The Suspicious Death of MI6 Agent Gareth Williams..

The part I love about this is the, "...speculation that he may have been murdered," part.

Are you kidding me? Found stuffed in an over-sized gym bag in the bathtub?

What other conclusion could one come too?


NOT A REAL NEWS STORY....
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And preliminary sources indicate that the death may have been caused by a new form
a pleasurable suicide that is sweeping the country....

"Naked auto-erotic-gym-bag-asphyxia-suicide."
-----------------------------------------

Gotta love the way we politically-correctly tiptoe around nowadays.

This guy was murdered

no mystery here, just ya average mi6 cross dressing kinky homo-sexual getting nis lover to lock him in a bag, move along nothing to see.

reply to post by Rising Against


The key to this is obviously the bag. In the Intel world there is the known, the unknown and what is said. The body in the locked bag is whats being said, the death is the known and why is the unknown. I mean who the f@ck goes thru all the trouble to put some one in a bag and then lock it? If you have control over the individual enough to get him in, then you probably could have just killed him and then put him in the bag. The lock is very interesting, a message to all perhaps and with out more info on his MI6 background I am afraid it won't be known. Thanks for the story, my condolences to the family.

The things that stick out about this case are probably where the answers ultimately lie. The lack of fingerprints on multiple objects and surfaces is a dead-giveaway of a cleanup. The fact that ANY amount of GHB was found is in itself not normal imo. The fact that the body was found and analyzed so long after death seems quite mysterious, considering that he was probably killed via a drug, and that certain drugs are not detectable after about that length of time.

The fact that the intel guys HELD the body makes me think they have a hand in it somehow...Either in the lead-up to murder, the murder itself, or a clean-up after the murder. The one thing that bothers me is that he was found tied up on his bed at one time. May be just a coincidence, because I am certain he did not put himself in that bag. No way.

Also, the blatant attempt to discredit this guy are obvious, and point to a coverup of some type imo. This was not suicide, but homicide, and IF the government had anything to do with it, it we NOT be ruled a homicide. It's a catch 22 as far as the truth is concerned, because if it was murder by the agency or due to his work, it won't be ruled murder, and the public will speculate a coverup. If it is ruled a homicide, then it's a homicide. Strange case. I have never heard of this case, so thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Once again a very good thread and read and thanks for your efforts there RA.
I read this thread this morning but waited to reply until the wife came home from work.
She is a Yoga instructor and I wanted to pick her brain on the bag.
In her opinion and it is just that you would have to be about 120 pounds maximum and a contortionist and a very good one at that.

She won't comment on the locking of the bag as there is no real good picture of where the lock was.
I myself was wondering about the lack of foot and toe prints and thought I better check this out.
They are as unique as finger prints so one print is good for one person only.
What made me check this out was the picture of the bathroom/loo and the shiny white tiles and I thought to myself there has got to be a ton of prints on that tile.
Being no foot prints is an impossibility being that he was barefoot.

Link Below
www.spsa-forensics.police.uk...

Fascinating and your thread reads just like a "Who did it?" Novel.
S&F
Regards, Iwinder

Others probably made similar observation, but not enough time to read through the whole thread right now.

That they suggest this is suicide makes the official version look like a complete cover up.

Like the joke, "Worse case of suicide I ever heard of, guy beat himself to death with a baseball hat."

I do find it hard to believe that any straight man would buy his female relatives lots and lots of expensive designer clothes. So the man lead an alternative lifestyle, doesn't make him suicidal, or a possible double agent.

Now if he was into B&D, maybe a possible thing gone wrong, but being that no clues could be found, sounds like a pro job with such a well done clean up, hard to believe MI6 was not involved, for whatever reason.

I think I might have read about this before, sounds familiar.

Honestly... if this was truly an inside job then they could easily make him dissapear completely. That means no body being found.

Originally posted by diamount
Honestly... if this was truly an inside job then they could easily make him dissapear completely. That means no body being found.

