Are Afghans braver than US troops?,tell me about your experiences(With MOS)

as someones posted yes drugs are against islam
however that doesnt stop them
the majority of captured are blood tested (not primarily for drugs )
most dead are blood tested (autopsy ) so i say again
they are often found to have opates in their blood

hell pedophilia and homsexuality isnt permitted but ill promise you its rife
actual penetration of a child is forbidden how ever ( i forget the proper term ) dry humping the thighs or bum cheeks is not !
and often ends ibn penetration ( and not by mistake )
i am a quilified interrogator and have questioned many captured and accessed their phones and other digital devices - you should see the pictures

with regards to the drug production protection ( i have this thing about repeating myself so this is cut from another post of mine

Counter narcotics
2009- 2010 48% drop in opium production
However due to prices
438 mil usd in 2009
604 mil usd in 2010
Global rankings in opium production down from 66% to 63%
( 92% 2007 88% 2009 )

3787 hectares destroyed by mid may 2011

April 10- march 11
358% increase in heroine seizures
Arrested 157
77 were insurgents

the problem is ( again ive posted something similar before but cant find the post to cut from )
but in a nut shell
you cant just rock up and stop them from growing what provides for them, their family and their village - the country is beeing weened off poppy production , contrary to what many think aggriculture is a problem there - not just anything will grow

so some are still permitted to grow poppies while this transition takes place
the troops are guarding these farms to prevent intimidation of said farmers by insurgents/taliban/ local hoods into funding them/ stealling crops to get high or sell to fund their activities

imagine if some one turned up to the states and said - nope no more corn you can only groy soya beans and rice
how much of a disruption would that be - how long would it take to fully convert without destroying the food chain and destroying the economy/productivity

its not as dark and shadowy as you think - but then somethings are alot worse than you think

and while i have time
i shall comment on the use of mraps/armoured vehicles ect
body armour - its too big too heavy and cumbersome - id much rather go light
rather than being able to withstasnd eleventeen dragonuv rounds at point blank , id much rather be able to get out the way !
mraps / armoured vehicles

I BLOODY HATE THEM and avoid them like the plague
as do what i'll call experienced troops
- 99% of the time im in an minimal armoured vehicle (weapon platform)

yes you feel a warm fuzzy feeling being all bullet proof

however the problem with armoured vehicles is loss of freedom of movement, overall mobility AND SITUATIONAL AWAIRNESS
in a light vehicle yes i have minimal protection but i can 'go cross country off the roads and tracks and aviod choke points thus avoiding likely ied possitions

armour means weight
weight means you need to stick to roads and tracks - which is where the devices are placed ( its a waste of resources placing devices in open terrain )
so you just end up driving down ied lane in an armoured box
yeah the armour helps
so the enemy just use bigger devices

its a a pet hate of mine
some poor soldier gets killed in a ied blast
the coroner will say he died due to lack of protection and vehicle armour
the public complain
the gov complains and dislikes the press and statistics
so they throw on more armour
now im too heavy to avoid the choke points and HAVE TO USE the roads and tracks - thus making myself an easier target

id rather bloody walk !!!

Every poster her should take a look at the winter soldiers on youtube.
Really an eye opener regarding troops in afghanistan...

reply to post by NoLoveInFear46and2


lol no need here
3 winter tours
And countless op's
The afghan winter is hell - a cold day in hell infact
07/08 was the worst
+5 degrees c in the day
- 25 at night ( before you factor in wind chill )
Was the worst winter on record
Snow sandstorms electrical storms ( actually made the tip of radio antennas glow ) and cause electrical equipment to arc and zap troops
Flash flooding, mud flows ( like pyroclastic )
You could have every bit of warm kit in the world on, be in an artic standard sleeping bag and still be gibbering

My body's never recovered from that one
But I'd still rather be in an open vehicle or on foot

Didn't went through the entire topic, but I know what means to be brave:
To be brave is when you do things that you are not supposed to do for a just cause
To be brave is to make yourself bigger than an oposite force which is bigger than you
To be brave is to put your heart, body, mind and your very soul into the solution of a problem for a good cause

What definetelly is NOT to be brave:
Invade some foreign country that most of your compatriots never heard about, just because your government don't agree with theirs or even worst, pure financial interest
Killing entire families either by shooting them or by deprivation of supplies, because "their god" is not the same as mine
To murder indiscriminately anyone you are told to, because its your duty and you are "following orders". To follow orders its not the same as being a "shooting zombie", just because someone else told you to do it, doesn't mean its not your fault.

