Who killed the prophet Muhammad? A 1400 year old murder mystery.

reply to post by babloyi


EXCELLENT POST!

I guess you are a lot more diplomatic than me but I do tend to go on one side... because of my personal perception.
As soon as people stop respecting perception, it is all lost.

Absolutely excellent, hopefully more and more members of ATS can see things as impartial as you can!

I just listen to a show on Coast to Coast about Hitler living in Indonesia till he died. Ask yourself this question, besides Nazi's who else wanted the jewish dead? Muslim's of course, Hitler is a hero to them, which at the time at the end of world war 2 Indonesia being mostly Muslim. It is an interesting twist in the story, I am not confirming the story but adds a fresh twist and makes you wonder where the Muslims were in WWII.

reply to post by maxzen2004

Where were the muslims? You mean like the 700,000 muslims who fought as part of the largest volunteer army ever (The British Indian Army)? Or the hundreds of thousands who participated in support roles?
Or perhaps the almost 500,000 Arabs and North Africans (overwhelmingly muslim) who were part of the Free French Forces, that basically saved France, and would've liberated Paris, except the higher-ups couldn't handle a bunch of coloured people saving the whites (consequently screwing them out of the honour and dignity they deserved, and in fact trying to hide their role until many decades later)?
Perhaps you mean the millions of Indonesians who fought against the Japanese who had basically occupied their country?

I could go on...there are dozens of examples like this...kinda surprising how willingly so many muslims fought against the Axis powers, along with the Allied forces, considering that both sides had mostly treated them pretty badly.

reply to post by babloyi


Maybe if we stop the hardcore separation caused by religious polarization, we could see the truth.

The truth is that Muslims are humans.
The truth is Christians are humans.
Jews, Hindus, Atheists, etc. are humans.


We see Muslims fighting along side the Nazis in the special SS division headed by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

I don't want to continue to name sides of the various battles. Various Christians were on opposing sides of the war, various Muslims were on opposing sides of the war....

Break it all the way down to fundamentals, and we simply see fellow human waring against fellow human.

reply to post by Sahabi


WW2 not a good thing. This is the price that is paid when a mad man comes to power
World War 2 Total Deaths (Approximate):
COUNTRY CASUALTIES
Soviet Union 23,954,000
China 15,000,000
Germany 7,728,000
Poland 5,720,000
Japan 2,700,000
India 2,087,000
Yugoslavia 1,027,000
Rumania 833,000
Hungary 580,000
France 567,600
Greece 560,000
Italy 456,000
Great Britain 449,800
United States 418,500
Czechoslovakia 345,000
Netherlands 301,000
Austria 123,700
Finland 97,000
Belgium 86,100
Canada 45,300
Australia 40,500
Bulgaria 25,000
New Zealand 11,900
South Africa 11,900
Norway 9,500
Spain 4,500
Denmark 3,200

TOTAL: 63,185,500

500,000 Arabs and North Africans (overwhelmingly muslim)
But how did that come to be?

www.mideastweb.org...

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According to Muslim belief, Muhammad did not create a new religion. He was rather the restorer of the original, uncorrupted monotheistic faith of Adam, Abraham, Solomon, Jesus and others. They see him as the last and the greatest in a series of prophets. Islam thus lays claim to the legitimacy of both Christianity and Judaism.

Muhammad’s early life is shrouded in obscurity. Nearly all of his life story is derived from the narrative in the Quran. The first non-Muslim sources attesting to his existence appear about 634, two years following his death. He was born in Mecca, Arabia, about 569 or 570 CE, into the clan of the Banu Hashim of the Quraysh tribe, one of the more prosperous families of Mecca but the family seems to have not been prosperous during Muhammad's early lifetime. His father died before he was born apparently and he was brought up by his uncle. He worked as a merchant, and was married by age 26.

Muhammad's first wife, Khadijah, bore six children: two sons, Al Qasem and Abdullah (who is also called Abdullah Al Tayeb or Abdullah Al Taher), and four daughters: Zainab, Ruqayyah, Umm Kulthum, and Fatima. All of Khadija's children were born before Muhammad reported receiving his first revelation. Both of Muhammad's sons died in childhood, with Qasim dying at the age of two.

