Why America Will FAIL without Intervention from YOU!

reply to post by seabag

Ya, I’m about to drop off the grid too! I’m waiting for THE sign, not A sign!

I think we as a nation still have time to fix things; so do the “experts” who aren’t elected schmucks!

The point of the thread was to gather ideas about what we do NEXT; after the 2012 election and nothing changes! We SURE AS HELL can’t wait 4 more years if we get the same-ol’ same-ol’.

Man... I agreed with so much of that. Then came the 'We SURE AS HELL can't wait 4 more years' bit...

We can, we will, and as long as people sit there and subscribe to some political paradigm that there is only two candidates, that their voice isn't being heard, and that no one represents them... or that ALL politicians are equal, the same, and not for the people by the people... we will be stuck in the same ole' monotonous, tedious, and destructive behavioral patterns that we've allowed govern us for the past 6,000+ years. The Constitution has addressed many, if not all of these issues... and then we added some unwarranted bells and whistles, and misconstrued what it originally stood for. BUT, it's still number 1 in my book, and it can be restored and recognized for what it truly conveys. Freedom!

Not everything is 'so in the moment', the time is not now, not tomorrow, not this election, or the previous one.... The time has always been, this means that there is an evolutionary aspect, a revolutionary one if you want. Which still does not remove what the Constitution stands for, but further defends it, for it represents said evolution.

I guess it's all based on experiences... I know I've experienced just about every hardship one can be subjected to, yet... I'm doing darn well, happy as a clam(something like that), and very optimistic about my and future generation's future.

I still say we're destined for greatness, and work everyday to achieve it... nothing will ever warrant a comment that even comes close to resembling " We SURE AS HELL can’t wait 4 more years if "... because... guess what? We can, and if it's that terrible.... WE WONT.

reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

Actually we've had candidates for a long time now... those that I'm guessing that you are hinting about(real candidates) have been present, and yes... making noise.

Do you think Ron Paul is the first person ever to speak out about the Federal Reserve, and the preservation of the Constitution and Civil Liberties? lol...

Where is RP in the general election?

Oh, that’s right, he lost the primary and you have no candidate!

Wake up!

The two-party system has shut us all down!!! Both parties are the SAME!!! Romney is not a conservative…neither was McCain….Neither was BUSH or his daddy!!! Maybe you’re a liberal and got what you wanted but liberal, in all actuality, comprise @ 15% of the country AT BEST!!!

Agreed! Very good, you caught on to why I used the term, and described it in such a fashion. It's because the use of such a label truly fails to even identify any given individual. This is also a contributing factor as to why partisan politics is a joke.

The modern definition accepted by MODERN LIBERALS and by CONSERVATIVE and MODERATES is nothing like you defined! YOU fail to keep up with the modern translation of the term liberal….

Whoa! Hold the phone! lol... I do suggest that the constitution is a living, breathing document... and those that constructed it knew this as well, some even suggested that it may only serve as an experiment in sorts, and that it was destined to one day fail. This for obvious reasons was not necessarily the rhetoric of the day, for the support of a union superseded any notion of its failure amongst its drafters and supporters.

Article 5; that’s the ONLY way to amend!

You don’t keep up with the BUZZ WORDS of the day, do you? How old are you?

Originally posted by superballs
i keep reading threads about how america is gonna fail

only thing is your never right.. you keep sayin its imminent but its been goin on for years lol

when is it gonna happen?

Take a look outside.

Go for a walk.

Remove your head from your rear cleansing device.

It already happened.

reply to post by neo96

i guess someone who is more concerned with getting the job done right

In order to get things done we all have to come to a concensus of what are the problems.

What is the concensus? That was kind of the question posed in the OP.

We’re getting Obomnay in November! FACT!

I hope it’s the Romney version, and that’s how I’ll vote, but either way we have January 2 afterwards. I’m not ignorant enough to think Romney is the magic cure to the country’s problems.

Let me ask you this, Neo! What happens on Jan 2 when we have Romney and a majority republican congress? I know Obamacare will be gone and things important to the average republican will begin to be repealed. However, do you think there’s a chance in hell NDAA, SOPA, ACTA, Patriot Act, etc will be repealed?? I don’t!

So what do we do then? Do we enjoy our revitalized economy and bury our heads back in the sand as if we had a conservative POTUS; because we certainly won’t have that and the constitution will only be slightly closer to being restored (if that)?

reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

Pretty darn well... America's still the best country in the world, the freest nation, and the best place for a person to be successful in regards to equality, discrimination, and civil rights.

Lol yea right, America is not the freest nation. it is not the best country in the world, it's more like the worst country in the wold & it most certainly is not the best place for a person to be successful in regards to equality, discrimination and civil rights.

