9/11: The WTC Elevator Key

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by maxella1

 

2 planes hit the towers

Structural damage done
Fuel explodes more damage and fire protection damaged.
Fires start and cause more problems with the HUGE dead load above impacts.
Eventual structural failure as the floors above impact point drop!

No explosives ?

And what happened on the 22nd floor?

Originally posted by maxella1

Originally posted by vkey08
I'm still waiting for someone to show me proof as one of the other posters put that Andrew Card whispered in the president's ear on the day of the attack

The second building failed to detonate

noone? anyone?

If I’m not mistaking he said “Mr. President America is under attack”

That's my point exactly, one of the other posters in theis thread that has tons of stars stated that he said the quote I put, as fact and as part of the proof that the buildings were brought down by explosives, I was askign that person to come back on and prove that statement..

Originally posted by vkey08

Originally posted by maxella1

Originally posted by vkey08
I'm still waiting for someone to show me proof as one of the other posters put that Andrew Card whispered in the president's ear on the day of the attack

The second building failed to detonate

noone? anyone?

If I’m not mistaking he said “Mr. President America is under attack”

That's my point exactly, one of the other posters in theis thread that has tons of stars stated that he said the quote I put, as fact and as part of the proof that the buildings were brought down by explosives, I was askign that person to come back on and prove that statement..

Yeah I think that was a rhetorical statement, or maybe that person actually believes it.

Anyway judging by the response, actually the lack of response by the President and his Secret Service, Card could of told him what they were planning to have for lunch.

reply to post by Cassius666

Would firefighters really take the elevator in a burning building? Did the elevators not work all day or only after the attack? I can see how the top secion taking damage might affect the elevators that reach up that far.

Yes FF take the elevator - did you not read other posts detailing such....?

The elevators were fine up until the moment of impact - how do you think thousands of people were on the
upper floors? Did not walk it......

The aircraft impacts destroyed/disabled most of the elevators particularly the ones which serviced the impact
floors

FF were forced to try and walk up the stairs to try and reach the impact zones.

reply to post by thedman

The aircraft impacts destroyed/disabled most of the elevators particularly the ones which serviced the impact floors

So there were three elevators running from the basement to the top. The main freight elevator 50, served every floor from Basement 6 to the 108th floor. In addition, two express elevators - Car 6 and 7 - served only particular floors. They both ran from Basement 1 up to "Windows on the World" on the 107th floor. They both shared the same shaft and though their lowest door opening was in basement level 1, their shafts went as deep as basement level 4.

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by thedman

 

The aircraft impacts destroyed/disabled most of the elevators particularly the ones which serviced the impact floors

So there were three elevators running from the basement to the top. The main freight elevator 50, served every floor from Basement 6 to the 108th floor. In addition, two express elevators - Car 6 and 7 - served only particular floors. They both ran from Basement 1 up to "Windows on the World" on the 107th floor. They both shared the same shaft and though their lowest door opening was in basement level 1, their shafts went as deep as basement level 4.

edit on 15-5-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)

The drawing you present .
You do realize that the boxes with the big x's represent the elevators,not those other boxes.

For an elevator’s cables to be cut and result in dropping the car to the bottom of the shaft, the cables would need to have been in the aircraft impact debris path, floors 93 through 98 in WTC 1 or floors 78 through 83 in WTC 2. Inspection of the elevator riser diagram and architectural floor plans for WTC 1 shows that the following elevators met these criteria: cars 81 through 86 (Bank B) and 87 through 92 (Bank C), local cars in Zone III; car 50, the freight elevator, and car 6, the Zone III shuttle. … Cars 6 and 50 could have fallen all the way to the pit in the sub-basement level, and car 50 in WTC 1 was reported to have done so. wtc.nist.gov...(PDF pg. 160)

sites.google.com...

reply to post by maxella1


The elevator shafts were lined with sheet rock not concrete

Would not offer much resistance to a 300000 lb aircraft impacting at 500 mph

What is point? That Car 50, the freight elevator which ran lenght of building should somehow survive

AA11 struck building pretty much dead center which meant most of the mass of the airplane plowed
right through the central core housing the elevators and shafts

At WTC 7 the debris strikes dislofged 2 elevators from their shafts

8th / 9th floor from inside, visible south wall gone with more
damage to west, 2 elevator cars dislodged into elevator lobby

www.wtc7.net...

Now if debris from WTC 1 landing on WTC 7 can cause that damage what would a 767 do...?

