Were you in the "Gifted Program" ?

a reply to: Roundtree

I was in these programs from 1st grade till i finished high school at 16. It was pretty stupid but it did help me out in high school because i was the only freshman able to be put into all the AP classes. I didn't even have to finish grade 10 because i was able to graduate early. It was pretty cool to see all my friends drop out of school while i was able to stop going because i graduated.
I didn't read through the replies but i will bet everyone here is saying they were in it and the few who didn't make it in are saying that they purposely failed the tests so they wouldn't have to be in the gifted program.

I somwhat doubt their forumula for finding the 'gifted' is without fault and subjectivity. Gifted is as gifted does.

originally posted by: InTheLight
I somwhat doubt their forumula for finding the 'gifted' is without fault and subjectivity. Gifted is as gifted does.

Absolutely, InTheLight. "Identification of the gifted" as it is described in many of the papers has been a long researched topic over the last several decades. There is ambiguity involved with it and it is actually subjective (gifted to the state, I suppose). The entire program concept was drafted into being via the NDEA of 1958 after the USSR successfully launched Sputnik. This kicked off a realization that we were falling behind technologically and that identifying children gifted in specific subjects was paramount to national security. Heavy words but it is verifiable in that NDEA of 1958, which prompted Project Talent. Project Talent involved the testing and identification of students across the US in the hunt for the "gifted". Sounds nefarious in a way but it just meant that they started looking for a specific type of kid, which maybe doesn't sound any better, lol.

Trying to isolate just what they are looking for is problematic as there is no clear cut identification parameter anywhere. The closest one gets to any clarity is IQ over 130 and Renzulli's three rings. The IQ over 130 is "special ability" (small portion of the US). Also required as the other two rings--task commitment (motivation turned into action) and creativity. Other things I've seen mentioned are leadership and, in particularly fluency and special ability in STEM subjects and language. There will be talk about special abilities in the arts such as music or painting but those seem to be of less interest. Therefore, gifted to the state's needs perhaps and can be construed as limited.

I don't think anyone is saying that being in the 'gifted program' means you are gifted, or not. It just means that you were in fact enrolled in the gifted program. What program, and what transpired from the experience, is a whole 'nother issue.

Also note, for many of you from way back in this thread. Intelligence does not = success. Gifted does not ONLY = Intelligence. ETC ETC follow the trail.

Hi
I'm not sure why I Googled this topic. I guess I have some unfinished business even after spending tens of thousands of dollars to get over it. I was blown away after reading the posts' Thank you Roundtree for giving us a voice.

The memories I have are some clear, some vague, some flashbacks, some till blank. It's surreal that one person mentioned going to Gird because that was my home school. A lot of what they did was to get money for the school. In my mind we were mostly merchandise sold to the federal government to be lab rats. I am fairly certain that even my mother made money off of this.

I cannot recall what age that I was when I was given my first IQ test was but there were many #2 pencil tests and going to the psychologist tests after that. That makes me suspect that they were trying to find out if they could alter IQs because without manipulation of our minds, why would they think our IQs would change that frequently.

I also recall the weekly school sessions. But I also recall extracurricular checks. I was in glee club and I recall a day trip for certain members to go with other members to make an album of our music. No, really, who wants to have an album of a bunch of grade schoolers singing. Oh, and I never saw or heard an album. And, oh, I have an excellent memory and if I try to remember that day everything goes black. Then there are the Christmas vacations where I spent most or all of it at "grandma's house" and those memories are blank as well. And trust me, grandma's house was safe and I have lots of great memories about that. I believe they may have taken me out of state. Anyone else see the black helicopters or the jets?

I believe my brain was extensively studied, not because I had the highest IQ out of all the others, because I didn't, but because I also had other abilities they were interested in. My other gifts are that I am psychic (I hate that word but everyone understands it) and my photographic memory.

