I make my own liposomal vit C. This stuff is frickin AMAZING!!!!!

Originally posted by Screwed

There are many people here who are interested in the ideas put forth by the OP and nothing you can say is going to change that. We are all well aware of your opinions on the matter but no amount of force OR logic is going to change the fact that this is a topic which people want to explore.

I find it unfair that you are so adamant to stop me.

I never tried to stop anyone doing anything.
I never said once "Don't do this". Didn't say it a single time.

But on the other hand, you are asking me to stop posting here.
So actually it is you who is dishing out demands, not I.

I was dishing out questions that revealed the belief system to be fallacious. That is all.

I have nothing against you or anyone.
I was actually questioning things to myself in a way, and as my thoughts progressed they were refined and my opinion developed as new ideas were presented. It was 100% innocent.

The only reason it appears to be malevolent to others, is because (I assume) they are indoctrinated into a belief system that utilizes ridicule and anger to suppress alternative opinions.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by MegaMind

Originally posted by knightsofcydonia
too much vitamin C will constipate you.

No its really quite the opposite. I know been there - done that.

Yes, person 1 can come in and make a 100% false claim. But it's not trolling.

Person 2 can claim they got super powers, again 100% false. But not trolling.

Someone questions it, and guess what? TROLLING!

Don't you just love modern social dynamics?

Nice diversion but not going to work.
Questioning is NOT trolling so we both agree there don't we?

Making the same point countless times and refusing to stop would be trolling.
I am already in danger of trolling myself so I'll bow out, out of respect for the OP.

See how that works?

You try.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I had to chime in because muzzleflash... Comparing humans to cavemen is idiotic in it's own. It's called evolution. Bodies change, minds change, technology changes. Maybe vit c supplements would've helped them... How the he'll do you know otherwise? It's not about survival, it's about reaching a pinnacle of health with the resources given. Why not try advances in sciences to further health and life? I applaud those who try and accept those who don't. I'm glad people are trying to improve things for the future. If it's harmless, why not? You'll see results, either it helps or it doesn't. Either way this stuff won't kill you. Everyone needs to quit crying because this is not even close to anything big enough to worry about. Running away with this topic and making it all about the philosophy between supplement v. Food is a shame and muzzleflash owes the OP an apology. Don't worry we are all still gonna eat. Food is gooooood!!!

reply to post by Screwed


I asked a whole lot of different questions.

But really it's funny that when someone questions a religious belief, they are automatically the new subject as the old subject should be ignored until this "problem person" is dealt with.

How many posts have been about the persona and avoiding the questions that persona presented?

There is no such thing as 'trolling'. Trolling is a blanket term that describes anyone you don't agree with. Simple as that, it's entirely subjective and used as pejorative.

Anyways, back to the subject of how even though we are one of the few animals that don't make a lot of Vit C, that we want to reverse nature's decision and put 1000x natural dosage of it into our systems when we aren't even sick. It's like the new type of energy drink you know? But way cheaper!

But to be honest I would totally support this over Red Bull or 5hourEnergy anyday, as a energy drink. Those caffeine drinks appear to be very unhealthy.

So I personally would be 100% behind this if it were promoted as an energy drink with (possible health benefits), and as a laxative that would work also.

Originally posted by Poopooplatter
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

I had to chime in because muzzleflash... Comparing humans to cavemen is idiotic in it's own. It's called evolution.

Neanderthal Genome Shows Most Humans are Cavemen

It took four years for Pääbo’s team to assemble a working sequence from DNA in the bones of three 38,000-year-old Neanderthal women, found in Croatia’s Vindija Cave. The sequence, published May 6 in Science, covers about 60 percent of the entire genome.

Though much remains unfinished, researchers were able to compare the Neanderthal genome to the human at 14,000 protein-coding gene segments that differ between humans and chimpanzees. Researchers link these proteins to changes in humans’ cognitive development, physiology and metabolism.

At all but 88 of those hot spots, Neanderthals were no different than us. The differences are so slight that the researchers suspect them to be functionally irrelevant. If more genomes could be compared, there might be no differences at all.

Let's see here, your opinion on a forum vs actual research by scientists who provided all their work for us to look over?
Tough decision.

