9/11: The WTC Elevator Key

reply to post by GenRadek


How about answering my question. What caused the damage on the 22nd floor?

reply to post by maxella1


Same thing that caused the damage to the building, the fireballs and the impact, the movement of the Tower, etc. If there were bombs in the 22nd floor, then why did so many people manage to get out of the North Tower through the 22nd floor?

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by maxella1

 

Same thing that caused the damage to the building, the fireballs and the impact, the movement of the Tower, etc. If there were bombs in the 22nd floor, then why did so many people manage to get out of the North Tower through the 22nd floor?

edit on 5/18/2012 by GenRadek because: (no reason given)

From the 9/11-Commission Report: "A jet fuel fireball erupted upon impact and shot down at least one bank of elevators. The fireball exploded onto numerous floors, including the 77th and 22nd; the West Street lobby level; and the B4 level, four stories below ground." (ch.9, pg.285)

"Although dramatic, these fireballs did not explode or generate a shock wave. If an explosion or detonation had occurred, the expansion of the burning gasses would have taken place in microseconds, not the 2 seconds observed. Therefore, although there were some overpressures, it is unlikely that the fireballs, being external to the buildings, would have resulted in significant structural damage. It is not known whether the windows that were broken shortly after impact were broken by these external overpressures, overpressures internal to the building, the heat of the fire, or flying debris." (FEMA WTC report, chapter 2)

"Unfortunately, the individual was unaware of the condition of the 22nd floor, where critical communications hardware in the hidden security command center lay in ruins, likely preventing any building-wide public address announcements from reaching the occupants." (NIST NCSTAR 1-7, Chapter 6)

"When I got to the 22nd floor there was a lot of debris, everything was pushed to the center of the building. The windows were knocked out and I could feel the wind. I could not see. I got a radio transmission that everyone in Tower 1, get out." (NIST NCSTAR1-8, pg.106)

"8.47 a.m. WTC security radio report, PA Channel X - "...?...There is a fire on 22. 8.47 a.m. WTC security radio report, PA Channel X- "....?...on the 22nd floor a lot of debris." (NIST NCSTAR1-8, pg.194)

"9.54 a.m. WTC Vertical Transportation message indicates that an officer is located on floor 22, fire command center and that there is heavy traffic in the B stairway. The person indicates that they cannot release any emergency locked door due to fire and the loss of electrical power. (PA/WTC Vertical Transportation Radio CHannel Z)." (NIST-Progress Report June 04 -Appendix P, pg.35)

"8.47 a.m. WTC security reports that there is fire on floor 22 of WTC1 (PA/WTC Security Radio CHannel X). 8.49 a.m. WTC Security reports that there is damage and a lot of debris on floor 22 of WTC1 (PA/WTC Security Radio Channel X)." (NIST-Progress Report June 04 -Appendix P, pg.36)

"9.57 a.m. WTC Security: a report is received that an officer is responding to WTC 1 Fire Command and that he had been trying to contact the Command Center on floor 22, but they didn't know how to operate the other set of communication equipment. (PA/WTC Security Radio Channel X)." (NIST-Progress Report June 04 -Appendix P, pg.148)

"Firefighter Long on 22nd floor: We made it up to the 22nd floor. We stood there for a couple minutes. I believe Andy Desperito talked to the battalion through the fire warden phones. We did locate somebody at the end of the hall, but everything was blown out. The ceiling had fallen. The drop ceiling had blown to the floor. Some of the walls were blown out. So Andy and I had crawled down the hallway to get to the Port Authority command post."

And it doesn’t seem add to you that the fireball (which FEMA concluded would not have resulted in significant structural damage). Caused the damage to the control room on the 22nd floor, but not on the 23rd or 21st floors?

If there were bombs in the 22nd floor, then why did so many people manage to get out of the North Tower through the 22nd floor?[

may be because there were 200 + elevators and many many stairs? did you forget how large the towers were?

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by maxella1

 

Same thing that caused the damage to the building, the fireballs and the impact, the movement of the Tower, etc.

I see you're still doing the tango while they're playing a waltz.

The "fireballs and impact" pulverized 110 floors of solid steel and concrete in what looked like a nuclear holocaust but it left passports and paper intact.

Thanks for the morning laugh!!

