The Right/Left illusion...is NOT an illusion

No matter if it's male or female or how you dress it, a pig is still a pig.

I think if history shows us 1 thing, it's that parties flip and flop to ensure they maintain power. The examples posed in the OP to differenciate between Left and Right have been seen to be taken up or at least subtly taken on board by both sides at varying times.

In the end, I think the biggest illusion is that people are trying to be drawn into this falicy that we only have 2 options .. Black and White, left or right..

Really? are these 2 sides the only options in politics? Why is it that we never hear a lot about independants? They have a greater chance to provide accurate representation for their voters...

or better still why do we need representation? with modern technology, why not have SMS / TEXT based votes or an online forum poll where you get a text notifying you that there is a poll taking place on blah blah blah subject matter.

you then can visit the link there are some pages of info and links supplied by the community with information supporting both sides of each topic.

you vote on the poll

poll ends..

dominant vote wins..

it'd cost roughly what we pay in wages to these politicians and then we could have the community bring up new leglisation they want in.. and have the country vote it in or out..

and there we have it.. true democracy ~~

Between the lower echelons of the parties there are differences, most of them trivial in the greater scheme of things. But at the top there is no difference because the POTUS, regardless of their political leaning will still answer to the same bunch of scoundrels. I wonder who will be going to the Bilderberg meeting before the election.

About nearly everything of any real importance there is no difference.

You bring up social issues which is where the only differences really reside.

Abortion is never gonna be illegal in this country no matter what republican gets in the oval office.

Why? Because the puppet masters (NWO) want population control and they just love china's one child policy.

If a republican gets in office they will never push for a ban on abortions because their masters won't let them.

Same with immigration (look at Bush, McCain etc.)

Gay marriage? Just another thing to get Republicans all riled up into thinking - oh their party is oh so different.

Really those differences are all you could find out of the vast array of issues?

Foreign policy, War, National Debt - yeah like Obama is so different from Bush

Taxes - oh yeah republicans never raise taxes - "read my lips" Bush

Both R and D want bigger government and more control

BTW the candidates talk a lot when they are running (about all their differences) but when they get in all that changes and they continue the agenda the last one left off on.

Seriously it was Bush Jr. that made me realize that they were just puppets following orders from higher up ...

Hear, hear!

What really gets me is the people that espouse only one ideology in public, but hold different views personally. They're just too cowardly to admit it, fearing that their party of choice will reject them.

Yet as rational human beings, we are a mixture of liberal and conservative values. I'm pro-gay marriage, but I believe abortion is murder. I think Social Security should be chopped up into bits and buried in the four corners of the Earth, but I'm (mostly) OK with Medicare. There are a whole host of seemingly conflicting ideologies that I am full of, yet somehow I don't explode with the fury of a million suns.

I am just willing to be honest about it. Unlike so many others.

S&F

/TOA

reply to post by SaturnFX


Your point is a very good one Saturn, there are pleanty of ideals that devides the democrats and republicans. Here is a caveat though. Both parties seem to share negative traits.

Earmarking? Republican and Democrat.
Wasteful spending? Democrat and Republican.
Beholden to corprate interest? Republican and Democrat.
Misdirect when held accountable? Democrat and Republican.

Both parties seem to have similar SOP.

I think it's their ideal structure that is their biggest difference. Conservative or Liberal?
This is where things really get convoluted and seem to make both parties "the same". Why do i say this? Well like The Old American said people are generally a mix of both value sets. Some people maybe fiscally conservative while socially liberal. Etc.

The problem comes when you pick a party. The Reps. Or Dems. may have 7 out of 10 similar ideologies as you, but you still have to put up with 3 out of 10 things that you don't agree with to support that Party. And because this spectrum is so wide in either Party things become convoluted and begin to blur.

Both parties regularly take advantage of this to further agendas that "we the people" do not want. I think this has led to both sides constituents being highly frustrated with a system that should represent them.


Deny Ignorance.

reply to post by MegaMind


I must star you for this post my friend. I could not have said it any better myself. Why? Because I have said it myself many times as well. Right on the money. ~$heopleNation

Originally posted by Carseller4
I have found that people that think left and right are the same, are usually leftists.

Proof please??? Because I am anti war, small government, state rights, second amendment rights, pro choice, pro marriage equality, pro medical marijuana, anti affirmative action, anti taxes, want to end the federal reserve and taxes in general, anti illegal immigration, etc...

As you were saying???

I am loosing the will to live with this thread! The Right is funded overwhelmingly by big business. Please go to Washington and visit 101 Constitution Avenue. Look at the entire lobbyist industry. Look at the right wing ties there.Look at the one time poster boy of the lobbyists Jack Abramoff. As a result the right is completely against regulations??? Does anyone here think that Reagan or the Bushes were ever leftists????

Honestly I despair.

The left is funded by the unions.... The left is for regulation and does not trust big business and is seldom ever funded by it.

In between there is a massive floating pile call the liberals? These people tend to be the Whatever and are predominantly centrists. When the country moves to the right as it has recently donein the last 30 years the centre moves to the right also..

It is quite simple.

reply to post by Tiger5


The left movement in america is actually more right than the right movement in europe. This has been checked by people living in europe. If people want change they have to end the two party monopoly. Simple as that!

In order to understand Hegelian Dialectics, one has to realize that yes there are two polar opposites, but they are of the same coin. Look at a quarter. It has two sides, one has a head and the other has an eagle. Both sides are of the same coin but they have different pictures or images.
When people observe that the two major parties are the same, they are looking at the synthesis of the conflict of the two philosophies. That is what Hegelian dialectics does, it takes two opposing viewpoints, mashes them together in a conflict and then produces a synthesis. The way TPTB use this is to use the parties in "managed conflict" to use Antony Sutton's term.
Sutton says that the NWO is the synthesis for the Order of Skull of Bones.

Clearly by the responses here, people of the left are going to stay there, and people on the right also will not budge. People have been molded into certain mindsets. My dad used to tell me that once a person hits 30 they are not likely to make significant changes.

reply to post by TruthAboveIgnorance


Both parties have embraced Statism. Left embraces statism on one extreme and the right embraces it on the other extreme. Leftists typically believe that they are for more liberties, but then they embrace the Totalitarian collectivist ideals of forcing equal rights and income redistribution as well as environmentalist regulations through legislation.
The Right typically believes in building power through the military for defense of the nation but do not agree with the collectivist ideals, though many on the Right want to legislate things like definition of marriage and stopping abortion and such.

There are many variations of this with individuals having different ideas and opinions on certain issues.

Constitutionalists and Libertarians generally want smaller govt, less legislation, more real liberties, fewer taxes, less govt intrusion into their lives. For the Left leaners that may appear to be allowing abortion and things like that, whereas on the right it is going to be "don't make me pay for other people's abortions".