Is love Iogical ?

Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum

Originally posted by Wonders

All very nice, but what do you personally think of the question put forward in the op? From your own life experience, interaction with people, personal reflection, from delving within etc. Do you have any observations, aside from scripture based ones?

Thank you for asking. I don't believe that you can disconnect the Word with life.
Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
By the prompting of the Holy Spirt, I have had prayers answered, I have spoken in tongues, I have commanded a thing to move and it did, I have felt God's love and peace, I have heard the voice of God, my observations are very much connected to scripture based ones.
The only reason I am alive today is because God's Word is True.
My interaction with people confirms my belief that God is real.
I shall admit, my beliefs aren't like the those of many people, but that is nothing new.

edit on 10/01/11 by Wonders because: (no reason given)

Fair enough. Thanks for the honesty.

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum


I believe he does. But it doesn't make sense to deviate from the guides he knows.

So many great answers. Just want to say thank you to everyone who participated here.

ATS rocks !

reply to post by randyvs



Is love logical?

NO!


If not does that make God illogical?

Illogical question, You do not have the information, nor do we have the information to answer such a question.


Should human beings toss logic altogether ?

Logic is a set of parameters set by other humans. Logic is a human based Word, put on a chemical reaction within these things, we call "bodies".
Logic is only part of what we need.

Science and Religion could learn alot from eachother if they could stop bickering over logic.

Science is based in the Faith of our instruments.
Religion is based in the Faith of our minds.

They are both equally wrong if you ask me. But put them together, and you might have something close to a question for an answer.

reply to post by zysin5


Damn ! Very well thought out and said. I'm certainly not going to argue. .

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by Wonders

 

What an honest, humbling, polite and love filled post... thank you.

What i have to say next is probably best in a more private surrondings so i am going to send you a private U2U.

Peace

Still waiting for that U2U!! What do you have to say next?? I think it's best if you share it here instead of "private surroundings". Why keep secrets?!

Originally posted by arielburns
reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

 

I believe he does. But it doesn't make sense to deviate from the guides he knows.

Definitely doesn't!!
I don't mind being called a "sheep".
People are not scary, neither are their assumptions.

One observation I have, could be summed up in the following. Perhaps such things are simply an illusion, so to be taken it for what it's worth. Based on only one of several experiences. I feel there is much we have to learn about reality...

As we have been told by various people throughout history, it does seem that for whatever reason, people have glimpsed the nature of what we are (psychologically) at the most basic and fundamental level. A shame this observation has spawned so many differing beliefs and cults. From this point of view of what appears to be pure light that illuminates awareness at its most basic level, some amazing possibilities seem to arise.

It seems beyond time and space (as might be expected of light), but really it is beyond any way to describe. They all fail miserably as mine are now. It simply IS, in the most simple, complete and profound way. In a way that resolves all paradox, all encompassing, utter simplicity. In this way, seemingly complete and beyond time or separateness, it could also be said to be “one”... or a truth, both ultimate and eternal. At least in the philosophical sense.

Another observation is that it is love, completely. Difficult to explain, but sadly words will never suffice. So, without wishing to become too airy fairy, perhaps there might turn out to be something in the idea that love will provide the ultimate truth. Once we do genuinely start to delve and further understand what consciousness is.

Which would seem to indicate IMO, that love is not just beyond notions of logic, it exists despite notions our notions of it. Something that can be experienced, though all attempts at understanding it take us away from the experience of what it is.

I don't really have much time for primitive religions based on books such as the bible.

Yet I can see where there is something about being the alpha and omega that seems relevant to our existence, at least in this way. Both the reason and the ultimate point of existence, a complete paradox, yet one in which no paradox can or does exist. Something that fundamentally also exists within ourselves.

I read somewhere the idea that ”love is religion, religion is love”, with the rest being a man made addition. I see as a great shame that the superstitions, prohibitions, threats and dogma of religion not only prevent a search for truth, they also seem to complicate such a simple principle beyond any form of recognition...

Though, perhaps I am also completely wrong.

love is a trick that our DNA plays on us in order to reproduce itself.

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69
love is a trick that our DNA plays on us in order to reproduce itself.

That appears to be very deep, perhaps the result of milliseconds of pondering and deliberating the mysteries of existence?

I think you could be confusing the sexual impulse and resulting complicated emotions and dependancies, with love?

People also claim great love towards those with whom the thought of any "reproduction" type of activity, would be abhorrent. Others often indulge in the pastime that leads to reproduction and in fact do reproduce, with no great depth of feeling towards each other at all.

Or are you using the word "reproduce" in some other sense?

Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum
One observation I have, could be summed up in the following. Perhaps such things are simply an illusion, so to be taken it for what it's worth. Based on only one of several experiences. I feel there is much we have to learn about reality...

