All chinese aircrafts are pathetic copies

Originally posted by waynos
BTW How exactly did America steal our thunder and cast our Empire into ignominy? Thats a new one.

Waynos, If you were in america we would call you lameos!
Every thing is new for you now isn't it? NO wonder there!!

Originally posted by waynos
If we didn't recognize it for what it was then how come a British newspaper coined the term 'Blitzkrieg'? Smartarse.
Its not as if we could go "Oh, they're using that Blitzkrieg thing again, right oh" and just stop it.

British papers could have named it but by nature british mentality is such that you guys thought about it at tea and then went on to play a spot of golf!

They overwhwelmed us and if it wasn't for the existence of the channel they wouldn't have stopped at France. Why do you think we don't know this, are you retarded?

No but you are showing many signs of mental inadequacy!
You could have gathered all your allies and held them back and secured atleast a small landing zone!
Also, why did the BEF go to the maginot line they could have entrenched themselves near the Belgian border if they knew that there was this huge gap in the line!
Don't tell me you couldn't convince the belgians to do that!

What you claimed, if you can remember that far back, was that the Spanish civil war was a rehearsal for Blitzkreig. It clearly was not. It isn't big or clever to change the argument to suit yourself when you realise you have lost.

I said it was a place to try out their BlitzKreig tactics not a rehersal !If you read more you would have known what I was talking about but you choose to live with your ignorance and protest blindly.

I am perfectly aware of the failings of the British and French forces in 1939. It was you who started the whole row off by saying that there was no real fight put up against the Germans before America entered the war. Several people have pointed out to you Allied victories before America came along but you also fail to realise that 'losing' isn't the same as 'not trying'.

I was just trying to bring back and state the failings of the British and French forces in 1939 to prove that you had no effective counter to the NAZI war machine.
Don't claim that you defeated the gemans in battle of briton and you would next go and route them from Europe! You fought only an air battle with them in the battle of briton not a full scale land war.

Not only that but you claim that America allied itself to Europe in both world wars. Where do you imagine Germany is, Africa?

What have you been smoking ? The only thing I can tell you is ' weed is a killer !'Get straight man!'and also 'Crack is whack!'
Am i responding to a delirious raving psychotic? I have never said that America was fighting WW1!

Waynos, If you were in america we would call you lameos!
Every thing is new for you now isn't it? NO wonder there!!

Or "I have nothing intelligent to reply with so I am just going to call you names" Oh dear IAF, what are you like?

British papers could have named it but by nature british mentality is such that you guys thought about it at tea and then went on to play a spot of golf!

This time a tired national stereotype makes up for the lack of a counterpoint, very sad.

No but you are showing many signs of mental inadequacy!
You could have gathered all your allies and held them back and secured atleast a small landing zone!
Also, why did the BEF go to the maginot line they could have entrenched themselves near the Belgian border if they knew that there was this huge gap in the line!
Don't tell me you couldn't convince the belgians to do that!

Do you mean our Empire forces from Australia, India and the like? Well, with your superior brainpower can you tell me how we were going to get these 'allies' into position quickly enough, get Scotty to beam them in?

Also Belgium refused to co-operate with Britain and France in an attempt to appease Hitler, Allied Forces WERE positioned on the French side of the border, they were defeated and pushed back.

I said it was a place to try out their BlitzKreig tactics not a rehersal !

That line speaks for itself, Idiot

Don't claim that you defeated the gemans in battle of briton and you would next go and route them from Europe! You fought only an air battle with them in the battle of briton not a full scale land war.

Er, we DID defeat the Germans in the Battle of Britain, you spanner, and if you had the wit to look back throught the thread you would see that I posted that after this victory we would have faced a stalemate situation with Germany so now who's being presumptious?

Also can you explain to dim old me how 'only' an air battle is somehow less worthy than a 'full scale land war'. We dealt with the situation before us did we not? We did not choose the battlefield, it was dictated by the circumstances.

What have you been smoking ? The only thing I can tell you is ' weed is a killer !'Get straight man!'and also 'Crack is whack!'
Am i responding to a delirious raving psychotic? I have never said that America was fighting WW

Yet again, a total defeat is met by insults, you are a glass yank after all!

Maybe drugs are addling your brain? after all this is a quote from you on page 9 of the thread, go check it out;

America sided with Europe through ww1 and 2 .

So having established that you did say it the point was the thing about America having 'sided with Europe' you thick colonial. Germany is where exactly?


[edit on 20-11-2004 by waynos]

I reckon it's a game-playing troll Waynos.

Clearly he/she has bought totally into the idea of Blitzkrieg as a mere extension of the German speed tactics of 1870 or the 'Stormtrooper' tactics of 1918 (like the idea of speed and mobility on a battelfield was new....cooo, do you think, in which millenia? ) .....

.....and the fact that 'Blitzkreig' became a purely 'generic' term for all and any WW2 German assaults seems to have escaped him/her entirely.

Obviously our 'challenged' friend has no clue about Guderian and the formal doctrines of true and actual 'Blitzkreig' developed in secret in Russia in the mid - late 1920's into the early 1930's.

.....and the fact it all came from British theories (sadly passed over and ignored by the 'top brass' of the time - early 1920's) has yet to get a mention.
Captain Sir Basil Liddell Hart and General John Fuller actually were referred to and admired by Guderian as some of his most significant and inspiring sources for his ideas.

In actual fact true Blitzkreig (in accordance with Guderian's doctrines) is reckoned to have only been employed rarely (Poland mainly).
web.mit.edu...

I too note the quick change of tack over Spain (and the utter lack of references to support his/her claims in anything beyond the mere superficial).