It was the cold war and our government was going to get ahead however they could, even if that meant destroying the souls of children. There were other things they did to me that I will only speak to my therapist about. It is unlikely that someone will find evidence of what they really did to children because as the Freedom of Information Act was about to come into effect, from what I understand, there was a lot of document shredding going on starting with what was done with kids. They were trying to train the perfect spy and my gifts made me a good candidate. But what they did to try and achieve, that was torture in the truest sense of the word.

I'm sure they watched me for awhile. I'm not sure that they still don't. I still have days that are blank and I can't remember a thing.

In spite of them, I became a good and decent person. I studied and went into a profession that helps many people. That is how I gave the bird to the US government. I decided not to be like them and I decided that their actions will not make me as evil as they are. My life is now about doing good so that evil does not take over the world. After all Edmund Burke said, "“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” If we don't do positive things in our lives then they win and we lose. I don't know about the rest you, but I am a winner and I will continue to make a positive impact on this world until my dieing breath. This is a decision we have to make.

Sincerely
Morgandy a reply to: Roundtree

a reply to: Morgandy

The dust bunnies must've been stirring. I did the same thing a few years ago and it got my head a spinning. That's why i started doing so much digging on the subject. I found my super memory falling short and didn't like it. Not one bit. I prefer the term guinea pig though as guinea pigs are cuter than rats. Sort of.

As far as what is out there in terms of the program, much isn't available online, even behind paywalls. I looked at over 1000 abstracts on the subject of the gifted from the late 19th century to present. I'd say that maybe 10% (if that) were actually online. Most weren't and housed in universities for library access only. Still, the abstracts themselves were interesting and to watch the themes and goals move over time through the decades, particularly after the programs were mandated, was strange to say the least. Definitely an eye opener for sure (a few of which I have plunked down here).

Digging into it, mostly what's found is basically researchers writing their findings, conclusions, concerns, or suggestions. Trying to find school specific curriculum for any given time period just really didn't happen a whole lot. Oddly enough, the best link was to the NSA academics page to get an overview of standard curriculum stuff and that probably lent a hand towards that "spy" feeling as we were where they'd tap shoulders for NSA and more (hell, the NSA has a summer intern program for high school age G&T). That still doesn't discuss the eccentricities that a lot of people do, like you, remember. I remember Zener cards, too. Gowan (top researcher of the gifted, was president of the NAGC at one time) wrote a bit about exotic abilities in the gifted. I also found that he discussed the subject with Mary Meeker of SOI--another name in the field of gifted education. Definitely was eyebrow raising but as far as proof goes? It runs dry and it seems like every time something crops up, it gets whisked off the net pretty darn quick. That bit is getting old. Really old.

Anyways, welcome. And yes, the P-word is infernal.

**One more thing--Stanley Krippner would be a link to some of the "p" stuff. He was a highly esteemed psychologist and parapsychologist, who was absolutely involved with the programs in the 60's til the 80's if I recall correctly. There's a deep dyve page somewhere listing him as one of the top researchers or something. Interestingly enough, he went to the University of Moscow in 1971, I think, to introduce the Soviets to the field of parapsychology and such things as telekinesis. By 1972, iirc, RAND was coughing up a paper on the same subjects and possible Soviet developments. So Krippner was involved in the programs and went to Moscow back in the day before the RAND paper was published to discuss those p subjects. I can try digging up the links to that again if you'd like. It's not direct evidence but it is curious indirect evidence.

To see Gowan's works (now deleted but still archived). Go to archive.org... and enter in www.csun.edu/edpsy/Gowan with the http plus forward slashes added back in (otherwise it will error) and click "show all". CSUN deleted the links sometime after July 2012 (after hosting them for 9+ years no less) so any time before there should get you to where you might want to read.

I was in the program for a few years back in elementary school (1st and 2nd grade taught by the same teacher for two years in a row, 3rd grade and a special school for gifted kids in the district for grades 4 and 5 as the same as 1 and 2.) Did all kinds of Chemistry/Physics/Biology stuff during the time the kids in my grade were doing reading since I was reading at a 7th grade level in 2nd.