Bravery, its not only in the battlefield. True bravery, is to stand against things you believe to be wrong. The so called "war" in Afeganistan is nothing but a huge theater where blood is shed in both sides for a reason that none of the soldiers fully understand. The american soldier doesn't understand why he is there and the afghanistan soldier doesn't understand why the american soldier doesn't go home.

America culture is being at war in all times, there's always a "ism" to fight against: imperialism, socialism, comunism, nazism, comunism again, and now the terrorism. USA is the most fascinating culture in the world IMO, such a huge power and such a small wisdom to understand where to put this power onto.

And the only ones who can stop this madness is, guess who, YOURSELF.

But instead of fighting the real bad guys in your own homeland, you prefer to travel thousands of miles to fight an imaginary enemy that has been created for to be the image of all evil for the common man. The so called terrorism, is just one side of the coin. For every victim of a "terrorist attack", there are hundreds in the battlefield to avenge onto.

You keep bragging on how efficient the american war machine is. But you never question if its being used for the right cause! It baffles me how naive american people are and how stupid are your arguments!

If you're a soldier and fought across the seas, you are as dumb as you think the afeganistan people are. You left your family behind to slaughter somebody elses family, but as long as it is not your family, its ok. I will never understand how can you hug your children and not having in mind the children that will never hug their parents again because you were "following orders" to murder him.

Gosh! I'm so sick of american fatuity that makes me feel sick to my stomach!

Originally posted by Neocrusader
reply to post by Golf66

 

Some good points - and some good posts
But be carefull of over generalisation
I'm a commander - my English written skills suck
I spend very VERY little time in that environment
And my .........I won't say superiors ..... I'll say those of a higher rank tolerate my Written skills and attitude due to my other skills and abilities ( I'm forever getting pulled up on my military writing )

I'm a combat commander - the limit of my writing is patrol reports and annual assessments

1: Thanks for your reply and being in the profession of arms.

2: The "PRO" has claimed to be an American and a "Commander" of some kind. I was specifically refereeing to American Soldiers and Officers. While some few individuals with poor language skills will be able to advance most do not. As in the US Army even in Special Forces you spend the majority of your career not in Command of anyone/thing but your desk. Staff officer work requires written skills and the majority of your performance evaluations will therefore be a judge of your ability to communicate effectively in writing along with plan and coordinate projects of various types. I wish we could Command forever but that's not the way it is. Besides I'm not talking a Master's in English just common things that would jump of the page at any officer who regularly signs even rudimentary requests for supplies and such. If someone sent to an officer's desk something for your signature with the word "soldier" not capitalized it'd jump out like yellow highlighter - it's a military idiosyncrasy, same with being in Command.

Originally posted by Neocrusader

I am sf, the ability to write nicely isnt high up there in Required abilities

I guess it all depends on what level of unit you Command. In our Special Operations you will not make it past ODA Command if you have poor written skills. Our ODA's are lead by Captains and that is where we weed them out. Field Grade Command sort of requires the ability to read and write well and clearly. A good deal of one's time is spent in planning and correspondence. I don't know what nation you serve but of the Officers I have known in the Regiment who had earned their Majority all were very well educated.

Originally posted by Neocrusader
Makes me think about American sf ( and this is in no way a dig at you - just an observation )
Your all sf - or so you like to think
True US SF are the green berets, army delta, SEAL's ect
These are SF

I was a Special Forces Engineer Sergeant when I was enlisted and while I was a Military Intelligence Officer as a Lieutenant I was assigned to the Special Operations community for that short period before I could go back to being a SF Officer again.

