** BREAKING NEWS: The guy handing out fake slates in Maine works for ROMNEY (suprise?) **

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
This guy is a GOP hero, he will make it far and rise to the top for such heroic efforts to neutralize the Party imposter Ron Paul and his tampering with the delegate process. That is what all the Party officials will see him as, he won't get as much as a slap on the wrist.

Nothing illegal here, there are no Party rules against this.

It takes a fraud to defend a fraud.

Originally posted by DelMarvel


Interestingly, I've seen the opposite argument used here several times by Paul supporters. The claim is made that Paul is right and majority of Republican primary voters are "sheep" who don't know better so that justifies the stealth delegate campaign.

You mean that when the Paul camp follows the election rules people cry foul and whine?

I find it interesting that when any candidate wins a delegate it's normal everyday business, but when Paul wins a few dozen it's suddenly anti-democracy? Get a grip.

Originally posted by bl4ke360

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
This guy is a GOP hero, he will make it far and rise to the top for such heroic efforts to neutralize the Party imposter Ron Paul and his tampering with the delegate process. That is what all the Party officials will see him as, he won't get as much as a slap on the wrist.

Nothing illegal here, there are no Party rules against this.

It takes a fraud to defend a fraud.

edit on 5/11/2012 by bl4ke360 because: (no reason given)

Wrong, the United States Code has precedence over all activities within the United States unless specifically prohibited by the Constitution or delegated to the States.

Election fraud is a federal and state crime, passing out ANY DECEPTIVE DOCUMENT with the intent of damaging the outcome of a election is considered intimidation and illegal.

Now that the crimes are out in the open, they are trying to claim this is legit acceptable behavior?
So that means I can legally go out and deceive and mislead all of the Romney camp by passing out fraudulent materials with ROMNEY's NAME ON THEM?
Don't think so, it's a felony.

reply to post by muzzleflash


RonPaulForums

From the Daily Paul: Submitted by SteveMartin on Fri, 05/11/2012 - 06:11.

Permalink 4. Class B crime. A person commits a Class B crime if that person: A. Tampers with ballots or voting lists or opens or breaks a seal of a sealed box or packages of ballots or voting lists with the intent of changing the outcome of any election, except as permitted by this Title. [1993, c. 473, §18 (NEW); 1993, c. 473, §46 (AFF).] [ 1993, c. 473, §18 (NEW); 1993, c. 473, §46 (AFF) .]
This is Maine we are talking about.

Submitted by SteveMartin on Fri, 05/11/2012 - 06:02. Permalink Maine's Class E election crimes repealed three months ago... Could this be a RINO/Romney deal to allow the fake slates?:

www.mainelegislature.org...
Submitted by SteveMartin on Fri, 05/11/2012 - 06:07.
Permalink Lots of election laws repealed....just before the Maine caucuses.
Hmmmm...
www.mainelegislature.org...
www.mainelegislature.org...
www.mainelegislature.org...
All repealed in early February, just before the 2/4/12 caucuses began.

So according to one of the posters on the forum... they said the fraud laws were repealed back in February...

Coincidence Theory?
or
Conspiracy Theory?

The US Code alone is over 200,000 pages long.
Every State has their own laws as well.
And so does every local community.

So with over a half million pages of laws governing the behavior of humans in every aspect, it is actually easy to find multiple infractions against virtually anyone. Show me the person I'll show you the crime.

Nailing these fools with felonies isn't as hard as you think.

They want you to not look up this stuff by saying "This is legal behavior", but that's just another lie.
Voter intimidation and deceptive practices are illegal in any Federal, State, or County election.

I think it's time to find these guys a nice cell in the penitentiary.

reply to post by ugie1028


You can repeal one fraud law but within this mountain of laws I promise we can find a dozen more to replace it.

Don't lose hope, we can use the system against them.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by bl4ke360

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
This guy is a GOP hero, he will make it far and rise to the top for such heroic efforts to neutralize the Party imposter Ron Paul and his tampering with the delegate process. That is what all the Party officials will see him as, he won't get as much as a slap on the wrist.

Nothing illegal here, there are no Party rules against this.

It takes a fraud to defend a fraud.

edit on 5/11/2012 by bl4ke360 because: (no reason given)

Wrong, the United States Code has precedence over all activities within the United States unless specifically prohibited by the Constitution or delegated to the States.

Election fraud is a federal and state crime, passing out ANY DECEPTIVE DOCUMENT with the intent of damaging the outcome of a election is considered intimidation and illegal.

Now that the crimes are out in the open, they are trying to claim this is legit acceptable behavior?
So that means I can legally go out and deceive and mislead all of the Romney camp by passing out fraudulent materials with ROMNEY's NAME ON THEM?
Don't think so, it's a felony.

What are you replying to me for, all I said was TinfoilTP is a fraud for defending Romney who is a fraud.

reply to post by g146541 and democide

Gentlemen,

I completely agree with you that being deceptive is usually a moral error, a bad thing to do. But it is not always a crime, telling a date that she is the most beautiful woman you've ever seen, for example.