Mecca was the center for worship of the Kaaba stone, an idolatrous cult. According to Muslim tradition Muhammad got his first revelation from God at age 40. Muhammad often went on retreat in Mount Hira near Mecca. Islamic tradition claims that the angel Gabriel began communicating with him here in 610 CE. The angel commanded Muhammad to recite verses that were later part of the Quran.

At first he preached only to his wife and family, but at age 43, Muhammad started preaching the revelations publicly. He proclaimed that there is one God, and that "Islam" - surrender to God-- is the only true religion. He declared himself a prophet and messenger of God, similar to Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus, and other prophets. Monotheism was not popular with the merchants of Mecca, since they would lose the rich trade brought by the cult of the Kaaba stone if the new faith took hold. Muhammad gained few followers early on, and was, not surprisingly, greeted largely with hostility. He and his followers were treated harshly.

As the ranks of his followers grew, Muhammad, became a threat to the local tribes and the rulers of the city, whose wealth rested upon the Kaaba, the focal point of Meccan religious life. Muhammad’s denunciation of the Kaaba religion was especially offensive to his own tribe, the Quraysh, as they were the guardians of the Ka'aba. Tradition records at great length the persecution and ill-treatment of Muhammad and his followers. Sumayya bint Khubbat, a slave of Abū Jahl and a prominent Meccan leader, is famous as the first martyr of Islam, She was killed by her master when she refused to give up her faith. Bilal, another Muslim slave, suffered torture at the hands of Umayya ibn khalaf by placing a heavy rock on his chest to force his conversion.

Muhammad himself was under the protection of Abu Talib, the head of the clan of Banu Hashim. Therefore, nobody had attacked him directly. However, the leaders of Makhzum and Abd Shams, two important clans of Quraysh, declared a public boycott against the clan of Banu Hashim, their commercial rival, in order to put pressure on the clan. The boycott lasted for three years. In 615, some of Muhammad's followers emigrated to the Ethiopian Kingdom, Aksum. They founded a small colony there under the protection of the Christian Ethiopian king. It is not clear if this Hijra was due to persecution, or reflected a split in Islam or a desire to found new colonies.

In 619, both Muhammad's wife Khadijah and his uncle Abu Talib died. Relations between Muhammad's followers and Muhammad's own Quraysh tribe, worsened. Muhammad then tried to establish himself in Ta'if, but this failed and Muhammad had to return to Mecca.

About 620 CE, Muhammad related that he had experienced the Isra and Miraj, a miraculous journey said to have been accomplished in one night along with the angel Gabriel. In the first part of the journey, the Isra, he is said to have travelled from Mecca to "the farthest place of worship" (or most extreme mosque) (in Arabic: masjid al-aqsa), usually identified with the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. In the second part, the Miraj, Muhammad supposedlytoured heaven and hell, and spoken with earlier prophets, such as Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Though earlier Muslim historians considered these to be metaphorical or spiritual journeys, later authorities insisted that they were actual occurrences.

insideislam.wisc.edu...

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Prior to the hijra, Muslims in Mecca constituted a small group of followers of the Prophet Muhammad. They practiced Islam privately out of fear of persecution, which many of the early followers endured. With the hijra, the situation of this small group of believers changed, as well as the course of the Muslim community as a whole.

In 622, the Prophet Muhammad began sending his small group of followers to the oasis town of Yathrib, now known as Medina. The Prophet had been looking for a place to take his followers after persecution of the Muslims intensified. Initially, the Muslims who did not have the protection of a clan or tribe were the main targets of the persecution. After the death of Abu Talib, the Prophet’s uncle and protector, in 619, the Prophet’s clan withdrew their protection of him. Around that time, warring factions in Yathrib heard of the Prophet Muhammad and asked him to go to the oasis town with his followers and act as an arbitrator. There he established an agreement with the Muslims, Jews, Christians, and other groups living in Medina called the Consttiution of Medina or the Charter of Medina, which became the foundation for the new Islamic state.

In Medina, there was a transition from individuals practicing privately to a Islamic nation-state. During the period in Medina, the concept of the ummah, Muslim community, came to fruition. The ummah changed the nature of the relationship between Muslims. Rather than focusing on kinship as the tie between people, this new community emphasized common belief in Islam as the foundation for the bond.

