Cops Kill 1 Person a week with Tasers! Video(s)

Originally posted by SyphonX

Originally posted by Nspekta
Yes, tasers have their place and yes i agree, a lot of lives have been saved because of it, BUT, a person a week is killed because of it too, and that, at least to me, is unnaceptable.

If it were say, a monster, a boogieman killing 1 American every week, then scores of people would be recruited to slay the monster.

If it was a Muslim killing 1 American every week, then war would be declared, and/or vigilantes would attack innocent Muslim bystanders every week.

Awesome reply! Its funny these proponents of the taser won;t see it like that at all.. Im glad you put it into perspective.
This is santized by the msm and people who say that it doesnt matter that its killed a person a week, it saves people too. Granted, it has saved lives, no dispute there, but the fact that it also takes lives that is not taken into account, for the most part, by the people who defend their use
Thx again!

Originally posted by SyphonX

Originally posted by Liquesence
reply to post by Nspekta

 

While i am HUGE vocal critic of police procedure (and have posts to back it up), making a big deal that one person a day is killed with tasers kinda ignores the fact that a lot MORE people would die if cops used guns instead of tasers.

Tasers are used very frequently. In all the instances of their use, if guns were used, a lot more people would be dead.

(And yes, i DO think there are better methods of dealing with people than tasers, which seem to be the over-used yet convenient go-to compliance method by police)

edit on 6-6-2012 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)

Out of all the frequent threads lamenting police brutality on ATS, and videos elsewhere, all revolving around the usage of tasers, most if not all of the "popular" cases involve being tazed in a situation where no gun would be used otherwise.

Also, of cases where a death is involved (man resisting, or holding a weapon aside from firearm), a gun is used, not a taser. I've seen hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds (ad infinitum) videos and cases where cops choose to use their firearms instead of a taser if the person is violent. It has become something of a myth that tasers have replaced firearms in these cases, as it's often the cop will shoot if the man is wielding e.g. a bat.. under the pretense that if the taser doesn't work he will be charged immediately after, etc. As they sometimes don't, due to the requirement of having both leads penetrate the victim's skin for maximum effectiveness.

No, the majority of taser abuse cases stem from people being tazed for "mildly resisting" if even resisting at all. Or when pinned on the ground with knees in their backs and being tazed because they don't move their arm behind their back fast enough (hint: they can't move at all :unhint).

I'm not denying this. I agree. Hence, my initial post at being a huge critic of police procedure (and excessive use of force) involving "compliance," and the contradictory "justifications" for use (especially when it involves, say, tasing people for failure to comply when they are physically unable to comply).

However, the fact remains that more people would likely be dead if tasers were not used.

Originally posted by SyphonX

Originally posted by Liquesence

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by AgentX09
The device. can be fatal if used on a person with a heart condition.Yet,unbelievably,they call it a non-lethal weapon.

Actually no it cannot.

A taser does not affect the heart. Its neuromuscular only.

edit on 6-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Um, the heart is a muscle.

Nerves are connected.

Depending on where one is hit and the path of the shock, in can definitely lead to death.

And has.

This is after he claims everyone in the thread is spreading, as he put it, "propoganda".

How a bout you learn to read and go back and read my post before blatantly lying about it. I said RT is spreading propoganda.

Reading is your friend. You should try it sometime.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Your premise is that RT is pushing propaganda, with this story and/or other taser stories. The idea is that people talking about it is somehow disseminating said "propaganda", this is what you are implying.

I do not agree with your particular assessment of RT, not in this case anyway.

Originally posted by Liquesence
However, the fact remains that more people would likely be dead if tasers were not used.

That statement brings up all kinds of interesting probabilities.

Is the misconception of Tasers as a "safer" option leading to increased likelihood of deployment?

Are recidivism rates taken into account should a violent offender be Tased rather than shot?

Does the relative empathetic ease of deploying the Taser contribute to more lax attitudes to firearm use? They design them to operate similarly so the training can apply to either tool. Does that work both ways? Time on the range works toward both deployment of Taser and firearm. Does using the Taser and associating it with "safe" incapacitation corrupt the associates made with the firearm? Does it even matter?

It is an interesting statement.

Is it really even a fact?

Tasers are NOT non lethal. they are classified as Less lethal weapons. which according to the classification system. they have the potential to kill but not as much potential as a bullet or some other type of weapon. But they can still kill and can not be considered non-lethal.

A healthy person can die from being shocked by a taser. If the current hits at the exact time in between heart beat signals are sent (a millisecond window) it can in effect short circuit the heart and create instant cardiac arrest. It also doesn't take nearly as much power as one would expect to do this.