I don't know if this is correct or incorrect. Since you people won't click on the link below the video and go read this for yourselves. I will copy and paste it for you. According to this only 3 elevators shafts that go from the basement all the way to the top. And two of the are the other side of the impact area.

Please correct it if something is not right.

All four elevator banks occupying floor space

Bank A terminates, giving these levels more floor space

Bank B terminates, giving these levels more floor space

Bank C terminates, giving these levels more floor space

Here is the 42nd floor upper mechanical room, bank D terminates
to allow for the motor to be installed over the shaft

This is the bank D elevator elevation drawing.

911research.wtc7.n....../evidence/blueprints.html

Note that the shaft terminates and does not continue above the mechanical room. Looking at the top of the drawing it can be noted that the mechanical room is sealed by the 43rd floor. Above this area on the 43rd floor the drawing shows toilets and a new zone 2 elevator shaft pit. Hence the elevators are stacked.

This is the 43rd floor which shows the position of the
toilets and the new zone 2 elevator shaft pits

Here is the 44th floor lobby starting off again. Notice the local
elevators are in the same positions, hence they are “stacked”

It's now been established that there were only two shafts continuously running from the impact area of WTC 1 (floors 93-98) down to basement levels. One (Car 50) ended in B6, the other one (Car 6/7), ended in B4.

Correction; 2 elevator shafts that go from top to bottom.

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by maxella1

 

The elevator shafts were lined with sheet rock not concrete

Would not offer much resistance to a 300000 lb aircraft impacting at 500 mph

What is point? That Car 50, the freight elevator which ran lenght of building should somehow survive

AA11 struck building pretty much dead center which meant most of the mass of the airplane plowed
right through the central core housing the elevators and shafts

At WTC 7 the debris strikes dislofged 2 elevators from their shafts

8th / 9th floor from inside, visible south wall gone with more
damage to west, 2 elevator cars dislodged into elevator lobby

www.wtc7.net...

Now if debris from WTC 1 landing on WTC 7 can cause that damage what would a 767 do...?

The point is that jet fuel fireball in the basement could only come from 3 elevators on the other side of the building.
Correct it if you think its wrong. I have no expertise in it and I never said that I do.

What caused the damage on the 22nd floor? This is and honest question because I don't know. Do you know what caused it? It's a very important floor.

Click on the link below the video !

reply to post by maxella1


DRYWALL DRYWALL DRYWALL

Just to to back up what thedman said

Brian Clark was one of the only four survivors from both towers to escape from above where the planes hit. He describess clambering over the shattered walls to break through a smoke-filled stairwell to get out. "Drywall had been blown off and was lying up against the stair railing." he says, "We had to shovel it aside." Another survivor, window cleaner Jan Demczur, found the drywall so soft that he was able to dig through it with a squeegee to break out of a lift he was trapped in.

So do you think drywall would provide protection against the impact!


In this drawing no 50 is the elevator that goes from top to basement

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Cassius666

 

Would firefighters really take the elevator in a burning building? Did the elevators not work all day or only after the attack? I can see how the top secion taking damage might affect the elevators that reach up that far.

Yes FF take the elevator - did you not read other posts detailing such....?

The elevators were fine up until the moment of impact - how do you think thousands of people were on the
upper floors? Did not walk it......

The aircraft impacts destroyed/disabled most of the elevators particularly the ones which serviced the impact
floors

FF were forced to try and walk up the stairs to try and reach the impact zones.

Yes because the basement bomb took out the lobby elevator! This is fairly well documented.

Some lifts were used that day, and if you have done your homework the firemen said there were only 2 sections of fire that could be knocked out with 2 lines. Certainly not a big enough inferno to bring the buildings down in a way that mirrored a controlled demolition.

reply to post by wmd_2008

So do you think drywall would provide protection against the impact!

What were you on when you hallucinated this statement?
*
Hey construction man how about what I asked you earlier, what wood should I use for the deck in my back yard?

reply to post by wmd_2008


The fibre glass reinforced drywall lining the elevator shafts is very well documented. Leslie is proud of his achievement. It was not known how air pressure would affect the walls of the shafts. An elevator system on this scale had never been constructed within a building before.

It took a considerable length of time to make a hole large enough to escape through. The first improvised tool broke. Eventually the hole was enlarged until escape was possible.