In Medina, the focus was not only on the development of personal belief, but on the development of Islam as a complete way of life. This is emphasized by the differences between verses of the Qur’an revealed in Mecca and those revealed in Medina. The verses revealed in Mecca are often shorter, employ more vivid imagery, and focus on themes like the oneness of God, the Day of Judgment, accountability, and the overall purpose of life, while verses revealed in Medina are longer and establish many laws having to do with community life. Also, several important institutions were established in Medina. For example, the first mosque was built in Medina.

It is in Medina that Muslims establish themselves as a community and are then able to expand Islam across the Arabian Peninsula. Thus, the Islamic New Year marks that fateful migration and the establishment of a community that would give rise to a civilization.

According to Muslim sources, the treaty of Medina was violated. History has suggested a number of possibilities for the violation as well as conflicting reports of the number of dead. Regardless of how the event took place Mohammed has now taken a city from those same Jewish people that gave him refuge after his own people turned against him. The thirst for Power, greed and lust must have been deeply rooted in his character by now as Mohammed received his share of the spoils. This could have been his plan from the very beginning. At Medina, the Men of the Banu Qaynuqa numbered 300 to 900 and 1000 women and children. Some historians say all the men were put to death. Others say the men were spared on the insistence of Abd-Allah ibn Ubayy, for this and other conflicts with Mohammed he has been labeled “the leader of the hypocrites”. However, to most it would seem that Abd-Allah ibn Ubayy was the most compassionate and caring in Mohammed’s inner circle. That speaks volumes of how depraved Mohammed has become and he eagerly adds foes and converts in the same manner, by brutality and death.

Since they are all family and friends from the same town it would be difficult to name additional suspects based on revenge from immediate family or friends. Mohammed has uprooted and displaced the entire tribe and taken from them all their possessions. Whoever is spared in the Banu Qaynuqa is sure to harbor deep-seated resentment towards Mohammed but because they are an entire community, I can only add 1600 people as suspects that may want to do Mohammed bodily harm. Combined with the former sum we have reached 4,520 suspects in the case. Most assuredly, hatred towards Mohammed is growing after news of this event reaches other tribes in the area.
www.answers.com...

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The Qur'an briefly refers to the incident in Surah 33:26[19] and Muslim jurists have looked upon Surah 8:55-58 as a justification of the treatment of the Banu Qurayza, arguing that the Qurayza broke their pact with Muhammad, and thus Muhammad was justified in repudiating his side of the pact and killing the Qurayza en masse.
Aiming at placing the events in their historical context, Watt points to the "harsh political circumstances of that era"[12] and argues that the treatment of Qurayza was regular Arab practice.[82] Similar statements are made by Stillman,[31] Paret,[79] Lewis[83] and Rodinson.[67] On the other hand, Michael Lecker and Irving Zeitlin consider the events "unprecedented in the Arab peninsula - a novelty" and state that "prior to Islam, the annihilation of an adversary was never an aim of war."[65][84] Similar statements are made by Hirschberg[85] and Baron.[86]

www.answers.com...
Some of the Jewish tribes of Arabia historically attested include:
Banu Aws[1][2] fled Syria under Ghassanid rule, then fled Yathrib (presently known as Medina), and after explusion by Muhammed, back to Syria
Banu Harith[1][2]
Banu Jusham[1][2]
Banu Najjar[1][2]
Banu Qaynuqa[1][2]
Banu Sa'ida[1][2]
Banu Shutayba[1][2]
Banu Kinanah[1][2]
Jafna Clan of the Banu Thal'aba who were exiled members of the Banu Ghassan - while both tribes were not Jewish, they did have Jewish members; whereas the Jafna Clan was solely Jewish[1][2][3]
Banu Zaura[4]
Banu Zurayq[1][2] In Islamic lore, Labid ben Asam was a Jewish Jinn (Genie) who cast a spell on Prophet Mohammed that prevented Prophet Mohammed from having sexual relations with his wives[5]—thus no male offspring. Prophet Muhammad actually did have male offspring, although none of them survived more than a few years of age.
Banu Quda'a — Himyarite tribe of converts to Sadducee Judaism[6]
Banu Qurayza — sub-clan of the al-Kāhinān, located in Yathrib(Medina), "principal family" fled Syria under Ghassanid rule, then fled Medina, after explusion by Prophet Muhammed, back to Syria
Banu Nadir — sub-clan of the al-Kāhinān, located in Yathrib(Medina)
Banu Juw

www.inthenameofallah.org...&%20Poets.html

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The Siege of the Banu Qaynuqa~
Date: April, 623 A.D
Place: Madina
Victims: The Jewish Tribe of Banu Qaynuqa


In order to get full control of Madina, Muhammad needed to get rid of all his opponents. The strongest of these opponents was Abdallah Ibn Ubayy, a powerful chief who was allied with the Jewish Tribe of Banu Qaynuqa. This tribe was also the weakest, because they were made up of craftsmen, in particular goldsmiths. By attacking them, Muhammad knew he could plunder a huge amount of wealth and weaken Ibn Ubayy.


