All chinese aircrafts are pathetic copies

Originally posted by Lucretius
I don't recall any of our former colonies hating us.

On the contrary the commonwealth is one of the worlds largest and most succesfull organisations.

Take India for example... one of our largest trade partners for years

If they loved you so much , how com ethey all kicked you out??
Can you compare the commonwealth with NATO or the G-8 in political clout or power?
Taking India's example you will find that UK only contributes about 4.6% of total INDIAN foreign trade!
www.britishhighcommission.gov.uk.../Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1017170902355
The first India-uk trade partnership was only in 1993. What happened before that?
didn't think india had any value in it after you wiped it clean did you?

They didnt 'kick us out', British foreign policy changed and we handed power over to local government. We saw that times had changed, and maybe these people were better off governing themselves - we were both right and wrong.

You see, we CAN change policy. We dont persue it to the ends of the earth without ever reevaluating it.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey


This sh*t during rememberance week!? ......tell me are you intending to wander along to a cemetary and p*ss on some WW1 & 2 veteran's graves whilst you rave on with this deeply offensive, idiotic and ignorant garbage.

What the heck are you talking about?? Rememberence day was on the 11th of Nov.
If you find it insulting, screw you!!

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I don't, because of complacency to act on time and a shoddy resistence that is why so many more thousands died for that folly!

The nazis in Germany cynically exploited the aftermath of WW1; whatever justified grievances Germany had at her treatment by the western allies regarding the 1919 formal Armistice agreement (and she had many legitmate ones.....that armistice was turned into a total surrender).

Britain like many in the rest of the world was trying to reach just and sustainable conclusions.

Ha! thats a laugh .So that's your excuse! Admirable attempt but pathetic neverthe less.

Genuinely having to experience and deal with a modern educated first world developed country litterally taken over by aggressive maniacal lunatic psychopaths was a very new experience and a huge shock for everyone.

How dare you claim all those lives were lost and all those people injured because you imagine people did 'nothing'.

So you were psychologically traumatised by seeing a "a modern educated first world developed country litterally taken over by aggressive maniacal lunatic psychopath", that sure explains the inaction !
Those people died for what they belived in- i.e your leaders had made wise and right choices for them to follow. I doubt they had any say in the matter!

- This is just stupid, wrong and again a grevious insult to those who suffered and died in the fighting right from the start. Brits fought in Norway long before the Battle of France itself. You really have no clue, do you?
The BEF went to Europe long before the 'Battle of Britain'.

What did the BEF accomplish?? Sure they provided for good morale boost to the france and belgium but the commanders who sent them in didn't learn anything from the spanish civil war did they? Even after these tactics had been tried out in the Spanish Civil War(blitzkreig). Great planning went into it ? sure, sure!

...and by the way many brave UK volunteers went off to war to fight fascism in the Spainish civil war long before WW2.

and still the british commanders didn't have an idea how to the germans would attack? Amazing!

There was a fight put up alright, you don't appear to know the half of it.

yeah sure,what ever you say! The BEF did exactly as the RN and british army did in Norway. Wave the flag and run for cover!
If you count droping supplies to the resistence as the great contribution in Norway, then I say no more.

As for referring to the fight as 'pathetic', again this is shameful ignorance......hey, why not look up one of the surviving US volunteers who fought with the RAF in the 'BoB' and explain your theories to him.....and then see how many seconds your front teeth remain firmly attached to your ignorant head.

When I mentioned the 'pathetic fight' I ment the proxy war before the US came to europe. You defenitely cannot take all the credit for BOB as their were almost 600,000 american troops and only about 50-55 thousand british troops apart from the others took part.

- Eisenhower was a great man, I agree.
But to claim he won the war was something he would never claim in all of his life.....so what makes you think you are qualified to say something he never would have done?

the statement Eisenhower won the war- I have never made .your presumptuous, I said - only after he arrived on the scene did an effective counter begin against the German war machine.Which did happen!
Don't tell me Normandy has escaped your memory>!

The Germans might even have won it at one stage (had they not changed tactics and switched away from attacking the airfields to the city of London, who knows?) but nevertheless they did not.

For all their material advantage in numbers we had radar, a force multiplier for which they had no answer.

There was never any prospect of the Luftwaffe defeating the RAF after September 1940. We held on.....and that was all we had to do. That was our victory and their defeat.

