Iraqi resistance fighters deliver ultimatum to US

Is there a point to this rhetoric? This ragtag group of idiots is threatening to do what exactly? To attack supply convoys and sabotage oil pipelines? In other words they are threatening to do what they already do anyways, and people are supposed to be afraid now?

Look at the tactics posted above:

Originally posted by smokenmirrors

1. Hiding in declared religious shrines, mosques, etc. so as to attempt to evade death at the hands of the Iraqi army and coalition.

2. Hiding within civilian population centers so as to attempt to evade death at the hands of the Iraqi army and coalition.

3. Specifically targeting innocent Iraqi civilians, men, women, and children alike.

4. Ah yes, in #3, pay close attention to the word "specifically".

5. Utilizing Red Cross insignia, ambulances, and other traditionally "neutral" and easily recognized as "safe" vehicles as homicidal bombs on unsuspecting civilians.

Tactic 1: If they were retreating to the mosques and seeking safe haven, that would be one thing. But they aren't. They are hiding out there and conducting attack operations based out of there. Planning and launching attacks on civilians from a holy place. Always interesting.

Tactic 2: Hiding amongst civilians. Again this is not a "lost in the crowd tactic" this is called surrounding yourself with innocent people so that when conflict does occur you can make sure to take some kiddies with you and portray your enemy as evil. Easy tactic. Too easy. Although one would hope that a party would value its women and children more than intentionally thrusting them into harm's way.

Tactic 3: Specifically targeting Iraqis. Transparent tactic here to make the Iraqi people say "none of this stuff was happening until the Americans came." They're a people under a lot of stress and I can hardly blame them for laying the responsibility in the wrong place. Look at the latest incident of the kids going to get candy. Perhaps that wasn't the intended target but AFTER it happened there were still quotes from militant groups calling it a heroic operation. You plant a bomb that kills 30+ of your own children and you still call it heroic? Not a tragic event? Again an example of these "insurgents" placing no value on the lives of the people they CLAIM to be fighting for.

Tactic 5: Using ambulances and red cross vehicles to attack. This is old. Similar tactics have been employed in the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Do you know what the results of this feebleminded tactic are? You successfully get one or two attacks. And then? And then every single ambulance and red cross vehicle trying to do legitimate work and helping your own people in your own home area gets stopped and checked and detained and inspected and loses valuable time in which lives could be saved. Yes, it's another example of a ragtag group of losers harming their own people more than anyone else.

These people (if you can call them that) are running an inefficient, stupid, and dangerous campaign that is ending up hurting more of their own civilian population than anyone else. Their threats should be ignored. They already do the above tactics and they already do what was in these threats. They say they're planning "major" attacks if America doesn't leave? Major as in what? What they do now is all they can do. Suddenly they're going to bust out 1,000 tanks and planes? I don't think so. Empty rhetoric from empty people.

>>>>>yawns

Originally posted by bushblows

Well hey, man, reality tends to shift when you're poppin' shrooms all day with the lunatic lefties......

You make no sense, Sergeant Sham. If we hadn't abandoned S Vietnam we would have lost people trying to fight for it. It was a lose, lose situation in terms of human lives.

And you forgot the "l" in "floundering."

Actually, I was a Corporal of Marines not a Sergeant. I can understand why you find it hard to believe that anyone would post an avatar that actually represents themselves, since so many here seems to be living in cartoonland (no offense intended). You can, however, rest assured that I am whom I say I am.

USMC 67-71
RVN 68-69 (K/4/13; W/1/13)
WIA 23 Feb 69
Corporal (E-4)

These are my awards:



And for the purposes of your education, I present the following:

Main Entry: 2foun�der

Pronunciation: 'faun-d&r

Function: verb

Inflected Form(s): foun�dered; foun�der�ing /-d(&-)ri[ng]/

Etymology: Middle English foundren to send to the bottom, collapse, from Middle French fondrer, ultimately from Latin fundus

intransitive senses
1 : to become disabled; especially : to go lame
2 : to give way : COLLAPSE
3 : to become submerged : SINK
4 : to come to grief : FAIL

transitive senses : to disable (an animal) especially by excessive feeding

www.merriam-webster.com...

[edit on 04/10/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by zcheng

Is it not the purpose of ATS for us to share information and analysis, thus "Deny Ignorance"? Most often, you will have to look from a different perspective to know the true state of things. Iraq is the prime example.

Are moderators starting to crackdown on different opinions now on ATS?




Seems like a fairly reasonable statement. I still personally think you post bs as fact.