Muhammad needed an excuse to attack them so he made a girl married to one of his followers, pretend that she had been teased by the Jews. The Muslims blockaded the fort of the Banu Qaynuqa for fifteen days until the starving Jews surrendered. Immediately, Muhammad was ready to kill them all, but Ibn Ubayy seized hold of Muhammad and protested.


Muhammad's face became black with rage as he shouted "Let go of me", but Ibn Ubayy was adamant and shouted back "No, by Allah, I will not let you go until you deal kindly with my allies. 400 men without armour and 300 with, who have always supported me against enemies. And you want to slay them all in one morning! By Allah, If I were in your place I would fear a reversal of fortune"


At this threat, the cowardly Muhammad turned pale, as he realised that all the people of Madina were against him. He hit Ibn Ubayy on the face and ordered that the Jews be kicked out of their own homes. All their property was seized and looted, many of the prettiest women were taken as prisoners to become sex-slaves. Muhammad, as usual, kept one-fifths of the enormous booty for himself. This is the way he repaid the kindness of the Jews of Medina, who had given him shelter and a refuge, when Muhammad had run away from Mecca in fear.


The revelations in the Eighth Sura of the Quran were clearly in reference to the Banu Qaynuqa and anyone who opposed the Muslims.


Al Anfal 8:55-57 "Lo, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe."
"Those of them with whom you made a treaty and then at every opportunity they break their treaty and they keep not duty to Allah, If you come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, so that they may remember."


Here Muhammad's acts of planned terrorism against the Jewish Tribe is justified by Allah, because according to the "Merciful" Allah, Non-Muslims are the worst of BEASTS! So it is perfectly all right to murder, rape, torture and pillage the non-believers!


Not only that but Allah is advising Muhammad and the Muslims that when anyone protests against the injustices committed by Muslims, the Muslims should make sure and deal with them with such violence, that it will strike fear among anyone who may think of supporting dissent. This proves that Muhammad's Quran is nothing but a political manual for controlling people with terror. Not even the fascist armies of Hitler engineered such devilish ideas.

The Quraysh have had one year to prepare for an assault on Medina in an attempt to end Mohammed’s reign of terror. After the slaughter and the looting of Meccans at the well of Badr, the merchants have saved portions of their income over the year to help equip their army of 3000. The Quraysh prepared for battle then moved towards Medina. Mohammed had received a report of the Quraysh advancement and prepared a position. Mohammed followers numbered 700, he placed archers to protect his rear and flanks however, the archers driven by greed broke ranks to loot the dead. The Quraysh seized the moment to and broke Mohammed’s line. Although it is believed that, the Quraysh could have finished Mohammed off in this battle but chose not to do so. The Quraysh also brought with them a number of women to taunt Mohammed’s soldiers during the battle. I found the story of a bereaved widow eating her husband’s killers liver an interesting story. I would guess Mohammad is not well loved by the inhabitants of his hometown. The population estimates of Mecca at the time were 10,000. Around 8,000 people not happy with Mohammed, deducting 1850 suspects from the well of Badr incident that could be as many as 10,670 suspects in the case. Because of the looting and butchery at the well of Badr now Mohammad’s enemies out number his followers

www.inthenameofallah.org...&%20Poets.html

Battle of Uhud~
Date: 21 March, 625 A.D
Place: Mount Uhud
Victims: The Quraysh and their Allies


The people of Mecca were outraged at the massacre and the subsequent mutilation of their kinsmen in the Battle of Badr by Muhammad and his army. They had to fight back in order to defend themselves, so they gathered up an army and set out on the march to Madina.


Muhammad set out with his motley crew of hundreds of Pirates of the Desert. When Muhammad tried forcing the Jews of Madina to join him, they adamantly refused, knowing fully well the true character of the tyrant. Muhammad and his men camped on the slopes of Mount Uhud, above the camp of the Meccan Army.