After Sept 1940 the tech advantage we had meant that even their night bombing of Britain petered out becoming sporadic, ultimately ineffectual and in the end far too costly for them to sustain.

No question, Britain truely did win that one.....and all on our own at that.

You seem to conveniently forget the huge presence of the TAC of the first and ninth armies of the USAF under General Quesada that were put under the control of the RAF

Now f*ck off and troll some where else you insulting idiotic goon.

God save the Queen? Indeedy.

I'll let you off on that one


[edit on 13-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by IAF101

What the heck are you talking about?? Rememberence day was on the 11th of Nov.

- I don't know how it works in your corner of the world but here the Sunday after the 11th is the day of religious services, hence there is such a thing as 'rememberance week', you know poppy week?

I don't, because.....

.....you're about 13yrs old and enjoying yourself being ever so naughty and such a cheeky monkey making fun of such a horrible tragedy.
Coo you're impressive.

Ha! thats a laugh .So that's your excuse!

- There is no excuse.
The whole world, including America (oh yes, we've all seen the films, the US nazi 'movement' was quite a size once upon a time wasn't it? ), found it hard to believe - for such a long time - that Hitler & Co was for real.
Never the less when it became apparant we acted, just in time too.

", that sure explains the inaction !
Those people died for what they belived in- i.e your leaders had made wise and right choices for them to follow. I doubt they had any say in the matter!

- Yes your 20/20 hindsight really is such a wonderful thing isn't it. Wow with such amazing perceptive powers you should go far young man....

What did the BEF accomplish?? Sure they provided for good morale boost to the france and belgium but the commanders who sent them in didn't learn anything from the spanish civil war did they? Even after these tactics had been tried out in the Spanish Civil War(blitzkreig). Great planning went into it ? sure, sure!

- Where did you get this notion that the Spainish civil war was a 'Blitzkreig' war?
Do tell us more on this new and highly original theory.....it's a genuine first.... do go on.....

and still the british commanders didn't have an idea how to the germans would attack? Amazing!

- I would love it if you could expand some more on this idea Spain's civil war was a dress-rehersal for WW2. The Luftwaffe gained some experience but that was nothing like what you imply.
Jayzuss wept.
A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing eh?

The BEF did exactly as the RN and british army did in Norway. Wave the flag and run for cover!

- I don't think you'd find the Germans claiming Norway was anything other than very 'touch and go' for them.
Once again you demonstrate you so obviously know nothing about these matters, young troll.

.....and I imagine if you had the guts to say any of this to a vet's face on sunday you would be lucky to live out the day - no matter how quickly they got you to intensive care.

If you count droping supplies to the resistence as the great contribution in Norway, then I say no more.

- Yeah, well that's just typical, isn't it. More sneering insults for those that took part.
Deride the (much appreciated) efforts of the brave crews who flew those highly dangerous supply missions.
There might not have been the 'glamour' of the other stuff but it cost many fine personnel their lives.....shame they gave theirs for someone like..... you.

Tell it to a vet, I dare you.

When I mentioned the 'pathetic fight' I ment the proxy war before the US came to europe.

- 'Proxy war'? Jayzuss.
Idiotic, absurd, insulting and excrescent.
You are a low deeply immature thing aren't you?

You defenitely cannot take all the credit for BOB as their were almost 600,000 american troops and only about 50-55 thousand british troops apart from the others took part.

- What are you talking about? What are you confusing yourself over?

The 'Battle of Britain' was a fight between the RAF and the Luftwaffe in 1940.

the statement Eisenhower won the war- I have never made .your presumptuous, I said - only after he arrived on the scene did an effective counter begin against the German war machine.

- You'll find if you bother looking that the tide had already turned before Eisenhower came along.
It was a British victory in Alamein in Oct 1942 that was the begining of the end for the nazis.
As Churchill said before Alamein we never had a victory, after it we never had a defeat.

You'll find Eisenhower didn't get into the fight until 'Torch' (a combined not solely American operation) in Nov 1942.

Don't tell me Normandy has escaped your memory>!

- Er once more for the deaf the D-Day (that is Normandy and all that) landing comprised of 75 214 British troops, 57 500 American, 12 000 Canadian troops and troops from Australia, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway and Poland also took part.