Witnesses attempting to break through a wall to get around a locked or jammed door found concrete behind the drywall. The lift shafts were Leslies glass fibre reinforced drywall. The other walls seem to have included reinforced concrete infill panels.

Brown envelope. Back of Gloucester police station.

reply to post by maxella1


If people on the bottom floor felt the building shake, I would assume the mere impact of a plane flying that fast and the explosion following could do serious damage to the electrical and computer systems that operate those elevators. Even if the electricity is on, there could have been mechanical failures or other shorts that caused the elevators to not work properly.

BTW, this is my one of my favorite links that for me sums up why there was no conspiracy behind 9/11

9/11 conspiracy impossible?

reply to post by tide88

If people on the bottom floor felt the building shake, I would assume the mere impact of a plane flying that fast and the explosion following could do serious damage to the electrical and computer systems that operate those elevators. Even if the electricity is on, there could have been mechanical failures or other shorts that caused the elevators to not work properly.

On the 22nd floor? How?

BTW, this is my one of my favorite links that for me sums up why there was no conspiracy behind 9/11

All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off...

The calculation of the number of people needed to pull it off was based on what scientific study ?

-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history..

They got us to believe this sh** didn't they. How many killed for this BS?

Try again !

reply to post by tide88

If people on the bottom floor felt the building shake,

Explosions could shake the building too, right?

I will be the first to say I don't really understand most of this. Hence why i need to ask a few questions, and I really don't care who answers them, just please don't' answer with attitude, they are not being posed with such, just genuine curiosity.

1) It is a well known fact that if a building loses enough horizontal supports (ie: a floor crashes into the floor beneath it) that it will collapse. If this is what happened (I am not saying it did, just bear with me) isn't it safe to assume that the building would come down due to the increased motion of the floors crashing one by one into the ones beneath it? This would (as I have seen) cause the same type of effect as a demolition yes/no?

2) Leaving the Jet Fuel out of it for a moment and just concentrating on the fire that broke out on the affected floors. Wouldn't a fire of that magnitude be enough to subtlety change the shape/structure of the supports so that something like an Elevator which relys on exact tolerances, would cease to function properly?

3) The thing that is mentioned over and over again is that the elevators free fell, I would think that would be highly impossible given the safeties built into elevator systems AND the fact that if an elevator free fell, wouldn't the shocks at the bottom keep it from "exploding"?

4) Having been in a high rise fire in Los Angeles, the elevators there were not in use for the Emergency Services (after Northridge) due to a 2 inch change in the shaft which kicked the auto safeties in, could this have happened in WTC 1 and 2, rendering the elevators useless? Yes/no?

Originally posted by vkey08

1) It is a well known fact that if a building loses enough horizontal supports (ie: a floor crashes into the floor beneath it) that it will collapse. If this is what happened (I am not saying it did, just bear with me) isn't it safe to assume that the building would come down due to the increased motion of the floors crashing one by one into the ones beneath it? This would (as I have seen) cause the same type of effect as a demolition yes/no?

How is that a well known fact? Bit of a generalization no? Steel has a high strength to weigh ratio, in other words it is very strong for it's weight. So falling steel beams will generally not cause connected steel beams to fail, not enough weight. You have to consider equal opposite reaction, and momentum conservation. Massive resistance from undamaged structure would have slowed, and arrested the collapse before it could be complete.

Concrete, or brick, has a low strength to weight ratio and acts completely differently to steel.

The specific strength is a material's strength (force per unit area at failure) divided by its density. It is also known as the strength-to-weight ratio or strength/weight ratio.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by ANOK


you missed my question and what I wrote then.. If an entire floor comes crashing down on the floor below it...then that would cause a cascade reaction and topple the building, every single simulation that was run for LaP (History Channel) showed that. I am not saying that a bomb didn't' cause it... just could that have happened? I thought also I asked for no attitude in an answer I am just curious about a few details... it didn't warrant an attack...



say the top floor came crashing down on the one below, and then that weight caused the one below to crash with the combined weight of both of them now on to the floor below that etc etc etc.. that would be enough to bring a building down. Now could a bomb (or a plane depending on your mindset) be enough to start that cascade reaction with significantly weakened center columns, and what would it take (other than old age and no maintenance which is what I'm more versed in) to achieve that? I know it CAN happen, and that it would bring a skyscraper down, my question is more along the lines of , please explain how a small bomb (which is one of the theories) Thermite (another theory) or a plane (the going story) could cause this?