Why America Will FAIL without Intervention from YOU!

Sadly if you think the call to action is now...that is the call to action in engaging in the most peaceful and prosperous transfer of power the world has seen for the past couple of centuries; they are too late.

The thought of involving ones self in local politics (where it all starts and how it was intended) and watching the "trickle up" effect take place, is far gone.

People only seek political office today because it is power. People only vote in "national elections" (even though they are Statewide elections, because they are so anemic and ill informed in the actual process.

A lot, including myself, like to point back to the Constitution; that document that was so profound and yet so simple; in designing a pact between the politically powerful (the Individual) and the State; only to see it used as a talking point in which both sides will use to fulfill their destined conquest of power.

It is time for the Individual to rise once again and flex their inherent political power once again....

reply to post by seabag

Like I previously said in this thread…if all of us marched to DC with a few million copies of the Bill of Rights I think that would force the issue.

Enough said... although I doubt that situation would end well... I don't really know the best way to put this... could just quote some founding fathers, but I'll give it a crack.

You have to be aware of the multitude of behavioral patterns found amongst the populations, as to also being aware of human nature, and patterns that have been developed over the past 10's of thousands of years. Not to nit pick, but if we 'all' did this, please believe it would not end in such a fashion that you had hoped for.

I man = 1 vote! What’s wrong with that? Does a wealthy man’s vote count more? What about a black vote? Woman’s vote?

Did you just link my previous comment with racism, class-warfare, and discrimination? Wow, you are good. You surely are deserving of the stars that this comment procured you.

No...

Drop the electoral college... ok.

Replace it with what, dare I ask? Did you just go as far to suggest popular vote?

Seriously! What is going on here... I swear someone is pulling a prank on me!

Electoral college is so dangerous, especially considering that only 3 times in history has it not paralleled the popular vote. Just about every negative attribute commonly argued against the electoral college is either ignorantly assembled, or just straight up subjective... and bears little truths...

I’m a partisan…I want representation!! What representation do conservatives get in 2012? What about Paulites? What about other groups we haven’t heard from?

We all get screwed now! Do you want the status quo? Sounds like it!

I take it you're cool with Obama?

1. Partisan
2. You want representation, go and vote...
3. Conservatives and Paulites are represented by said vote, and expressed in and around the floors of the White House.
4. Other groups we haven't heard from?... as in this thread, or in general. Generally speaking, they are being represented, in similar fashions as conservatives and paulites post 2012.

DO YOU WANT THE STATUS QUO, well you got it, partisan politics.

The whole notion of not participating in partisan politics addresses the very premise behind your cries for representation. For the recognition and adherence to partisan practices further establishes the divide and unequal representation that you seek!!!!!

You take it that I'm cool with Obama, yet... I'm sure you've realized by now, I 100% support Ron Paul, ANSWER THAT ONE ON YOUR OWN, if you answer yes, you are... and have no idea what you are talking about.

RP4L



Ok, now I'm even getting sick of my support for the man lol.

Originally posted by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

IMO, we are no where near a point in which the continuance of these practices will be the 'end of us as a nation'. Although, I may lean to agreeing that I may see it in my life time. I give it another 40 -50 years, maybe somewhere around a Newtonian 2060.

40 or 40 years will certainly bring changes. The last 40 or 50 years did, and so will the next. This is not the same country I was born in, for example. That country has already been destroyed, and replaced with the one we have now. Likewise, this one will be destroyed, and replaced with another. the bone of contention here is what you want to see it replaced with.

I don't like this replacement. It's not even a pale imitation of mine. I'm holding out my hope for the next one.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

IMO, we are no where near a point in which the continuance of these practices will be the 'end of us as a nation'. Although, I may lean to agreeing that I may see it in my life time. I give it another 40 -50 years, maybe somewhere around a Newtonian 2060.

40 or 40 years will certainly bring changes. The last 40 or 50 years did, and so will the next. This is not the same country I was born in, for example. That country has already been destroyed, and replaced with the one we have now. Likewise, this one will be destroyed, and replaced with another. the bone of contention here is what you want to see it replaced with.