[edit on 13-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

IAF, I think you need a general knowledge about wars, it doesn't matter how many people you killed, it does that how many whom you saved. Otherwise in WWII, everyone is evil despite their efforts to maintain peace. What would you say in US civil war, if the southern states want to be independence because of different understanding of labor force? (Don't lecture me with "slavery is not right" stuff, it is just a concept at the time. Think outside the box.)

Tibet is too important for China, without Tibet, the landscape of China would be open to any attacks anytime, defenceless, I would not risk billions of people's lives under that kind of threats, wouldn't you agree? US is lucky to have peaceful Canada and Underdeveloped Mexico along the borders, guess what happens if it is Russia located north of your national map? It is an absolute requirement for a defensive nation, I would not even talk about moral values to you, since you would probably ignore these facts anyway.

Ill have to go with the brits on this one. As i said before trade % of a country does NOT indidcate its alligence. So the fact that china trades a LOT with the US DOESNT mean that the US will side htem in a conflict with say India. Infact the US will side India covertly. Similarly India has a good relantionship with the brits. WE didnt 'kick ' the Brits out in the end..its was an amicable departure..and we've had good relationships with them since then.

IAF, 600,000 US troops in the Battle of Britain? The number of US personnel in the BOB was actually 7, thats just 7. Seven very brave and heroic young men. How insulting that you think lives lost in wartime are 'pathetic'. Maybe because these seven men were Americans and 'only' one of them died you think they weren't pathetic, only foreigners are? I can't figure you out.

Funny how you posted a definition of the concept of communism that basically said exactly the same as I did originally, yet you tried to rip me to bits over it. Remember when I said about it being different from the corrupted form? Or are you terminally stupid?

Actually, after hearing your warped ideas about WW2 I would have to say that the answer to that question is 'YES'.

Originally posted by IAF101

What the heck are you talking about?? Rememberence day was on the 11th of Nov.
If you find it insulting, screw you!!

want me to send you the pictures of the service we just had like 3 hours ago?
oh yeah says who?

I don't, because of complacency to act on time and a shoddy resistence that is why so many more thousands died for that folly!

WHAT THE HELL! do you have any respect for the dead? go talk to some veterans

Ha! thats a laugh .So that's your excuse! Admirable attempt but pathetic neverthe less.

yeah like america done anything etheir?

What did the BEF accomplish?? Sure they provided for good morale boost to the france and belgium but the commanders who sent them in didn't learn anything from the spanish civil war did they? Even after these tactics had been tried out in the Spanish Civil War(blitzkreig). Great planning went into it ? sure, sure!

in WW1 they held of the german army with rifles. pretty impresive when the other side was issued with machine guns.
so we went on the retreat big deal like the american military has never done this before?
hell the troops in the rear gaurd made them pay for every yard in WW2. where was america in WW2? eh i ask you ! you actually came in claiming to act peacekeeper BUT you bailed out of it the first chance you got.

and still the british commanders didn't have an idea how to the germans would attack? Amazing!

so one wars tactics is exsactly how they are going to act in the next one?

There was a fight put up alright, you don't appear to know the half of it.

really? so let me guess your the exspert on tactics here?

yeah sure,what ever you say! The BEF did exactly as the RN and british army did in Norway. Wave the flag and run for cover!
If you count droping supplies to the resistence as the great contribution in Norway, then I say no more.

really? the RN ran for cover huh? this another great US history lesson?
the BEF,RN and british army gave them hell for ever foot,mile and every damm nautical mile!
"On 15 May 1940, near the River Dyle, Belgium, Second Lieutenant Annand inflicted heavy casualties on the enemy with hand grenades. He was wounded, but after having his wound dressed, he made another attack on the enemy the same evening. Later, when the position became hopeless and the platoon was ordered to withdraw, Lieutenant Annand discovered that his batman was wounded and missing. He returned at once to the former position and brought him back in a wheelbarrow before fainting from loss of blood."
one vetran that made it out.
"On 21 May 1940 near the River Escaut, Belgium, Company Sergeant-Major Gristock organized a party of eight riflemen and went forward to cover the company's right flank, where the enemy had broken through. He then went on with one man under heavy fire and was severely wounded in both legs, but having gained his fire position undetected, he managed to put out of action a machine-gun which was inflicting heavy casualties and kill the crew of four. He then dragged himself back to the right flank position but refused to be evacuated until contact with the battalion had been established. He later died of his wounds"
one more that didnt. and you call these people cowards? useless? i call them hero's. you should come here next rememberance and say what you said to all the parade and see how many TA,ACF,ATC,REME,SCC and vetrans would be queing to hurt you.

