I joined the Communist Party

Originally posted by brukernavn
In a true communist society, you only get what you put in. If you CHOOSE to not work, you get NOTHING.

There's another c-word that works the same way. Carpolism? No...caspianism? Not quite. It's on the tip of my tongue. Someone help me here!

Seriously though. I love you people that say "true communism has never existed!" Except that it has, and does. I'm pretty sure Groucho...er...Harpo...dang it!...Karl Marx knew what he was talking about. And communism has always led to the grand and utopian societies that existed in the U.S.S.R, China, North Korea, and Cuba. But good luck with that idealism. Maybe it'll buy you some toilet paper.

/TOA

Originally posted by The Old American
And communism has always led to the grand and utopian societies that existed in the U.S.S.R, China, North Korea, and Cuba. But good luck with that idealism. Maybe it'll buy you some toilet paper.
/TOA

But there have been no communists countries, that is a fact.

Those nations were communist in name only, it was not a description of their economic system, they did not practice a communism economy.

To use those countries to define communism is completely wrong.

Instead of learning what those terms really mean you have all accepted the propaganda. What a country does is not the definition of a label they use. The definition came long before nations appropriated those terms.

Again a little history, from 1959...

THE first World War produced the Russian Revolution and, whatever its original intentions, it was and remained a national revolution...

...WHILE a positive attitude toward nationalism betrays a lack of interest in socialism, the socialist position on nationalism is obviously ineffective in countries fighting for national existence as well as in those countries oppressing other nations. If only by default, a consistent anti-nationalist position seems to support imperialism. However, imperialism functions for reasons of its own, quite independently of socialist attitudes toward nationalism. Furthermore, socialists are not required for the launching of struggles for national autonomy as the various “liberation” movements in the wake of the second World War have shown. Contrary to earlier expectations, nationalism could not be utilized to further socialist aims, nor was it a successful strategy to hasten the demise of capitalism. On the contrary, nationalism destroyed socialism by using it for nationalist ends...

...Unless socialism is altogether a mirage, it will rise again as an international movement-or not at all. In any case, and on the basis of past experience, those interested in the rebirth of socialism must stress its internationalism most of all. While it is impossible for a socialist to become a nationalist, he is nevertheless an anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist. However, his fight against colonialism does not imply adherence to the principle of national self-determination, but expresses his desire for a non-exploitative, international socialist society....

Paul Mattick 1959 Nationalism and Socialism

Nationalism replaced the previous imperialist powers, whatever you want to call it Russia was far better off under nationalism than imperialism, and even than now since the end of "communism". But it was not communist. Nations appropriated left-wing terms and used them for their own ends.

I saw this video a few weeks ago and thought it was interesting considering everything the continent went through before and after World War II.

If I saw this in New York City I would pretty much pack my bags. I would take capitalism over communism any day. jmo

reply to post by INDOMITABLE


Again that was not communism. There was no communism in the soviet block. Lot's of proof of that in this thread.

I would leave that place for a capitalist state also. We want to improve our economy, not make it worse. True leftists wouldn't continue a system, that was not working. The whole point of the left was change to improve, the right was to maintain the present system and/or increase the power of the state.

I know that is not how you define left and right, but it is how it was defined in the times we are disusing, and you have to use the definition they used to understand what happened and how it effects us now.

I wish people would read before posting, that way the same old stuff is not constantly repeated. These debates never go anywhere, just keep going around in circles.

they don't go anywhere because some people keep bringing up old stuff that has already been mentioned and answered in the thread.


move forward you all. enough with the same stuff. it has already been established numerous times that the definition of the term "communist or communism" the capitalists/coproratists/anit-communists use is propaganda.


either understand that and keep using the term with that footnoted or move past it.


im very appalled at how many of my fellow US citizens are ignorant of propaganda from the corporatist side or the side that put a smear/red scare on the term communism.


know your enemy.

Originally posted by brukernavn
In a true communist society, you only get what you put in. If you CHOOSE to not work, you get NOTHING.

Oh yeah, and can you tell us your EXPERIENCE living, and working in a COMUNIST nation?...

Waiting to hear your experiences...

Originally posted by krossfyter
....
im very appalled at how many of my fellow US citizens are ignorant of propaganda from the corporatist side or the side that put a smear/red scare on the term communism.


know your enemy.

Your enemy is ignorance, and your unwillingness to listen to those who ACTUALY experienced life under socialist/communist regimes...

STOP THE BS that "everyone who speaks bad about socialism communism is a paid corporate stooge" or whatever STUPID excuse you want to make up...

I am tired of idiots, from the whole world who either do not have any experience whatsoever on socialism/communism, yet they want to claim those people who actually lived and experienced life under a socialist/communist state "are CIA, or corporate stooges"...