I don't like this replacement. It's not even a pale imitation of mine. I'm holding out my hope for the next one.

It's not as grim as you paint it, IMO. From what I've researched in regards to behavioral psychology, and such relating fields. I have concluded that what is to emerge from this may just be the most amazing thing ever, something that all of man has been dreaming before the wheel was invented. The increased, world wide dissolve of economies, coupled with increased awareness of mortality and death... what they inspire, and are conducive towards... simply amazing.

Check out the thread linked in my signature, although much of it includes other sciences and hints towards a more radical theory. Also:

PROVING: 46 & 2, "The Next Major Human Advancement", The Awakening... I'm Almost There
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Which I then touch base on the following quote

“It's clearly a crisis of two things: Of consciousness and conditioning. We have the technological power, the engineering skills to save our planet, to cure disease, to feed the hungry, to end war; But we lack the intellectual vision, the ability to change our minds. We must decondition ourselves from 10,000 years of bad behavior. And, it's not easy.”

~ Terence McKenna

The development of 'intellectual wisdom' is what I address in that thread. Pretty spot on, I'd say... no one has refuted anything I have proposed in either threads... if you think I'm wrong, I'd love to hear about it.

This is incredibly important to know and understand, when addressing such an issue as 'revolution' or 'intervention'... meh, that's enough for now... no rant necessary.

I wouldn't go as far to say that this country has **not** been destroyed, and rebuilt yet... not once. There is still the Constitution, no matter how beat up it may seem. Much of the sentiment in regards to freedoms such as liberties, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th.... all still pretty solid if you ask me, heck why not toss the 3rd in there as well, ahh screw it, the entire bill of rights is still fairly solid.

btw...if there's anyone up to discussing the electoral college, cmon now, speak up... I see some opposition, but nothing intelligent said... what's so wrong with it?

Dear seabag,

Sorry, I'm coming to this thread so late. It's a combination of the right question and your passion to get an answer. I don't have one, but a couple of thoughts come to mind.

So far the proffered solutions seem to be:

Destroy the government and put in a new one.
Protest with lots of people.
Create a third party to wrest control from the existing two. (Or at least be equal to them.)
Vote for Ron Paul.
Accept things as they are.

I may have forgotten one or two, please remind me of it if I have.

Not surprisingly, none of these options get me excited, especially as they all (except passive acceptance) seem to call for vast numbers of Americans to change their habits. May I try a different emphasis?

PurpleChiten mentioned the importance of the Supreme Court, and I agree. Nothing can put the country on a new course (for good or bad) faster than a decision on the Constitutionality of some law. The Court is in the hands of the President, and to a lesser extent the Senate. My first goal then would be to remove Obama. His picks for the Court have not been good ones and I fear we may be trapped if he makes any more. Please note that I am saying the goal is to remove Obama. Either Romney or Paul would make better appointments, but Paul is not going to beat Obama this time around. Beating Obama is most important.

Electing constitutionalist Senators would finish the protection of the Court, at least for a while. With a reasonable Court in place we can look at nenothtu's goal:

The key there is to identify the core issues that both can agree upon, and leave local regulation to local governing bodies, rather than giving the Feds control over things they are not connected to.

Pressure can then be brought to bear to return the states to their proper role in the nation.

Then at the State level we should attempt to counter George Soros' plan. He has spent a lot of money to get his candidates in as Secretaries of the various states. It's normally a non-controversial position, but remember, they make the voting rules and count the votes. We should take those offices back.

I would also support those Governors who are willing to take on the Federal government and its power base. Florida, for example, has just laughed at a letter from the Department of Justice ordering them to stop trying to remove non-citizens from their voting rolls. Good for them. Scott Walker also comes to mind.

I know I have some more thoughts, but they're hiding from me. I hope this has been of some use to somebody.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by knoledgeispower

Yes they address these issues but it depends on the issue. Take a look at the whole Same Sex Marriage battle that America is all undecided on. There are lots of countries where same sex marriage is allowed but America is behind with the times because they can use it to further their agenda of spreading fear and hate.

The very recognition of a civil union should be removed. Simply put...

Guess what?

What?