Originally posted by Neocrusader
True special forcess don't wear a badge that says special forcess
Don't go on patrol wearing said badges

The only time I ever wore my rank and or unit patches in theater was for a trip to the rear, which was not my call either. Not that the beard wouldn't have given away my unit while tooling around one of the REMF camps.

My operators only had three markings on their uniforms when we were in our compound (or out in the area) – subdued US flag, IR patches and blood type.

Originally posted by Neocrusader
reminds me of a time in Bosnia
Some US officer draped in SF badges turns to some Brit and says
Hey man , don't see many if your SAS here
To which the Brit replied - well your not f###ing meant to, are you

There is a big difference !

Probably some Staff Officer is my guess.

Originally posted by Neocrusader

Pro
How's about we just get this settled

Most of my carrier is GENUINLY classified
However I could still fill half a page of posts with details of my carrier, experience and qualifications and will do do if some one required

How's about rather than just claiming your position you provide some substance to support it

LOL - I know right stating one's rank and specialty is not exactly a State secret is it. Even when I wasn't retired it was not much of a secret. What are classified are the operational things one has done.

I mean it says right there on my pay stub every month what it is and to what unit I am assigned. My bank teller knows it. My neighbors see me in uniform every day. Being in the military of a certain rank and assigned to what unit is not a big deal even if that unit is Special Forces. It’s actually a matter of public record. No one's rank and Command level are classified. Well, except maybe Delta or something. Google any SF group in the US and you'll see a photo of the Commander and CSM.

reply to post by Mkoll


Yes my true character is showing. I feel the middle east wars are unjustified occupations. They are not defensive wars. They are not defending us from anything. I guess I can congratulate them for being model Americans. Ok he goes "Good job on being easily misled, good job on doing what the propaganda you grew up on told you to do. Not only are you successfully programed but your also dimwitted, Congratulations your an American"

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Heck these afghanis don't even have the body armor that US forces do,

Our soldiers are also bound by politics where their lives are questioned after death and especially during voting. Also do not forget the requirements set forth by the Military to be in a combat. No doubt Wars/Conflicts are always dirty but neverthtless, the military is investing all it can in the safety of their troops upto certain extent. The dark side is that several industries depend on it.

and they manage to create these devices with what little they have, take the steps to place them on heavily guarded roads to stop incoming vehicles raping their country.

Well lets not forget the countries that are helping the afghanis/taliban with the opium trade (Pakistan, Iran, China etc).

Which part of flying a drone or shooting from a tank demonstrates bravery?

Do not forget that US is involved in a conflict thousands of miles away. Surely one way to meet the requirement of troops and offensive moves is to invest in unmanned drones. Do not expect our entire military to be in Afghanistan. After all, technology has also evolved and often times, such conflicts are used as testing grounds.

Do you know how much more body armor the US forces wear out of fear of these opium farmers?

Thats because the military upto certain extent is still liable for the safety and has to answer back folks back in US. The romans were heavily armored too. Does that make them cowards? No. Military Technology and Politics are too different things. The opium farmer has already lost everything (almost) and has nothing else to look forward to except fight for some money which the Opium trade provides (legal or illegal).

The Afghan forces are much more brave than US forces will ever be; US Forces are a fine example of cowardice.

So far in all your threads, your rhetorics and statements have been anti-american. Not that it bothers me but I think your views about the afghan soldiers is a bit sensationalized. Do you know how many afghanis are addicted to opium? Anyone under the influence of narcotics can be a careless and fearless killer (somalia is another such region where narcotics are used by the extremist groups to achieve their goals).