Grow the hell up...

=

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


b b b b butt!! That wasn't TRUE Communism, you know! *yawn*

I'm still waiting for the pro-communism camp to tell us how they intend to implement their form of (let us call it), NEO-Communism???????

Anyone care to explain this finally?

Click here for more information.

hahaha. take it more seriously why dont you!

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Your eveny is ignorance, and your unwillingness to lsiten to those who ACTUALY experienced life under socialist/communist regimes...

im listening. it sounds lik you're a very mean spirited person. why should i listen any further. its obvious you have an axe to grind. the OP seems to very friendly. you on the other hand... NOT!

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
STOP THE BS that "everyone who speaks bad about socialism communism is a paid corporate stooge" or whatever STUPID excuse you want to make up...

your reading comprehension on what i actually said is your fault. but its okay. ive seen you make those errors with other on here so no surprise.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I am tired of idiots, from the whole world who either do not have any experience whatsoever on socialism/communism, yet they want to claim those people who actually lived and experienced life under a socialist/communist state "are CIA, or corporate stooges"...

AXE TO GRIND! nothing to do with what i said. nice try.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Grow the hell up...

i have been very civil in this thread. i have asked questions respectfully and made statements respectfully.

the fact that you chose to respond to my latest one shows you have an AXE TO GRIND. Only when I make a declaration like the one i made in the previous post do I have someone come along to try and get into a pissing match with me. You are being extremely transparent. I have no interest in communicating with someone that cant show a simple level of decorum.

its funny how you tell me to grow the hell up with the post you just posted. how ironic.

reply to post by krossfyter


You are biased and your score doesn't mean squat. I've been enjoying this thread and I do find the debate enlightening HOWEVER there is simply no freakin' way that the "commies" are winning this debate.

Anok and the OP are very good at defending their position but they have not even come close to explaining how Communism is any better than Capitalism. In fact, when they describe their "TRUE"version of Communism, it sounds an awful lot like "Capitalism".

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Adama
If we Americans lose the coming battle in November, people like this self avowed Communist (The OP) will be handing over the the names of all us patriots here who have been calling him out, and we will be executed by Obama himself!

edit on 15-6-2012 by Adama because: clarity

Get a grip, man! there IS no "battle" this coming November. Your "choice" is between Obamney and Obamney. It's like buying a pair of shoes, then getting home, opening the box, and discovering they are both for the left foot.


The OP isn't even American - why in the hell would he want to hand your name to anyone?

Thank you. Another major rebuttal to this person´s ignorant rant is that Obama is not even communist. Obama wants the state to control things, as far as I can see. Obama does not appear to want to make government smaller, which is anti-communist in itself.

Originally posted by krossfyter


im listening. it sounds lik you're a very mean spirited person. why should i listen any further. its obvious you have an axe to grind. the OP seems to very friendly. you on the other hand... NOT!

Oooh, I am so sorry, I guess I must bow down and kiss the feet of ignorant people who want to implement worldwide the hellholle I lived and experienced while in Cuba...

Originally posted by krossfyter
your reading comprehension on what i actually said is your fault. but its okay. ive seen you make those errors with other on here so no surprise.

Oooh, so you didn't write, and let me quote...

Originally posted by krossfyter
move forward you all. enough with the same stuff. it has already been established numerous times that the definition of the term "communist or communism" the capitalists/coproratists/anit-communists use is propaganda.

So can YOU tell us YOUR Personal experienced in commumism that allows you to know the "TRUTH"?... Naa, instead, since you are completely ignorant on the topic, you decide to claim that anyone who is anti-communism is just using propaganda...

Originally posted by krossfyter
AXE TO GRIND! nothing to do with what i said. nice try.

Oh yeah I have an axe to grind... I lived and experienced socialism/communism, UNLIKE YOU...

Funny how the only people who want to "implement socialism/communism again" are those who have never experienced it and really know nothing about it... These are the same people who claim that anyone who bashes at socialism/communism because they lived nd experienced it "they are propagandists and don't have the truth"...

Oh, and the one person who "claims lived and experienced socialism/communism was playing with video games, as he declared himself which means this person was a son of a high ranking communist official... No wonder he LOVES socialism/communism... He had everything meanwhile the mayority of the kids and families living in the same nation didn't...

Originally posted by krossfyter
i have been very civil in this thread. i have asked questions respectfully and made statements respectfully.

Really?... You that have never experienced socialism/communism and in this thread you claim that anyone who speaks the truth about socialism/communism are "corporate propagandists"... That's being respectful?...

You know what? I HOPE YOU FIND YOURSELVES LIVING UNDER SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM, but I fear for the rest of the people who are innocent and would have to pay for YOUR IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY...