Where does the constitution grant the right of marriage? Was marriage not a religious ceremony? Then why does the state or federal government care recognize such a union and apply over 1,500 laws in regards to it?

Oh wait... it's tied in with economy, that's right! I forget how progressive and intrusive the government has been in regards to its relationship with economics.

You mean a constitution that is being taken apart piece by piece by the US Gov? Cause you know they are all about freedom and rights down there, not like they aren't slowly stripping away your Freedom and Rights, oh wait they are. It's not the like the US Gov has been slowly taking away the laws in place in order to cause an economic crash, oh wait it did that and still is messing around with it. Don't get me wrong they are doing all over the world. It's not just the US but they are leading the way.

Yes and no... I'd argue that 90% of politicians are not intelligent enough, or lack knowledge in economics. It's not that they are intentionally doing all of this in spite of the citizens... rather, they are under the impression that these decisions are necessary for sustainability purposes and defense means. Once again, nature of the beast... who watches the watchers?

I think there's a much larger agenda than just the US.... more or less a tool, a stepping stone... more or less a means of establishing a new paradigm that is to govern the world. What results out of observing an economic crash(world wide), and the removal of freedoms? We shall see... in due time.

Well I'm glad that you are fortunate enough to have a life that allows for you to achieve your goals. Guess what? There are a lot of people in your country that can't and while you may be fine they are not. I'm sorry but any government who spoon feeds poison and lies to their citizens are trash in my books.

Those who are not fine, and not 'fortunate enough' to have a life that allows for them to achieve their goals... well, if they live in the US ARE FORTUNATE ENOUGH to have a life that allows for them to achieve their goals. Unless there is some medical issue...

I personally know those who have 'made it out the ghetto', against all odds, and are wealthy.

If you did not read all of what I said... go back and re read the part about the bull and taking it by the horns. People need to recognize the power that they have, and use it. Stop blaming everybody else!

Spoon feeds poison? What poison have I been spoon feed?
Governments always lie, especially those in war... it's called tactical deception, and deception is the root of all warfare. You know how you instill and rule class warfare, you deceive others as to what is happiness and show them it correlates with consumerism and consumption. Then when enough people have subsided their responsibilities and power of self enough... replaced it with government and economy. Bam! You now have a designed foundation in which you may construct control. Now... instead of independent and self aware mass, you have a dependent, unaware individual.

What I don't understand is how if you are aware of your governments actions and intentions then why do you do nothing? Why do you live there?

I live here, because my family lives here, and future family members of mine will do so as well. Because I will not run away, and I will not abandon the principals of the constitution. Also, I still have the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Do nothing?
Umm... do you not feel that the very discussing, and enlightening of others is doing anything? Sorry, some people have to live in reality, and address things accordingly. Time, wisdom, and the recognition that not everything is 'today'... Rome was neither built, nor collapse in a single day...

Canadians don't say "her Majesty" unless we were actually addressing her face to face to be polite. As for Minsters of the Crown and all that jazz.

What? Your wiki reference and comment, neither address what I said... nor defends or justifies their very existence.

Ok I'm done for the night, there's only so many escapism tactics that one can take in a day when trying to seriously discuss a topic. Till the next time...

reply to post by superballs


The process happens everyday.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
I'm in sales, and I close morons every day with the "option close": I present them "option A" and "option B". "No" is NOT an option, it's buy this one or that one. You would be shocked at how often that works. Way more than half the time. I guarantee it has worked on YOU many times in your life, often without you being aware of it.

This is exactly what the two party system is. It's a cheesy sales technique, it's all psychology, I would call it CHILD psychology, but it WORKS and it works VERY WELL. You've all been falling for it for over a hundred years.

"Your options are Obama or Romney. There is no other choice, it's our guy, or our other guy. Ron Paul has no chance, don't waste your vote on him. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! There is no other choice! Forget the part in the Declaration of Independence about your RIGHT TO ABOLISH THE GOVERNMENT. It's our way, or our way. There is no YOUR WAY."

I must agree with you. I was in sales for 10 years, and the option close worked like a charm. TPTB is working that angle like hell.

