The Suspicious Death of MI6 Agent Gareth Williams..

reply to post by Rising Against


Another superior job of researching, writing, and analysis. I skimmed it for those factors and of course found them quickly, and will bookmark this for a much closer reading later. I must go grab my dufflebag and take a bath now.

From the OP

Instead he was being trained for undercover work, something he allegedly broke to a friend of his just prior to his death:

I think his employers might call that a good enough reason on it's own, if he couldn't keep what he was doing a secret then he was in the wrong line of business.

reply to post by yellowbeard

I think his employers might call that a good enough reason on it's own, if he couldn't keep what he was doing a secret then he was in the wrong line of business.

I've not posted all that much over the past day as I wanted to leave the thread alone for a while and see where the discussion went, but I just had to reply to your comment there.

As far as I'm personally aware, Gareth Williams wasn't your average extrovert. If anything he was the opposite, an introvert. He seemed to be shy, relatively quiet, often kept himself to himself and had few friends. For those reasons, his personality, it does seem quite far-fetched to me to belief that he was as his friend claimed, and claimed after he died might I add, which was gearing towards any sort of under cover work. It just doesn't suit his personality.

There's would be hundreds of more suitable candidates for such a thing really. Gareth was simply the thinker, the the maths guy if you will, the guy who would most likely be thinking up and planning every step of an Intelligence mission of that kind.. but for someone else to carry out in fact.

But, of course, that's just my opinion on that issue in particular. I am very skeptical of the claim that he was working towards any kind of under cover work though. It's of course a possibility, but I just can't see it at all.

The claims made by Sian Lloyd-Jones, his friend, can also be found here for others who may have missed it: www.dailymail.co.uk...

reply to post by Rising Against


Awesome thread, I live in the UK so I have read a fait bit about this in the papers. Thanks for filling in the blanks and informing our freiends around the world of this story.

‘Traditionally, there has been a separation of MI6 and GCHQ,’ said the expert. ‘MI6 has been full of the James Bond types working on the ground and GCHQ is filled with boffins with beards who are doing their scientific stuff. ‘But recently there has been a merger of these agencies’ work and Williams was at the forefront of that. This was why he was on secondment to MI6.’

I think we have a clue right here.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by yellowbeard

 

I think his employers might call that a good enough reason on it's own, if he couldn't keep what he was doing a secret then he was in the wrong line of business.

I've not posted all that much over the past day as I wanted to leave the thread alone for a while and see where the discussion went, but I just had to reply to your comment there.

As far as I'm personally aware, Gareth Williams wasn't your average extrovert. If anything he was the opposite, an introvert. He seemed to be shy, relatively quiet, often kept himself to himself and had few friends. For those reasons, his personality, it does seem quite far-fetched to me to belief that he was as his friend claimed, and claimed after he died might I add, which was gearing towards any sort of under cover work. It just doesn't suit his personality.

There's would be hundreds of more suitable candidates for such a thing really. Gareth was simply the thinker, the the maths guy if you will, the guy who would most likely be thinking up and planning every step of an Intelligence mission of that kind.. but for someone else to carry out in fact.

But, of course, that's just my opinion on that issue in particular. I am very skeptical of the claim that he was working towards any kind of under cover work though. It's of course a possibility, but I just can't see it at all.

The claims made by Sian Lloyd-Jones, his friend, can also be found here for others who may have missed it: www.dailymail.co.uk...

The best spy is the man or woman that you would least expect to be a spy. In that sense maybe Gareth Williams were a good spy. Did he betray his country ? Did he divulge secrets to the enemy ? Maybe in so doing he was caught and thus paid with his life.

reply to post by CAELENIUM

The best spy is the man or woman that you would least expect to be a spy.

That's a great point, no denying that. And I could still be wrong with my suspicions about the "spy story" of course.

At the same time however, I think it really has to be said that the best spy is he, or she, who could do the best job possible and still go undetected. Gareth could go undetected, he is after all an unlikely spy imo, but would he be the best undercover spy? Taking his personality into consideration, I'm just not convinced he would.

And I've not come across anything to suggest he betrayed his country or divulged secrets to anyone (although we do know he was working on secretive projects and I highlighted one in my opening post), unless you belief Sian who claims she was told Gareth was working towards undercover work - thus he revealed something here obviously he wasn't supposed to.

Wow fantastic presentation RA & an excellent read!

I hadn't heard of this case either (I'm in Oz), but the first thing that struck me was the suggestion of suicide.
Unless he had a personality of Charles Manson (Who I could imagine doing it for the notoriety!), who the hell would consider ways of suicide & come up with that as an option?
Honestly its ridiculous! If I was going to check myself out, it sure as hell would be as quick, painless and COMFORTABLE as possible. Folding myself in a bag in the bath.....mmmmm nah!