Sometimes I wonder if after all the fights and bombings in the cities of Iraq is going to be any Iraq left to govern after elections, I guess after US finish fighting the "terrorist" and "insurgents" I guess something will remain intact, and that is the rich oil field in the country, who cares who die or live or if is any infrastructure left, as long as the oil keeps flowing.

Maybe Coalition forces should flatten Iraq, rebuild it from his foundations and then repopulate it with American friendly Iraqis Right?

Originally posted by bushblows

You make no sense, Sergeant Sham. If we hadn't abandoned S Vietnam we would have lost people trying to fight for it. It was a lose, lose situation in terms of human lives.
[edit on 5-10-2004 by bushblows]

No what you dont understand is that by abandoning the South all we did was to cheapen the sacrifices of those who fought. If we DO lose in Iraq it will be the same way as in Vietnam, our sons and daughters will be stabed in the back by those here at home.

They're not resistance fighters or insurgents. They're terrorists and they're holding the entire country of Iraq hostage. They can't be wiped out soon enough. The regular citizens of Iraq need to step up and clean these people out. They know who the troublemakers are just like I know where to find the scum in my own neighborhood. Time to take control and deliver their own ultimatum.

Originally posted by torque
They're not resistance fighters or insurgents. They know who the troublemakers are just like I know where to find the scum in my own neighborhood. Time to take control and deliver their own ultimatum.

Have you ever stops and think that perhaps the reason the Iraqi citizens are not fighting back the "Terrorist" is because their family members are their ranks?

Sometimes I wonder if the reason for the "regular" Iraqi people not getting involved is because their own is in the fight against the "invaders"

I am just speculating here but it could be the truth, we know that fighters came to the country from outside, and they are not fighting alone they have now the Iraqi population to help these "terrorist"they need sleep food and arms so do you wonder how they get them and who is helping them onces they are inside Iraq?.

Of course I think many are related to the terrorists. I don't put the word terrorists in quotes because that's what they are. Not resistance fighters, not insurgents, but terrorists.

I said in another thread that if it were my own father, I'd turn him in if I didn't agree with him. If these people don't agree with their children being blown up, they should turn these insects in. I know they're related to them, if not the specific victims of the car bombings, then some who know the victims. If they're so upset about it and hate the destruction so much, they should take steps to clean their own house so we don't have to. If I was an Iraqi citizen and knew where these people could be found, I'd turn them in. If I agreed with what they were doing, then I wouldn't scream and holler every time innocent civillians get killed by them because I'd be supportive of their glorious cause.

The problem is the difference in mindset. I'd turn my terrorist father, uncle, brother or cousin in. That or kill him myself. They won't.

hahaha,they are really good )))I like that comical Ali style ))

I suppose that US forces not only not leave sammara and najaf but they also enter to Fallujah )))

haha ))) these guys are really silly ))

"ultimatum" ))

wasn't that funny?? )

and here they have US answer

story.news.yahoo.com.../afp/20041005/ts_afp/iraq&cid=1503&ncid=1480

[edit on 5-10-2004 by gattaca]

Originally posted by Amuk
No what you dont understand is that by abandoning the South all we did was to cheapen the sacrifices of those who fought.

I would disagree with this, insofar as those who served in Vietnam, especially those who paid the ultimate sacrifice, did so for the noblest of ideals--Freedom. And any effort to expand freedom cannot be cheapened. The South Vietnamese lost their freedom and their nation, but the cause of freedom was ultimately furthered by those served this noblest of causes.

This is why John Kerry's actions on behalf of the enemy was, and is, so egregious. However, no matter how unappreciated or maligned those who fought in the cause of freedom may be, the effect of their effort is eternal. It is always so when anyone stands for principles. Every stand, no matter how small, furthers the ideals we all should strive for.

Those who do otherwise cheapen themselves.


[edit on 04/10/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by zcheng
Good post Zcheng. Let the fighting begin. A total massacre is possible in Iraq, but not yet. The U.S. and British forces remain restrained, in spite of the so called "resistance" forces and their less than valiant fighting tactics, for example:
All I can say is that you are fullly indoctrinated and qualified as a US soldier. Please join US troops in Iraq to fight this "Honorable Crusade". The Country needs your sacrifice.

Has it occurred to anyone that the "terrorists" are getting the arses handed to them. Just imagine what happens after Bush is reelected? Gloves off....

Then you will hear of massacres, these terrorists will wonder what the hell hit em....Just in time for elections also...


SMILE AMERICA BE PROUD TO LIBERATE!