Very fun stuff. Outside of iodine water purification, physics equations, balancing chemical equations and other things like having to do with dissecting a baby tiger shark, frogs or a cow brain, I barely remember the gifted stuff. I only remember the weird disgusting (To a third/fourth/fifth grade me the dissecting was gross but I did it because my parents assured me it was for the best) or the cool things like learning what I now seem to enjoy: survival skills from basic chemistry.

EDIT: It was called REACH at my school. Did some research back when I was on GLP and man.... some people over there talked about the military being involved and the NSA...

a reply to: This1000xThis

Nothing overt/direct that I've seen as per the general (ie USAF, Navy, Army and etc) military that I've seen. Agencies and other defense related entities such as the NSA, RAND (defense think tank), and DARPA--yes. The NSA would fall under the general DoD blanket. RAND is a mixed privately and federally funded think tank initiated by the USAF. It's a mixed bag of federal and private. DARPA is another that would fall under the general DoD. The DoD, itself, is massive.

Stick the http back in for these ones because they really don't like links to their pages apparently: www.nsa.gov/careers/opportunities_4_u/students/high_school/stem
Overall, the NSA has an interest in education. Helps to have little budding cryptographers and analysts, I suppose: www.nsa.gov/academia/early_opportunities/index.shtml

Rand has a variety of articles on the subject of gifted education. It has been a subject of their interest for a while:
www.rand.org...

As far as DARPA goes, it was created at the same time period as the gifted programs being mandated via the National Defense Education Act of 1958. Both were formed initially to basically respond to a general sense of falling behind the Soviets after the Sputnik launch. Congress wanted engineers, both at the moment and in the future.

books.google.com...=onepage&q=darpa%20gifted&f=false

Really, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise that the DoD would have an interest in the intellectually gifted. The act that created the programs was called the National Defense Education Act. The point was to keep us technologically advanced and assuring that our bright little nubile minds were being stimulated. Whether it worked or not (or just traumatized the crap out of us lol) is highly debatable. Highly.

We had something sort of like that. My school tested us yearly. The tests were reminicent of an iq test and those that scored highly were put into the accelerated classes. The teachers did not advertise that the classes were different but when my class was doing algebra and reading college level books when the other classes were learning multiplication we knew there was a difference. After about 5th grade the gifted students were no longer just in the same class but given a schedule based upon their strengths. I had all of the top level teachers and remember being given solo assignments weeks before anybody else in the class. Once I made it to highschool I was in the highest classes too until i finished my gen-eds and just picked electives. I could have graduated after my sophmore year but stayed to be with friends and pick up knowledge in subjects of my choice.

We never had special gifted field trips but the more gifted kids were usually grouped together. Normally I would just think that this was about getting kids of a similar speed together for class but the annual tests were moderated by a sort of "government" employee in a suit and if somebody really excelled (as I did) they were set aside for special tasks well above their grade level. I remember when I did calculus in 7th grade and got frusterated because I wasn't just getting it.

Ah yes, ATS, it's no wonder I was attracted to this community, it's clear we were all talented, gifted and incredibly special. I too, was in the Gifted Program as a child, my preschool teacher picked up on it first. She noticed that I never colored inside the lines, clearly a sign of genius.

As I got older I was always placed in AP classes where I clearly displayed my superiority by refusing to learn the material and thusly "graduating" back to the regular classes with regular students. I was obviously a genius and therefore graduated with a C average. I then took my genius to the local community college where I continued to refuse to learn algebra and English.

The government was watching me the whole time as I took weight training, judo and intro to acting at the local college. They knew I was a genius and were just waiting for me to do something brilliant. But I was on to their game of trying to make me into someone successful and productive, I brilliantly continued to fail.

Now, as an adult, I look at all the average jerks from my high school class, they've now morphed into a bunch of losers. You know the type, doctors, lawyers, millionaire business owners, etc. I'm still denying society my genius by continuing to work menial labor jobs, study Internet based conspiracy theory and live in my little sisters renovated garage.

