All chinese aircrafts are pathetic copies

read my first post on the J-10, Lavi copy, etc.

China initially wanted to reverse engineer a Pakistani F-16, but since they were unscessful, the Lavi was the best bet

Hmm.... when did you Indians design anything besides your LCA which is currently using a P&W Engine although it was designed around the Kaveri engine?

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Hmm.... when did you Indians design anything besides your LCA which is currently using a P&W Engine although it was designed around the Kaveri engine?

Surya 1 and 2 : India's ICBM's

India's indegenous aircraft carrier

India Developing Hyperplane

India's ASTRA BVRAAM

Ah...ok....what about aircraft which have been designed to the stage of the J-10 besides the LCA?

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Ah...ok....what about aircraft which have been designed to the stage of the J-10 besides the LCA?

the Maruth >> HF-24 >> hindustan Fighter 24 >> 1961 to 1985




The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited HF-24 Marut fighter-bomber was built in India. The Marut featured a small swept wing and excellent maneuverability. It had limited combat potential because of the low engine power, and could barely reach supersonic speeds in level flight. The first prototype flew on June 17, 1961, with a total of 147 aircraft built, including 18 two-seat HF-24 Mk 1Ts.
Delay in availability of the HF-24 Marut for the ground attack fighter mission led, in 1966, to the Indian Air Force [IAF evaluating and the Government purchasing the Sukhoi Su-7BM, deliveries of which from the Soviet Union were to commence in March 1968. As the sixties translated to the seventies, the IAF consolidated its expansion plans, attaining its 45-squadron goal. Obsolescent equipment was steadily withdrawn to be succeeded by increasing numbers of HF-24s, MiG-21FLs and SU-7BMs.


Indian planners anticipate that any future war with Pakistan will be a high-intensity, short-duration affair (partly because of diplomatic intervention by third parties). Consequently, the IAF is developing a powerful tactical strike force to facilitate rapid advances by ground elements. Offensive air support will be furnished by MiG-23BN and MiG-27 squadrons, augmented by the MiG-21M Fishbed-J and Ajeet (an upgraded version of the British Gnat). As of the mid-1980s aging Hawker Hunter Mk 56 and Sukhoi Su-7 fighter-bombers were being removed from the inventory.

The HF-24 Marut served until 1985. The various development programmes to enhance the operational performance of the HF-24 Marut by HAL were abandoned for one reason or the other. The Government of India concluded an agreement with the Soviet Union for the MiG-23 variable-sweep fighter to meet the Tactical Air Strike Aircraft (TASA) requirement. Four squadrons, then flying the HF-24 and Sukhoi Su-7 were re-equipped with the MiG-23BN.

Specifications
Year: 1961
Crew: 1
Engines: 2 * 2200kg HAL/R.R. Orpheus Mk.703
Wing Span: 9.00m
Length: 15.87m
Height: 3.60m
Wing Area: 28m2
Empty Weight: 6195kg
Max. Weight: 10908kg
Speed: 1128km/h
Ceiling: 13750m
Range: 800km
Armament: 4*g30mm 48*r68mm 1814kg


www.fas.org...

[edit on 8-2-2005 by Stealth Spy]

J-10 (Project 10/Project 8810?) is a multi-role single-engine fighter being developed by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) and 611 Institute. It has been selected by PLAAF as the next generation fighter to replace the obsolete J-7 fighter and Q-5 attack aircraft. The aircraft appears to have an Su-27 style nose and retangular air intake, an AL-31F type engine, twin nosewheels, and a distinct low-visibility camouflage color scheme. The aircraft also has a large vertical tail plus twin F-16 style ventral stablizers believed to provide greater stability at high AoA. Its fuselage looks considerably longer compared to Israeli Lavi. However its bubble canopy appears less elevated than that of F-16, suggesting the pilot has yet to possess a true 360° view. Unlike J-7E with double-delta wings, it appears to have a pair of inverted gull wings (i.e. the inner portion extends slightly downward, while the outer portion extends flat). Two red dummy PL-8 AAMs are regularly seen carried under the wing as well.

The J-10 project was started in the mid-80s based on the experience (tailless delta wing and canard foreplanes) with J-9 which was cancelled earlier in favor of the less risky J-7C/MIG-21MF project. An early model of J-10 revealed a Mirage 2000 style intake with a center shock cone for better high speed performance and a Lavi style tail section, suggesting a possible connection with the cancelled Israeli fighter (however this was firmly denied by both parties). The change indicates that J-10 has gone through at least one major redesign in its 10-year development period from the initial conventional layout (as an air-superiority fighter) to the latest semi-stealthy design (as a multi-role fighter). This change may reflect a shift of its potential adversaries from former Soviet MiG-29/ Su-27 to current American F-15/F-16 after end of the Cold War.

The new design will certainly be fitted with advanced avionics including a "glass cockpit" (1 wide-angle HUD + 2 monochrome MFD + 1 color MFD), HMS, HOTAS, GPS/INS, air data computer, RWR, digital quadruplex FBW, digital fuel management system, 1553B databus, and a new PD fire-control radar (search distance 52~148km, track 8 targets simutaneously), which can be either Israeli Elta EL/M 2035, Russian Phazotron Zhuk derivative (Zhemchoug?), or the indigenous JL-10A from LETRI (with technical assistance from Phazotron?). A variety of newly developed air-to-air (e.g. PL-8 short-range IR-guided AAM and PL-11/PL-12/SD-10 medium-range radar-guided AAM) and air-to-surface weapons (e.g. C-701 TV-guided ASM & LGBs) are also expected to be carried under 11 hardpoints. Although it was believed to be powered initially by a 27,560lb/12,500kg thrust AL-31FN turbofan, a modified AL-31F which itself powers Su-27/J-11, Russia reportedly had denied China the license to produce the engine locally. As the result, an indigenous engine (WS-10A?) may be fitted later when the serial production starts.