Without a trace is more suspicious than a body in a bag in the bathtub...
Hmmmm now that I said this I wonder what is more suspicious?
His flat looked like it was in a fairly dense neighbourhood so it is not like you can walk up to the fourth floor and carry his sorry ass out and not be seen.
I will go with my fist feelings here that they could not remove his body without being seen, day or night.
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by Iwinder

Originally posted by diamount
Honestly... if this was truly an inside job then they could easily make him dissapear completely. That means no body being found.

Without a trace is more suspicious than a body in a bag in the bathtub...
Hmmmm now that I said this I wonder what is more suspicious?
His flat looked like it was in a fairly dense neighbourhood so it is not like you can walk up to the fourth floor and carry his sorry ass out and not be seen.
I will go with my fist feelings here that they could not remove his body without being seen, day or night.
Regards, Iwinder

This is the MI6, they can do what they want. Evacuate the street his house/flat was on because of a gas leak for 24-48 hours, dispose of the body, make it look like he left the country for his mental stability. Loads of people go missing without a trace, not sure how one guy would make a difference. Now a body found in a bag, with no force means of entry into his house, and no signs of resistance on his body or around his flat.

No - I'd say that is more fishy than him just dissapearing.

Originally posted by diamount

Originally posted by Iwinder

Originally posted by diamount
Honestly... if this was truly an inside job then they could easily make him dissapear completely. That means no body being found.

Without a trace is more suspicious than a body in a bag in the bathtub...
Hmmmm now that I said this I wonder what is more suspicious?
His flat looked like it was in a fairly dense neighbourhood so it is not like you can walk up to the fourth floor and carry his sorry ass out and not be seen.
I will go with my fist feelings here that they could not remove his body without being seen, day or night.
Regards, Iwinder

This is the MI6, they can do what they want. Evacuate the street his house/flat was on because of a gas leak for 24-48 hours, dispose of the body, make it look like he left the country for his mental stability. Loads of people go missing without a trace, not sure how one guy would make a difference. Now a body found in a bag, with no force means of entry into his house, and no signs of resistance on his body or around his flat.

No - I'd say that is more fishy than him just dissapearing.

Points taken and just maybe they wanted it to look like that, sloppy job so who would blame M16?
boggles my mind and thanks for kicking me in the head:-) I can't imagine being a spy and trying to figure out who is who and still sleep at night.
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by Iwinder


It's a strange affair. Would've thought maybe a burglary gone awry and Gareth maybe mortally injured during a struggle would be a better scenario but hypothesizing a guy's possible deaths is rather morbid. But leaving a body in a bag and not disposing of it says maybe the killer was interrupted or was disturbed by something.

Nothing suspicious here. There's even a precedent...

reply to post by Rising Against


Thanks, I never heard of this case but it does sounds like it was an inside job but not authorized. Almost as if someone wanted him gone because of what he knew or did with other poeple who may have been into his lifestyle but was also MI6.

Here is the information that I referred to earlier, that he was working on a project to trace financial assets at the time of his death...which isn't exactly what he was doing, my recollection was slightly off...but even so, here it is...

He was working on systems to defend British banks and transport infrastructure from cyber attack and to eavesdrop on terrorist communications. He had been on assignment with the MI6 spy agency. He also played an important role creating equipment to listen to Taliban communications in Afghanistan and had helped to fit out three aircraft with the equipment, making them airborne-listening stations.

www.dailyrosetta.com...

What people on this thread seem to be missing here, is that he wasn't a 'spy' or even an 'agent' he was a salaried employee. There is a significant difference. He was not engaged in covert operations, but was attending his job on a, roughly, nine to five basis, like any other employee, anywhere else in the world. The only really legitimate reason that MI6 would have to 'off' him, is if he had served his purpose, or he was compromised in some way. If it is the latter, then the possibility is that he had been approached by another agency and was supplying them with classified information. That would make him a spy, but not for MI6, for whoever he was supplying.

Looking at all the work that Williams had done for MI6 and the NSA, it seems unlikely that either agency would want to get rid of someone so talented, unless he was compromised.