In short, ATS, all us geniuses are the real winners. All these college grads, scientists, researchers and financially successful business people are pawns. Thank God we didn't end up like them. We showed them.

We didn't have a gifted program at my school, but we did have IQ tests around 8 years old. After that I starting skipping grades, every other to be precise. I was given studies that focused heavily on science and math. I didn't mind the science part...

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
a reply to: This1000xThis

Nothing overt/direct that I've seen as per the general (ie USAF, Navy, Army and etc) military that I've seen. Agencies and other defense related entities such as the NSA, RAND (defense think tank), and DARPA--yes. The NSA would fall under the general DoD blanket. RAND is a mixed privately and federally funded think tank initiated by the USAF. It's a mixed bag of federal and private. DARPA is another that would fall under the general DoD. The DoD, itself, is massive.

Stick the http back in for these ones because they really don't like links to their pages apparently: www.nsa.gov/careers/opportunities_4_u/students/high_school/stem
Overall, the NSA has an interest in education. Helps to have little budding cryptographers and analysts, I suppose: www.nsa.gov/academia/early_opportunities/index.shtml

Rand has a variety of articles on the subject of gifted education. It has been a subject of their interest for a while:
www.rand.org...

As far as DARPA goes, it was created at the same time period as the gifted programs being mandated via the National Defense Education Act of 1958. Both were formed initially to basically respond to a general sense of falling behind the Soviets after the Sputnik launch. Congress wanted engineers, both at the moment and in the future.

books.google.com...=onepage&q=darpa%20gifted&f=false

Really, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise that the DoD would have an interest in the intellectually gifted. The act that created the programs was called the National Defense Education Act. The point was to keep us technologically advanced and assuring that our bright little nubile minds were being stimulated. Whether it worked or not (or just traumatized the crap out of us lol) is highly debatable. Highly.

www.nsa.gov...

www.nsa.gov...

www.nsa.gov...

www.nsa.gov...

www.nsa.gov...

www.nsa.gov...

I'd go find it on GLP (But I'm banned,) that they found a program list that teachers can use to plan a lesson plan. Math, Reading, Language.... list goes on and on.

a reply to: This1000xThis

Thanks for posting those links. I don't go to the GLP because it's uhhh..."interesting". What you're referring to is located on the MEPP section by clicking on the "concept development units" hotlink. Those concept development units are broken down into three groups: elementary, middle and high school like (hopefully) the below link for elementary level:

www.nsa.gov...

Again though, none of this should be really that surprising when one thinks about it. The programs were mandated by Congress to basically close a perceived gap between the US and the former USSR. Finding the best of the best and introducing them to fundamental concepts for differing national security fields is a logical step. It's just not terribly comfortable when one thinks about it and happens to be in that programs' line of sight. I think that's why so many of the gifted (myself included) do have that sense of being watched or noted amongst the crowd. Whether it's neurotic or not is not readily answerable but, if it is a neurosis, it's pretty explicable because we were noted and observed when we were children.

In short, if it's neurosis, then the program likely gave us that neurosis. It's one of the reasons why I'm not a huge fan of the programs.

I was in the MGM program in Sunnyvale, California during the late '70's. Nobody ever told me why I had to be part of it but the other kids called us Mentally Gifted Morons because they didn't understand what was going on.

In MGM I have very little memory about what went on during the classes, but I do know that we studied things that didn't seem to make any sense to me. For instance, we studied a document about some town somewhere and all of the statistics thereof. When it was incorporated, how many people lived there, what most of them did for a living, etc. I never did understand what I was doing there at all. I never understood why we were studying those types of subjects.

My later school career was not good and I would undergo testing year after year. I wish I knew what it was all about.

by the time i was 6/7/8 y.o at primary school
i was already thinking 'some of these teachers are witches'
and for some reason thinking
'when the war comes my school is part of the defence thing'

years later all those "special classes", blank memories & other weird childhood events start to make at least a little more (non)sense when info. like MKU starts popping up..

these days i just think "devil-people" run the planet
much simpler..