Originally posted by poloblack

Originally posted by CaptChaos
I'm in sales, and I close morons every day with the "option close": I present them "option A" and "option B". "No" is NOT an option, it's buy this one or that one. You would be shocked at how often that works. Way more than half the time. I guarantee it has worked on YOU many times in your life, often without you being aware of it.

This is exactly what the two party system is. It's a cheesy sales technique, it's all psychology, I would call it CHILD psychology, but it WORKS and it works VERY WELL. You've all been falling for it for over a hundred years.

"Your options are Obama or Romney. There is no other choice, it's our guy, or our other guy. Ron Paul has no chance, don't waste your vote on him. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! There is no other choice! Forget the part in the Declaration of Independence about your RIGHT TO ABOLISH THE GOVERNMENT. It's our way, or our way. There is no YOUR WAY."

I must agree with you. I was in sales for 10 years, and the option close worked like a charm. TPTB is working that angle like hell.

Yall better pipe down, before the shills come out of the woodwork and spam this thread with 'Ron Paul has no chance, when will you Paulites get it?' 'It's going to be Obamney, no matter if you like it or not'...

shhh!

reply to post by seabag


Seabag, thank you for taking the trouble to post - a lot of work !

Come November this year, the good folk of America will whoop and holler another self serving, corporate interested, wealthy, corrupt politician whose only interest is in maintaining the status quo.

You will do this willingly, because it,s what you Americans always do at election time. You WILL enjoy being the downtrodden, huddled masses...

My advice ? Nobody vote this November, by way of protest.. ( No, you,ll do what you always do, hoping the latest president will actually work in the interests of all Americans, not just the privileged few. )

P.s I,ll run the Whitehouse for you, free of charge or bribes. There,d be some big changes....

Originally posted by neo96
Really am tired of the corporate bashing same thing that has been said over and over and over for over 100 years.

Same rap different day and they expect the next generation to buy it Our government sucks because that is a reflection of us Our greed Our lust for control and power and thinking someone else is gonna make it all better!.

First mistake and last mistake because that is why it has been repeated for over 200 years. Want this country to change?

That is a journey that begins from within each of us, and anyone who seeks to outsource that power deserves the mastery they get.

Sorry.

edit on 4-6-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Neo96, you remind me of a politician... doesn't matter which one they all talk allot without giving any solid answers.

reply to post by seabag


I am insulted by your call to action out of one side of your mouth and the demand to quit out the other side. I find the use of the Constitution in your argument to be arbitrary at best.

I could not disagree more with your assessments. Nothing is over until it's over. Anything can happen in a democratic election. The capricious hand of fate can change things overnight.

The only part of the thread you got right was the title. You nailed that and here's why. The framers of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution brilliantly recognized 1. The authority to govern men should be based on Wisdom. 2. Wisdom comes through experience and is exclusive to no sub-group of men. 3. As it is impossible for any one man or group of man to experience everything that the entire group experiences, it is also impossible for any man or sub-group to have the wisdom of the group.

Conclusion: The most perfect union or government, that which is in greatest accord with Natural Law, does actively respect, solicit and engage the wisdom of the greatest number of citizens. So what we need is greater participation on any level. The more engaged opinions the greater the insight. The more passion the greater the determination.

The last thing we need is a call to inaction. We must put together a social mechanism for civic participation.

All I can say is that I am disgusted with the political process. We on the federal level get 2 people to vote for and that's really it. Yes you have all the independents and 3rd party candidates but none of them stand a chance in the electoral college.

We are living in a time that has seen far more tyranny than our founders did. I just found out that the feds are allowing private industry to utilize a local airport for drone testing. With laws like NDAA and the patriot act yelling at your elected reps about their support for such legislation will only lead to arrest.

If we want to restore America we need to remember this caveat IT ALL STARTS LOCAL. If we can get that trough our heads and take over the local political offices we can move on to the state. Once we have principled people at those levels in 2/3 of the states we can control and rein in our out of control federal government. That is the only peaceful way that I see it can be done.

Of course there is always plan B...

Violent revolution

Maybe we should have set up a parliament instead of a congress. Usually allows for smaller parties participation.

I think people who make these threads are actually disinfo agents for TPTB, and are just trying to ferret out people who don't like the TPTB.

