The Life of Issa and the Gospels

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
And the idea of Jesus with his wife at his side riding out of Jerusalem, a white suit and temple gold in the back of a one horse carriage, with bells ringing out, laughing all the way, makes my spirit soar!

Although admittedly speculation on my part, the "temple gold" to which I'm referring (and the white suit), may have been given to Jesus on exiting his tomb, by the men in dazzling white seen by the women standing near his opened, and empty, tomb..

Luke 24

Jesus Has Risen
24 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ” 8 Then they remembered his words.

9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. 11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense. 12 Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened.

On the Road to Emmaus
13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles[a] from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.

17 He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”

They stood still, their faces downcast. 18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”

19 “What things?” he asked.

“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

given to him, by these wealthy men in dazzling white, both as a type of reparation for his ordeal (and to perhaps enable to him to "get out of dodge" never to return again..) and, as a type of "wink and a nod" (and a very big smile), that they fully understood, recognized and appreciated his mission and his Magnum Opus performed in their midst, a Great Work of the Ages both completed and started anew. They knew. They understood what he was doing, and through Nicodemus, and perhaps even by Jesus himself, were also initated into the mystery of the divine principal of death and resurrection, both as a fullfillment of the law and the prophets, and as the fulcrum of an everlasting evolutionary process of growth and increasing joy and happiness in completion. Friends of Nicodemus and the very wealthy Joseph of Arimathea, the owner of the tomb itself and into whose hands the "dead" body of Jesus was delivered for burial. And in their glorious white suits, they are participating in the ritual and it's central purpose - taking on for themselves to glorious role of serving as witness to the event, even as the living aspect of the Lion's Paw of resurrection and the glory and joy of new and everlasting life.

And yet Jesus, from his own perspective, while he may have "seeded" the neccessary thoughts and concerns among these "friends in high places", would have kept himself in the dark, to a degree, within what scientific experiment calls a "double blind", in faith, and absolute obediance, unto death, which in this case, was a rather distinct possibility and something that he obviously only narrowly avoided by a thread.

Nothing therefore is diminished, and everything regained, and more, as with Jona (spit back onto the beach) and Job retored (who although he actually failed his test of faith was nevertheless restored to vitality and prosperity after his ordeal.

In other words, what we have here is the very same Jesus as depected in the Gospels X2, so to speak, because heaven, to BE heaven, must also include the manifestation of heaven on earth, experienced in fullness (and with great joy), the only difference being that here we actually get to see and recognize Jesus' triumph and ultimate sacrifice both, while also at the same time secretly knowing, in shared joy and celebration, that true Magi are so powerful that they can creatively generate in alignment with God's purposes waves of causation AND at the same time realize the harvest from the returned "ripple effects" of all their activity, or that they never begin a particular ministry without always beginning with the end in mind..


And so indeed the left hand must not be given to know what the right hand is doing.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
The John Gesture

 

The John Gesture (again) [what does it mean?]
Leonardo da Vinci, "The Last Supper"

Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
~ John 13:36, KJV

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
~ John, 14:3

*** Check out da Vinci's painting in zoomable, high res here at the following link *** (trust me, it's worth it!)

www.haltadefinizione.com...

And NOTE (although this is just da Vinci's own interpretation and understanding, and secret knowledge..?) the look on the disciple's face to the right (our right) of the guy doing the "John gesture", and technically the first person on Jesus's left hand - as he stares, gape mouthed and in dismay, if not outrage - at Jesus' right hand that is reaching for more..

That da Vinci - quite the sense of humor, and it looks like he may have known Jesus better than the church for whom, hidden in his painting is contained the ultimate "blasphemy" by strict doctrinal standards.


Way to go Jesus! I love you. You ROCK!

Now I can't be the only one (not any more) to get this and laugh out loud with Jesus Christ himself in absolute joy with him and with his joy made complete! Magnificent!

He was, is and will forever remain. In him alone, and by his grace and infinite intelligence, the great gift of eternal life is already ours, as well, in perfect sympathetic harmony with him in his sacred heart, and Mary who cannot be excluded but yet that said, what is born of the spirit alone lives eternal.