When I mentioned the 'pathetic fight' I ment the proxy war before the US came to europe. You defenitely cannot take all the credit for BOB as their were almost 600,000 american troops and only about 50-55 thousand british troops apart from the others took part.

oh really? "From June 1940 when his operational career began, until the end of his fourth tour in July 1944, when he had completed a total of 100 missions Wing Commander Cheshire displayed the courage and determination of an exceptional leader. During his fourth tour he pioneered a new method of marking enemy targets, flying in at a very low level in the face of strong defences. In four years of fighting against the bitterest opposition he maintained a standard of outstanding personal achievement, his successful operations being the result of careful planning, brilliant execution and supreme contempt for danger"
so inventing the now well used tactic was doing nothing?

or what about this?
"On 5 November 1940 in the Atlantic, Captain Fegen, commanding HMS Jervis Bay, was escorting 37 merchantmen, when they were attacked by the German pocket battleship Admiral Scheer. Captain Fegen immediately engaged the enemy head-on, thus giving the ships of the convoy time to scatter. Out-gunned and on fire Jervis Bay maintained the unequal fight for three hours, although the captain's right arm was shattered and his bridge was shot from under him. He went down with his ship but it was due to him that 31 ships of the convoy escaped."


now tell me these men done nothing while germany invaded countries?

Originally posted by IAF101
SAYS WHO?? what are you ? illiterate ?

no do you have any idea on the concept of comunism?

DID HOLLYWOOD STAGE THE TIAMEN MASSECERE?
DID HOLLYWOOD COVERTLY KILL MILLIONS OF CHINESE FOR MAO??

china done them BUT yet again i must say they are not comunist.

what kind of rationale do you base your points on??"--says who" Is that the best argument you can come up with??

i want to see where you get your idea's of comunism from.

Says who--I could list all the encyclopedias in the world and all the history books in the world on china but I will give you this one link about Mao (Hey I can't help it, you just won't listen

if you had said russia i might have understood but you have picked china because it is the only large "comunist" country in the world.
all i got to say is how can china be a comunist if it still has money?
now if there is money obviolsy there will be people with more control over money and there fore are better than the rest of the population, are you following this or do i have to get a translator?
now in comunism in ,theory,every one is equal that means every one is just as poor or just as rich as everyone else.

What the heck are you talking about??Did you read my post or is this just more drivel??
I am ridiculing the fact that communism boasts of equality or "fair share" but doesn't deliver on its fundamental principles. Understand??
Do you know what communism is ?? Why are you differenciating socialism and communism?? Communism grew from socialism.Their is no left or right in a communist state! Bah!Forget it just read on and maybe you will understand!

if you knew what it was then you would understand that comunism is never going to work because of human nature, how can you say that it doesnt deliver if it has never existed except on paper.
no right or left? i was meaning left or right political parties. which both are on the left side but comunism is far right.

NOT AGAIN?? HERE!

yet again i must say they cannot be comunist if there is money involved.

SO YOUR SAYING THAT COMMUNIST COUNTRIES DONT HAVE DICTATORS??

i was saying that comunism is very easy to take over, that is why there are so many dictators using comunism as an exscuse.

The absolute control of a state by one party, by one man is what??
SO the other leaders of USSR were not dictators?
AS for the americanised "BOX" if it means that I have freedom, equality liberty and justice for all as is my belief then I don't mind being in this "BOX"!

no it does not mean that but hey carry off on tangents if you want.
absolute of cotrol of the state by the government already exists , your president is an exsample.

Stole their money?? This coming from a country that plundered, looted and subjugated half the world to fill its own coffers to further its imperialistic agenda??--No better than buccaneers!

well we are better than buccaneers because we done it to save our country. also am i happy about what my country has done in the past? no and yes. the UK government has done many bad and many good things. but yet again the bad outshines the good.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Great fight retreating wasn't it?? Sure, you heroically gave up Czechoslovakia to the germans. You must be proud of this!

what do you think we where going to do like? make a major right flanking move and invade from the mediteranian sea?

We lost WW2 in January 1943. In Stalingrad.

The rest was just the aftermath.