With his usual insidious manner, Muhammad planned to attack before dawn as the Meccans were asleep. The Muslims were too incompetent to implement even this plan properly and ended up alerting the Meccans during the surprise attack.


At this point the Meccans gathered up their weapons and engaged the Muslims in full combat. Muhammad as usual cowered in the background surrounded by his bunch of bodyguards.


From time to time he would scream out "Who will become a martyr for Allah" and "Which of you will sell himself for us", exhorting his army with promises of paradise if they fought for him. The Muslims, this time however, were no match for the Meccans. Most of them started running for their lives by clambering up the sides of Mount Uhud, at which Muhammad started swearing like a mad man.


It was only by a stroke of good luck that Muhammad survived. His Army was badly defeated and the people of Madina started asking that if this man was indeed a Messenger of Allah, then why had Allah not given the Muslims victory.


To make up for the extreme embarrassment of this defeat Muhammad came up with more "divine revelations" that were obviously excuses for the thorough thrashing that his men and ego had suffered at Uhud.


Muhammad was so obsessed with his own sense of self importance, that he made any action that went against his power a crime. Any Muslim who did not treat Muhammad like Allah, would be punished severely.


The Third Chapter of the Quran is full of these references to the Battle of Uhud:
Al Imran 3:140-1 "And if ye have received a blow, the disbelievers have received a blow the like thereof. These are the vicissitudes which We cause to follow one another for mankind, to the end that Allah may know those who believe and may choose witnesses from among you; and Allah loveth not wrong-doers. And that Allah may prove those who believe and may strike the disbelievers."


Here Muhammad's Allah is conveniently making excuses for the severe defeat of the Muslims, by saying that, although they suffered huge losses, the Meccans also suffered losses. It looks like Muhammad's Allah cannot count, because the Meccan deaths numbered less than 20, where as the number of Muslims killed amounted to over a hundred.


In addition to this, Allah conveniently bails out Muhammad yet again, by explaining away the total decimation of the Muslim Army, with the excuse that it was a "Trial" for the Muslims.


This Surah also makes very clear the reason why Muslims everywhere bring nothing but death and destruction. The Allah of Islam is instructing his followers to PROVE their loyalty by going out and killing unbelievers, therefore, legalizing MURDER and giving it Divine Sanction. And who are those Unbelievers? Any innocent person who does not agree to Muhammad's twisted version of Islam.


A belief system based upon such principles can only be embraced by people of the most inhumane, cruel and barbarous nature.
Al Imran 3:153 "When you climbed the hill and paid no heed, while the Messenger (Muhammad) in your rear was calling you to fight. Therefore he rewarded you grief for his grief that he might teach you, not to sorrow either for that which you missed or for that which befell you. Allah is informed of what you do."


Here Muhammad is lashing out at the followers who ditched him and ran up Mount Uhud for their lives. His ego is so deluded, that in this Surah, he tells his followers that deserting "the Messenger" (Muhammad) is the same as deserting Allah! Muhammad, the Slave of Allah, is thus equating himself with the Supreme power itself.


This is in reality one of the most despicable forms of blackmail that Muhammad used upon his followers.
In short, they were told that anyone who doesn't protect Muhammad with his own life, will be punished by Allah in the form of his family and tribesmen being killed by divine will.

www.al-islam.org...
The Martyrs of Uhad

The most tragic episode of the battle of Uhad was the death of Hamza and the mutilation of his body. After the departure of the Makkans, the Prophet went to see the corpse of his uncle. The ears and the nose had been cut; the abdomen had been slit open, and its organs had been removed. He was overwhelmed with sorrow to see the martyr's body in that state, and ordered it to be covered.

Hinda, the wife of Abu Sufyan and the mother of Muawiya, is called the "liver-eater" in the history of Islam. Ibn Ishaq says that she chewed up the liver of Hamza but could not swallow it. But Ibn Abdul Birr says in his book, Al-Isti'aab, that she actually made a fire in the battle-field, roasted Hamza's liver on it, and ate it!

When the Prophet returned to Medina, he heard the heart-rending lamentations of the members of the bereaved families. The kith and kin of the martyrs of Uhad were mourning their dead. He exclaimed: "Alas! there is no one to mourn the death of my uncle, Hamza." The leaders of the Ansar, upon hearing this remark, went to their homes, and ordered their women to go to the house of the Prophet, and lament the death of his uncle.