Thank you Jesus Christ, for the great gift of eternal life and heaven, as our already-always state of mind and being; you made it possible, wherein our own sense of mirth and humor (and charm) can at last be restored, and our spirit, revifified! Amen.

I love you Jesus and I just want to know you better - what could possibly be wrong with that?


if you're in dismay, please hang in there with me on this, there's more to follow, and yes I'll admit that the conjecture is running high and the connections being made rather loose and tenuous. However I'm convinced that the type of historical textual criticism I'm using here holds some water.

Best Regards,

NAM

And so, here, what we have, imho, is the Pope dressing up not as "Santa" per se, nor simply in immitation of St. Nicholas of Myra, but in immitation of Jesus' (Issa's) own Yuletide-type celebration for each winter solstice, thereafter, very likely giving out gifts as a symbol/allegory of the greater gift of life meeting life (and what was money to him anyway?) to people and in particular to children (remember the idea of the horrors of Jesus' own childhood, being different and fatherless and thus almost certain bullied unrelentingly to the point that he had to leave Jewish society as a boy) as St. Nicholas himself was known to do almost certainly in immitation of what he'd learned and knew of Jesus (and the elder Issa) having been part of the very council of Nicea itself. Perhaps even Nicholas's reputation for leaving money in people's shoes when they weren't looking wasn't his own invention either!

Cloak of red symbolizes blood atonement, white trimming, purity and innocence.

'Santa Pope' woos Vatican crowds

BBC News
Thursday, 22 December 2005, 05:07 GMT


Pope Benedict XVI appears to be getting into a different kind of Christmas spirit, donning a Santa-style hat for his weekly appearance at the Vatican.
At a chilly St Peter's Square, the Pope draped a red cloak over his shoulders and covered his head with a red velvet hat lined with white fur.

(he can't help looking like Emporer Palpatine, so save the comments about how evil he looks please and thank you!

)



^^^ PULLING THE HAT DOWN TIGHT!

(note the shiney white suit)

Saint Nicholas @ Nicaea

Bishop Nicholas Loses His Cool (At The Council of Nicaea)


In AD 325 Emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea, the very first ecumenical council. More than 300 bishops came from all over the Christian world to debate the nature of the Holy Trinity. It was one of the early church's most intense theological questions. Arius, from Egypt, was teaching that Jesus the Son was not equal to God the Father. Arius forcefully argued his position at length. The bishops listened respectfully.
As Arius vigorously continued, Nicholas became more and more agitated. Finally, he could no longer bear what he believed was essential being attacked. The outraged Nicholas got up, crossed the room, and slapped Arius across the face! The bishops were shocked. It was unbelievable that a bishop would lose control and be so hotheaded in such a solemn assembly. They brought Nicholas to Constantine. Constantine said even though it was illegal for anyone to strike another in his presence, in this case, the bishops themselves must determine the punishment.
The bishops stripped Nicholas of his bishop's garments, chained him, and threw him into jail. That would keep Nicholas away from the meeting. When the Council ended a final decision would be made about his future.
Nicholas was ashamed and prayed for forgiveness, though he did not waver in his belief. During the night, Jesus and Mary his Mother, appeared,* asking, "Why are you in jail?" "Because of my love for you," Nicholas replied. Jesus then gave the Book of the Gospels to Nicholas. Mary gave him an omophorion, so Nicholas would again be dressed as a bishop. Now at peace, Nicholas studied the Scriptures for the rest of the night.
When the jailer came in the morning, he found the chains loose on the floor and Nicholas dressed in bishop's robes, quietly reading the Scriptures. When Constantine was told of this, the emperor asked that Nicholas be freed. Nicholas was then fully reinstated as the Bishop of Myra.
The Council of Nicaea agreed with Nicholas' views, deciding the question against Arius. The work of the Council produced the Nicene Creed which to this day many Christians repeat weekly when they stand to say what they believe.

www.stnicholascenter.org...

