Cops Kill 1 Person a week with Tasers! Video(s)

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Actually no it cannot.

A taser does not affect the heart. Its neuromuscular only.

Odd you'd say that considering the heart is a neuromuscular junction.

Cardiac Muscle: The muscle of the heart surrounds four pumping
chambers. Contraction of cardiac muscle provides the impetus for the movement of blood through the pulmonary and systemic circulatory systems. Spontaneous cycling of an intrinsic pacemaker triggers each heartbeat (or contraction). However the autonomic nervous system and circulating hormones modulate the frequency of this activation.

link

You cant really say tasers affect neurons and muscle contraction and omit the heart. That's just silly.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Nspekta

 

While I applaud the effort to do some research in police take down methods, you are missing the key factor that the determination on use of force is the officers decision to make based on the circumstances at hand.

Hindsight 20/20 is not allowed when reviewing a use of force. Its what the officer perceoved at the moment he used force, and that is the guideline the US Supreme Court established.. Secondly whats the departmental policy for that agency when it comes to use of taser compared to the policy of going hands on with an individual?

Simply doing a google search does not give you the information required to make an informed decision on this one incident.

Again there is no cause of death determined yet RT is already stating its from the Taser.. As I said they make it up as they go.

edit on 6-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Obviously we are going to agree to disagree on many things here,

We can both agree that the cause of death has not been determined, And i will watch the video again, and if you are right that they are reporting the cause of death as the taser, that is wrong, then we can agree on two things!

I still feel that tasers should not be classified as non-lethal, and there should be harsher penalties for cops who willy-nilly use them instead of getting their hands dirty, like they were TRAINED to do!

Originally posted by Nspekta

I still feel that tasers should not be classified as non-lethal,

As of 2005:

Taser International, which makes weapons that fire up to 50,000 volts and are used to incapacitate a person, also said it would no longer claim in its consumer literature that its guns "left no lasting effects".

Rather they are now

"are more effective and safer than other use-of-force options".

link

Non-lethal is a dead term. It has been "less-than lethal" for a while now.

It's both funny and sad that this is still a topic of contention 7 years after Taser International admitted their device can and does kill.

Originally posted by Nspekta
Obviously we are going to agree to disagree on many things here,

Thats the beauty of freedom.. Disagree on this, agree on something else...

Originally posted by Nspekta
We can both agree that the cause of death has not been determined, And i will watch the video again, and if you are right that they are reporting the cause of death as the taser, that is wrong, then we can agree on two things!

They are waiting for the tox report to come back. The article I linked discussing it made note that the 18 year old who died was trying to lose weight. Before we blame the taser we should find out if any diet drugs were being used. Some of those can affect the heart as well.

Originally posted by Nspekta
I still feel that tasers should not be classified as non-lethal, and there should be harsher penalties for cops who willy-nilly use them instead of getting their hands dirty, like they were TRAINED to do!

The media are the ones who classify a taser, along with handcuffs, pepper spray, bean bag rounds, rubber bullets etc as non lethal. Law Enforcement classifies them all as less than lethal because there is always the possibility of death occuring during the use, whether from the item itself, a reaction to an item, a mix between an item and something in their system etc etc etc.

Classifying our tools as non lethal is like classifying a car as non lethal.

As for the comment on willy nilly use and hands on again we need to see the policy the department has in place. One of the first agencies I worked for required the use of a Taser before going hands on. The mindset was is if the person is going to resist / fight, there is no need to put the officer into physical danger if there is another method that can be used first (obviously talking is priority, im talking after that failed).

Also food for thought - Everytime something like this makes the news we have the bulk of the information. People seem to ignore the fact that when the incident occured, the police have no knowledge of who they are dealing with, if they are on drugs / mentally imbalanced / EDP / suffering a breakdown etc etc etc. We act on what is present at the time. I cant stress that enough that when reviewing use of force it must be viewed in the context it occured in and not 20/20 hindsight.

In this case the following occured -
Reports of large groups involved in a fight
reports of a gun being involved
Police arriving only to have an individual, fists balled up, coming at them who is refusing commands to stop.

Is he armed?
Is he not armed?
Is he wounded and in shock?
Is he involved and wanting to kill someone?
Is he not involved and emotionally disturbed not knowing what he is doing?
Is he EDP and looking for suicide by cop?

Lots of questions to ask and answer in a split second.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
It's both funny and sad that this is still a topic of contention 7 years after Taser International admitted their device can and does kill.

Tasers kill as many people as guns kill people, which is to say they dont. The person behind the device is responsible for that action, as is the person that is being dealt with at the time they are deployed.

reply to post by Xcathdra


True enough.

It's just disingenuous to position Tasers as a safe alternative to guns or baton beatings. The damage caused is different from the damage caused by batons which is different from the damage caused by guns.

I dont know if its ignorance or intentional obfuscation but Tasers can kill just like batons or guns.