Ditto with the BEF.
His/her idea of the entire commonwealth forces moving to the UK & France in time to defeat the German attack is risible in the extreme.

Clearly this person knows little and when challenged on a point he/she can't answer merely pretends he/she meant something else or changes the subject and begins abusing.

This isn't a debate it's rather pathetic trolling and a totally unacceptable revolting laughing at and deriding the brave dead.








[edit on 20-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

I did consider that he was doing it on purpose, I think I said pretty much the same earlier on but I have to confess that once I got going I was enjoying the ride

Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
We have our own trainer FTC-2000 while indian airforce's training is so bad that they are called the flying coffin and they had to buy some british trainer recently. See again, they can't make crap.

Firstly, I would really like to see china do an air-exercise with the Indians and secondly that would make you less conceited.
They have better pilots than you guys have--No doubt about that.
Thier accident rate is very high and understanably so because their pilots make a transition from sub sonic trainers to a super sonic aircraft, i would like to see your airmen do that and find out how many of them make it!
Also do you remember your guys actually crashed into an american recon "buzz" if that signifies your engagement strategies then your pilots need better combat training. BTW even if your pilots crashed they wouldn't publish it would they? being authoritarian state and all.
You guys have a numerical advantage but so did the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Briton , numerical advantage doesn't means air-supremacy!
They problem with comparing PLAA with any other major air force is that we don't exactly know the scope and power of airforce so all comprisions are nothing but speculative.

thank you thank you!! Sense at last!!
Ive said all of this before, maybe more than 5 times, but it doesn't seem to have any effect!!
I rest my case!!
I hope this will stifle any more "flying coffin" , "PLAAF way better than IAF","the chinese will win any military conflict handsdown etc etc..." taunts from you chicoms!! You heard it from a neutral!!

And btw IAF101 IMHO you should kind of tone down the WWII rhetoric..lots of people died in that war, including Indians (above 60000) and there's no point tainting that for any reason....I respect and honor all men who died to protect fredom, americans, british, french and IMHO they all contributed to their fullest capacity..

And to end on a comical note!!...
W4rlrd like you said it yourself,

Indians can't make crap!!

I wholeheartedly agree.. that honor is solely bestowed on the chinese at least in Stealth Spy's opinion!!

[edit on 20-11-2004 by Daedalus3]

OK, I hope we are seeing the light now. Insults of this manner will be dealt with. Let's discuss this topic without them.

^^^^hehe its kindve odd but I observed that after mod intrepidss post here this thread died!!
We're all a bunch of vicious insult spitting cobras aye?

Yes, the crashing jackboot of the moderator crushed the life out of it

I pretty much said my piece, and probably deserved my warning for allowing myself to join IAF 101 at his particular level, If you take the insults out of my posts the point is still pretty well made I think. I just keep looking back to see if he's thought of anything new

First off,
ITS BEEN GREAT FUN DOING THIS ! Seriously !
Secondly,
It would have been even greater fun carrying on, though it would have to end sooner or later!Fortunately the Moderator ended this in time!
It was funny to see the thread being carried completely off from what it was intended to be about!
LASTLY,
I don't have any ill feelings towards the british about WW2 or the BEF or any thing in perticular, just trying to infuriate people!
Childish I know, but FUN nonetheless!

Cheers WAYNOS, SMIKLE..whatever!

A roudn of beers for all!!
On the house!!

Originally posted by IAF101
LASTLY,
I don't have any ill feelings towards the british about WW2 or the BEF or any thing in perticular, just trying to infuriate people!
Childish I know, but FUN nonetheless!

Cheers WAYNOS, SMIKLE..whatever!

- Back at you IAF 101.

(the 'sociopathic' tag was a bit of a hint, btw! )

excellent

Its great to let your hair down once in a while, and who doesn't enjoy a good row

here are a few pics of the Israeli LAVI that china copied
LAVI













-----------------
and J-10

I think its fairly well established that they didn't copy it, they bought it. In fact they are possibly more capable than India as the changes that took place between the Lavi and J-10 are far more extensive than any mods India has made to the Su-30, as the photo's illustrate.


^^^^great memories of a brilliant argument in the posts above

Ah, the good old days

I thought it was already agreed that J-10 is indigenous and simply integrates some western and isreali technologies into the airframe

just needs a slight avionics upgrade to be a really top notch fighter, probably going to be adressed later this year when europe drops it's arms embargo





looks nothing like Lavi

To me the basic design also resembles the F-16. Maybe just me.

China copied Aircraft:

Guess its agood thing their nukes are not.
Dallas

Originally posted by waynos
I think its fairly well established that they didn't copy it, they bought it. In fact they are possibly more capable than India as the changes that took place between the Lavi and J-10 are far more extensive than any mods India has made to the Su-30, as the photo's illustrate.

India hardly made any modifications to the MKI, they just recieved it as it came from russia.

The indian contribution is more towards the aveonics section
Mission Computer
Display Processor
Radar Computer
Radar Warning Receiver - High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) called Tarang Mk II or Tranquil - manufactured by BEL. Tarang was originally developed for the MiG-21 Bison but later adapted for most IAF aircraft including the MiG-27ML.
Integrated ommunication equipment - HAL
Radar Altimeter - HAL
Programmable Signal Processor has been developed by the LRDE

full : Su-30 MKI Indian contribution

Besides, when did india ever claim that they made the Su-30 MKI ????

China did not buy the lavi, the copied it. even chinese sources admit it

Originally posted by Lucretius



looks nothing like Lavi

are you blind ??

check the pics i posted before your post