What am I trying to convey here?

That Jesus was also Issa and the figure of Santa as well (laughing, kind hearted men of men, with white beard, and at Christmas time or Yuletide Solstice Celebration every year, very well dressed, with a cloak and hat of red and white to symbolize his Magnum Opus or Great Work), whereby the icon of Santa did not in fact begin with St. Nicholas, but with St. Nicholas' own immitation/celebration of the Yuletide Jesus Christ who was himself (in his own awareness and recognition) the personification and embodiment of the principal of death and resurrection which the pegans had previously celebrated during the time, each year, of the death and resurrection of the winter sun @ winter solstice, signifying the dying/ending of one year/cycle, and the beginning/resurrection, of a new one.


Praise the Lord!


You know, some things, you'll only find here, at ATS, of all places.

Cheers,

NAM

So the answer then, I guess, is, "YES, Virginia, there really IS a Santa!"

Oh HO HO!

The "Last" Supper


Fastforward approximately 35 years:

A man, a Pharisee, rides a galloping horse on the road to Damascus, his mind driven by a singular religious conviction, his heart, by an anger verging on hatred and a lust for vengeance growing only stronger with each arrest (and even the occasional "sentence").

Galloping..galloping...


WHAM! Blinding White Light, ("I can't SEE!"). THUD. Hit's ground. Tumbles to a painful stop ("WTH?"). Hears a voice, a pleasing to the ear almost mirthful, and certainly a kind, loving voice...

"Saul. Saul. Why do you persectute me?"

"Who ARE you Lord..?!!!"



and so the dance goes on...




It makes no difference therefore, you see, if there really ARE bones, when you make absolutely no bones about it whatsoever.

Cheers,
Your brother in Christ Jesus.

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


A slight issue with this story you presented here...

Nicholas was ashamed and prayed for forgiveness, though he did not waver in his belief. During the night, Jesus and Mary his Mother, appeared,* asking, "Why are you in jail?" "Because of my love for you," Nicholas replied.

IF Jesus and mary appeared to him... why would they need to ask Nicholas how he landed himself in jail?

Logically...wouldn't they already know why?

Considering they "appeared" to him in said jail?

I mean they knew where he was, yet had no idea why he was there?

Does a spirit need to ask why?

This sounds like a fabricated story to me...

reply to post by Akragon

To elicit his response? Same thing with the Road to Damascus inquiry. Even Nicholas' response seemed to indicate an awareness that the details were not relevant, only the motivation. That his adoration and devotion included both Jesus and Mary is, imo, based on what's already been conveyed here, most appropriate.


And surely I cannot be the only one to detect the wonderful sense of humor in all this, and in God..

i.e.:

When the jailer came in the morning, he found the chains loose on the floor and Nicholas dressed in bishop's robes, quietly reading the Scriptures. When Constantine was told of this, the emperor asked that Nicholas be freed.

Blessing to whoever, after reading this page of the thread, whent "ah HA", slammed their hand down on the desk in front of them and burst out laughing in a shared sympathetic triumph with Jesus himself.


Cheers,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I can't say i believe the "damascus" story either honestly...

Paul taught a different doctrine then Jesus did... and rarely mentioned any of his teachings

Even contradicts his teachings in some cases...

Blessing to whoever, after reading this page of the thread, whent "ah HA", slammed their hand down on the desk in front of them and burst out laughing in a shared sympathetic triumph with Jesus himself.

haha...

I love your zeal though

reply to post by Akragon

His Damascus experience was the entire basis for his ministry, which was rather unlikely (to say the least) to have been initiated otherwise. He told and retold the same story everywhere he went, and let us not forget that the overall authenticity of Paul, his letters and of his person as a historical figure are not in question. Something very real happened to him that day. I don't think there's much reason to question it.

And like I said earlier in this thread, Saul turned Paul did his best with the understanding and resources available to him, and he wasn't an actual disciple like his elder contemporary Peter who Paul argued with as to just who Jesus was for, whether only Jew (Peter's initial POV) or for Jew and Gentile both.

