet he can plainly see his port engine is on FIRE.

Do you take action to ensure the safety of your craft, crew and passengers? Yes if you see it. If you don't see it, let the ground techs figure out if it was really a problem or not.

Kids in school hear the fire alarm go off. Do they continue to sit there?
No.
They do what they practice for: exit the school. If the fire alarm was faulty, that will come out later.

It's quite obvious that decisively is not very connected with the world, nor understands why things work they way they do. Let's hope if the fire alarm every goes off in a building he's in, people around him will pull him to safety.

He also loves to twist things around. In the 2nd video that he posted, Kranz says:

"No, it wasn't clear initially, but it became pretty clear quick when Jim said they were venting something."

Listen to the interviewer just prior to Kranz saying that. He's commenting on the equipment used by the controllers on the ground.

Kranz didn't change the subject....as decisively would have you believe. He was still on the subject.

But considering he has posted fraudulent information before and has lied, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone bothering to read his posts.

As far as determining if it was an explosion or not: All indications, including the venting, would pretty much narrow down what may have happened: an impact with something (space junk, micro-asteroid, etc), or something burst out (something internally exploded outward).

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

The particular flavor of the lie told about "the Apollo 13 bang" varies, depending the lie's author(Lovell, Haies, Swigert) and the circumstances of the telling.

For example, Stephen Cass wrote a pretty nice little piece about Apollo 13. FOOTPRINTS IN THE DUST, THE EPIC VOYAGES OF APOLLO, 1969-1975(University of Nebraska Press, 2010) is a Colin Burgess edited collection of well written chapters, each by a different author, and each with a dedicated telling of one particular Apollo Mission story. Cass wrote the book's Chapter 4, HOUSTON, WE HAVE A SOLUTION.

On page 120, we find Cass quoting Lovell;

"there was a dull but definite bang----not much of a vibration though...just a noise."

"Dull but definite bang", doesn't sound like a "large bang" to me.

At some point I may post a bunch of video clips I have collected over the last year featuring Lovell telling his dumb story about Apollo 13. In each of these video clips I have saved for posterity, one hears Lovell pitch a description of the noise in question. Suffice it to say, Lovell is not consistent with his story, with his description of the noise, as I just proved right here with Cass' quote of Lovell from Chapter 4 of the FOOTPRINTS IN THE DUST book.

Not to make too big deal out of it, but it obviously is not something that would be misremembered. To say a bang is "dull" vs "large" is to say two different things. The fact that Lovell is consistently inconsistent is proof of his lying. But we already knew this maven of con pitched heiny jive with the best of 'em, hence his being awarded captainship of the storied ship, FRAUDULENT APOLLO 13, not to mention his getting to collect royalties on a phony Apollo 13 story that my mom paid to have written, the gal be a hard working bookkeeper back in the 1960s.

Another point about the phony bang, everything on board was recorded. So, if such was the case, WHERE'S THE LOUD BANG ? WHY DON'T THEY EVER PLAY IT FOR US ? I never heard it, and as I haven't heard it , I assume neither did Lovell, pretty straightforward, No ?

Originally posted by decisively
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Not to make too big deal out of it, but it obviously is not something that would be misremembered. To say a bang is "dull" vs "large" is to say two different things.

Indeed - they can be quite independant IMO - it can be dull and loud, or dull and quiet - I see no problem at all with the 2 descriptions.

It is only your interpretation that they contradict each other.

AFAIK the onboard voice recorders weer active for "much" of each mission - not all of them. You can see photos of the Data Storage Equipment here - apparently it could record 4 hours worth of audio, which is only a fraction of the length of a mission.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Al, really neat site. How does a guy collect stuff like that? LOL, I thought I had some weird collections.

Looking at these parts really brings home the fact that a functioning rocket, CM, and LM were built and flown to the Moon! You my man, get a star. I don't hand them out too often,

A recommendation for you.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Aloysius the Gaul, I would respectfully suggest to you that you listen to the actual EECOM and Fight Director's loop tapes if you can lay your hands on them.