Everyone needs to accept that reality. The cops, the public, the politicians.

"Dont tase me bro!" is about as funny as a baton to the head or a bullet in the leg.

I honestly feel Human are incapable of enforcing law upon each other without corruption.

I do believe instead of UAV, bare with me I know I'm about to get all NWO-ish. Machines should enforce the law, mainly because they don't have emotional defects or suffer from things like divorce and or PTSD, or most importantly anger or greed. No feeling of self righteousness.


Obviously it's absurdly hard for Humans to not let such things cross over when they wear a badge.

reply to post by Xcathdra

How about people complying with verbal commands instead of fighting / resisting the police?

I totally agree with you.
For all the people screaming police brutality,they seem to forget the rest of the parts in the videos that get posted here,where they don't listen to the simple commands before getting tazed.
Even when someone is acting like a jackass....people still ignore it and scream brutality.

I have had many run ins with the law and am always compliant....I have never been beat,tazed or pepper sprayed.
Imagine that??

There are alot of keyboard warriors who don't use logic or reason when coming to a conclusion.
That second video says it all....it looks to me like he was not listening when told to stand up.(since we didn't see all that happened I am speculating)
Even the people across the street said "its about time"

We didn't get to see the what actually happened before he got tazed so that video is showing an agenda and has some spin....we didn't get to see the whole scenario.

Also,I am not saying police brutality doesn't happen...I am just pointing out what I see in many videos.

reply to post by Xcathdra


This is why they need to use the training and techniques they learned in the academy's.. otherwise whats the point? Might as well just taser EVERYONE whenever any issue comes along.

How did they deal with people before tasers?!?! Oh right, they used proper takedown and subduing procedures..

The wrong cops with a taser = lazy. I would say that most cops wouldnt use it unless they ahd to, and yes split second decisions must be made, but again, THEY ARE TRAINED FOR THAT! If they weren;t, they wouldnt have made it out of the academy, correct?

Take for example, the pregnant lady, in her THIRD Trimester!, (see earlier posts) that got tased three times during a traffic stop. They had no regard for the welfare of the woman, let alone her baby. They just tased her over and over again, cause its easier than following procedure and tactics they learned.

I guess what I'm saying is, there needs to be a better learning process maybe? Maybe the guns needs to be a lesser chrage? Maybe only certain officers with the correct training, including s psych test, can carry them to ensure that no or as little amount of abuse is used?

reply to post by Xcathdra


You are right , guns and tasers dont kill people, Police do. They do know that these tasers are less than lethal and they also it takes a lot less personal energy to taser someone so they do it. You say they dont have the luxury to hindsight and see if they used too much force- so they dont bother with it. They do what they want then say the situation called for it. With all the crap we are all seeing everywhere about the corruption of police and gov officials why am I to believe what any police say to me is a "lawful" order?


Oh, then its my fault I didn't just bow down to this armed thug barking orders of force without having to prove he is lawful. Yeah! Again my fault right.

You said it yourself guns and tasers dont kill people. But why , oh why do so many police get away with murder? They will detain an entire intersection under suspicion of the presence of a bank robber but they will do NOTHING to clean up their "own" houses.
Also 3 members of my blood-born family are police and my best friend's father is chp so please do not think i am just some kid that had a bad run in with police. I have dealt with them, good and bad, for nearly my entire life.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Nspekta
Something needs to be done..

How about people complying wih verbal commands instead of fighting / resisting the police?

Whoaaaaaaa......

You cant honestly believe ALL police are saints. You cant put it all on peoples failure to comply with police demands.

Some police dont give a f@@k if you comply or not.

I would rather have police officers using tasers then them using guns to subdue someone. There are violent people out there that Police have to deal with every day. What do you want them to use? squirt guns?

People complain when they use guns so they use tasers, then they complain they use tasers so they use pepper spray, then they complain about that. Soon our officers will be running around with wiffle ball bats.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by AgentX09
The device. can be fatal if used on a person with a heart condition.Yet,unbelievably,they call it a non-lethal weapon.

Actually no it cannot.

A taser does not affect the heart. Its neuromuscular only.

edit on 6-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Um, the heart is a muscle.

Nerves are connected.

Depending on where one is hit and the path of the shock, in can definitely lead to death.

And has.

Originally posted by Sol23
I would rather have police officers using tasers then them using guns to subdue someone. There are violent people out there that Police have to deal with every day. What do you want them to use? squirt guns?

People complain when they use guns so they use tasers, then they complain they use tasers so they use pepper spray, then they complain about that. Soon our officers will be running around with wiffle ball bats.

edit on 6-6-2012 by Sol23 because: (no reason given)

I think the point here is that SOME police abuse their powers. Its not so much the tool in their hand. Moreso the police using the tool. Some cops are great, and some are evil. Just like all men. Some are good some are bad.