1940 – Iceland decriminalizes homosexuality, 1942 – Switzerland decriminalizes homosexuality, with the age of consent set at 20 & 1944 – Sweden decriminalizes homosexuality, with the age of consent set at 20 and Suriname legalizes homosexuality. 1972 East Lansing, Michigan and Ann Arbor, Michigan and San Francisco, California become the first cities in United States to pass a homosexual rights ordinance.

I could go on with other examples of how America is not the best place for a person to be successful in regards to equality, discrimination and civil rights. Don't even get me started on your healthcare.

America has been running on creating fear and hate amongst people for decades and the focus of their hate & fear changes with the times but is always there.

If you are a citizen of another country and want to get duel citizenship with America you have to get rid of all other citizenships and apply to be an American citizen, then you are allowed to go and regain citizenship from the other country(s). America is a melting pot for culture, other countries like Canada is a mosaic of culture.

When Americans move to Canada they are all "America's #1!!" but after a couple years of seeing America for how it is without all the propaganda involved then they see how it's not that great after all.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Take a look at history and you will see just how "wonderful" America really is.

So you're looking for honest conversation and a real answer but you attack every post anyone puts forth. Suck up your sarcasm and maybe this thread will go somewhere and a answer will be found.

reply to post by seabag

What is the concensus? That was kind of the question posed in the OP.

Right villians: Social Security,Welfare,Medicare,Medicaid, Free education, and craddle to the grave nanny state.

Left villians: Banks,Corporations,Evil rich,Guns,salts,transfats,global warming,etc

There is no consensus or common ground the great partisan divide.

Let me ask you this, Neo! What happens on Jan 2 when we have Romney and a majority republican congress?

Honestly not much because of a fundamental lack of understanding of how the system works. Candidates and us have our ideology that we cling to and defend on a daily basis.

But once in Washington that ideology meets the hard cold reality that there is only so much that can be done.

I know Obamacare will be gone and things important to the average republican will begin to be repealed. However, do you think there’s a chance in hell NDAA, SOPS, ACTA, etc will be repealed?? I don’t!

I doubt that they are here to stay they are just war cries at the moment to polarize and energize bases so they can maintain their power.

So what do we do then? Do we enjoy our revitalized economy and bury our heads back in the sand as if we had a conservative POTUS; because we certainly won’t have that and the constitution will only be slightly closer to being restored (if that)?

Pray for a zombie apocalyspe because that is about the only way anyone is ever going to restore this country.

It all needs flushed.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by nenothtu

 

A third party.

The Republican Party has abandoned the Republicans. The Democrat Party has abandoned the Democrats. The only hope is to form a Malcontent party, for all of us Malcontents.

HELL YEAH!

Why can’t we have 10 parties? Let’s go back to a popular vote with a representative from all parties ARMED at the polling stations to ensure fairness??

Third parties (or fourth, fifth, or eighteenth parties) tend to get the attention of the major players when they start gaining steam. The Tea Party got co-opted by the neocons before it developed as a party, when it first appeared on the radar as a danger to them. Likewise OWS and the Democrats.

What is needed in a true third party is voices from BOTH of those sides of the people, to keep each other honest and throw the skids on an attempt at a major party takeover - neocon attempt, the left wingers scream bloody murder and set their feet down... progressive takeover, the right-wingers scream bloody murder and dig in their heels. I have hope that's a possibility, because every now and then I see Constitutionalists from both sides of the Great Divide. If they EVER get together on any points of agreement and start moving.... Katie bar the doors, because it'll be a hell of a ride!

The whole Governments of the world need an overhaul. A lot needs to be changed if we are to move forward. Forget the system we have now, it doesn't work, obviously. Time to forge a new system

reply to post by TheLieWeLive

So you're looking for honest conversation and a real answer but you attack every post anyone puts forth. Suck up your sarcasm and maybe this thread will go somewhere and a answer will be found.

Please tell me how discussion works here on ATS!

No, really, I’ll wait!

I’m not attacking every post I’m trying to get the answers and discussion I asked for…that’s all. Sometimes you have to provoke the answers out of people.

You haven’t seen me when I become a real Dk!

Well OP, I think you missed an option.

Clearly our options will not change things. What will? First, people have to get so mad, so affected they finally do something. Something other than chant slogans and put a bumper sticker on their car. Second, the ability and resources for the people and system of abuse have to be removed.

So, how do you get people mad and take away the power and resources of the tyrants?

You elect the guy whose policies and practices will collapse the system they are abusing. Only then can the system be rebuilt. Our system is so broken and diseased, it cannot be repaired. It can only be demolished and rebuilt.

Those in power know this. It is all one big game of Jenga for them. They take and take from the bottom, building up the top. They know its all going to fall eventually. They are all just vying to see who can get the highest and win.