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by brukernavn
In a true communist society, you only get what you put in. If you CHOOSE to not work, you get NOTHING.

There's another c-word that works the same way. Carpolism? No...caspianism? Not quite. It's on the tip of my tongue. Someone help me here!

Seriously though. I love you people that say "true communism has never existed!" Except that it has, and does. I'm pretty sure Groucho...er...Harpo...dang it!...Karl Marx knew what he was talking about. And communism has always led to the grand and utopian societies that existed in the U.S.S.R, China, North Korea, and Cuba. But good luck with that idealism. Maybe it'll buy you some toilet paper.

/TOA

In the USSR, China, North Korea, and Cuba the workers own/owned the means of production? Link please.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by brukernavn
In a true communist society, you only get what you put in. If you CHOOSE to not work, you get NOTHING.

Oh yeah, and can you tell us your EXPERIENCE living, and working in a COMUNIST nation?...

Waiting to hear your experiences...

There has never been a country which practices communism (workers owning the means of production), hence I cannot have experienced such. Try harder next time.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


Oooh, so you didn't write, and let me quote...

Originally posted by krossfyter
move forward you all. enough with the same stuff. it has already been established numerous times that the definition of the term "communist or communism" the capitalists/coproratists/anit-communists use is propaganda.

so and? you didnt read it well apparently.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
So can YOU tell us YOUR Personal experienced in commumism that allows you to know the "TRUTH"?... Naa, instead, since you are completely ignorant on the topic, you decide to claim that anyone who is anti-communism is just using propaganda...

no not at all. who said i was painting with a large brush? im simply speaking from the comments on this post. most seem to go over the same mis understanding of terms again and again that have been pointed out very early.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Oh yeah I have an axe to grind... I lived and experienced socialism/communism, UNLIKE YOU...

again... thats not communism like ANOX and the OP keeps telling EVERYONE time and time again. geeez.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Funny how the only people who want to "implement socialism/communism again" are those who have never experienced it and really know nothing about it... These are the same people who claim that anyone who bashes at socialism/communism because they lived nd experienced it "they are propagandists and don't have the truth"...

which communism did you experience again?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Really?... You that have never experienced socialism/communism and in this thread you claim that anyone who speaks the truth about socialism/communism are "corporate propagandists"... That's being respectful?...

again with the i have lived under blah blah blah crutch. please. its getting old. i have lived under the oppressive regime of the 1%/bankers and corporatist elite. so what. i dont use it has a hang up for civil discussion.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
You know what? I HOPE YOU FIND YOURSELVES LIVING UNDER SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM, but I fear for the rest of the people who are innocent and would have to pay for YOUR IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY...

true communism or faux communism?


LOL!

Originally posted by toolgal462
reply to post by krossfyter

 

You are biased and your score doesn't mean squat. I've been enjoying this thread and I do find the debate enlightening HOWEVER there is simply no freakin' way that the "commies" are winning this debate.

Anok and the OP are very good at defending their position but they have not even come close to explaining how Communism is any better than Capitalism. In fact, when they describe their "TRUE"version of Communism, it sounds an awful lot like "Capitalism".

please the score---- it was a joke. it was intended to be sarcasm. true this has been an enlightening conversation from the ANOX and the OP and those that are or have been civil towards them.

Originally posted by brukernavn

Thank you. Another major rebuttal to this person´s ignorant rant is that Obama is not even communist. Obama wants the state to control things, as far as I can see. Obama does not appear to want to make government smaller, which is anti-communist in itself.

edit on 6/15/2012 by brukernavn because: one too many s´s

Wow...Again, the ones who show to know NOTHING whatsoever about socialism/communism are people like you...

You obviously haven't even read the Communist manifesto...

Do you understand what CENTRALISATION IN GOVERNMENT means?...

A centralized (US, Oxford English) or centralised (UK) government is one in which power or legal authority is exerted or coordinated by a de facto political executive to which federal states, local authorities, and smaller units are considered subject. In a national context, centralization occurs in the transfer of power to a typically sovereign nation state.

en.wikipedia.org...

Under socialism all infraestructure and means of production is nationalized, alongside agriculture, and everything else... Which means under socialism all power is consolidated in the hands of the state...

Under communism everything is also "nationalized' and centralized as well", there is even a central bank that controls the entire economy.

Leftwing ideologies are the ones in which all power is consolidated to the state, even if it is claimed to be "for the people"...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


OK. Although I disagree with what you just said and find it false, let me try something. Let me take away the word communism for a moment. If I did not wish to associate with communism/communists and only said that I desire a system in which the workers own the means of production, what say you?