I agree that fake slates are wrong, but are they illegal? I don't see it in this case.

As I understand it voting fraud is a crime against the constitution. The deliberate fraud makes a mockery of the system and therefore undermines the very foundation of the country.

Whle this might end up affecting a federal election, delegate selection is not a federal election. To use an extreme case, this is more like a Rotary Club election, a private group conducting its own business. Voting fraud applies to election for governing officials, that isn't the case here.

The offense would be CONSPIRACY!
Did you know that it is illegal to conspire to steal a candy bar.
Surely conspiring to rig a federal election must be worse, amiright?

Almost. Certainly not all conspiracies are illegal, a group getting together to throw a surprise party is a conspiracy for which one can not be charged. You can charge conspiracy when it's a conspiracy to commit an illegal act. My point is, that as mean as this may be, I haven't yet had anyone explain why it is a crime.

With respect,
Charles1952

Stupid B-Holes I dont like what the media is doing to this country and for that matter this world.

how the media has treated this and countless other situations is presicely the reason that this fraud is possibe right under the worlds nose.

Rediculous....

heres a very well presented report on this subject including tryanny in
america peoples thoughts on it w/ interviews and how the majority of the public either seems not to care or even notice


not to mention fully featured graphics featurettes... and this guy made everything in this video himself. wow... even the lighting, he hand modeled every graphic, he heven hand modeled his own set.

reply to post by muzzleflash


no way in hell im losing hope.

I just want to know what law we can hang the Romney campaign with. Once that happens... its game over.

"This isn't a federal election" -

Than why do Federal Election Campaign Laws govern what campaigns can and cannot do, and govern the types of and amounts of funding they can receive?

So it IS a federal election process when we are talking about money and campaign liability.
But when it comes to voter fraud it's not a federal election and federal laws should not apply?
Yeah right.

FEC. GOV

§ 431. Definitions When used in this Act:
(1) The term “election” means—
(A) a general, special, primary, or runoff election;
(B) a convention or caucus of a political party which has authority to nominate a candidate;
(C)a primary election held for the selection of delegates to a national nominating convention of a political party; and
(D) a primary election held for the expression of a preference for the nomination of individuals for election to the office of President.

This IS A FEDERAL ELECTION BY DEFINITION.
Therefore Federal Law applies and this is voter intimidation and fraud.

Originally posted by ugie1028
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

no way in hell im losing hope.

I just want to know what law we can hang the Romney campaign with. Once that happens... its game over.

Read my post above.
You get the tar, I'll get the feathers.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by bl4ke360

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
This guy is a GOP hero, he will make it far and rise to the top for such heroic efforts to neutralize the Party imposter Ron Paul and his tampering with the delegate process. That is what all the Party officials will see him as, he won't get as much as a slap on the wrist.

Nothing illegal here, there are no Party rules against this.

It takes a fraud to defend a fraud.

edit on 5/11/2012 by bl4ke360 because: (no reason given)

Wrong, the United States Code has precedence over all activities within the United States unless specifically prohibited by the Constitution or delegated to the States.

Election fraud is a federal and state crime, passing out ANY DECEPTIVE DOCUMENT with the intent of damaging the outcome of a election is considered intimidation and illegal.

Now that the crimes are out in the open, they are trying to claim this is legit acceptable behavior?
So that means I can legally go out and deceive and mislead all of the Romney camp by passing out fraudulent materials with ROMNEY's NAME ON THEM?
Don't think so, it's a felony.

That is in a national election, this is a Party election, much like a bunch of grandmas competing for top dog of their bingo club. The head of the Bingo club could do all the paper work, pay all the fees across the country and run their pick for president on their own slate in November (assuming they the Bingo club completed all the legal documentation on time everywhere). The federal government is not going to have jurisdiction over the grandmas cheating each other for their Partys seat to run in November.

The laws and examples apply to national elections, this GOP Primary is not the national election. It is nowhere in the Constitution. That will be in November and yes, if false info is used to trick voters there, it will be a crime, here it is not. Just like if Paul fanatics show up at the voting locations trying to spam and intimidate all the real americans from voting for a real candidate, they will be carted off to jail.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
"This isn't a federal election" -

Than why do Federal Election Campaign Laws govern what campaigns can and cannot do, and govern the types of and amounts of funding they can receive?

So it IS a federal election process when we are talking about money and campaign liability.
But when it comes to voter fraud it's not a federal election and federal laws should not apply?
Yeah right.

FEC. GOV

§ 431. Definitions When used in this Act:
(1) The term “election” means—
(A) a general, special, primary, or runoff election;
(B) a convention or caucus of a political party which has authority to nominate a candidate;
(C) a primary election held for the selection of delegates to a national nominating convention of a political party; and
(D) a primary election held for the expression of a preference for the nomination of individuals for election to the office of President.

This IS A FEDERAL ELECTION BY DEFINITION.
Therefore Federal Law applies and this is voter intimidation and fraud.

edit on 11-5-2012 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

Apples to Oranges that only involves campaign finance, because the money brought in during the primary will carry over into the National election, which is part of the Constitution.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Done and done! starred.

