Are Afghans braver than US troops?,tell me about your experiences(With MOS)

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by cavtrooper7

 

We aren't invading Afghanistan we are fighting muslim supremacists in it

The afghan people would think otherwise. I don't care if you walked in with Jesus hugging you, it would still be an invasion and they are not going to like it, no matter what cause we think it is. It is their country and they know what they want with it, and if they want Islamic supremacists, well then so be it.

edit on 043131p://5America/ChicagoMon, 21 May 2012 16:11:37 -0500 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)

I have not read every post in this thread, this post is where I stopped reading and felt the need to speak.

I personally know sunni muslims who live in Afghanistan, In the beginning of this war the Afghani people were happy about the US desire to come and remove the Taliban from power there.. One man described life under Taliban rule thusly:

We were always in fear, it did not matter what you did, you could go to the masjid 5 times a day for prayers, never do anything wrong, but you never knew what they might find against you depending on their mood. Was my beard long enough? If our beard was not long enough they might decide to kill you on the spot.

Every day living in fear was why the Afghani peope helped the US soldiers. The US put them there, the US can take them out. Nevertheless, there are some Afghani people who now fight alongside the Taliban instead of helping the US military, this has to do with the length of time this war is going on, and the Afghani people still living in fear, but now it is fear of foreign military who isn't leaving.

So what to do? Neither side is brave, in my opinion, but if we were to choose sides I would not choose the side of the man who would kill or beat without thought innocent people. You do not know the Taliban very well at all if you are sitting here touting them as brave.

I would rather herald their death.

reply to post by woogleuk


Interesting story - desert storm 1
The US approaches the French foreign legion says 'we want you, as the finest desert troops in the world to spearhead the advance' to which they replied ' yeah sure, who's providing air support ? '
We are replied the US
the reply was something along the lines of, find someone else to go point

Star to the poster above
Thanks for your first post and your input

A significant number of enemy combatants are not Afghani in the first place fighting for physical and/or spiritual wealth. They use terror, murder, mutilation, religious oppression to keep themselves concealed and supplied and to keep the coalition from achieving anything useful for the locals. We build a school, they burn it down and mutilate anyone who went there. Really brave.

I am not going to applaud anyone who supports such tactics based on romanticized fantasy alone.

reply to post by Mkoll


Agreed. I was wondering whether I should add this fact, that the Taliban are not Afghani people, they were imported from many different countries, and most do not speak the Afghan dialect. The language barriers were a serious problem due to the fact that when Afghani people were being told to do something or asked a question they could not answer because they couldn't understand what the Taliban fighters were trying to ask or say. This caused a lot of problems, and many times innocent people would get beat and never know why...

Arabic is not one language, every dialect can be so different as to be more like the difference between spanish and english rather than the difference between British English and American english, for Arabic speakers the common dialect is Egyptian Arabic, but rural people who are uneducated and often illiterate only know their native dialect.

Great post and very important points.


I am off to watch TV, something illegal under Taliban rule.

Dear sweet Jesus it's you again...

You are still around?

If you think they are so brave and honorable, go live with them. See how great your life in a third world country is. They are not braver...those that are willing to blow themselves up in the name of religion are nut jobs. They way you talk, you belong right there with them.

You are nothing more then an America hater and a troop basher.

I have about 200,000 USMC brothers and sisters that will vehemently disagree with you and any of your retarded views. And I am pretty sure you took Sylvester Stallone's quote way out of context.

Your definitions of cowardice describes you to a tee...you sit back and mock without ever having been there.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Of course Afghanis are more brave, I will copy what I posted:

Their placing them against the most powerful military in the world to defend their homeland. Heck these afghanis don't even have the body armor that US forces do, and they manage to create these devices with what little they have, take the steps to place them on heavily guarded roads to stop incoming vehicles raping their country.

Which part of flying a drone or shooting from a tank demonstrates bravery? Do you know how much more body armor the US forces wear out of fear of these opium farmers? Do you know how many MRAPs are sent into service. The Afghan forces are much more brave than US forces will ever be; US Forces are a fine example of cowardice.


Definition of bravery:

1.
brave spirit or conduct; courage; valor.

Example in usage. The brave Afghani freedom fighters managed the courage to fight the mightiest military in the world

Definition of cowardice:
noun
lack of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.