See if you can lay your hands on the EECOM loop tape, a copy of which is included in Sy Leibergot's marvelous book, APOLLO EECOM, JOURNEY OF A LIFETIME. This I believe will help you with perspective. If you don't have a copy, can't lay hands on as such, look for my upcoming posting here at ATS with a link. I'll upload a copy so you can hear them, the Leibergot relevant Apollo 13 EECOM tapes. Also, Leibergot's book CD EECOM tapes/recordings feature the Clint Black working with Glynn Lunney segments as well, outstanding, nothing less than a revelation in terms of allowing one to make up his/her own mind about this.

Listening to this, you hear NOTHING ABOUT EXPLOSIONS, NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING. AND KEEP IN MIND, WHEN NASA GAVE A MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT PRESS CONFERENCE, THEY SAID IT COULD BE ANYTHING ANYTHING ANYTHING, EVEN A METEOR HIT. NO ONE HAD A CLUE AS TO WHAT WAS GOING ON.

So back to the EECOM loop tapes. You'll hear the flight officers, Leibergot, Kranz and so forth. 14 minutes in, when Lovell makes his generic venting comment, they are still wondering if the problem may not be instrumentational. Keep in mind, just because something is venting, that does not mean that the at root problem is not primarily instrumentational. It very well might be. So Leibergot did not know that an O2 tank blew, and that remained the case. Clint Black, the next shift's EECOM, didn't come to the conclusion that a tank blew either. By the way, Black was right at Leibergot's side during the last hour of Sy Leibergot's fateful shift, and as you can HEAR WITH YOUR OWN EARS, DURING THE NEXT HOUR, WITH BLACK THEN AS THE EECOM, NO ONE WAS SAYING THERE WAS AN O2 TANK EXPLOSION.

The producer/editor of the Kranz Film above said the same thing, that when he listened to the Flight Director's loop tapes, it was his observation as well, that there was absolutely no clue whatsoever that an explosion had caused this.

Where you hear "EXPLOSION", this is all after the fact stuff. In the real-time world of the scramble to figure out what had happened to the ship, there was absolutely no certainty whatsoever, NONE. I believe I have a nice copy of the Apollo 13 middle of the night press conference given by McDivitt I believe, Kraft and another PERP. You can hear them tell the world no one knew what was going on for yourself.

The problem was/is for Kranz that he gave the talk encouraging everyone to settle down way too early. The talk included Kranz's referencing their using the LM. But if you listen to the EECOM loop tapes, or Flight Director loop tapes, you don't get the impression there at 14/15 minutes in there is any huge crisis going on. "Why did Kranz mention the LM ?" , an astute listener would think to himself/herself ? Kranz is obviously and painfully more aware of this fact than anyone, that he botched it here, and you can actually hear him allude to this being a problem for him in some video footage/clips. By alluding to it as a problem I mean acknowledging that it might strike some as early, the content of his speech premature. I may post some of that material as well if the group here at ATS is sufficiently interested. Like I've said, I'd rather be riding my bike, but if it helps you understand the fraud, I am more than happy to help others come to terms with this reality given my access to a year's worth of study and material collection on the part of a half dozen docs here in San Francisco.

My suggestion, listen to the EECOM tapes and read the voice transcript. Then looking at what has been said 14/15 minutes in on the voice transcript and what you can hear 15 minutes into Sy Leibergot's EECOM loop tape, ask yourself, "Is it reasonable for Kranz to make the claim that he knew the O2 tank had blown here IN REAL TIME, and is it reasonable for Kranz to make the claim that 14/15 minutes in he knew the LM might need to be used in a "lifeboat" capacity ????" In all likelihood, your answer will be more than a resounding NO !!!! NO !!! NO !!!!.

I will also be posting examples of book based material and other material showing how it was, and is, that the mention of the LM as made by Kranz in that speech to the Mission Control staff 15 minutes into the drama is TYPICALLY LEFT OUT. Not in every case, but the cases where one does finds it are rare. Indeed, it is a fascinating subject unto itself that will merit and will receive a dedicated and detailed post. In the vast majority of cases when the Kranz speech is quoted and the chronology of presentation is roughly accurate, and as such, the quote is located in the telling of the story at 14/15 minutes into the fraudulent scenario, SPECIFIC REFERENCE TO THE LM IS LEFT OUT. That part of the quote is deleted by "dot dot dot" ...., and in this way the reader never even has the opportunity to put this together, that Kranz was WAY WAY WAY AHEAD OF HIS OWN SCRIPT.

So what are you saying?