It was suprising that we actually got so far.The Wehrmacht was ill equipped and the population was totally tired of war.

El Alamein did it's part but we should never have gone to Africa. It was just to help out the Italians.
It was insignificant for the European Theater.

Originally posted by tsuribito
We lost WW2 in January 1943. In Stalingrad.

The rest was just the aftermath.

No, i think Kursk was the decision. After Stalingrad Manstein was able to make counteroffensive again.

Originally posted by IAF101
OH please don't tell me!
The commonwealth ?? You call that your empire?
The last time I read all of them kicked the empire out!
Falklands........fought heroically against the argentenians(BRAVO!)
gibralter...........big rock in the mediteranian
blah, blah....... inconsequential

No, I don't, I'm not a Brit. They don't call it their Empire either. The Commonwealth is a voluntary organistion of sovereign nations that used to be colonies. The empire is a collection of Crown Colonies whose Governors are appointed by London.

Really, then why was Mugabe trying so hard to remain a member and why is Musharraf trying so hard to be re-admitted?

Inconsequential is not the point. You said the Empire no longer existed. It does. You said China was communist, it isn't. Go read Das Kapital before you start defining Communism. Go read any book before you start speaking.

A little hint for you, a Graphic Novel is not a book. It's a comic.

You should chat with no_fear_007, you'd get on well.

"Now I know why we have America, it's somewhere to keep the Americans." - Clive James.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- I don't know how it works in your corner of the world but here the Sunday after the 11th is the day of religious services, hence there is such a thing as 'rememberance week', you know poppy week?

You don't know eh? well thats not a suprise is it !
But Here we celebrate it on the 11th of Nov.www.warmuseum.ca...

.....you're about 13yrs old and enjoying yourself being ever so naughty and such a cheeky monkey making fun of such a horrible tragedy.
Coo you're impressive.

Me 13 years old! Thats new!
I understand that you have such a lot of pride riding on the British efforts of your WW2 campaign, it must infuriate you to know of others opinions.
I frankly don't care for feelings ( aww. don't cry ). you might want to look in the mirror before you complain of my immaturity when you can't even supply an efficient argument without resorting to defamation !!

- There is no excuse.

you don't have an excuse , thats suprising?

The whole world, including America (oh yes, we've all seen the films, the US nazi 'movement' was quite a size once upon a time wasn't it?

), found it hard to believe - for such a long time - that Hitler & Co was for real.
Never the less when it became apparant we acted, just in time too.

You claim to be such an virtuoso in WW2 how come you don't know the american perspective of the war??Could it just be British propaganda or ignorance or both?
Firstly, america was not interested in european wars and its politics. Our economy was growing and we were not interested in european troubles as we hoped europe would be able to take care of its own.
Apperently they fell short !
America hated the Nazis but we were not militaristic . We thought it was not our duty and out of our power to do any thing about it.
We had just come out of depression and were building our industrial base and economics dominated our policy.We had no military might compare to the europeans and never assumed that we could take on anybody.
America sided with Europe through ww1 and 2 . Most americans were oblivious to europes problems and even those that knew were sure the europeans could handle it. Don't think for a second that the goverment was not watching the situation in Europe.We helped monetarily and with industrial support at first because we thought going to war ment that our economy would dwindle and return to 30's level.
We supported the allies as much as possible without declaring war on the Aixs. Thats one of the main reasons for Pearl Harbour BTW[we cut off oil to japan to all those who don't know] and futher the nazi's attacked our shipping so thus we were forced into war as we always have.

- Yes your 20/20 hindsight really is such a wonderful thing isn't it

Lets be honest, Britan didn't use all its power to fight hitler by sendin in the BEF did it! I mean you could have mobilised a lot more troops and engaged them on many more fronts if britan really wanted. Even after germany's troop mobilisations and militarisation you didn't expect the germans to come through belgium and you thought that with the maginot line the french could easily hold them off( they might not publish this in your textbooks so as you say think out side the box!)

- Where did you get this notion that the Spainish civil war was a 'Blitzkreig' war?

Before asking such general facts try reserch next time it would save me time by not responding to such trivial questions [ you say i am ignorant -well, before accusing some one of ignorance look in the mirror]
I didn't say that the spanish civil war was a 'blitzkrieg' but it was a testing ground for such tactics by the germans and the italians, obviously you don't know so i won't bothe rexplaining any further!www.infoplease.com...