As far as his alleged 'lifestyle' is concerned, it has been a longtime tradition amongst SIS agencies to actively seek out individuals with certain proclivities because they are more open to blackmail and can therefore be more easily coerced into 'betraying' their employers. In the fifties and sixties, when homosexuality was still illegal, many such individuals were used as agents by both MI6 and the KGB for that reason. Anthony Cavendish, a former MI6 agent, in his book, Inside Intelligence, goes into some details about this practice. So it is possible that Williams may have fallen victim to such co-ercion if indeed he did have a weakness of that kind.

The fact that gareth williams s body was found in a bag and no one knows if he died in the bag reminds me of "schrodingers cat" and quantum entanglement, which is a characteristic of a quantum state that is a combination of the states of two systems (for example, two subatomic particles), that once interacted but were then separated and are not each in a definite state.I am sure the people who put him there were hinting to others in the same "field" how clever the murder/s are gareth williams had recently been to "the black hat briefings" which is about cyber security using quantum cryptography. the fact that the keys to the bag were in the bag with gareth but the answer to the "puzzle" the lock was on the outside of the bag again shows to me a conection with the computor hacking world
As a sideline to this i notice Raytheon the company conected to the very strange deaths of so many scientists in england in the 1980s www2.fiu.edu... is heavily conected to quantum cryptography
the real truth about gareth williams and his untimely death i am sure relates to so much more than we will ever know

I'm a long time lurker and first time poster!!

I joined the forum to say THANK YOU for such an indepth and fabulous post on this very tragic and very weird death. I am from the UK, Wales in fact, and have followed the story with deep interest since it broke a few years back.

I think he was murdered. I feel he obviously stumbled upon something that rattled too many cages.

I also seem to remember a very early news report of poor Gareth being dismembered as well as being in some liquid. I can't be 100 percent, and I wonder if any other readers from the UK remember this?

Anyway, thanks again
peace
C777

Originally posted by cagliostro777
I also seem to remember a very early news report of poor Gareth being dismembered as well as being in some liquid. I can't be 100 percent, and I wonder if any other readers from the UK remember this?

As I recall, that was an initial rumour in the media...the assumption being, that someone would have to have been dismembered in order to have been fitted into a bag. It was pretty early on refuted by the Police.

This guy was dead and put in the bag. I imagine, if he was alive he could get enough strength to rip open the bag at the zipper as it looks made of plastic, or maybe use the keys as a tool to puncture the bag and rip it open. The story didn't go much into how strong this bag is. However, they did say there was no signs of struggle in the bag, rips etc. As for the clothing and he's a spy maybe his job required him to go undercover? Just a thought. Another thing he appears to have a short haircut (hence wigs). His wig sitting on the chair there was probably used by him. The story is weird that's for sure.

reply to post by sean


Yes, that is the most telling part of his death, that no sign of him fighting to get out of the bag has been found or reported. So he was either dead already, or drugged to sleep, and so his death is a mystery. Maybe he was knocked out and the air was somehow sucked out of the bag before it was finally closed (with the key in the bag with him? Was this a magic act gone wrong?)

What's also interesting is that here's an average looking guy just living in an apartment and, in his day job, he was working on spying on his fellow citizens. All these people think that they are just a cog in a machine, and that they are earning money by doing what they are told. As an agent he was a peon, as a symbol of what an agent looks and acts like, in public and in private, he has at least risen above the pack to be seen by the public.

So, what of the mysterious 'Mediterranean' looking man and women in all of this?
According to eye-witnesses, Williams met with the couple a few times in June and July at a coffee-shop not far from his apartment.
He waited for them, they arrived, and for a few minutes, all three said a few things between each other and then the couple left.
Apparantly, the couople had been to his apartment also because they had not been 'buzzed' into the building when they did so.

Were they the 'foreign-agency' members who Williams was:
a) leaking information to
b) being blackmailed by
c) have anything to do with his death

If a) and b) and Williams decided he wasn't go to give up anything else to them, did they drug/poison Williams, put him into the bag and then lift it into the bath and make it look like a 'hit'?

Or, if it's solely a) have they too, now disappeared and cannot be traced>.
(have they also been 'removed from the equation'?)