Presently a crowd of women of Medina gathered in the house of Muhammad, and they all wept over the tragic death of Hamza, the hero of Islam. The Prophet invoked the blessings of God upon them all. Thereafter it became a custom in Medina that whenever anyone died, his mourners began their lamentations with dirges on Hamza. The people of Medina mourned first for Hamza and then they mourned for their own dead.

Text lesson on farting while praying:

islamicide.com...

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My uncle asked Allah's Apostle about a person who imagined to have passed wind during the prayer. Allah' Apostle replied: "He should not leave his prayers unless he hears sound or smells something." Bukhari V1 B4 N139

You've pretty much been typing to yourself for the past couple of days, huh?
But, whatever floats your boat, I guess.

reply to post by CodyOutlaw

I am sorry if you have spoken, I may not hear you this fine day. I am afraid I missed my prayers last night and now I cannot hear anything.
islamicide.com...

Miss prayers and Satan will pee in your ears:

It was mentioned before the Prophet that there was a man who slept the night till morning (after sunrise). The Prophet said, "He is a man in whose ears (or ear) Satan had urinated." Bukhari V4 B54 N492

The murder of another poet in Medina. Ka`b bin al-Ashraf, from the Tayy tribe openly wrote poems supporting the Meccans against Mohammed. He also let it be publiclly known he did not believe that Mohammed was a phrophet. Mohamed’s men volunteer but are afraid of telling a lie to Kab in order to lure him from his home. When they asked Mohamed, he told them there would be no reprisals from God. It was breaking one of the many treaties of Medina however; God had told Mohammed it was OK. Another poet should account for another 200 suspects. Since this is Mohammed’s first step evicting the entire tribe, I will add to the total then.
www.flex.com...

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Murder of a Jewish poet
Date: Late March 625 A.D.
Place: Fortress of Banu-N-Nadir, outside Medinah
Victims: Kaab Ibn Al' Ashraf
Among the Jewish tribe of Banu-N-Nadir, was an eminent poet by the name of Kaab Ibn Al' Ashraf. He was an extremely famous and cultured poet who was considered a genius of verse.He had composed a lament about the Quray#es who had been so unjustly massacred in the battle of Badr. One day the Prophet proclaimed in his usual sweet manner " Who will rid me of the dog Kaab Ibn Al Ashraf?". A certain Muhammad Bin Maslama replied that he would do it, adding "We shall have to tell lies to do it". Inevitably the Prophet immediately gave the divine authority to lie as necessary. Muhammad Maslama bribed the foster brother of Kaab, a man called Silkan, who was a Muslim. The following night Kaab was visited by his loving foster brother and spent a pleasant evening reciting poetry. Needless to say, after dark, Kaab was dragged out of his bed screaming, and stabbed repeatedly by Muhammad Maslama, Silkan and two other devout Muslims, in full view of his young wife to be. Indeed what a great example of kindness and tolerance, was the Prophet of Islam!

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

It is highly debatable that Yehoshua fulfills the prophecies for the Immanu'el.
Historically speaking, it is much more likely that he represents another god entirely.

I refer you to my 3 part post of fulfilled OT prophecies of Jesus?
Genesis 3 - Psalms 22 prophecies fulfilled

Psalms 22 - Isaiah 9 prophecies fulfilled

Isaiah 11 - Isaiah 53 Prophecies fullfiled

Isaiah 53- Malachi 4 prophecies Fulfilled

Post on Talmudic curse for finding when the Messiah would come from Daniel 9

-----------------------------------
P.S great post Lonewolf...i came across this vid about when it was first released. It is so good. Have you come across the vid made by his mate Keith Thompson presenting how Muhammed fulfills the description of the biblical case of demon possession as well...that vid and accompany article is a quality piece of work too

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


And if I may, I will refer you to my previous post on how none of these were fulfilled:

Post is here

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

 

And if I may, I will refer you to my previous post on how none of these were fulfilled:

Post is here

I have had a look at your arguments and they reflect extremely poor scholarship which can all be argued against...to set every error you have to the right understanding though will probably take me close to 6hours or more of effort and I have to weigh up whether it is worth my time to be bothered when this reflects such low standards of what is considered rigorous scholarship. I hope to make time to address some of these but a post might not be coming for maybe 4-5 days