[edit on 5-10-2004 by edsinger]

Originally posted by marg6043
Sometimes I wonder if after all the fights and bombings in the cities of Iraq is going to be any Iraq left to govern after elections

How little you know.....We ARE rebuilding the countries infrastructure. It is being rebuilt with US taxpayer $$$, if the terrorists would quit destroying the waste water treatment, power, and other plants the country could get on its feet.....but folks like you whom look at just the bad stuff give false perceptions to others......get real.

You still don't get it. Every day the movement grows stronger. Every time and Iraqi child gets wasted 20 guerillas replace him. In vietnam we kicked serious ass, over a million viet cong (civilians in pajamas) and NVA put in the ground. We won combat in vietnam but we didn't win the country. The ONLY way we could've won the country was to annhilate everyone and colonize pilgrims in their place.

Baghdad will again become a center of prosperity where the world will flow and so will oil but the attacks will never stop. There are over a million people that will fight and there are countries like Jordan, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt who will make damn sure Iraq is filled with 'advisors' who will not only train insurgents in IED's and urban warfare but keep the propaganda of 'down with America' alive and well.

How do you think the IED's started popping up in the first place? You think the Iraqi's put them together? They were trained how to do it by Jordanians and Syrians who have been doing if for decades. They are masters at recruiting stupid people who will blow themselves up for a cause. It's their game and their good at it.

Just like we as Americnas are good with building muscle cars and tinkering with motors they tinker with ied's and toy with peoples lives in war for their own cause - it's their adreanlin rush, their hobby and it's part of their culture just as making out in a car is to Americans.

How long will America stay in Iraq? We will be there as long as the current president or America as a whole can stomach it. It cracks me up to see our military bases being setup all along the pipeline. If you don't have half a brain too figure that out really you shouldn't even form an opinion you should go study or go fight in a war to get some understanding.

Shiites don't think like you. They look to the future - 100 years out and say if we can get this done by hmmm, 2034 then we'll be in a good position. American minds change every four years. As our government grows bigger so does the lies and Americas mind will be made up with whatever the current administration wants to do.

Pull in - Pull out - Pull in - Pull out - thats America bent over the table and corrupt men in washington going to town. Whats good for business or some quack's ideology will be good enough for young men and women to die and they WILL convince you it's for a good cause.

I said it once I'll say it again. If you want to learn how to fight in war join the military because you will get action, and you'll get if for awhile but join the air cav so you can fly in and stay away from trucks. Supply routes will remain fodder for a long time.

Originally posted by vincere7
You still don't get it. Every day the movement grows stronger. Every time and Iraqi child gets wasted 20 guerillas replace him. In vietnam we kicked serious ass, over a million viet cong (civilians in pajamas) and NVA put in the ground. We won combat in vietnam but we didn't win the country. The ONLY way we could've won the country was to annhilate everyone and colonize pilgrims in their place.

This is hardly true. If the communists had not had such faith in Kerry and the anti-war (anti-American) movement, they would not have had the confidence to continue the war. They could have been been forced to make concessions and South Vietnam could have been made free. It is largely true that the South Vietnamese were unwilling to fight for their own country, while they were, in many cases, willing to fight against America.

In this case, those Vietnamese were either convinced that Ho Chi Minh was indeed fighting a war of reunification only or they had had family members and friends murdered by the Vietnamese and thereby coerced into fighting with the Viet Cong.

Perhaps the largest lie perpetrated about the war in Vietnam is that America was by policy commiting atrocities when, in fact, the communist commited atrocities on a daily basis and did so as a means of terrorizing the civilian populace into fighting for their cause. In stark contrast was the Montagnards who fought valiantly against the communists and did so even after the withdrawal of US combat troops.

John Kerry was the primary instrument of the communists in convincing the American people that the Americans were the war criminals when, in fact, the communist don't even entertain such a thing as a war crime. To them, there is only the concept of overtaking and oppressing the innocent at any price.

It is a shame that so many of the Vietnamese got exactly what they bargained for and it is a greater shame that Kerry and those of his ilk were able to con the American people into taking the side of the enemy against their own nation.

It was the darkest time in our history up to that time. I hope that we don't sink to that level now, but if we do then I fear we will get exactly what we bargained for.

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[edit on 04/10/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Those who do otherwise cheapen themselves.
[edit on 04/10/5 by GradyPhilpott]

That was pretty much what I meant

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

John Kerry was the primary instrument of the communists in convincing the American people that the Americans were the war criminals when, in fact, the communist don't even entertain such a thing as a war crime. To them, there is only the concept of overtaking and oppressing the innocent at any price.

It is a shame that so many of the Vietnamese got exactly what they bargained for and it is a greater shame that Kerry and those of his ilk were able to con the American people into taking the side of the enemy against their own nation.