Example in usage. The coward US troops managed to shoot from a tank.

Heck even John Rambo agrees LOL:

"This film is dedicated to "The gallant people of Afghanistan"

reply to post by Acid_Burn2009


I think the OP asked a perfectly reasonable question, you are confusing extremists with regular Afghan folk.

Not every Muslim wants to blow people up in the name of Allah.

Also, was it really necessary to use insults towards the OP?

reply to post by cavtrooper7


Too bad we can't resurrect the dead, brave jihadists & observe whether they'd repeat such bravery once more. I'm of the opinion the majority would not, electing instead to rob & control Afghanistan via government dictates as proper civilized nations do.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by cavtrooper7

 

Want to prove me wrong? fight without your air support, armor, backup, superior weapons, com tools,etc.

You are fighting smarter, NOT BRAVER.

As a previous poster said you are fighting for your PAYCHECK.

The afghans are fighting for their COUNTRY and GOD and put all of their heart to defend what little precious things they have.

MY troops are hiding in MRAPs

Well they are, are you denying this fact?

edit on 033131p://5America/ChicagoMon, 21 May 2012 15:48:57 -0500 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)

So you would call planting bombs along roads and in crowded markets a sure sign of bravery? No you would not. Of course if they came out for a stand up fight you would call it brave but, they would call it stupid. Just as NATO forces use every asset they have to come out on top so do the Taliban. Both sides fight in a way that maximizes casualties of the enemy and minimizes their own. And all them could give a crap what some slow wit on the internet thinks is brave. I would love to take some of you people out for a tour.

Never been in but I have a lot of family and friends who are serving currently or formerly.

I'll put it this way, if the SHTF who would I want beside me when it got sticky? No question in my mind it would be a CF soldier, an American Marine or Army, a UK soldier or an Aussie.

Why?

Because I know those guys aren't cutting bait and running in the other direction. They would have my back and would do whatever it takes for all of us to get out alive and safe, just like I would.

And like mentioned a few posts above, I don't think that most realize that the large majority of Taliban and AQ fighhters aren't Afghani's but foreigners, Uzbecs, Kazakhs, Tajik's, Chechnyans and others that have gone to Afghanistan to fight Jihad and the Western Satan.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
I'd be too smart for that, they would make me commander based on my entrance scores.

I doubt that very much - Command is a right earned through demonstrated skill and service.

Do you know how many men with "high entrance scores" make decent Soldiers and leaders.....?

Not many. I have seen so many wash outs from leadership programs who thought that they were always the smartest man in the room. The problem is they can't be taught. Same with the Q course and Ranger School etc. -it is always the smart asses and know it alls from say military intelligence and fields like that who wash out first.

It’s not because they can't handle the training some excel physically and academically - its because they don't make the peer reviews. In the officer corps (whence Commanders are drawn) and in special units being a team player and fitting in with your peers (i.e. not being a know it all douche) is almost as important as being competent.

These intellectual dynamos think they are somehow above learning what is required and paying their dues. They are the most difficult to train because they have a hard time subordinating their ego to the mission. They can't just say "well, this needs to be done, let’s do it". They whine and complain about policy and complain about their leaders and such... Just a drain on the unit's morale and that is almost more important than a units training.

A highly motivated unit can be trained at least. A unit with poor morale is a cancer in the service that usually starts with the one guy who always has something to say about how this or that is wrong or can be done better etc. Usually, this guy is someone with “high entrance scores”. The less intelligent make mistakes that can be easily overcome.


While no one wants someone incompetent (unintelligent or in poor physical shape) them around because they will get the group killed it is more likely that no one wants a know it all douche complainer who grates on everyone's nerves around either. Regardless of this person’s physical fitness or competence, they are a cancer in the unit because they make the already stressful tasks and missions all the much more so with the tension they bring.

You tell yourself whatever you want I don't think you'd last a day on an SF team much less lead one based on your attitude.

Anyway, Command is not something you are "given" YOU EARN IT!

Facing any enemy who wants to kill you in combat takes bravery - facing an enemy in combat who has superior arms and technology still takes bravery as well.

Failing to use your technological advantage against your enemy is pure stupidity and fighting smarter doesn’t negate the bravery required.

We are not conducting a duel – we are not facing off at ten paces with equal weapons to determine who has more honor.

We fight to win, using all the advantages at our disposal.