- I don't think you'd find the Germans claiming Norway was anything other than very 'touch and go' for them.

Actually more thatn the fight you guys put up the rebels in that region did a better job in hurting the germans in the long run.
I still don't understand why hitler attacked norway, he could have gone for britan instead he took norway and lost lot of resources in that foolish move.
Overconfidence i guess.

.....and I imagine if you had the guts to say any of this to a vet's face

I don't care about your vetrans , I have spoken to some of the vetrans over here and learnt many intresting things from them. BTW , i would like to see a ww2 vetran take me on, he must be like 80 years, come on?

There might not have been the 'glamour' of the other stuff but it cost many fine personnel their lives.....shame they gave theirs for someone like..... you.

I'll tell you some of the best contributions by the british to WW2 that you should know not the useless drivel you go on and on with.
1] Cracking the enigma......couldn't have won without that
2]the RADAR.......ingenious
3]THe RAF's ingenuity in blowing up of those dams
3]the use of britan as a stage for the normany landings
last but not the least in significance ws the role of hte british SF's

Tell it to a vet, I dare you.

I did, he just sneered for a while and then started to explain british dilema before ww2

You defenitely cannot take all the credit for BOB as their were almost 600,000 american troops and only about 50-55 thousand british troops apart from the others took part.

sorry, by BOB i ment battle of the bulge.

[edit on 19-11-2004 by IAF101]

[edit on 19-11-2004 by IAF101]

ah the arogance of the young, no respect for any one these days huh.
no respect for fighters that faught in wars more horrific than any they will see, more difficult than any they will see.
BTW you say that britain could have sent more troops over. we didnt because we were T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G them you know the things that you teach a soldier to do his job right?

Originally posted by IAF101
Me 13 years old! Thats new!

- Well it's the kind of level your 'debate' at.

I understand that you have such a lot of pride riding on the British efforts of your WW2 campaign, it must infuriate you to know of others opinions.

- What are you talking about? This is such childish 'thinking'.
I wasn't there, I don't have any responsibility for what happened; I didn't do any of it.....what are you talking about? What "pride riding on"...... what?

Some of the most interesting conversations I have ever had about the last war have been with 'regular' German people and seeing it from their point of view.

Other informed views and opinions are usually very interesting, game-playing trolling isn't.

I frankly don't care for feelings ( aww. don't cry

).

- More childish bloviating.
Like I'd care that you make such a song and dance about 'not caring'.

You claim to be such an virtuoso in WW2

- Where? Where did I make any such claims?

how come you don't know the american perspective of the war??Could it just be British propaganda or ignorance or both?

- Hmmm keen to ignore the US nazi movement are we?
I didn't claim it was 'the American perspective' (whatever that is meant to be) it was a mere - large - facet of the US perspective pre-war, it most certainly did exist.

America hated the Nazis

- Some Americans did, that is true.
It is also true the US nazi movement was very large pre-war, isn't it?

We supported the allies as much as possible without declaring war on the Aixs.

- That much is true.....to a point.
You did it in your own interests too and at top $.

Thats one of the main reasons for Pearl Harbour BTW[we cut off oil to japan to all those who don't know] and futher the nazi's attacked our shipping so thus we were forced into war as we always have.

- America forced Japan into a corner over oil, guaranteeing war with them, America attacked German subs whilst claiming neutrality.
All of which set the scene for the Japanese attack (probably allowed to proceed) and the Germans being obliged by treaty to support Japan.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy it all worked out for the allies but the USA was no innocent in any of this, merely calculating to a high degree.....but then what would have moved a population so predisposed to isolationism otherwise?

Lets be honest, Britan didn't use all its power to fight hitler by sendin in the BEF did it! I mean you could have mobilised a lot more troops and engaged them on many more fronts if britan really wanted. Even after germany's troop mobilisations and militarisation you didn't expect the germans to come through belgium and you thought that with the maginot line the french could easily hold them off( they might not publish this in your textbooks so as you say think out side the box!)

- What? Where do you get this nonsense from?
Firstly Britain mobilised what she had at home and what was ready.
If you think the UK had any more troops to send please let me know (and back your claims with references please....what with this being another new bit of WW2 info) cos it would be news to all those who saw the loss of the BEF as the UK losing her standing army and the core of what it was later to become, had the Dunkirk rescue failed.