That someone flipped a switch and made an explosion, or there was no explosion?

Sorry guy this is the internet age. I have a hard time believing anything that is on the net.

Are you absolutely positive that the recordings that you heard are untouched thoughout the decades? How can you be sure?

It is a pretty bold claim to call the man a liar.

You do know typing in all caps doesnt make your point any more valid dont you?

Im with everyone else so far that has posted in response....

Clear knowledge or at least an understanding of emergency situations should probably take precedence over your bias.....

That would be assuming you were being objective........which doesnt seem to be the case.......

Doesnt seem to be much more needed to refute the rest of the posting....pages upon pages of reposting long winded explanations wont change that fact...

reply to post by decisively


There is nothing about "explosions" on the transcripts for the flight at all - I already noted that. Later paraphrasing is irrelevant.

reply to post by liejunkie01


These recordings are public documents/records. They belong to us all, WE THE PEOPLE. They are not NASA's private property. They are not confidential. They are for all eyes to see and all ears to hear, just like the moonscape shoots.

The Leibergot recordings, those on the book CD, came from Leibergot's personal collection. If you compare what you hear in the Leibergot tapes with anything else, even audio clips from films like the History Channel film, they always match up, perfectly. The voices, sounds, sequence, never had any occasion to believe someone messed with the tapes, and my friends and I listen to EVERYTHING, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER........ AND THEN....... OVER AGAIN.

No one would be foolish enough to tamper with this stuff, the actual loop tapes, the originals. Say NASA futzed with their master tape, Leibergot, Clint Black, a bunch of other guys have their own copies. Now someone listens to a NASA version and it doesn't agree with a fight officer's personal copy ? Not that dumb these guys. don't get me wrong, they are plenty dumb, but just not quite that dumb.

Wish they were of course, that dumb, but a first rule of thumb for this type of activity is NOT to do that sort of thing, tamper with source material, cuz' a dude like Leibergot, just may have a copy, which he did.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


The point is that after the Apollo 13 mission, Kranz has always claimed he knew the explosion occurred there, at that moment, 14 minutes in, when Lovell said something was venting. The only thing this has to do with the Apollo 13 Voice Transcript is that Lovell's comment is so recorded there in that document. What my point number 5 of this thread is about is Kranz's claims that he knew there was an O2 tank explosion 14/15 minutes in based on Lovell's own claim of having witnessed venting. Kranz is not logically, materially, or otherwise, entitled to make this claim, and as such, this claim proves both Apollo fraudulent and Kranz an insider.

Another way to say this. See if you can find one example where Gene Kranz makes some other claim. You will not find it. In EVERY CASE WHERE GENE KRANZ DISCUSSES THIS ISSUE , HE CLAIMS HE KNEW THE O2 TANK EXPLODED, MORE OR LESS COINCIDENT WITH LOVELL'S REPORT OF SOMETHING VENTING, AND INDEED IT IS THIS VENTING THAT KRANZ LINKS TO THE EXPLOSION HE CLAIMS TO HAVE RECOGNIZED AS HAVING OCCURRED, EVEN THOUGH NO ONE ELSE DID.

I'll cover the equivalent/relevant material from Kranz's book in my next post. That will help you.

Try this; go to YouTube and search "Gene Kranz, Apollo 13", something like that. You know what I am getting at. Dig up all the relevant Kranz interviews you can lay your eyes on. Then look at all of this video material you have unearthed on the subject. Look only at the stuff that features Kranz himself so commenting. See what he says first. What does Kranz tell you about when he knew the O2 tank blew and why he knew it blew then ? In each case, when Kranz is specific enough to provide the relevant details, you will hear Kranz claim that he knew the tank blew at this time, 14 minutes in, when Lovell reported the generic venting. Indeed, his claim is that because of this Lovell venting report, he knew the tank blew right then, at the very time of Lovell's report. As this cannot be true, Gene Kranz must be lying, and BIG BIG BIG BIG FAT TIME. Not only is he lying, but he is in this astonishing light confirmed to be a fraud perpetrator, and with that, all of Apollo is proven fraudulent.

The head flight director cannot possibly be a fraudster and still have these missions be viewed as legit. This one issue, demonstrates Apollo's fraudulence incontrovertibly.