Forgive me if I side with actual science this time, although your opinion is appealing.

Originally posted by IAmD1


However by encapsuling the vitamin C in this way you are in essence creating a fat soluble vitamin C (hence the lipo which means fat).So an overdose is I suppose more likely in this form. If vitamin C was ment to be a lipid soluble then it would be so naturally. I'm inclined not to believe this is such a great idea, especially not on a daily basis. However as a therapy for severe illness it may be marvellous and much safer than some of the traditionally used medications.

The danger with fat-soluble vitamins are their tendency to accumulate in the body. The liposome is still just a carrier. When Natural News and other people are talking about how Liposomal Vitamin C has a greater bio availability, they're referring to how the lipid bi-layer allows for greater intestinal absorption. It will help delivery cell uptake; however, in the end, it's the liposome is simply a transporter that delivers its contents from point A to point B. This is a technique that is commonly used in pharmaceutical drugs; not so much in vitamins.

Vitamin C, being a hydrophilic, water-soluble vitamin, isn't easily stored, but is readily excreted in the urine. Once the liposome molecule delivers ascorbic acid to the cell, the ascorbic acid can enter the bloodstream independently of liposome (or any other transporter) because vitamin C is water soluble.

So....the lipid coating on the outside of a molecule of Vitamin C is there for transport reasons only.

reply to post by muzzleflash


One big difference Muzzleflash, that you just can't seem to get. This is NOT a religion, nor a religious thread. It's a HEALTH thread. You keep badgering people, challenging them actually, and seem upset that they CHOOSE not to engage with you.

You are obviously unhappy with your feedback here...why do you keep trying to load a gun, and step in front of it?

It makes no logical sense to me.

Des

reply to post by muzzleflash


Not everyone's bodies work the same.
As stated earlier,(now I'm doing it) I have an extremely slow metabolism and it is really burdonsome as well as nausiating for me to eat the required government sponsored and approved amount of food in order to benefit from the necessary vitamin intake I should be recieving.

If you want to live so pure and caveman like I would suggest you throw out your toilet paper first and then we'll go from there. After all, the "Cave men" didn't use toilet paper and they got along just fine didn't they?

Ridiculous argument to say the least but hey, walk the walk and then I'll at least know you are consistant.

Originally posted by Poopooplatter
Running away with this topic and making it all about the philosophy between supplement v. Food is a shame and muzzleflash owes the OP an apology.

Apology for what? Being rational? Being inquisitive?

Wondering if the miracle drug is taken out of context and it's capabilities overblown due to lack of knowledge about our own history?

You thought that cavemen were genetically different than modern humans, and then you attacked me for it. Yet I should apologize...sure.

Why don't you apologize to me for judging me wrongly simply because I disagreed and then saying the suggestion was idiotic when I was actually 100% scientifically correct (links and source provided above)?

reply to post by signalfire

The basics of Linus Pauling's incredible award winning research was the fact that ALL mammals make their own vitamin C, except for us and guinea pigs.

Science lesson time!!!!!

Human beings do not consume vitamin C.. they consume L-dehydroascorbic acid Whereas nearly all mammals make Vitamin C in their blood, Humans Oxidize Vitamin C and convert it to L-dehydroascorbic acid. Our bodies then filter the antioxidized portion and transport to the cells, the rest is waste. We don't NEED to make Vitamin C because our method of absorption makes the usage of Vitamin C much more efficient (so long as you can Oxidize.. and not Oxidize to much. Ironically it's also what gives as a shorter life span because our bodies rely so heavily on oxidation it damages cells)

Other animals that make Vitamin C have to "digest" the Vitamin because their cells cannot breakdown oxidized Vitamin C and consume it. So they have to have far greater quantities to make up for their deficiency. Technically speaking.. Humans are more "evolutionary advanced" when it comes to Vitamin C consumption. Fact is Humans need only 70mg of Vitamin C per day.. the rest would be waste.

Here is another fun scientific fact for you: The average Orange.. the yummy citrus fruit.. contains 96mgVitamin C .. 160% of your daily requirement. Oranges also have carbohydrates, sugars, fats and protiens. That means the material in an orange makes the vitamin C stick to your cells! you absorb it.. NATURALLY. you're also getting a plethora of other nutrients, vitamins, minerals and by god.. it taste pretty damn good too.