So yes tasers DO kill people every year where the only cause of death was the use of the taser.

Originally posted by SyphonX
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Your premise is that RT is pushing propaganda, with this story and/or other taser stories. The idea is that people talking about it is somehow disseminating said "propaganda", this is what you are implying.

I do not agree with your particular assessment of RT, not in this case anyway.

RT is reporting that the 18 year old died because of the Taser when in fact the coroner has not determined a cause of death yet. RT reporting his death as a result of the Taser is premature and incorrect since the evidence thus far doesnt support that conclusion.

RT has a habit of leaving out information when it doesnt support their goal. Your free to disagree all you want however I would suggest you check some of their stories and you will see what I am referring to. You know, that RT is pushing propoganda and not everyone in this thread as you claimed, incorrectly I might add.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere


Is the misconception of Tasers as a "safer" option leading to increased likelihood of deployment?

Absolutely.

Are recidivism rates taken into account should a violent offender be Tased rather than shot?

Probably not the offender's; yet, the recidivism rate of the officers is entirely another question. Perceived benefits of use very likely increase instances of use, which can be applied to most things, including guns (especially when the consequences are lax).

Does the relative empathetic ease of deploying the Taser contribute to more lax attitudes to firearm use?
They design them to operate similarly so the training can apply to either tool. Does that work both ways? Time on the range works toward both deployment of Taser and firearm. Does using the Taser and associating it with "safe" incapacitation corrupt the associates made with the firearm? Does it even matter?

I would say yes, it certainly does contribute to more lax attitude of firearm use. It would be interesting to address recidivism rates on the part of an officer after firearm use. The other questions i can't answer.

It is an interesting statement.

Is it really even a fact?

edit on 6-6-2012 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)

I did hesitate before using the term "fact." However, is it a fact that it is likely more people would be killed? I would argue yes.

If less alternatives exist for control of a situation then the use of what does exist would include those instances where the use has fallen to an alternative mean, in their absence.

Hmm he was also tazered a year ago.. I am sorry but being tazered twice in your life is not a coincidence. This guy is a criminal and he just happened to have bad luck this time. Not shedding a tear.


Gs

Originally posted by GermanShep
Hmm he was also tazered a year ago.. I am sorry but being tazered twice in your life is not a coincidence. This guy is a criminal and he just happened to have bad luck this time. Not shedding a tear.


Gs

So, essentially, you are saying its ok that he died potentially due to the taser? Hes a 'potential' criminal, so his life isnt worth anything? What i get from your statement is that one tase makes you a criminal, if you get tased again, then you might as well die? What about due process? If thats your opinion, then you must think that prisons and refirm programs are pointless? Correct me if im wrong

Ps, take a look at the article involving the pregnant lady within this thread.. She was tased 3 times, so in your eyes she is a criminal, regardless of what happened and it would be no big deal if she died, cause she is a criminal?

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by AgentX09
The device. can be fatal if used on a person with a heart condition.Yet,unbelievably,they call it a non-lethal weapon.

Actually no it cannot.

A taser does not affect the heart. Its neuromuscular only.

edit on 6-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Ahhh...yes. So true. Pumping 50000 volts through the human body doesn't have ANY effects on the heart. Nope...you're smart.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Actually no it cannot.

A taser does not affect the heart. Its neuromuscular only.

Odd you'd say that considering the heart is a neuromuscular junction.

Cardiac Muscle: The muscle of the heart surrounds four pumping
chambers. Contraction of cardiac muscle provides the impetus for the movement of blood through the pulmonary and systemic circulatory systems. Spontaneous cycling of an intrinsic pacemaker triggers each heartbeat (or contraction). However the autonomic nervous system and circulating hormones modulate the frequency of this activation.

link


You cant really say tasers affect neurons and muscle contraction and omit the heart. That's just silly.

Awesome! Thx for that!!

reply to post by Nspekta

A neuromuscular junction (NMJ) is the synapse or junction of the axon terminal of a motor neuron with the motor end plate, the highly-excitable region of muscle fiber plasma membrane responsible for initiation of action potentials across the muscle's surface, ultimately causing the muscle to contract. In vertebrates, the signal passes through the neuromuscular junction via the neurotransmitter acetylcholine.

A taser interrupts the brain signal for muscle control.

My obligatory thank you "Oath Keepers" for "fighting for the Constitution" and thank you soldiers for "fighting for our freedom."

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Nspekta

 

A neuromuscular junction (NMJ) is the synapse or junction of the axon terminal of a motor neuron with the motor end plate, the highly-excitable region of muscle fiber plasma membrane responsible for initiation of action potentials across the muscle's surface, ultimately causing the muscle to contract. In vertebrates, the signal passes through the neuromuscular junction via the neurotransmitter acetylcholine.