reply to post by Golf66


Star dude

Soz but you sounded a bit to staff officer ..ish before lol ( as you put it )
I was just a grunt - that got identified early and 'channeled' down the sf route
Worked with many of your sf and conventional forcess
Liked most of em lol
Didn't quite get along with the SEAL's
But delta were a good bunch
And the greens were a great lot
I've moved to something of quiter pastures recently
Something of a training/advisor/liaison role so spend a little more time than I used too having to type ( hey gotta love spell and grammar check ) and proof reading by by someone lol ) meh if it's not green or black and goes bang !!
Cheers for the reply and your input dude
Alas even when an afghani posts here ........ Some just don't get it !
Some just don't want to get it !
Trying to help others deny ignorence can be a full time job

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by cavtrooper7

 

We aren't invading Afghanistan we are fighting muslim supremacists in it

The afghan people would think otherwise. I don't care if you walked in with Jesus hugging you, it would still be an invasion and they are not going to like it, no matter what cause we think it is. It is their country and they know what they want with it, and if they want Islamic supremacists, well then so be it.

edit on 043131p://5America/ChicagoMon, 21 May 2012 16:11:37 -0500 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)

Then the afghanis can certainly work with Hamid Karzai. After all the president of afghanistan has allowed the NATO troops to work in their country. Whose fault is it now? Sure you can always argue that he might be a puppet but he is still a afghani.

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by eyeinoz
reply to post by cavtrooper7

 

when afghans fight they are not afraid to die ,here on earth is the stepping stone to allah..72 virgins when u get there..

If you'd bother to read the qu'ran, what they expect to receive after death is "gardens beneath which rivers flow", not virgins. But a lot of people allow liars to do their thinking for them.

Like this one from Pakistan (the real troublemaker in the region).

Maulvi_Preaching

Originally posted by bluegrassconspirator
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

Unfortunately, we in the West have rules out the yang to abide by during times of war. How 'bout we get rid of those and see how fast the cities of our enemies turn into desolate swaths of destruction. This war would have ended long ago were it not for those rules.

Agreed 100%. Its the rules of engagement at times that slows our military down.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


worked at Clearwire, when attending North American customers that were calling in to process cancellation of there services b/c they were going to military deployment, we had to show what the company stated: "empathy & understanding", while making a small remark "have a safe trip", 85% of the time they said, they would rather stay in there country and protect it than going to a foreign one to fight for someone else.

just a thought.

reply to post by Golf66

OOOOOH burned by interrogation,Hey pro you should see what he could get when he talks to you,it's scary.My ex hated that I could tell when she lied.

It can be said for most we don't want to into a get fight without a damn good reason.I do believe things are getting out of hand with deployments but as an 18 series friend told me There is a bigger picture of strategy at work here.And I was but a lowly full bird private,Spec 4.

reply to post by Golf66

I don't by it

Mistake in the second line? How do you expect to Command troops when you cant even command the English language.

I feel safe in my assessment you are full of Muslims – specifically Shiite.

I feel safe in my assessment you are full of Satans - specifically Rush Limbaugh.

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound thinking that you know someone?

It still does not take away from the fact that I am a Commander.

It still does not take away from the fact that US troops are coward hiding in their equipment and technology. Does not make them more brave than the Afghans if they shoot under the protection of air support, and other superior technology.

"Pro" your logic smacks of some classroom or a progressive book with little real world fact.As much as you expound your singular self serving opinions you never say what you achieved,what you have done.You are easily goaded into semantic braggadocio.And though you do have some correct facts your basic logic is only your own.None are right but you, yet you actually refute experts. Narcissistic personality disorder? Any how ,boy, you don't have history or logic on your side.Like a lawyer defending a murderer,you fail miserably to express your point so others besides you can understand.Thus a troll.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Come on pro .......don't make me come back there! .......again !