Some US military analysts believe that J-10 could pose a serious challenge to F/A-18E in terms of maneuverability. Some specifications of J-10 are (speculated): empty weight 9,750kg, max TO weight 18,500kg, internal fuel 4,500kg, external load 4,500kg, g load -3~+9, max speed Mach 2.0 (high altitude)/Mach 1.2 (sea level), TO distance

check this out

Collaboration between China and Israel on fighter technology began in the early 1980's and full-scale co-operation was underway by 1984. After the 1987 cancellation of the Lavi programme, its design was taken over by CAC, and IAI carried on with the development of avionic equipment.

this is from a chinese source , www.sinodefence.com

If you mean what you say,then India would also be copying the Su-30 MKI . If you still haven't figured it out, all the planes you mentioned are just upgraded planes manufactured on Chinese soil with licenses. So yeah,go ahead,maybe i'll start a post about the Su-30 MKI being copied by the Indians

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
check this out

Collaboration between China and Israel on fighter technology began in the early 1980's and full-scale co-operation was underway by 1984. After the 1987 cancellation of the Lavi programme, its design was taken over by CAC, and IAI carried on with the development of avionic equipment.

this is from a chinese source , www.sinodefence.com

Yes they took the Isreali technology... however it was simply incorporated with their own. The j-9 project (now cancelled), which developed into the j-10 had been running for years prior

The J-10 is a mishmash of many different concepts and to say that it is a sole copy of the lavi would be quite a misunderstanding.

Who cares? China will be a barren wasteland n 50 years. Everyone has male children and kill thier girl children. All males and no females equals extinction.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Who cares? China will be a barren wasteland n 50 years. Everyone has male children and kill thier girl children. All males and no females equals extinction.

can you honestly justify that comment?

Yup
64.233.183.104...:Q1DSnovPlQ0J:www.prb.org/presentations/ShortageofGirlsinChina.ppt+china+birth+rate+sexes&hl=en

Therefore, sex ratio imbalance in marriage ages improved from 1964 to 2000.

Current PRC Policies to Combat Son Preference

Laws giving girls and women equal rights with males.

Propaganda and consciousness-raising slogans about the equal value and contributions of females and males.

Laws outlawing infanticide, prenatal sex identification, and sex-selective abortion.

Policies in most provinces allowing rural couples to have two children, or a second child if the first is a girl.

Some localities have preferential policies for couples with daughters but no son, for example modest social security guarantees for the parents.

So you see,that is only part of the picture. From 2000 onwards, the rights of girls and females have actually became BETTER.

I think thread was extremely distasteful..if a copy proves itself to be worthy in combat then its just fine...

Originally posted by Daedalus3
I think thread was extremely distasteful..if a copy proves itself to be worthy in combat then its just fine...

Agreed Daedalus3.
The only problem to this is that when was the last time that China actually had an aircraft that was battle proven or tested against other aircraft in say, air-combat simulations or air excercises versus another nation, etc.?




seekerof

none really...but then that doesn't necessarily mean they suck..or that they rock either..

Originally posted by Seekerof
Agreed Daedalus3.

The only problem to this is that when was the last time that China actually had an aircraft that was battle proven or tested against other aircraft in say, air-combat simulations or air excercises versus another nation, etc.?
seekerof

Pakistan's Chinese made J-6s shot down 12 Indian aircraft while only losing 3 in a battle. A Chinese J-6 also downed a F-104 over Hainan,but thats in the 1960s,anyway it will be cheaper to just make your own planes based on other planes,China now is focusing on its economy.

Ok, so instead of saying "They stole this from whoever" we should be going, and saying "Hmm, it flies, not bad, can it shoot?"

Deny Ignorance my friend, it is important that we look at it's performance, not where it comes from. The aircraft flies, shoots, therefore is a good machine, case closed. If it does what it sets out to do, regardless of where it originated, that's all that is important.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by W4rl0rD

Pakistan's Chinese made J-6s shot down 12 Indian aircraft while only losing 3 in a battle. .

WAs that all in one engagement?! Im curious to know the odds..I don't debunk the above statement..I've heard of it before..but wan't sure if it was in one battle..

Ever notice how that ill-fated US spyplane getting caught spying on China kinda co-incided with the whole entire mess that was - and continues to be - 9-11?

No, I don't mean China attacked on 9-11, I mean that it is as if by doing that weird spyplane flyover, some kind of 'domino rally action ally' event was triggered, right, that would only be needed to occur IF - only IF - there was still a presence in this world of anyone not one-world enough to be as much as thinking of spying on another country like that - wtf happened there? We were like way above that level long before that and no-one was thinking in terms of arms races at all, or related, now it's like loads of countries have been propelled back to the dark ages of evolution.

How long are we going to be held back waiting for some people to realise that no-one in any actual position of power has thought that way about arms races for a very long time??? How did anything even move that far back, what dunderheads required that kind of show on their TVs???