If not for Paul, Christianity would have shriveled up and died with the Jews who largely rejected it on the basis that it trascended the law and the need to adhere to a whole bunch of observances and edicts. For the Jew, Jesus and his teachings represent a certain boundary dissolution and the loss of their nationalistist particularism ie: Parable of the Good Samaritan, etc. which they feared would lead to a loss of their identity AS Jews and what being Jewish really means.

If not for Paul I myself would not know Jesus, so I'm rather grateful to him for his minstry and I'm so glad that Jesus ah, caught up with there on that road.

Cheers,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


This thread isn't about paul... but people have every reason to question his "conversion"

I believe Paul realized the power "Christianity" had over the populous, so he adapted what he needed to gain his own following...

IF his little experience was real... i believe he would have taught more about the ways of Christ as opposed to his own lessons

If not for Paul I myself would not know Jesus, so I'm rather grateful to him for his minstry and I'm so glad that Jesus caught up with there on that road.

That honestly makes me sad...

Christianity would be entirely different if they stuck to what Jesus taught...

Pauls doctrine of "grace" is one of the "failures" of the religion in my humble opinion

reply to post by Akragon

Your bias is showing.

But let's get back on topic, yes.

I've come across more, from the Gnostic Gospels, which indicate that one of Jesus' disciples re-joined him, post-resurrection, and that Jesus (Issa) stayed for a while as a guest of a foreign king.

More to follow..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Akragon

 

Your bias is showing.

My Bias is Obvious my friend...

I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

If not for Paul I myself would not know Jesus, so I'm rather grateful to him for his minstry and I'm so glad that Jesus caught up with there on that road.

That honestly makes me sad...

It's simple historical fact. If not extended to the Gentiles via Paul's ministry, the movement would have probably died on the vine, and I am happy to be grafted onto that vine, so that Christ can live in me with me in Him.

The problem you refer to, isn't I don't think as much with Paul's simplified doctrine of Grace (made as simple and palatable as possible), but instead with the Roman Church's "seek and destroy mission" against all "heresies", which included of course the 12 emanations of the Magi, an initation process passed down by Jesus himself via his disciples.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Akragon

 

Your bias is showing.

My Bias is Obvious my friend...

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

I put that statement in quotes for you hope you don't mind.

I think a person would have to be spiritually-mystically blind (or self-willed) not to recognize in Jesus' Magnum Opus, the twin pillars of a severe justice, on the one hand, and a tender mercy, on the other, set in place at Calvalry/Golgotha.

That he was able to both place it there AND get to continue to live out a happy and fulfilled human life so as to contain the fullness of all aspects of what it means (or is supposed to mean) to be fully human, that, imho, is the marvel of the secret being conveyed/illuminated in this very thread.

Jesus' (Issa's) Holiday Years!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
The John Gesture

 

The John Gesture (again) [what does it mean?]
Leonardo da Vinci, "The Last Supper"

Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
~ John 13:36, KJV

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
~ John, 14:3

*** Check out da Vinci's painting in zoomable, high res here at the following link *** (trust me, it's worth it!)

www.haltadefinizione.com...

I have to say that this idea, of a triumphant Jesus joining with his father, not "straight up" right away, but through a full life lived to the full, in a state of continual happiness and joy, even bliss, just thrills me to no end. And it's in alignment wiht the Jesus I know and love at the same time.

That said I would like to make here a very important distinction, and that is that Jesus did not "twin" so to speak, at the cross, with his human self running off thereafter on the other side of the ordeal, into an entirely sensuous and hedonistic lifestyle (then again if anyone was entitled, it was he! lol) or worse, into a life of debauchery, and a loss of fundamental integrity, that's just not in his character, it makes no difference if he remarried after Mary's death on the road to a housemaid he didn't love as he loved Mary.

And if, say, come the annual Yuletide-type Solstice Celebration he dressed up as Santa, and, with his 2nd wife's permission of course, standing in a doorway (the mistletoe hung above) - passionataly kissed one woman after another, in memory of his first love Mary, with a line of women from here to kingdom come ..., who could fault him (or them, for wanting such a kiss)..?