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
So you're looking for honest conversation and a real answer but you attack every post anyone puts forth. Suck up your sarcasm and maybe this thread will go somewhere and a answer will be found.

Come on over, we're trying!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by neo96

Right villians: Social Security,Welfare,Medicare,Medicaid, Free education, and craddle to the grave nanny state.

Left villians: Banks,Corporations,Evil rich,Guns,salts,transfats,global warming,etc

There is no consensus or common ground the great partisan divide.

What you’ve described is the false left/right paradigm that conservatives have to hear about over and over and over!

You described things NOW…and I no matter whicj Obamney gets elected the cycle will continue.

We’re in agreement….that’s the reality.

Honestly not much because of a fundamental lack of understanding of how the system works. Candidates and us have our ideology that we cling to and defend on a daily basis.

But once in Washington that ideology meets the hard cold reality that there is only so much that can be done.

I think it’s up to us to call bullST on this….like our forefathers did!

The question is HOW…because revolution isn’t in order. When feds knock on my door and tell me to round up my family for a FEMA camp or tell me to turn over my guns (or anything else) then my own personal revolution will ensue!

That’s a fact, jack

I doubt that they are here to say they are just war cryies at the moment to polarize and energize bases so they can maintain their power.

I damn well hope you’re wrong but that seems to be our reality.

Pray for a zombie apocalyspe because that is about the only way anyone is ever going to restore this country.

It all needs flushed.

I like we can fix it.

reply to post by seabag


I like parties maybe you guys are talking about a different kind of party, the boring, serious type. Well, I haven't partied in years so I guess it will be alright if it's a little serious.

Originally posted by Wolf321
Well OP, I think you missed an option.

Clearly our options will not change things. What will? First, people have to get so mad, so affected they finally do something. Something other than chant slogans and put a bumper sticker on their car. Second, the ability and resources for the people and system of abuse have to be removed.

So, how do you get people mad and take away the power and resources of the tyrants?

You elect the guy whose policies and practices will collapse the system they are abusing. Only then can the system be rebuilt. Our system is so broken and diseased, it cannot be repaired. It can only be demolished and rebuilt.

Those in power know this. It is all one big game of Jenga for them. They take and take from the bottom, building up the top. They know its all going to fall eventually. They are all just vying to see who can get the highest and win.

edit on 4-6-2012 by Wolf321 because: (no reason given)

I never really liked history much, but my senior history teacher in high school was an exception to that rule. He was amazing, he got us involved. He loved telling us about it in "story form" with odd facts that weren't in the books...
I remember him talking about the constitutional convention like he had been right there in the middle of it. He told us about how scared they were, about how they knew that their very lives were in danger for even THINKING about what they were doing, let alone doing it. He told us of them being secretive and meeting in the dead of the night, locked in a room where nobody else knew what was going on. It was like they were planig a bank heist, very protective, scared to death, but forging ahead anyway.
We need that kind of bravery today. We need it from people who are mid to high level in the government. The people who can get it accomplished. They need to get together, in a small group to start, say "this is what we need to do", then getting to work on doing it.
If they succeed, it would be the dawn of a new era of our civilization, but if they fail... it would be called treason, and it's very frightening.
Shakespere probably said it best, "we rather bear those ills we have then flee to others we know not of"... Hamlet knew all too well what ills could fall on the human soul, but what can we do to change the course of the river? What do we do, how do we do it... many questions and so few answers.

Originally posted by knoledgeispower
reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

 

Pretty darn well... America's still the best country in the world, the freest nation, and the best place for a person to be successful in regards to equality, discrimination, and civil rights.

Lol yea right, America is not the freest nation. it is not the best country in the world, it's more like the worst country in the wold & it most certainly is not the best place for a person to be successful in regards to equality, discrimination and civil rights.

1940 – Iceland decriminalizes homosexuality, 1942 – Switzerland decriminalizes homosexuality, with the age of consent set at 20 & 1944 – Sweden decriminalizes homosexuality, with the age of consent set at 20 and Suriname legalizes homosexuality. 1972 East Lansing, Michigan and Ann Arbor, Michigan and San Francisco, California become the first cities in United States to pass a homosexual rights ordinance.

I could go on with other examples of how America is not the best place for a person to be successful in regards to equality, discrimination and civil rights. Don't even get me started on your healthcare.

America has been running on creating fear and hate amongst people for decades and the focus of their hate & fear changes with the times but is always there.

If you are a citizen of another country and want to get duel citizenship with America you have to get rid of all other citizenships and apply to be an American citizen, then you are allowed to go and regain citizenship from the other country(s). America is a melting pot for culture, other countries like Canada is a mosaic of culture.