2) The Cortright Commission, the investigative body that sought to determine how it was that the Apollo 13 ship was damaged, made the claim that 1.1 pounds of Teflon burned in O2 tank number 2. This burning of Teflon, and/or the burning of aluminum, was the fuel that provided the requisite energy to blow the tank. However, when one reads the relevant scientific publications of the commission, induing and especially the appendix dedicated to documenting the details of experiments done in support of the commission's conclusions, no where does one find any experimental support for the claim that all 1.1 pounds of Teflon originally placed in the tank as wire insulation was available for combustion after that tank had been heated for an extended period of time to 1000 degrees F. Also, there is no experimental evidence providing support for the claim that aluminum burned. What was the aluminum ? Where ? How much ? Why did the aluminum burn ? More specifically what were the detailed forensics as regards the commission's claims about aluminum ?

As such experimental support was never provided, one may incontrovertibly conclude that the Cortright Commision was a sham commission, as were its results. The commission's report provided no experimental evidence to support the most important features of their claims about the Apollo 13 disaster's at root cause, the burning of 1.1 pounds of Teflon, and or an undisclosed amount of aluminum. Here it is important to emphasize, the objection is not to the claim that Teflon can burn, or that some Teflon was available for combustion under the circumstances so described, the objection is to the commissions's having failed to provide evidence that there was fuel sufficient, 1.1 pounds of Teflon, and so energy sufficient to blow the tank.

this is particularly ignorant.

the full commission report is available here

the report does NOT say that 1.1lbs of Teflon burned.

It says that 1.1lbs of Teflon was available as fuel as part of the O2 tank (Table 4.1 Materials Available within Oxygen tank), along with .8 lbs Al, 2.2 lbs stainless steel, and 1.7 lbs inconel alloys.

A detailed list of the makeup of every component inside the tank (motors, fans, sensors) etc is given in Appendix D, pages 49-58.

so the amount of aluminium is given, as is its location. However it was not necessary for it to burn in order to cause the rupture - the amount of teflon there was perfectly adequate to cause that - on page 4.38 it says that this amount of teflon was "more than sufficient" to acount for the recorded temperature and pressure changes, and that the time frame for them (relatively slow increases taking over 1 minute) weer consistent with the burning of teflon.

Appendix F is "Special tests and analysis" and includes analysis of the energy requirements for ignition and combustion of teflon, and a master list of all tests and analysis performed.

Wherever you got the idea that 1.1 lbs of teflon represents some sort of mystery is unknown - but that source is just plain wrong.

Originally posted by decisively
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

The point is that after the Apollo 13 mission, Kranz has always claimed he knew the explosion occurred there, at that moment, 14 minutes in, when Lovell said something was venting. The only thing this has to do with the Apollo 13 Voice Transcript is that Lovell's comment is so recorded there in that document. What my point number 5 of this thread is about is Kranz's claims that he knew there was an O2 tank explosion 14/15 minutes in based on Lovell's own claim of having witnessed venting. Kranz is not logically, materially, or otherwise, entitled to make this claim, and as such, this claim proves both Apollo fraudulent and Kranz an insider.

Or it "proves" he is a human being and his memory is not perfect and he is conflating things.

the idea that it PROVES fraud is patent nonsense.

The problem was/is for Kranz that he gave the talk encouraging everyone to settle down way too early. The talk included Kranz's referencing their using the LM. But if you listen to the EECOM loop tapes, or Flight Director loop tapes, you don't get the impression there at 14/15 minutes in there is any huge crisis going on. "Why did Kranz mention the LM ?" , an astute listener would think to himself/herself ?

Because Kranz is thinking of every possible thing that needs to be done.

You are going to fault Kranz for thinking of every option available to the Apollo 13 crew, whether or not it is needed early on?

Yes, I suppose a paranoid person like yourself would think: Ohhh! But see, this means he KNEW ahead of time!

When in fact it only shows that Kranz was thinking of every contingency possible. That was part of his job.

Have you never been in a situation where you need to think of every possible thing that could be wrong? You claim that you've been a medical doctor for 30 years (doubtful since you couldn't even give the proper symptoms for Rubella), and in all of that time, you have never once been in a position where you needed to think of every possible action or plan ahead for "just in case" ? Never?

And if someone does that, it suddenly means that they were aware of the problem ahead of time? In on a hoax?