Some would use the wiffle ball bat accordingly, while some would come out swinging regardles wrong or right. Then there is the last cop who would make every attempt to use the wiffle ball bat on every person encountered.

Ehhhhh..... Police give them the benifit of doubt. Their job is not easy. Co operate but if you have to , protect yourself. After all he/she is just a man.

reply to post by Nspekta


While i am HUGE vocal critic of police procedure (and have posts to back it up), making a big deal that one person a week is killed with tasers kinda ignores the fact that a lot MORE people would die if cops used guns instead of tasers.

Tasers are used very frequently. In all the instances of their use, if guns were used, a lot more people would be dead.

(And yes, i DO think there are better methods of dealing with people than tasers, which seem to be the over-used yet convenient go-to compliance method by police)

Originally posted by PLASIFISK

Originally posted by Sol23
I would rather have police officers using tasers then them using guns to subdue someone. There are violent people out there that Police have to deal with every day. What do you want them to use? squirt guns?

People complain when they use guns so they use tasers, then they complain they use tasers so they use pepper spray, then they complain about that. Soon our officers will be running around with wiffle ball bats.

edit on 6-6-2012 by Sol23 because: (no reason given)

I think the point here is that SOME police abuse their powers. Its not so much the tool in their hand. Moreso the police using the tool. Some cops are great, and some are evil. Just like all men. Some are good some are bad.

Some would use the wiffle ball bat accordingly, while some would come out swinging regardles wrong or right. Then there is the last cop who would make every attempt to use the wiffle ball bat on every person encountered.

Ehhhhh..... Police give them the benifit of doubt. Their job is not easy. Co operate but if you have to , protect yourself. After all he/she is just a man.

Well said repose. I do agree with you. A weapon is only as dangerous as the person holding it.

Originally posted by Liquesence

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by AgentX09
The device. can be fatal if used on a person with a heart condition.Yet,unbelievably,they call it a non-lethal weapon.

Actually no it cannot.

A taser does not affect the heart. Its neuromuscular only.

edit on 6-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Um, the heart is a muscle.

Nerves are connected.

Depending on where one is hit and the path of the shock, in can definitely lead to death.

And has.

This is after he claims everyone in the thread is spreading, as he put it, "propoganda".

Originally posted by Liquesence
reply to post by Nspekta

 

While i am HUGE vocal critic of police procedure (and have posts to back it up), making a big deal that one person a day is killed with tasers kinda ignores the fact that a lot MORE people would die if cops used guns instead of tasers.

Tasers are used very frequently. In all the instances of their use, if guns were used, a lot more people would be dead.

(And yes, i DO think there are better methods of dealing with people than tasers, which seem to be the over-used yet convenient go-to compliance method by police)

edit on 6-6-2012 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)

The thread is about the amount of people killed by tasers, which works out to an average of one per week.. the huge deal about one case that has been discussed in the thread is an example of why two sides disagree on this issue.
Yes, tasers have their place and yes i agree, a lot of lives have been saved because of it, BUT, a person a week is killed because of it too, and that, at least to me, is unnaceptable.

Originally posted by Liquesence
reply to post by Nspekta

 

While i am HUGE vocal critic of police procedure (and have posts to back it up), making a big deal that one person a day is killed with tasers kinda ignores the fact that a lot MORE people would die if cops used guns instead of tasers.

Tasers are used very frequently. In all the instances of their use, if guns were used, a lot more people would be dead.

(And yes, i DO think there are better methods of dealing with people than tasers, which seem to be the over-used yet convenient go-to compliance method by police)

edit on 6-6-2012 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)

Out of all the frequent threads lamenting police brutality on ATS, and videos elsewhere, all revolving around the usage of tasers, most if not all of the "popular" cases involve being tazed in a situation where no gun would be used otherwise.

Also, of cases where a death is involved (man resisting, or holding a weapon aside from firearm), a gun is used, not a taser. I've seen hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds (ad infinitum) videos and cases where cops choose to use their firearms instead of a taser if the person is violent. It has become something of a myth that tasers have replaced firearms in these cases, as it's often the cop will shoot if the man is wielding e.g. a bat.. under the pretense that if the taser doesn't work he will be charged immediately after, etc. As they sometimes don't, due to the requirement of having both leads penetrate the victim's skin for maximum effectiveness.

No, the majority of taser abuse cases stem from people being tazed for "mildly resisting" if even resisting at all. Or when pinned on the ground with knees in their backs and being tazed because they don't move their arm behind their back fast enough (hint: they can't move at all :unhint).

Originally posted by Nspekta
Yes, tasers have their place and yes i agree, a lot of lives have been saved because of it, BUT, a person a week is killed because of it too, and that, at least to me, is unnaceptable.

If it were say, a monster, a boogieman killing 1 American every week, then scores of people would be recruited to slay the monster.

If it was a Muslim killing 1 American every week, then war would be declared, and/or vigilantes would attack innocent Muslim bystanders every week.