When Americans move to Canada they are all "America's #1!!" but after a couple years of seeing America for how it is without all the propaganda involved then they see how it's not that great after all.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Take a look at history and you will see just how "wonderful" America really is.

Not that I didn't enjoy your little history recap about different nations addressing civil liberties and freedoms over time... Has the US not addressed these issues?

Next, can you break down the history of slavery and voting laws, and cast a completely ignorant shadow over the shifting paradigms, misrepresenting the underlying notion of a nation that is built on a Constitution that aims to provide the best possible means and avenues of establishing or further defining the rights and freedoms of its citizens.

Don't get you started on our Health Care? BUAHAHAHA. I'm sorry, but to even address this is fruitless... considering you have an apparent dislike for America, I'm guessing 'pro-canadian healthcare' and a progressive nature... put those three together... I will go no further lol.

There's not a single damn thing in between me and my success. Those who take this attitude, and live in America... succeed.

America running on fear? Yeah, no rebuttal there... that tactic is well played by the propaganda machine. Unlike what propaganda you may have observed though... not all US citizens take MSM at face value, and 'don't believe the hype'... there are some critical thinkers out there.

Anyways.... you seem to like to bash the US system, that's great and all... but try experiencing and living it. You think I've never heard Canadians who moved to the US talk about how much better the US is? I mean cmon... I've lived in Minnesota and Wisconsin all my life, those hosers are all over the place(kinda, not really lol). I've heard both opinions as to who's has the best systems and such.

You know what I like... NO QUEENS PRIVY COUNCIL, that I don't have to utter the words 'Her Majesty', and never have to ever consider such labels as 'ministers of the crown' and 'ROYAL PREROGATIVE' ... get it?

I truly don't care to argue about Canadian politics, such as... I respect your nations sovereignty, and don't care to influence any aspect of it. It's not my place, I know my place... and that's to lead by example. What's your place... to sit there and bash another country that you truly have no understanding of?

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by superballs
i keep reading threads about how america is gonna fail

only thing is your never right.. you keep sayin its imminent but its been goin on for years lol

when is it gonna happen?

Take a look outside.

Go for a walk.

Remove your head from your rear cleansing device.

It already happened.

its only happened in your fantasy world

wake up

reply to post by nenothtu

Third parties (or fourth, fifth, or eighteenth parties) tend to get the attention of the major players when they start gaining steam. The Tea Party got co-opted by the neocons before it developed as a party, when it first appeared on the radar as a danger to them. Likewise OWS and the Democrats.

What is needed in a true third party is voices from BOTH of those sides of the people, to keep each other honest and throw the skids on an attempt at a major party takeover - neocon attempt, the left wingers scream bloody murder and set their feet down... progressive takeover, the right-wingers scream bloody murder and dig in their heels. I have hope that's a possibility, because every now and then I see Constitutionalists from both sides of the Great Divide. If they EVER get together on any points of agreement and start moving.... Katie bar the doors, because it'll be a hell of a ride!

I always enjoy your take on any situation!!

There already is a third party…it’s just owned by a fringe group. I see your point about people from both side moderating the third party but that has never been. The third party now is comprised of libertarian/green party people….extremists by some standards.

Here’s my proposition and I’d like to get your take.

What if we FORCE a complete reset, demand that any/every newly formed party be allowed to form and be represented, drop the electoral college, install NEW voting laws and practices for fairness, then go to a popular vote?

We can have a nationwide/all party primary; every party gets a candidate but you have to meet a minimum vote count to move on. Then we move to the general election with the parties that survived and we find a POTUS by MONITORED popular vote election?

reply to post by seabag

I think it’s up to us to call bullST on this….like our forefathers did!

We are so far removed from the forefathers it is not even funny we have been left a legacy and we have disgraced their memories all for empty promises, and sweet nothings whispered in our ears.

We shame all those who have become before us.

reply to post by Wolf321

Well OP, I think you missed an option.

Clearly our options will not change things. What will? First, people have to get so mad, so affected they finally do something. Something other than chant slogans and put a bumper sticker on their car. Second, the ability and resources for the people and system of abuse have to be removed.

So, how do you get people mad and take away the power and resources of the tyrants?

You elect the guy whose policies and practices will collapse the system they are abusing. Only then can the system be rebuilt. Our system is so broken and diseased, it cannot be repaired. It can only be demolished and rebuilt.

Those in power know this. It is all one big game of Jenga for them. They take and take from the bottom, building up the top. They know its all going to fall eventually. They are all just vying to see who can get the highest and win.

I see your point and agree that the current system must be toppled before we’re going to get the constitution back but who is going to do that?

I already laid out the reality…Obomney (Obama or Romney) is going to get elected? Do you disagree?

RP is gone and we have a certain reality to face in January!

It is what it is…now what?