A taser interrupts the brain signal for muscle control.

and yet somehow, you still think that the shock of the taser doesn't or wouldn't impede the brain signal commanding it to beat ??
which part of the heart is not muscle receiving signals from the brain ??

for those interested in some statistics and the opinion of that Homeland Security group concerning this issue specifically ... check this

www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com...
The National Institute of Justice published a study in May that analyzed nearly 300 incidents of individuals who died after being shot with stun guns and found in the overwhelming majority of cases, the devices “played no role in the death.”
- snip -
In response to the report, Amnesty International, which counts more than 460 deaths following Taser use since June 2001, said the study highlights the need for strict rules on the use of shock weapons.

Amnesty was particularly concerned about the fact that the nearly 300 people who died after being stunned did not appear to present a serious threat at the time they were shocked.

EST was outlawed for more than one reason ... it certainly shouldn't be pocket accessible today.

Originally posted by Honor93
EST was outlawed for more than one reason ... it certainly shouldn't be pocket accessible today.

You mean ECT, electroconvulsive therapy, as it is now known today?

Where is that outlawed? In the US is practiced quite frequently and studies show it is very effective when applied properly.

ECT is safer than Tasers funny enough.

Taser International instructs users to avoid the chest area as to limit interaction with the heart and lungs, specifically citing the danger of cardiac arrest.

I suppose next time a cop wants to deploy one he should strap the target down, put in a bite guard, surround the bed with doctors and go straight for the head. After a consultation of course to determine if the target is physically and mentally fit to be tased. Doctors dont run about willy nilly blasting people in wheelchairs or the elderly or kids or pregnant women with their ECT machines though.

I really don't believe that tasers are the problem. The problem is that cops are more like thugs every day and they aren't trained to use them properly. They have a shiny new toy and can't wait to use it on someone. The videos that I have seen leading to deaths involve multiple officers and/or multiple uses of the same taser for no reason. When someone gets tased their muscles lock up, so by telling someone to stop resisting and to continually hit them with charge after charge is ridiculous. These cops should be charged with murder every time they misuse a taser and it leads to someones death. All to often when the cop should stop and try and asess the situation the taser becomes a first response. Instead of asking what is going on, they would rather shoot first and then ask questions, and since the taser is classified as "non-leathal" they think they can abuse this weapon and get away with it. So far, for the most part, they have.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Originally posted by AgentX09
The device. can be fatal if used on a person with a heart condition.Yet,unbelievably,they call it a non-lethal weapon.


Actually no it cannot.

A taser does not affect the heart. Its neuromuscular only.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

really,,,,,,,,uh,,, maybe you better read this then



www.newscientist.com...


new scientist
headline-----Taser stun gun linked to heart attacks


important statement-----In each case, Zipes analysed how long each shock lasted and cardiac responses measured by paramedics, when available (Circulation, DOI: 10.1161/circulationaha.112.097584 or (link tracking not allowed)/stundeath). He found that 50,000-volt stuns to the chest can induce irregular heartbeats that lead to cardiac arrest.


also---- go figure,,,,,, i don't doubt this would be there stance---------
The weapon's maker, Taser International of Scottsdale, Arizona, is disputing Zipes's peer-reviewed findings, saying there are "key facts that contradict the role of the Taser device" in all eight cases

reply to post by thisguyrighthere
actually no, i meant what i said.

www.sciencemuseum.org.uk...
Doctors still occasionally use a controversial technique called electroconvulsive shock therapy (ECT), developed in the 1930s, to treat severe depression. In ECT a strong jolt of electricity is applied directly to the scalp - under general anaesthetic, otherwise it would be too painful.

so, do tell, when do LEOs apply tasers to the scalp or utilize any anaesthetic ??
barbaric would be a more appropriate descriptive of the LEOs use of tasers.

ECT is a current but questionable and controversial form of behavioral manipulation.

ECT may very well be safer than a taser so what's that tell ya ??
trained professionals use ECT while goons abuse tasers.

if ECT applications killed one person per week, just how long do you think it would remain touted as an "effective" therapy ??
nevermind, cops are not skilled, trained or qualified to apply such technologies.

cops shouldn't have a "want" to employ any such device without proper protections ... ie, bite guard, EKG monitoring, support personnel and medical necessity.

perhaps we should just give the AKs to the Drs and let them fire away at tumors too, right?

Doctors dont run about willy nilly blasting people in wheelchairs or the elderly or kids or pregnant women with their ECT machines though.

true but LEOs do ... see any story of the last 90 days.