It was the darkest time in our history up to that time. I hope that we don't sink to that level now, but if we do then I fear we will get exactly what we bargained for.


[edit on 04/10/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Thank you for this, if ONLY America understood this. Why no outcry in the press over beheadings to the same degree as the Abu Garib prision scandal? It is the same thing that the left portrays, to make America weaker and it is sickening..

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

This is hardly true. If the communists had not had such faith in Kerry and the anti-war (anti-American) movement, they would not have had the confidence to continue the war. They could have been been forced to make concessions and South Vietnam could have been made free. It is largely true that the South Vietnamese were unwilling to fight for their own country, while they were, in many cases, willing to fight against America.
[edit on 04/10/5 by GradyPhilpott]

You actually believe that the NVA based their strategy of winning the war, on America's reaction to it? Thats just propaganda, psychological warfare, espionage, just a tactic. Kerry was just used becasue he was in the public. If that speech was given in a school auditorium it would have been forgotten. Kerry just didn't understand how espionage was used until it was done against him. It's just a tool to win a war not the war strategy. The vietnamese employed this like everyone else but the russians and the chinese are masters in espionage and in Vietnam we found out how good the russians were.

First of all the NVA were supplied by china who was in turn supplied by the Soviet Union. They weren't shooting G-3's they had Kalashnikov AK's. Let me break down reality for you as obviously you don't know this.

Vietnam was a pissing war between the USA and the Soviet Union. The soviet union was the victor in that they didn't use forces only 'advisors' and weaponry to fight the war and spread communism. This was a great victory for them after the embarrassing cuban missle crisis. Also we got them back for vietnam in Afghanistan. The CIA is very proud of that but on the downside for getting revenge on the soviets we created a new guerilla - terrorists. Yes we advised them or made them if you will.

The south vietnamese were incapable of doing anything remotely possible to defend themselves against the North. Marvin ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) was so overrun and ceded with spies they were completely ineffective in simple field operations and is why Saigon fell within a year.

When south vietnam asked for help it wasn't asking for support it was asking to stop the communists from overrunning them.

The population of vietnam lived with the viet cong and shopped with them daily, bought rice from them and so forth as the viet cong were the farmers and communist youth of the nation. Those who were not with the viet cong activists were forced into service or suffer the death of family individuals from village to village and so forth. So ARVN or the south lived daily with their brothers of whom they fought at night. Actually the viet cong would be warned where ARVN would be for any operational forces and the U.S. knew this. They were merely scapegoats to "proceed with operations."

Montagnards were considered by vietnamese as low life scum, or lower specimens of men and were of course shunned from society. So yes we used them effectively as they hated the vietnamese and knew the jungles well. If you don't have someone on your side who knows the streets you're screwed. They were better than Marvin in that they were not compromised.

We of course as the U.S. didn't need ARVN, they only hampered our efforts in any AO, (by giving it away) and we were effectively exterminating the viet cong anyway to get to the NVA. The north vietnamese were brilliant tacticians as they used the farmers, the viet cong, to fight the war for them while they amassed armament. The viet cong were "throw aways" to maintain military strength. They were marking elements to determine strength of the enemy where they were operating etc.. etc.. while the NVA focused on major operations.

ARVN was a puppet regime by the US to say "we are helping the boys in south vietnam," to have a reason to be legitimately there. Reality is the south was already lost and we were the only ones keeping it alive. The vietnamese know this and we know this, surprisingly some americans still don't know this (thats because you're not supposed to).

Once the administration and the American people lost the stomach to win the war against communism we pulled out. Saigon fell in a year because it was being held up by the American flag which was pulled out from under it.

To say that the Vietnamese were not good tacticians or fighters is ridiculous. To say they would not continue their campaign to defeat America or any nation that would stand betweem them and their way of life is ignorant. The war wasn't un-winable as some like to say but we would have had to kill everyone or the majority of the poulation to make them completely ineffective as a nation. We had to kill cohesion.

The same is true with Iraq but the beliefs are different. The vietnamese didn't just blow themselves up. They used every dirty trick in the war book they could think of and created some, as did we, but Syrian and jordanian recruits just use det caps. Simple policy just like the Japanese used, 1 for 10.

It's nice that Iraqi's are "freedom loving people" like George Bush says but the guerillas have to be exterminated first before you cripple the infrastructure which of course is too late. Misery creates company and the masters of espionage wield this superbly. They don't have to change Iraqi's from being "freedom loving people" into "muslim loving people," because they already are - the battle is half done.

You may be able to bomb a nation into submission but you can never kill their beliefs.