Do you realise how rediculous you sound, thinking you know Afghanistan ? when you've never been to my mate stans place !
I say my mate stan coz I love it there

And I'm still waiting for some proof of your claims .......that's a fact

The insurgents ( please stop saying afghans - your wrong dude just accept it move on, do you can divert your efforts better, and to be honest it's very insulting to the afghan people )
Hide within the populous - pop shots then blend in to avoid being targeted
Use human shields, including women and children
Have found a way to negate airstikes ( know response times )
ACTUALY USE BODY ARMOUR ......eh bet you didn't know that s**t
CQB drills now teach a failure to stop drill
Two in the chest - one in the face because of this
And the fact they are usually smacked off their tits so 5.56 won't nessasaraly bring them down in 1or2 rounds

much rather use 7.62 - like they predominatly use .....more stopping power

You keep saying that these are simple farm folk fighting a superior force

But then in other threads you rattle on how we trained/supplied/funded them, now and in the past ....... Well which is it ??
Half assed mountain boys - or well funded well trained freedom fighters ?

Again ........dude......some people here are genuinely trying to help you and others understand something that we have a better understanding than you about
I like many
AM NOT A BLIND PRODUCT OF THE KILLBOT FACTORY
If you could just see past your own prejudice, what you've been fed from the media and some of the politics you might just learn something - that will I promise you lead you on to much BIGGER fish
When your right I'll tell you
But when your wrong ill try to put you straight - though rarely you listen

Don't make me go get another box ! lol


Edit - yep - if you hadent guessed no more wifi or computer
Hence the bloody terrible spelling and somewhat scatty replies
As always sorry - typed in haste, in not the best of conditions ( meh you'll learn to enjoy my ......style shall we say )
But I'm not in stan at the mo ............dum dum dum !!!!!!!


Another edit - been thinking of a story to tell reflecting afghan/insurgent bravery vs that of a US soldier/unit that would raise a few brows
Alas I'm unsure of classification on many events so I'm just gonna go with
They are equally brave .........they've all been stupid enough to shoot at me lol

Originally posted by thecrippler

What it means to be brave is to put another humans life and well being before your own, no matter what the cost is to you. Offering up everything you have up to and including your life's blood is brave, when in the cause of another. To face what you fear the most, and not walk away because if you do someone will be injured or die, this is bravery. Self sacrifice is what is brave, but cannot be called so if you have any gain in the matter whatsoever.

Two wrongs do not make a right, we do not pick which evil we support as we can support nothing that is evil. Opposing all evil is what we must do. Taliban are evil, they have done such a great damage to the people of Afghanistan. You will never know the things they have faced at the hands of this evil. Majority of Afghani people want them gone from their country and their lives. The people cannot protect against them because they have been funded by the powers that be.

This in no way makes america right for going in under wrong pretenses, all the powers that be have long used the Afghan people, harming and injuring them for ends that are unjust, and immoral.

If we must stand with what is right then we must stand against what is wrong, even if that wrong was done by our own blood, because taking the stand is more than blood...it is a matter of soul. I stand against all injustice, no matter who committed it. These people who call themselves Taliban need to leave the Afghani people alone, these NATO people need to leave the Afghani people alone, these Saudi speakers need to leave the Afghani people alone.

Let them be, they have suffered enough at everyones hand.

Originally posted by Golf66

I feel safe in my assessment you are full of Muslims – specifically Shiite.

edit on 22/5/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)

edit on 22/5/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)

I take offense to such slander against the Muslims and the Shia, truly there was no need of this insult upon decent people.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by Golf66

 

I don't by it

Mistake in the second line? How do you expect to Command troops when you cant even command the English language.

Right, I did not correct your grammar...

I pointed out how a clear discrepancy in the language choices you made in construction betrayed your deception.

Huge difference. Nice way to throw up the straw man though.

A typo is just a typo - capitalizing Commander or say not referring to one's Soldiers as "they" in the context that you did would be second nature for any individual of significant rank in the military. I guess you could be a Company grade Officer or something. I doubt it...

No Commander worth the title would refer to his Soldiers by the term "they" when pointing out a deficiency - he'd say we or the unit or something not they. They - is a word officers don't use in conversation when discussing failure or shortcomings.

It is ingrained from day one - when your Soldiers fail, or your unit fails you have failed... No officer trainer would graduate an officer who blamed his Soldier's for a shortcoming.

If you are a Commander and your Soldiers are cowards - you have failed to lead them properly.

Period.