So you can eat 1-2 oranges a day. OR .. you can create this garbage in the OP that taste like sour milk...

I'll take the oranges.

(nutritional info for raw oranges.. nutritiondata.self.com... )

So, uh, how did this thread go to 10 pages and 105 flags in a day? Seems weird for this sort of topic.

In any case, keep in mind the surface area of the small intestine where nutrients are absorbed is around 2700 sq. ft. All the blood from the small intestine goes through the portal vein to the liver. Once there even if there was something to this, the liver would just break it all apart anyway and you'd be back to regular old vitamin C.



Some issues with this: There's nothing wrong with absorbing "only" 16% of 12,000mg of vitamin C. In order to get that much vitamin C in real foods, for example, you'd have to eat around 171 oranges. ....and in the span of about 10 minutes. Under such unnatural conditions, the small intestine seems to do a fantastic job of absorbing vitamin C.

Vitamin C might be water soluble and cells surrounded by a phospholipid bilayer, but the nutrients still get in through active transport.

Liposome encapsulation overcomes all these bioavailability and cellular uptake restrictions because liposomes do not rely on SVCTs or any other carrier transport system. Instead, due to their size and composition, they are able to passively absorb through the intestinal wall and through cellular membranes. As a result, liposome-encapsulated nutrients (like Lypo-Spheric™ Vitamin C) provide a greatly enhanced bioavailability (delivery into the bloodstream) and greatly improved delivery into individual cells.

www.livonlabs.com...

Again, through passive and active transport, a healthy small intestine doesn't have problems absorbing vitamin C. Saying the "bioavailability" is enhanced is deceptive.. And even if it was, already from the graphic on their site, 98% of 20mg normal vitamin C is absorbed. If it was 100mg vitamin C, you can bet 98% would still be absorbed as well.

They forget, apparently, that all blood (nutrients) from the small intestine goes directly to the liver, where any lyposomes would be broken down.

Looking a bit more...

Liposomes, such as glutathione liposomes, work around this break-down, absorb, then re-assemble protocol. Because on the surface the liposome looks exactly as a human cell and the two will merge, very much like two soap bubbles will merge into one larger one. Liposomes are NOT digested. They are not broken down!

glutathione.wellwise.org...

It doesn't look exactly like a human cell and it won't "merge" like soap bubbles, that's ridiculous. Seems to be some weird ideas out there as far as this goes.

Originally posted by Screwed
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Not everyone's bodies work the same.

In some cases they do. In some they don't.

For example if I pour a ton of cyanide in your body, you will die.
In that context it doesn't matter who you are, it works the same.

However in the context of peanut allergies, only some people are affected drastically while others are affected minimally and don't even notice.

So yes we have degrees of difference but at the same time there are direct similarities between us all.

Is there anyway we can just buy this stuff? I did a google and went to shopping but im not sure if its legit.

S&F

reply to post by Turq1


Thank you for the post I was unaware of some of those facts.

You have made some compelling arguments and as a result, I will question them and look into the sources you provided for further clarification. If I cannot find an answer I will just ask you in another post.

Suggesting that the liver will break down the coating before it even reaches the intestines would actually nullify the entire process, as we would be back to the same place we started at.

I still cannot figure out why anyone needs 170 oranges worth of C in 10minutes though. Seems totally unnatural and it's usefulness has got to be limited to only a few applications when in such high dosage (medical).

reply to post by Screwed


Technically you have it backwards. A slower metabolism would mean you store nutrients (and fat) over a longer period of time before they are broken down and used and or discarded as waste.. so someone with a slower metabolism is usually "bigger", they expand cells to store nutrients. You would still need the average amount of vitamins as anyone else, but your body may store specific vitamins and minerals for a longer period. Meaning it's unlikely that you would need supplements more so than someone with say .. a fast metabolism.

Someone with a hyper-metabolism would consume food, digest and discard at a much faster rate. So if you consume a ton of nutrients, fats and proteins and do not "use it" by lets say.. working out or something.. your body will not store it, it's simply waste. Hence "naturally skinny" people. Folks like me can eat all we want, but unless I'm muscle building I won't gain weight because I'm programmed to remove excess much faster. Hyper-metabolisms will burn through nutrients much faster naturally.. if they don't consume enough nutrients, fats and proteins the body cannibalizes muscle to synthesize it's own nutrients.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Science lesson time!!!!!