As we have been told by various people throughout history, it does seem that for whatever reason, people have glimpsed the nature of what we are (psychologically) at the most basic and fundamental level. A shame this observation has spawned so many differing beliefs and cults. From this point of view of what appears to be pure light that illuminates awareness at its most basic level, some amazing possibilities seem to arise.

It seems beyond time and space (as might be expected of light), but really it is beyond any way to describe. They all fail miserably as mine are now. It simply IS, in the most simple, complete and profound way. In a way that resolves all paradox, all encompassing, utter simplicity. In this way, seemingly complete and beyond time or separateness, it could also be said to be “one”... or a truth, both ultimate and eternal. At least in the philosophical sense.

Another observation is that it is love, completely. Difficult to explain, but sadly words will never suffice. So, without wishing to become too airy fairy, perhaps there might turn out to be something in the idea that love will provide the ultimate truth. Once we do genuinely start to delve and further understand what consciousness is.

Which would seem to indicate IMO, that love is not just beyond notions of logic, it exists despite notions our notions of it. Something that can be experienced, though all attempts at understanding it take us away from the experience of what it is.

I don't really have much time for primitive religions based on books such as the bible.

Yet I can see where there is something about being the alpha and omega that seems relevant to our existence, at least in this way. Both the reason and the ultimate point of existence, a complete paradox, yet one in which no paradox can or does exist. Something that fundamentally also exists within ourselves.

I read somewhere the idea that ”love is religion, religion is love”, with the rest being a man made addition. I see as a great shame that the superstitions, prohibitions, threats and dogma of religion not only prevent a search for truth, they also seem to complicate such a simple principle beyond any form of recognition...

Though, perhaps I am also completely wrong.

edit on 31-5-2012 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it.

Damn boy !
Wrong, right, who even cares. ? Jus just Bravo ! Cog that was excellent ! I'm honored and frankly a little stunned by that post.

reply to post by randyvs


Don't be stunned for too long Randy, I'm sure the normal cynical tones will resume soon enough.

I find it very likely that there is a fundamental energy underlying existence. Some total unity, beyond known science (as yet) and not so much possessing intelligence, as being the source of intelligence itself. Though certainly not in the normal religious way, as in some deity who meddles in mortal affairs. I can see where science will one day understand more about this and possibly even quantify it in some way as basic to consciousness. I would be very surprised if they don't, eventually. How it all fits in with the big bang, quantum physics, matter, evolution, the psyche etc. I don't know. Though I feel that science will one day meet and reconcile with philosophy in this area.

This being one of few experiences my (personal) scepticism and debunking of things religious and new age, has never overcome. Though I would never proclaim it as truth or need anyone to believe, as I know delusion can affect anyone. Still, it would be dishonest to say otherwise and I notice many others who have had similar profound experience. In trying to find anything that could be illusory I have not only failed, on the contrary it appears the only time I have ever been completely free of all illusion. The smallest speck of light suddenly merged with a great light that was everywhere all at once, beyond time or self or any other concept apart from pure awareness and complete love. Not just a feeling of love, as much as being that, completely.

Another peculiarity being feeling of melancholy for some days following. Though even this unlike anything I have known. Such a subtle and sweet type of sorrow, strangely beautiful in itself (as unusual as that sounds), remarkable not only for its constant subtle presence, but for a depth which seemed unfathomable. Something I can only understand as a resultant type of longing.

So it's not spirituality I have any problem with, as much as the “know it alls” and those who see fit to discriminate and impose man made rules under the guise of spirituality. Those who indoctrinate young minds into fear based beliefs, also denying the knowledge of science in favour of obvious fairy tales (see, I told you things would return to normal). If we left religious beliefs out of the equation until people matured and were then given the choice, things would be much better IMO.

To me at least, there is nothing more uplifting while at the same time humbling, or that could highlight how small our knowledge is, than this type of experience. Yet if we as a humanity in general lack humility, it seems never more so than in modern religion IMO.

Now, with this little foray into philosophy done, perhaps we should revert back to normal.

Are you a Vulcan.? that's illogical captain
After the conclusion of the U.S.S. Enterprise's five-year mission, Spock retired from Starfleet and returned to Vulcan to pursue the emotion-purging of the kohlinar discipline from the Vulcan Masters. Although he completed the training, Spock failed to achieve kohlinar because his emotions were stirred by the V'Ger entity in 2271. He then reentered Starfleet and was eventually promoted to U.S.S. Enterprise captain when that ship was assigned as a training vessel at Starfleet Academy.

Spock sacrificed himself in 2285 to repair plasma conduits that allowed the U.S.S. Enterprise and its crew to escape from the detonation of the Genesis Device by Khan Noonien Singh; his radiation-wracked body was consigned to space but landed on the newly formed Genesis Planet and began regeneration. Prior to his death, Spock had mind-melded with McCoy to transfer his katra, apparently intending for his longtime friend and sparring partner to return it to Vulcan and perhaps be fully regenerated in the fal-tor-pan or refusion process, conducted for the first time in generations.