That is a fine way of showing that you suffer from paranoia.

You can keep pinging away at this, but the only thing you've proven was that Kranz was a very capable person that could think ahead and plan for contingencies or emergencies.

Go back and look at decisively's posts folks. It's full of: "I think", "I feel", "in my opinion", etc, etc.

All subjective opinions, very little proof to speak of.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Speaking of Explosions, I'll be ripping the Apollo 13 service module a big fat new one below....

Actually no, you seem to be missing the main point. The main point is that GENE KRANZ WAS RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED RECORDED IN THE MISSION CONTRO0L ROOM 15 MINUTES INTO THE DRAMA AND ONE MINUTE AFTER LOVELL'S VENTING REPORT TELLING EVERYONE TO SETTLE DOWN AND NOT TO WORRY BECAUSE(paraphrasing now), THEY COULD USE THE LM AS A LIFEBOAT. THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MEMORY. KRANZ IS CAUGHT DEAD TO RIGHTS MAKING THIS STATEMENT. IT IS INCONTROVERTIBLY INCRIMINATING, AND AIN'T NOTHING KRANZ OR ANYBODY CAN SAY TO GET THE CLOWN OFF THE HOOK. HE IS BUSTED.

The "explosion" business, Kranz's claims about being aware of the explosion at this time, although not of some value, otherwise I would not have mentioned it at all, is nevertheless not necessary in the making of my point.

Kranz is caught, on tape, no wiggle room. Your point about memory is irrelevant. We are not asking Kranz to remember anything. We busted his chops. We dope slapped his lying fraudulent rump all the way to the far side of Andromeda, and tomorrow, we're gonna' box his ears so good, he'll wonder for every second of the rest of his life why it is, how it was, he could have been so flat out, full on foolish as to think he was gonna' pull one over on the likes of me and my crew. When I say "box his ears", I mean that metaphorically speaking of course. I abhor physical violence more than nature does a fraudulent cislunar vacuum.

Memory issues per se aside, as regards Kranz and the "EXPLOSION", as you'll see in my covering of his ridiculous rag of a book, FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION, there is no chance Geno misremembered anything. He's telling his story the only way he can, pegging the time of his awareness of the alleged explosion to the time of Lovell's reporting the venting. For if the man who daily looks ever so bravely into the eyes of paper tigers did misremember, and if he really was aware of the "explosion" for the first time like every one else, at the time of Jim Lovell's report of seeing the service module bay side blown open, then his story implodes all the more, for he has given his "RAH RAH RAH LET'S MAYBE USE THE LM PEP TALK" completely out of context.

The evidence which stands against Gene Kranz here is vast, vast as the cislunar space our favorite MAVENS OF THE APOLLO CHARADE know nothing about. And as ATS' Apollo fraud curious readers are about to learn, it all comes from them, the PERPS, their own lines here will crucify a half dozen of them. Those who follow my favorite ATS Apollo Fraud Thread , the APOLLO FRAUD PERPETRATOR LIST thread, will learn that the Apollo 13 study arena constitutes nothing less than a "Fraud Perpetrator Comstock Load". Legler, Reeves, Dick Brown and Bostick all engaged in highly suspicious activities here, not to mention a half a dozen more principals as well, are likely to go down based on their comportment and bad acting skills in their delivery of their Apollo 13 scripted lines . The indictments are not yet formalized, but keep your eyes on the PERP list for posts that will name as many as a half a dozen new PERPS or more. As always, the delicious details outlining the nature of each perpetrator's culpability will be provided with a cherry on the top.

Apollo 13, nothing less than a Fraud Perpetrator Golgotha. Look for Kranz, Aaron, not to mention a handful of lesser luminaries starring in this 20th century floating sit com, to be stretched out and nailed big big big time here. We won't be giving out any crowns of thorns for these boys though, the only things they are/were kings of is shuck and jive. This thread promises to be the BLOODIEST YET. Look for the opposition, my detractors, "Friends of the Apollo Fraud PERPS" to go nuts trying to defend on this front. When Kranz goes, they really may have to call OBAMA about it all.

Anybody out there with a connection to Barack and official story defense duties ? Might want to suggest to the prez he consider throwing in the towel, the Apollo docs are mopping space with astronaut heiny somptin' ferocious on this one baby.









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