Originally posted by GenRadek
You mean three buildings collapsed from severe damage and fire. The Pentagon hit by a plane and the section collapsed after impact and fires weakened it. Richard Gibney was no where near Shanksville. I guess you truthers also suck in geography as North Dakota is nowhere near Shanksville, PA. That is where Lt. Col. Rick Gibney was flying to Bozeman, Monatna to pick up the NY State Emergency Management Office director, Ed Jacoby Jr. and then fly him to Albany, NY. Why did you have to post so many erroneous reports and LIES?
posted.

I don't think it's a lie. There's a sea of disinformation out there, and you always go with the reports that support your own delusions. That's okay. But just in case you are correct, and Gibney didn't shoot it down, the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that SOMEONE DID. The plane broke up all over the place. The hole in Shanksville was already there weeks before and that was proven. Some clown came along with a dump truck and emptied some mangled aircraft parts into it and said "Lookie here, another jumbo jet that was 99 percent vaporized." I mean, come on. Flight 93 was shot down. Your endless obfuscations and attempts to discredit me and other "truthers" does not change that fact.

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by maxella1

 

Same thing that caused the damage to the building, the fireballs and the impact, the movement of the Tower, etc. If there were bombs in the 22nd floor, then why did so many people manage to get out of the North Tower through the 22nd floor?

edit on 5/18/2012 by GenRadek because: (no reason given)

Sorry but this fireball theory is a load of rubbish.
Wish some of you people would wake up !

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Originally posted by GenRadek
You mean three buildings collapsed from severe damage and fire. The Pentagon hit by a plane and the section collapsed after impact and fires weakened it. Richard Gibney was no where near Shanksville. I guess you truthers also suck in geography as North Dakota is nowhere near Shanksville, PA. That is where Lt. Col. Rick Gibney was flying to Bozeman, Monatna to pick up the NY State Emergency Management Office director, Ed Jacoby Jr. and then fly him to Albany, NY. Why did you have to post so many erroneous reports and LIES?
posted.

I don't think it's a lie. There's a sea of disinformation out there, and you always go with the reports that support your own delusions. That's okay. But just in case you are correct, and Gibney didn't shoot it down, the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that SOMEONE DID. The plane broke up all over the place. The hole in Shanksville was already there weeks before and that was proven. Some clown came along with a dump truck and emptied some mangled aircraft parts into it and said "Lookie here, another jumbo jet that was 99 percent vaporized." I mean, come on. Flight 93 was shot down. Your endless obfuscations and attempts to discredit me and other "truthers" does not change that fact.

There isn't a shred of evidence that UA 93 was shot down. All the evidence in fact indicates that it was not.

The flight data recorder shows that all systems were working normally until impact. The cockpit voice recorder relays the drama of the last few minutes when the hi-jackers deliberately put the plane down. UA 93 was seen by at least 2 aircraft , in one piece, shortly before crashing. The plane was also seen at low level just before crashing, in one piece, by eyewitnesses on the ground.

Originally posted by lambros56

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by maxella1

 

Same thing that caused the damage to the building, the fireballs and the impact, the movement of the Tower, etc. If there were bombs in the 22nd floor, then why did so many people manage to get out of the North Tower through the 22nd floor?

edit on 5/18/2012 by GenRadek because: (no reason given)

Sorry but this fireball theory is a load of rubbish.
Wish some of you people would wake up !

Yes, I expect this woman just imagined getting 80% burns :-

www.nypost.com...

Originally posted by Alfie1

There isn't a shred of evidence that UA 93 was shot down. All the evidence in fact indicates that it was not.

Flight 93 Shot Down on History Channel

www.youtube.com...#!

Originally posted by Alfie1

The flight data recorder shows that all systems were working normally until impact. The cockpit voice recorder relays the drama of the last few minutes when the hi-jackers deliberately put the plane down. UA 93 was seen by at least 2 aircraft , in one piece, shortly before crashing. The plane was also seen at low level just before crashing, in one piece, by eyewitnesses on the ground.

WHAT' IT ALL ABOUT.......ALFEEEEEEEE????... la da da deeee da da da la da deeeeeeee

Slip of the tongue? Rumsfeld admits that "Flight 93" was shot down

www.globalresearch.ca...

FLIGHT 93 SHOT DOWN

Eyewitness Reports at Odds With Official Scenario

www.americanfreepress.net...

Flight 93 'was shot down' claims book

www.dailymail.co.uk...

9/11: United Airlines Flight 93 Shot Down

www.twf.org...