Think about it.

Of course they'll deny it.

What do we do in 2013 after Obomney wins??

And he will because our voting system is rigged and has been for a long time.

Any man or woman allowed to sit at the desk within the Oval Office is chosen not by the People but by a hidden unseen power.

Evil men possessed by God knows what are running and ruining our planet.

United we would have stood but divided we fell.

We fell by allowing ourselves and our children to be dumbed down, distracted and divided.

The same BS will continue, rumors of war and then the big war, the war to end all wars.

Famine, many deaths and then, hopefully our Creator Father will again send his son to put an end to those who currently rule over us.

How do you stop a freight train with only a handful of people?

You can't.

Perhaps if everyone got down on their knees at the exact same time and prayed for peace, sent a out cry for justice and love - but too many people only care about themselves and or live day by day in denial or laugh at those of us that see the train coming.

So, the madness will, I fear, continue, until, like a pressure cooker, the lid blows off, then the S will hit TF.

It is not only America that will fail, it's now gone global. America was just ground zero.

As George Bush Sr. promised a New World Order has already been set into place.

It, like a serpent, is cold blooded, heartless and relentless. It will devour to satisfy it's appetite not caring who it destroys along the way.

Our voting system, like our outward government is a sham, a illusion to keep the unthinking, apathetic masses satisfied.

Work, soccer, ipods, yacking or texting endlessly on cell phones, HP, Twilight novels, magazines and novels that have no real social value, simply "entertainment". Even our entertainment has now taken on a darkness, like the Dark Over Lord's shadow has descended upon us.

We are in the midst of dark times, with here and there a ray of sunshine breaking through.

The dark times of hate, greed, apathy, unbridled lust will end, but not for awhile.

We're like on a roller coaster ride and nearing the top, not quite there yet.

The government, which was designed for the people, has got into the hands of the bosses and their employers, the special interests. An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy.

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U.S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

Both quotes by Woodrow Wilson - 28th President of the United States of America.

Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by seabag
I man = 1 vote! What’s wrong with that? Does a wealthy man’s vote count more? What about a black vote? Woman’s vote?

The founders saw the flaw of a pure democracy. The representative government is a higher form of government. However, this does depend on the integrity and goodness of the representative. In a democracy, every single person has to have the time, intelligence, knowledge and goodness. Clearly an impossibility. However, we might be able to scrounge together a few good men to make decisions on our behalf. That is how and why we have a republic.

However, I think that the electoral college is a crime. As I have said once before in another thread...

Originally posted by seabag
With regards to the office of the President: I think the electoral college should be gone. I disagree with the idea of a popular vote, but I support something near to it. The Presidents role is to represents the collective union, or states, not the individual. As such, each state should get a single vote, determined by popular vote. Each state is weighed equally, as it should be represented equally by the President.

How does popular vote equate to direct democracy? We would still be a constitutional republic and we would still have representatives in DC.  

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.

Thomas Jefferson


The system is corrupt, a third party will not be given a chance to grow. It is vast coming a time when people will have to decide to have courage and fight for what they believe, or allow themselves to be dragged further into the abyss.

reply to post by MrJohnSmith


I just sat and read through all 5 pages and there were many interesting suggestions but IMO this is the best one. Of course it won't work because there would be no way to get so many people on board, BUT IF it were possible and there were ZERO voter turn out at the polls in November I think that would send a powerful message.

Originally posted by superballs
i keep reading threads about how america is gonna fail

at least 2 or 3 a week (that i read) for the last 3 years

only thing is your never right.. you keep sayin its imminent but its been goin on for years lol

when is it gonna happen?

Just like benevolent aliens and jesus, folks keep saying the end is nigh!!
The thing is, it is a trick to help you give up the fight.
If the fight is almost over, there is no real need to participate right?
Wrong!
The fight is far from over, and jesus nor benevolent aliens nor financial collapse will make the guilty pay.
Losing is very possible and winning only secures your generation, our folks did it for us, let's do it for our kids.
Get in the fight, vote, speak to people (clearly and factually), do your part.
In the end if we lose, you can say you did something.