Human beings do not consume vitamin C.. they consume L-dehydroascorbic acid Whereas nearly all mammals make Vitamin C in their blood, Humans Oxidize Vitamin C and convert it to L-dehydroascorbic acid. Our bodies then filter the antioxidized portion and transport to the cells, the rest is waste. We don't NEED to make Vitamin C because our method of absorption makes the usage of Vitamin C much more efficient (so long as you can Oxidize.. and not Oxidize to much. Ironically it's also what gives as a shorter life span because our bodies rely so heavily on oxidation it damages cells)

Other animals that make Vitamin C have to "digest" the Vitamin because their cells cannot breakdown oxidized Vitamin C and consume it. So they have to have far greater quantities to make up for their deficiency. Technically speaking.. Humans are more "evolutionary advanced" when it comes to Vitamin C consumption. Fact is Humans need only 70mg of Vitamin C per day.. the rest would be waste.

Here is another fun scientific fact for you: The average Orange.. the yummy citrus fruit.. contains 96mgVitamin C .. 160% of your daily requirement. Oranges also have carbohydrates, sugars, fats and protiens. That means the material in an orange makes the vitamin C stick to your cells! you absorb it.. NATURALLY. you're also getting a plethora of other nutrients, vitamins, minerals and by god.. it taste pretty damn good too.

So you can eat 1-2 oranges a day. OR .. you can create this garbage in the OP that taste like sour milk...

I'll take the oranges.

(nutritional info for raw oranges.. nutritiondata.self.com... )

edit on 6/1/2012 by Rockpuck because: (no reason given)

Well thank you for that lesson sir! You taught me a few things, namely the mg of C in an orange by average.

My intuition had pointed me towards this type of assessment.
And my realization of the history of our species reinforced it and further research into the matter is beginning to solidify it.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Fine point but didn't really address MY point.
It would be nice to find a vitamin supplement that would help with increasing energy levels which is why this thread has had so many followers already. WE ARE ALL F****ING TIRED!!!!!!!

I want more energy and would offer up my first born for it.
The Apple Cider Vinegar helps alot with this.
Also, I know I don't dring enough water.
I am like a damn Camel. I can literally go days without feeling thirsty especially in the winter.
My fault I know.

But if there are other things I could be feeding my body that would help with the energy problem,
I am on board.

Alot of scientist have used your so called "Logic" and "reason" in the past.
Alot of scientists look like complete ASSHOLES right about now too.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I just said our bodies and minds are different. Which they are. Once again you have turned this into a random research about genetics which is null and void. Our bodies now have to react to different strands of flu, and tons of other crap...wth man? The point is that times are different, we are different. Accept it.

Originally posted by Screwed

Fine point but didn't really address MY point.
It would be nice to find a vitamin supplement that would help with increasing energy levels which is why this thread has had so many followers already. WE ARE ALL F****ING TIRED!!!!!!!

# 1 Avoid processed foods.
# 2 Stay active
# 3 Stay hydrated
# 4 Eat more fruits/ veggies

# 5 - Now this one's really important -
Stop telling yourself negative things (Self-fulfilling prophecy)
Think positive, tell yourself that you can.
No more "i can't" it's not acceptable.

reply to post by Realtruth


The blood will be in a state of flux regarding pH level. I'm sure there would be a raise for concern if either A) Vitamin C weren't readily excreted from the urine and/or B) Cell uptake of vitamin c were inhibited in some form or fashion.

Now... Hyperglycemia WILL interfere with Vitamin C uptake as glucose and Vitamin C compete for the same cell receptor sites (sugar wins that battle because it becomes increasingly damaging as blood sugar rises). For most people, though, Vitamin C is excreted and taken up by the cells without much hindrance.

Plus, I don't put a lot of stock in the whole "Meat and dairy and eggs, etc., are causing a high acidic environment" thing. It has more to do with people aren't consuming enough Greens and are eating way too many easily digestible carbohydrates.