Anything less is stupidity.

With an attitude like you demonstrate I doubt you’d be selected to command anything, especially a military unit.

reply to post by Golf66

Anyway, Command is not something you are "given" YOU EARN IT!

Believe you me, I earned my commanding abilities.

You tell yourself whatever you want I don't think you'd last a day on an SF team much less lead one based on your attitude.

I am a pro, I would be the top dawg. Simples. Any inquiries into such matters will not be satisfied as my skills are CLASSIFIED.

Failing to use your technological advantage against your enemy is pure stupidity and fighting smarter doesn’t negate the bravery required.

Yes it does. Do you think the drone operators would go in on the ground? No because they want to stay and play on their playstations. Same for the armored vehicles. They are not brave at all, period.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Dude, if you are off to join the Taliban then you have been seriously brainwashed.

"A person with eyes protruding, with a long beard and head clean-shaven came to the Prophet (Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wasallam) and declared: 'O Muhammad! (Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wasallam) fear Allah. "' The Prophet(Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wasallam) replied: "If I disobey Allah, then who else will obey Him? I am obedient to Allah at all times and never disobedient. Allah has sent me as Amin(Honest for the entire world, but you don't accept me as an honest man?' A Sahabi (Companion) became infuriated and sought permission to remove him from the presence of the Prophet (Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wasallam). The Prophet (Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wasallam) prevented the Sahabi from doing so.

After the person had left, the Holy Prophet (Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wasallam) said: "From his progeny will rise a Group who will recite the Holy Quran but it will not go below their throats. They will leave the Deen just as an arrow leaves the bowstring. They will kill the Muslims but spar the idolaters. If I ever confronted these people I would slaughter them just as the people of Aad had been destroyed" (Mishkat Shareef, pp/535)

These are your Taliban, I have lots more if you like.. we can see what the Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wa sallam) thinks of these people. I will guarantee you it is not good,

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by OpinionatedB

Dude, if you are off to join the Taliban then you have been seriously brainwashed.

I am an American why would I join the talibans? LOL

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Your posts are indicative of a person who wants to go fight as you say you are a trained commander etc. Therefore this is what I gather.

Why did people from Saudi Arabia or other countries go?

So, you decide, was what they did right and true? Or was it evil? If it was evil in your mind then you cannot support any action. If you think it was right and true we can discuss (you and I) why it was not.

reply to post by OpinionatedB

Your posts are indicative of a person who wants to go fight as you say you are a trained commander etc

I could be commander of US forces, German forces, you don't know.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Not when you are sitting here praising the Taliban

reply to post by OpinionatedB


That is your opinion which rings with your screenname. Just because I tell you my views on here does not equate to what I actually do.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

You are a spook,a f##kin spook.Or a polysci- communist.I should have guessed it from the permanent cynicism against America.I can be so slow some times.Maybe a SEAL would be that cryptic but you're no shooter,probably a think tank talking head or a REMF analyst.Reading your info since you can't fight.Funny how you often have negative comments about the US and how its impending downfall,with its cowardly armed forces.I still wonder why the doom and gloom when we will obviously be pulling out soon and these economic hic ups don't mean squat in the long run.
Everything I have posted was confirmed by a person I trust.My story is equally true. American soldiers fight almost identically to the way the play football. Running away in fear is something I have never seen anywhere nor have my people.Doing something stupid? Yeah that happens.....or it's encouraged by authority.Enlisted people ARE supervised by officers( I have met Doozies there) and NCOs.But cowards no way we take and own what we are ordered to.
My background is unclassified Cav I was the front line.So I guess between us that makes me the expert here BELIEVE THAT.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Well, then explain to me why you are sitting here lauding the talents of the Taliban! I mean seriously, did they do even one good thing for the Afghani people besides rape, pillage and enslave them, murdering any dissenters?

Please, explain why you think these people are so wonderful.

Do you even know anyone from Afghanistan who had to live through that hell? Because I most certainly do!

reply to post by cavtrooper7


In Afghanistan that like to snipe from a distance the only problem is there using AK 47s in poor condition. Every-time the NATO troops open fire on there position they run.Theres no bravery there what so ever there only brave if they can hide in villages using other Afgans as shields.Oh and lets not forget there brave attacks on girls trying to attend school. Like the 150 girls they poisoned trying to get an education.Then theres throwing acid in there faces in another school.