In later years, Spock's work became more diplomatic than scientific, initially remaining a part of Starfleet. In 2293, he served as Federation special envoy to the Klingon government, paving the way for the Khitomer peace accords with Chancellor Azetbur. That peace came about with great difficulty and personal turmoil for Spock, in that a conspiracy to sabotage the talks through the assassination of Azetbur's father, Chancellor Gorkon, and the subsequent framing of Kirk and McCoy, involved his own Vulcan protégé, Lt. Valeris.

After decades as a civilian, in 2368, Spock secretly traveled to Romulus on a personal mission to further the cause of Romulan/Vulcan reunification — a mission which shook up the Federation so that Captain Jean-Luc Picard was sent undercover to determine his motives. On the same trip he was saddened to hear of the death of his father, Sarek, but Picard's presence allowed Spock a final last solace thanks to an earlier Picard-Sarek mind meld. Spock remained to work with the Romulan underground and in 2369, helped arrange the defection of Romulan vice-proconsul M'Ret to the Federation to pioneer an escape route for dissidents.

In 2387, a Praxis-like emergency opportunity for cooperation arose as an expanding supernova threatened to engulf Romulus, allowing Spock to head a project to stem the nova's massively destructive advance. The use of red matter was intended to create a strategically placed black hole to thwart the nova, using a special one-man science vessel, but renegade miner Nero's Nerada vessel attacked him and caused both vessels to be lost in the singularity Spock created. The project also failed to save Romulus in time, although the anomlay's expansion was halted and numerous other worlds were preserved.

Spock carried a life-long interest in art, music, literature and poetry from many worlds, especially Terran, and played both tri-dimensional chess as well as the Vulcan lute or harp and a keyboard harpsichord. Google spock

Hi all.
My answer to the OP would be, the fact that love isn't logical proves for me that there is a God, I believe that's what the reference "god is love" most likely represents for me.

When you take a look at everything in the universe you can make sense evolution wise and logic wise, why things work the way they do.

You can understand the need for most Mechanisms, behaviours and emotions such as anger (the need to fight to survive), Lust (the need to procreate). Pain (the need to know when your injured and in danger).

But when you look at Love there really is no specific need for it that cannot be achieved with other existing more logical emotions that we have.

So where I am going with this is, I believe the reason we cant find any logic to it is because it is the source. The source meaning in such a way that all things stemmed from it.Hence if you believe God to be the source then its the same as the reference "God is love. " or God is truth " I believe its the only real emotion out there and everything else exists in duality as simply to have a reference to it.

I could expand on this a great deal further but don't wont to bore you any longer than I may already have.

thanks for reading

Depends on what you love, if its a face eating zombie then probably not.

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

Though, perhaps I am also completely wrong.

Oh, I was only referring to this part Cog. kidding just kidding

Love doesn't technically exist... It's simply the logical way to explain such illogical behaviour...

Ambivalence leads to ambiguous speech, imo. When people don't care to learn the difference between what's right and wrong then essentially how much better are they than those who eat people's faces? Is there then in that case a difference between their speech and a gong and a clashing cymbal? I don't think so.

Why bother asking whether or not love is logical when love is love and not hate nor indifference? Truth is truth and is not a lie as it should be for we were made to differentiate. The fence is not a safe place for anyone, one side attacks another and who is in the middle but the one who thinks themselves safe on the fence, who would stand on the wall of China while it's being torn down.

The bible says that God would rather people make their minds up as to the kind of person they'd like to be. The state of the person can either be described as hot or cold and God wants us to be one or the other, I think it's like bacteria that thrives in stagnant warm water, warm being approximated human body temperature. Generally speaking, most bacteria reproduce by binary fission, dividing in two (undecided, uncertain, pleading ignorance, ect.)

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Of course people will take this post to mean that I think that I am better than they, I'm sharing my thoughts, is that a crime? I don't think so. As mentioned in an earlier post, the Holy Spirit guides into all truth, it is not given to us in one lump sum. I hardly have a place to hold people accountable, just as a mother should not measure her son by the yardstick of her own years (experiences). I simply do not agree with people who infer that one shrugging their shoulders is denying ignorance.

Remember what Einstein said about knowledge.

Love is logical, but the way people act on it may not always be...

Whether or not "God is love", depends on your definition of "God".

If God is only Light, then yes, God is love.

reply to post by randyvs


I first find it hard to believe that there is a lot of sacrifice for good going on. I do see a lot of claims of sacrifice, but the results show otherwise in our world today. I guess I would have to say their is a lot of "lip-service" when this word is tossed around. People will do many token acts of kindness that demonstrate love but, for good? How many people do you know will sacrifice their job (money) to do the right thing for people they don't even know? I guess it would be easier to say, How many people turn a blind eye to "bad" in order to keep their job? ... there is often something that at some point or another that is chosen over love. I see love as be conditional in many people. I think the real love is more than conditional love, that is like a candle that needs "oxygen" to survive.