United Airlines Flight 93 Shot Down

piratenews.org...

Was Flight 93 Shot Down?

www.flight93crash.com...

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by lambros56

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by maxella1

 

Same thing that caused the damage to the building, the fireballs and the impact, the movement of the Tower, etc. If there were bombs in the 22nd floor, then why did so many people manage to get out of the North Tower through the 22nd floor?

edit on 5/18/2012 by GenRadek because: (no reason given)

Sorry but this fireball theory is a load of rubbish.
Wish some of you people would wake up !

Yes, I expect this woman just imagined getting 80% burns :-

www.nypost.com...

No she didn't.
It's you who imagined what caused it.

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Originally posted by Alfie1

There isn't a shred of evidence that UA 93 was shot down. All the evidence in fact indicates that it was not.

Flight 93 Shot Down on History Channel

www.youtube.com...#!

Seen the clip; what is your point ?

Originally posted by maxella1

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by lambros56

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by maxella1

 

Same thing that caused the damage to the building, the fireballs and the impact, the movement of the Tower, etc. If there were bombs in the 22nd floor, then why did so many people manage to get out of the North Tower through the 22nd floor?

edit on 5/18/2012 by GenRadek because: (no reason given)

Sorry but this fireball theory is a load of rubbish.
Wish some of you people would wake up !

Yes, I expect this woman just imagined getting 80% burns :-

www.nypost.com...

No she didn't.
It's you who imagined what caused it.

What has my imagination got to do with it ? She said " the fire exploded from the elevator banks into the lobby and engulfed me ".

reply to post by Alfie1

The flight data recorder shows that all systems were working normally until impact. The cockpit voice recorder relays the drama of the last few minutes when the hi-jackers deliberately put the plane down. UA 93 was seen by at least 2 aircraft , in one piece, shortly before crashing. The plane was also seen at low level just before crashing, in one piece, by eyewitnesses on the ground.

reply to post by Alfie1

What has my imagination got to do with it ? She said " the fire exploded from the elevator banks into the lobby and engulfed me ".

Yeah, and what caused that fire explosion out of the elevator?

reply to post by SimontheMagus


If your prime bit of evidence in support of a UA 93 shoot-down is Rumsfeld you are really clutching at straws. Yes he made a slip but it is clear from the context that he is referring to "the people who attacked the United States " not the USAF.

The only reason I argue with you about a shoot-down is because I believe the evidence is overwhelmingly that it was not. If in fact it was true it would be strong evidence against an inside job would it not ? Cheney says he issued a shoot-down order with the President's authority so why would anyone deny it if UA 93 was indeed shot down ? It would have made the administration seem a little less ineffective.

One of the difficulties of debating with truthers is the constant contradictions and inconsistencies. One minute there is a NORAD stand-down and the next minute UA 93 is shot down.

I note that you haven't attempted to deal with the flight data recorder or the cockpit voice recorder. There is some interesting information in this paper, and some eyewitness accounts but I anticipate you will handwave it away :-

sites.google.com...

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by Alfie1

 

What has my imagination got to do with it ? She said " the fire exploded from the elevator banks into the lobby and engulfed me ".

Yeah, and what caused that fire explosion out of the elevator?

Well, I suppose somebody could have been smoking in an elevator against the rules. But then I do note she says she was heading into the lobby about 0845 and I seem to remember a Boeing 767 heavy with 30 tons of fuel crashed into the building at 0846. Sounds off the wall I know but you don't suppose there could be a connection ?

I am sure you are aware there are other accounts of people being badly burned by fire from elevators.

reply to post by ANOK


Yes but the unfortunate thing about the design was floors could collapse internally because they were effectively suspended between the outer wall and core.

reply to post by SimontheMagus


First of all no one has EVER did a controlled demolition of 110 storey high buildings, NO buildings of that height have been hit by large passenger planes flying at speed full of fuel.

As for WTC7 it was hit by debris fires left to burn and like the twin towers an unfortunate steel frame design!

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by Alfie1

 

The flight data recorder shows that all systems were working normally until impact. The cockpit voice recorder relays the drama of the last few minutes when the hi-jackers deliberately put the plane down. UA 93 was seen by at least 2 aircraft , in one piece, shortly before crashing. The plane was also seen at low level just before crashing, in one piece, by eyewitnesses on the ground.

You already had a go with that clip here and it didn't get you anywhere :-

www.abovetopsecret.com...