I'm going to say again I believe his death was to send a message for people in the know, example a red bag is significant if you understand what you are looking at
red bag  
    n  (in Britain) a fabric bag for a barrister's robes, presented by a Queen's Counsel to a junior in appreciation of good work in a case  
mobile-dictionary.reverso.net...
I won't delve further because I'm limited to my mobile at the time being but perhaps this is an avenue to approach, this would be the work in my opinion of a multi agency operation kind of like my platoon stole your guidon and used its insignia and numbers in a photo some how and sent u a Facebook pic only the people these things are meaningful too understand, this in my opinion is what you call unofficial lines of communication to competitive powers

ETA: you should look up barrister as well if you don't know what that is, hint queens lawyer that talks in court or something to that effect

reply to post by Rising Against


Once again another interesting thread RA! They always keep me interested

You should write books man!!

hey, another great thread.

I read an interesting article the other day by an intelligence expert who said it was strange how that over the years sex games have featured in many spy deaths (usually to look like suicide).

Here is the article (although I originally read it in the newspaper)
www.mirror.co.uk...

From the article

In 1983, 25-year-old Stephen Drinkwater, who worked as a clerk at GCHQ, was found dead at his home with a plastic bag over his head.

In 1997 another worker, Nicholas Husband, 46, was found dead at home dressed in a bra and panties – with a plastic bag over his head.

Originally posted by crimsongod21
reply to post by tommyjo

 

my question to you is could he get in the bag lock it, then go about cleaning up the bathroom behind himself?

It is a claim and suggestion that the flat was cleaned and not a proven fact. Cleaned as in professionally cleaned of evidence. Both bag experts at the inquest didn't rule out that Gareth Williams couldn't have locked himself in the bag. William MacKay maintained that it was actually possible that the MI6 officer could have locked himself in. "I would not like to say that it could not be done. Peter Faulding also stated I cannot say it was impossible. It certainly requires a re-think and for someone of Gareth Williams body mass / height to repeat the tests.

reply to post by tommyjo


Maybe i miss read the article but i believe it was stated that no finger prints or dna was found on the bathtub or in the bathroom at all. To me that sounds like the bathroom would have had to been cleaned after Gareth was inside the bag so as not to lose a single hair or to have touched the tub at all with his hands.

though then again i miss read the article it is a possibility and if that is the case i apologize.

thank you and good day/night depending on your location in this universe

reply to post by Rising Against


Thanks for sharing, haunting mystery.

This further reinforces the fact that one shouldn't work for intelligence.

I wasn't aware of the fluid in the bag. My theory is probably wrong. I still think sex was involved somehow.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Have they released any proof of this? Are there not CCTV cameras all over the place?

reply to post by Dustytoad


There probably was, although London does appear to be the main infestation focus area of CCTV cameras in the UK. Although the same source did claim that the entire city of San Francisco only had 72 security cameras, so who knows.

I guess it's moot, they would be "down for maintenance" anyway.

reply to post by rtyfx


Yeah, fluid?

Surely someone must be able to determine what the 'fluid' was and thus be able to make a reasonable assumption what it was used for.

Far too many loose ends and certainly not enough critical questions being asked by the authorities.

Originally posted by crimsongod21
reply to post by tommyjo

 

Maybe i miss read the article but i believe it was stated that no finger prints or dna was found on the bathtub or in the bathroom at all. To me that sounds like the bathroom would have had to been cleaned after Gareth was inside the bag so as not to lose a single hair or to have touched the tub at all with his hands.

though then again i miss read the article it is a possibility and if that is the case i apologize.

thank you and good day/night depending on your location in this universe

No problem. Thanks for the reply. If you look at a lot of reporting into the case it would give you the impression that Garth Williams footprints were not found in the bathroom. The 'third party clean up' is only a theory. There were mistakes made and admitted to by the detective leading the investigation, Jackie Sebire. It was only the mix-up with the DNA sample that led to the footprints found being re-examined. The footprint turned out to be Mr Williams. Semen was also found in the bathroom and found to be Mr Williams.

www.louisville-pc.com...

A similar mis-categorisation of DNA evidence occurred with a footprint found in the bathroom, the inquest heard.

The mark was initially classified as "unidentified" but in light of what had happened with the DNA sample on the spy's hand, Ms Sebire asked for it to be re-checked and it was then found to be Mr Williams's, she said.

It was a really long and detailed post, didn't read all of it. But with current happenings all over the world, somehow anyone related with the US or UK government doesn't draw any sympathy from me. They could all just die and I wouldn't give a rat's ass.

Reply to post by coldweather

You know, not everyone in gov is bad. You're lumping the creeps in with people who are generally decent.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

excellent work, at putting this together. thanks for the great good night read.....

i dont know why, but somehow after reading that he was a gifted code breaker, this whole story somehow reminds me about Gary McKinnon, the UK hacker who broke into NASA databases.

i feel that Mr Williams wanted to give out top secret info..