Got some leftover tar from repairing my garage roof....

Originally posted by charles1952

I completely agree with you that being deceptive is usually a moral error, a bad thing to do. But it is not always a crime, telling a date that she is the most beautiful woman you've ever seen, for example.

I agree that fake slates are wrong, but are they illegal?

Sadly your personal opinion matters very little when it comes to Federal Election Laws, as they are plain as day and publicly posted for all to review.

Clearly it defines a "Federal Election" as including primaries and caucuses for federal offices.

Therefore we have huge books full of federal laws that apply.


Also we can pull laws out that don't even directly apply but can still be applied.

Like "Impersonating a Government Official", of which Ron Paul is technically a Government Official, and therefore it is a felony to impersonate him.
The creator of the fake ballots wrote his name on top of it, lacking a "paid for by RP" isn't enough to clear it of all wrongdoing see, because even putting a false misleading heading on any legal document and misusing deceptively the name of a Government Official still applies.
See 18 USC § 912

I can sit here all day and find crimes if that's my prerogative.

Also every state has it's own laws pertaining to impersonating individuals.
For example here is Penal Code 529 PC from California:
False Impersonation

Or here take a look at Texas code, Perjury and Falsification

(3) "Statement" means any representation of fact.

So we could possibly hit them up under these types of anti-deception laws, due to the false statements being made. Especially since we have paper documentation proving there were altercations.

Each state has different laws, but they all fall under federal jurisdiction as well since it's a federal election.
So what I am saying is that there is a treasure trove of regulations and laws on the books for us to start pulling out and using against them.

Originally posted by ugie1028
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Done and done! starred.

Got some leftover tar from repairing my garage roof....

Good I was worried we may not have enough tar or feathers.
I was about to get out the grease and spoons!

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by g146541 and democide

 

Gentlemen,

I completely agree with you that being deceptive is usually a moral error, a bad thing to do. But it is not always a crime, telling a date that she is the most beautiful woman you've ever seen, for example.

I agree that fake slates are wrong, but are they illegal? I don't see it in this case.

As I understand it voting fraud is a crime against the constitution. The deliberate fraud makes a mockery of the system and therefore undermines the very foundation of the country.

Whle this might end up affecting a federal election, delegate selection is not a federal election. To use an extreme case, this is more like a Rotary Club election, a private group conducting its own business. Voting fraud applies to election for governing officials, that isn't the case here.

The offense would be CONSPIRACY!
Did you know that it is illegal to conspire to steal a candy bar.
Surely conspiring to rig a federal election must be worse, amiright?

Almost. Certainly not all conspiracies are illegal, a group getting together to throw a surprise party is a conspiracy for which one can not be charged. You can charge conspiracy when it's a conspiracy to commit an illegal act. My point is, that as mean as this may be, I haven't yet had anyone explain why it is a crime.

With respect,
Charles1952

Lemme help you abit here, conspiracy to do anything is illegal.
My old instructor advised me that even the act of conspiring to steal a CANDY BAR is a felony.
This was in the state of Kalifornia and many years ago but, I'm sure that has not changed.

In order for someone to "conspire" to throw a surprise party, there must be illegal activity built into the event.
Hope this helps here.


con·spir·a·cy
   [kuhn-spir-uh-see]
noun, plural con·spir·a·cies.
1.
the act of conspiring.
2.
an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3.
a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4.
Law . an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5.
any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

I hope that clears things up on what is and what is not a conspiracy.
So, The man in question has conspired to do something nefarious, in Kalifornia and most probably every state this would be a felony.
Any conspiracy is a bad thing, and you'd think that folks on a conspiracy theory website would know the meaning of the word.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

You mean that when the Paul camp follows the election rules people cry foul and whine?

I'm talking about people here who say it is right to appoint a slate of Paul delegates when the popular vote for that state did not go to Paul because the majority of voters are "sheeple" who shouldn't have a say anyway.

And even a statement from Paul's campaign manager implies that Paul supporters are breaking the rules:

The Ron Paul campaign’s delegate-attainment strategy being implemented nationally at party processes that follow so-called ‘beauty contests’ is not, and has never been, meant to somehow rewrite the outcome of past nominating contests. In Idaho, isolated instances of grassroots activists working toward an ostensible ‘hostile takeover’ of the GOP are not sanctioned by the Ron Paul national campaign

Lastly, our campaign does not want its message that Paul activists be civil and operate in accordance with local GOP rules to have a chilling effect.

www.politico.com...

Originally posted by eLPresidente
one of the Romney supporters here on ATS (jff3rd or whatever) was trying to place the blame on Ron Paul supporters faking Romney fraud.


funny how things work.

hahahahaha...are you serious? I mean, I've seen his posts about Romney, but really? That's the biggest stretch ever! "I'm going to pass out fake slates that could cost me the nomination just so I can cry foul when I lose the nomination" That's the worse conspiracy theory I have EVER heard!