No he knew what he was doing, the whole way. It's not a dual Jesus, but a whole one where before we only have half (and a straught up) Jesus.

Here's a photo which could easily have been an area he once walked, in Kashmir.


Did this blonde have more fun?



I sure hope so, because if anyone deserved to be happy, it was Jesus himself. And I think he understood that after a life of sorrow, such a thing would be neccessary in the final analysis and so he summoned up the courage to do that as well, just to round it all out, so that indeed "a place would be made" so that his followers would also get to be with him in his bliss and joy and celebration.

And now Lord your joy is made complete in us and in our own willingness, to be happy.

Cheers,

NAM

So I guess we can only HOPE that His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI, is seen laughing, here, for all the RIGHT reasons..!

No one has a sense of humor anymore..

reply to post by Akragon


Hey this is great, I appreciate the work you put into this thread and I can't wait to read part one! God bless you for sharing your thoughts with us. I hope we will see more from you in the future.

reply to post by 3n19m470


unfortunatly part 1 was an epic failure... likely because i only posted from the first few chapters of the book. It doesn't get into his life until chapter 3.

Thank you for your reply though... I have plenty of threads here... feel free to browse through them.

Take care my friend

reply to post by Akragon

Originally posted by Akragon

In 1894 Nicolas Notovitch published a book called The Unknown Life of Christ. He was a Russian doctor who journeyed extensively throughout Afghanistan, India, and Tibet. Notovitch journeyed through the lovely passes of Bolan, over the Punjab, down into the arid rocky land of Ladak, and into the majestic Vale of Kashmir of the Himalayas. During one of his jouneys he was visiting Leh, the capital of Ladak, near where the buddhist convent Himis is. He had an accident that resulted in his leg being broken. This gave him the unscheduled opportunity to stay awhile at the Himis convent.

Notovitch learned, while he was there, that there existed ancient records of the life of Jesus Christ. In the course of his visit at the great convent, he located a Tibetan translation of the legend and carefully noted in his carnet de voyage over two hundred verses from the curious document known as "The Life of St. Issa."

He was shown two large yellowed volumes containing the biography of St. Issa. Notovitch enlisted a member of his party to translate the Tibetan volumes while he carefully noted each verse in the back pages of his journal.

When he returned to the western world there was much controversy as to the authenticity of the document. He was accused of creating a hoax and was ridiculed as an imposter. In his defense he encouraged a scientific expedition to prove the original tibetan documents existed.

One of his skeptics was Swami Abhedananda. Abhedananda journeyed into the arctic region of the Himalayas, determined to find a copy of the Himis manuscript or to expose the fraud. His book of travels, entitled Kashmir O Tibetti, tells of a visit to the Himis gonpa and includes a Bengali translation of two hundred twenty-four verses essentially the same as the Notovitch text. Abhedananda was thereby convinced of the authenticity of the Issa legend.

Fascinating topic, and the connections and similarities to Jesus own words are pretty hard to escape IMO.

I’ve watched I few Youtube videos on this subject, and the evidence seems to be pretty solid so far; and I noticed you’ve done a lot of research on this topic, yourself, Akragon, and you seem fairly convinced, that Issa was indeed Jesus, but do you know if there is any known date, as to when the “Himis manuscript” was written?


- JC

reply to post by windword


It occurred to me as i was researching the different views on st. Issa that perhaps the chief lama was not aware of notovitch's having made a copy in the first place and that, there must have been a reason for the monastery keeping a secret account of christ's life all to themselves and my guess is that the chief would have seen how the other sources of divine wisdom that had expanded to the global scale had only been hijacked by the man of money (sons of belial (?) ) and their meanings twisted to control people, and therefore would have denied its existence so that people DID write it off as hoax. They say the taller they are the harder they fall so all the terrible things that organised religion and the 'clergy' have caused is because the divine wisdom of all scripture has such a power to elevate a person that when starved of that wisdom... you see?