...i wonder if our posts like this get filed under a date system, chronologically, and cross-referenced with earlier records pertaining to school etc, or is it still maybe like a manilla folder thing in a filing cabinet maybe? and they just toss some hardcopy of this into the same folder, slamming the cabinet shut & go back to their zombie bagels? ..it's questions like that that can keep a person up at night

originally posted by: Apoceclipse
I don't think anyone is saying that being in the 'gifted program' means you are gifted, or not. It just means that you were in fact enrolled in the gifted program. What program, and what transpired from the experience, is a whole 'nother issue.

Also note, for many of you from way back in this thread. Intelligence does not = success. Gifted does not ONLY = Intelligence. ETC ETC follow the trail.

I would agree. I was in such a program, and my life is a monumental failure. Only 2 other people in the program with me went on to any sort of academic success. One who is currently studying for his Phd in classical literature (to become a career academic) and another who went on into the field of science as a career lab tech.

Other notables OUTSIDE of that class who weren't selected or failed the exams include a professional wrestler who probably makes more in a month than I ever will in a year, and various entrepreneurs and blue collar guys that now currently drive sports cars while I am still stuck walking to college at the age of 34.

I think it's very important to note that not everyone who was in one of these programs views it as a badge of honor. If anything, I look back on it as what the school system could have been (maybe even should have been).

In the end, this subject would be better served by addressing why the school system tends to fail for brilliant people, instead of a giant circle jerk full of those who somehow think they are intellectually superior because someone gave them a pat on the back in the 4th grade.

a reply to: Roundtree

GT. 90%

a reply to: Roundtree

yes. all of my life. First, in Holland, P.A. I was in Humanities at age 5 till I moved at 7after first grade to fort mill S.c. whereupon I took the terra nova (because apparently the better iq test id taken in p.a didnt matter and I had to take their dumb test, too) and was placed into G.T. (gifted and talented). from there, I was pulled out and tested along with one other boy in my class, who was coincidentally the teacher's son. I know it was memory games and patterns and such. the people were in suits. it was similar to what happened to me at the behest of apparently my dr. when I was entering kindergarden in P.A. I dont really remember either experience but I assume it was something experimental. In s.c. I actually was sent to teach a class to the grade below me every wednesday and thursday after lunch. about calligraphy, due to the scholastic fair. (got a free $22 book out of the deal. hot dog. honor kid swag lol) I moved to W.I for 6th grade and was in Honors and then A.P...Also was a member of N.H.S & I am an A.P. Honor Scholar phew that was a mouthful haha

I just wish all kids were taught like honors kids. I think that there would be a lot of good that whould come from that. Overall my honors experience was quite positive and I made lasting connections with many of my teachers, whom I adore.

p.s. on mobile atm so sorry about the lack of capital letters in parts...got lazy xD


oh and I was in the psychology learning community at loyola university chicago (which was akin to honors). that is, until I lost so much weight due to starving...got down to 84lbs (im 5'2) from 120 ish. then developed anorexia purging subtype and spent my days being masochistic and puking till nothing was in my stomach...and lost even more weight. had to go on medical leave after my first semester (2009/10) and yeah...now im part time at a tech college getting credits and currently suffering a minor relapse. been anorexic since age 13ish. I am 23 now. Teachers knew in highschool, failed to stop me. tis rather unfortunate. hopefully I will stop being a moron soon so that I can move forward.


still passed all my classes that semester though, but I did withdraw from bio so I only had 4 classes. got bs and two cs that time. not bad given the circumstances >.< sorry. trying to be lighthearted about it. I really am ok. physically ive been quite lucky not to have any sort of damage besides some reflux.

a reply to: UNIT76
LOL I daydreamed about shyt like that, too! I feel like we would have had fun laughing at the weirdness that was honors class together had we been in the same class.

a reply to: Roundtree

I was for awhile. Until I asked to be sent to my regular classes. I felt like I was being kept away from my friends, and the situation did not seem right. My parents finally bowed to my demands to move me back to regular classes.

Did I make a bad decision? We shall see.