Do you really think the inadequacies of the Maginot Line are news to us?
Do you really think no-one saw the glaring gap in the line at Belgium?
Do you know about how the Belgians said extending the line along their border with France was unacceptable to them and they would not allow it?

But it was also felt that an attack - especailly an attack with armour - through the Ardennes forest would take so long and be so difficult that the necessary movement of troops to cover the gap would have sufficient time to take place.
Sadly they were very much mistaken. All of them. Brits, French and Belgians.
Why do you imagine this wouldn't be 'in our books'?
That's just weird matey.

Before asking such general facts try reserch next time it would save me time by not responding to such trivial questions [ you say i am ignorant -well, before accusing some one of ignorance look in the mirror]
I didn't say that the spanish civil war was a 'blitzkrieg' but it was a testing ground for such tactics by the germans and the italians, obviously you don't know so i won't bothe rexplaining any further!www.infoplease.com...

- Actually this is simply your deeply superficial understanding at work.
As I said the Luftwaffe (admittedly a major component of Blitzkrieg) tested tactics.
But Blitzkrieg is the combined operations of ground forces - particularly and most especially armour - and air.
There was no Blitzkrieg rehersal in Spain for Germanys' ground forces, they weren't there; therefore it is pretty hard to conclude with much authority that Blitzkrieg was really meaningfully 'rehersed' there.

Actually more thatn the fight you guys put up the rebels in that region did a better job in hurting the germans in the long run.

- I suggest you look at what actually happened again. It was a very close run thing.....and regardless of your silly quibbling you'll find Germans of the time who were there saying so. They came very close to running away to Sweden in failure.....particularly after the mauling the Royal Navy gave their invasion fleet.
www.gebirgsjaeger.4mg.com...

I still don't understand why hitler attacked norway, he could have gone for britan instead he took norway and lost lot of resources in that foolish move.
Overconfidence i guess.

- Well, once again, you don't appear to understand very much about this do you?

It's obvious.
He went to secure his raw materials. Iron and aluminium ore primarily....and then bases for some of his U-boats and air units to harry the Royal Navy in the North Sea.

He could not have gone for the UK first without total failure. In view of the available types and specs (particularly the ranges of his available fighters and the range versus load carrrying ability of his bombers) of his aircraft I doubt a proper attack would have been possible at all anyway.

Given that pre-Norway Hitler didn't even have the much closer bases in France to operate from, had he tried a 'Battle of Britain' from even further away he and his unfortunate airforce would most certainly have lost to an even sounder thrashing than they did in actual fact receive.

I don't care about your vetrans , I have spoken to some of the vetrans over here and learnt many intresting things from them. BTW , i would like to see a ww2 vetran take me on, he must be like 80 years, come on?

- No doubt veterans think highly of you too.

I'll tell you some of the best contributions by the british to WW2 that you should know not the useless drivel you go on and on with.
1] Cracking the enigma......couldn't have won without that
2]the RADAR.......ingenious
3]THe RAF's ingenuity in blowing up of those dams
3]the use of britan as a stage for the normany landings
last but not the least in significance ws the role of hte british SF's

- I don't deny any of that list as important in their own way.
Ultra and radar were a fine measure of the genius of Britains science....and in the case of Ultra along with the genius of Polish and French science (the dam busting is seen by many as having a lot less impact now than originally though).

I didn't mention these before as the discussion had not broadened out that far, but glad to see you recognising the continent and Britain's fundamental contribution.

I would also say that whilst Ultra was vital most commentators believe it shortened the war by 2yrs. Not that it necessarily 'won' the war.

The fact remains that the UK and the commonwealth took the fight to Germany for 2yrs+ before the USA came in and we defeated them when and where it mattered.
Total victory for Germany was never going to happen.

We saved ourselves thank you very much and we did it by force of our own arms.

I did, he just sneered for a while and then started to explain british dilema before ww2

- So he viewed you with distain as a young ignoramous who didn't know the first thing about it.
Now why doesn't surprise me?

sorry, by BOB i ment battle of the bulge.

- There was a damn sight more to WW2 in Europe than the Battle of the bulge.....which (thanks to Ultra) was a sucker move to get the last of Germany's effective forces out from behind their defensive lines and shorten the war.
In any case by all rational reasoning they had lost totally by then, the Battle of the bulge thankfully shortened the suffering, but the German attack was, by then, mere tactics and no great threat strategically.



[edit on 19-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Some people around here think that because the American Airforce has superior Firepower (no doubt about that) that translates into themselves having superior intelligence and superior moral judgement, disregarding that many technological developments have been made in the past by importing the best students and brains (attracted by the us free-market) from all over the world , not by the typical rural midwest Bush voter that thinks having a bigger gun makes up for lacking arguments....

Guess what, that free market is now in China ,so the brains will stay there,

If china really is making "pathetic" copies of other bad copies, than why even bother creating the F-22 Raptor? Surely a flyswatter would suffice ?

Thus far, the chinese have shown to be a fast learning student and one day might teach the master a lesson or 2...

Is it fear of false sense of pride that makes you downplay the chinese?


[edit on 19-11-2004 by Countermeasures]

[edit on 19-11-2004 by Countermeasures]

I understand where you are coming from, however, the F-22 raptor was in no way shape or form built by Chinese or any other foreign designers. It was built by top American engineers.

It is truely a marvel of engineering.

Shattered OUT...

Why waste your time making a plane like that when we can make a copy of it at 5 million a piece?

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Why waste your time making a plane like that when we can make a copy of it at 5 million a piece?

Because you can't make a copy of it at $5 million a piece.

First you need the plans. How much will they cost from a traitor?

Then you need the factory, the personnel, the tooling, the materials, the expertise and the test program to make sure your copy doesn't fall out of the sky when your Microsoft fly-by-wire system gets the blue-screen-of-death.

F5 Freedom Fighters you can probably make copies of for $5 million a piece.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I wasn't there, I don't have any responsibility for what happened; I didn't do any of it..

Some of the most interesting conversations I have ever had about the last war have been with 'regular' German people

You should have asked them about how they saw through british complacency and used it to their advantage in running amucke across europe

Like I'd care that you make such a song and dance about 'not caring'.

Obviously you do,thats why you responded and in doing so you have once again proven your callowness and the scope and depth of your meger imbecile intellectual aptitude at expressing your self.

Hmmm keen to ignore the US nazi movement
I didn't claim it was 'the American perspective' (whatever that is meant to be) it was a mere - large - facet of the US perspective pre-war, it most certainly did exist.
It is also true the US nazi movement was very large pre-war

This sort of statements show the sheer imprudence of the british which they display so exhuberantly over and over again.
Obviously you have never come the US and I visiualize you must be sitting in some farm talking to the chickens to make statements as rash as this .

In america (unlike daftly dogmatic and obdurate britan.) everyone is allowed to express any of their political and ideological ideas as long as it doesn't harm or infringe anybody elses rights or the local laws.
You wouldn't know any thing about that would you?Their is the socialist party and many other neo -nazi organisations even today and the constitution grants them the freedom to do what they want as long as they don't break the law or harm people.
Why even in the 2004 election the so called "nazi party" in america planned to contest but the majority don't bother about them and their influence is insignifiacnt at best.Here is your nazi party- try reserch next time!

You did it in your own interests too and at top $.

We could have become much more economically powerfull if we had more cordial relations with the germans in WW2, the only thing that stopped us was that the concern for the british. America could have easily sided with hitler in WW2, make no mistake about it - you would be dead! the germans would have gotten their resources from america and you people would loose your only life line out of europe and defenitely surrendered before the germans! (and quickly too as the was RAF in shambles after the battle of britan)
But it was with our support that kept the war going for you and made it possible so that you could continue your war. We cut oil to japan for the same reason to help the allied efforts in asia as japan was overwhelming the allies.
To be honest we were allways sure that japan nor germany for that fact
could attack america because of its strategic placement , but the move with japan cost america dearly due to its involvement with britan .

America attacked German subs whilst claiming neutrality.

where do you get this rubbish from? Do you have a compulsive disorder to rant perpetually??
The germans first attacked our merchant navy which was suppling britan, thats when we retalliated.

..but then what would have moved a population so predisposed to isolationism otherwise?

Why do you think we were predisposed? because we had been through the worst economic disaster to hit america, we were recovering from that dipressive peroiod and we(the people) wanted to build our economy after the depression was over so we would never have such times again.
Getting mixed up with europe and its squabbles weren't our primary concern and involvement would mean war which we wanted to avoid at all costs( just as we do today...)