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Why Did The UK Abandon Australia??
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Originally posted by ollncasino
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
When Australian PM John Curtin announced they would be returning home, Winston Churchill called US, AUSTRALIANS TRAITORS!!!
Could that be any more ironic??
Could you provide an original source for that that?
By original, I mean a reputable source rather than someone alleging Churchill stated that?
I have had a number of good Aussie mates and I have noticed that many of the allegations they have made against the British doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
You will be able to find it elsewhere as well....
RECALLING THE TROOPS
In early 1942 Curtin clashed with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill over the use of Australian troops overseas. Curtin's insistence that his troops return home to protect Australian soil was seen as a brave stand against a powerful ally. His personal anguish over the safety of the returning troops has become part of Australian folklore.
john.curtin.edu.au...
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Yes you did, but Britain was not under threat of invasion like Australia was. Australia had very little money and resources as well but we still sent you our men and supplies.
As you have stated, Australia was a sovereign nation. Why did your politicians agree to that?
If such a move was strategically wrong, surely it was Australia's leaders who were treacherous?
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
RECALLING THE TROOPS
In early 1942 Curtin clashed with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill over the use of Australian troops overseas. Curtin's insistence that his troops return home to protect Australian soil was seen as a brave stand against a powerful ally. His personal anguish over the safety of the returning troops has become part of Australian folklore.
john.curtin.edu.au...
You stated that Churchill called Australians TRAITORS.
Your link neither alleges nor provides any evidence that Churchill said anything of the sort.
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
When Australian PM John Curtin announced they would be returning home, Winston Churchill called US, AUSTRALIANS TRAITORS!!!
edit on 4-5-2012 by ollncasino because: add quote
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Originally posted by slaine1978
I don't know the history of this very well but im sure the uk
did not abandon you.
you got to remember it was a world war maybe the british forces
couldent send reinforcements because they were fighting in europe.
im sure we never abandoned you it just a case of we couldent get the reinforcments to you.
and im also sure that if austrailia was under threat now in this day and age we would be there for you
and so would most of the commonwelth.
You also have to remember the Battle of Britain ended in october in 1940, the Battle for Australia began in 1941. So Britain was not under threat at this time like Australia was, they could have sent help but they chose no to.
Australias best fighting force the AIF was fighting for Britain in North Africa at this time, when Australia was under attack the British stubbornly refused to allow them to return to defend their homeland.
When Australian PM John Curtin announced they would be returning home, Winston Churchill called US, AUSTRALIANS TRAITORS!!!
Could that be any more ironic??
I think your takeing this a bit far.
the british would have helped you if they could
it was a world war we were fighting the germans and as for north africa
maybe there were strategic reasons like sorting out germany and italy first,
once thats sorted we could concentrate more forces on the japanese.
i think your an anti british republican
Originally posted by Grifter81
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Originally posted by slaine1978
I don't know the history of this very well but im sure the uk
did not abandon you.
you got to remember it was a world war maybe the british forces
couldent send reinforcements because they were fighting in europe.
im sure we never abandoned you it just a case of we couldent get the reinforcments to you.
and im also sure that if austrailia was under threat now in this day and age we would be there for you
and so would most of the commonwelth.
You also have to remember the Battle of Britain ended in october in 1940, the Battle for Australia began in 1941. So Britain was not under threat at this time like Australia was, they could have sent help but they chose no to.
Australias best fighting force the AIF was fighting for Britain in North Africa at this time, when Australia was under attack the British stubbornly refused to allow them to return to defend their homeland.
When Australian PM John Curtin announced they would be returning home, Winston Churchill called US, AUSTRALIANS TRAITORS!!!
Could that be any more ironic??
I think your underestimating the toll the Battle of Britain took on the UK. You should read some war history. It will answer all of your questions.
Had Britain not pulled back at the time they did the whole war might have been lost. The descision was made to stay in the North Atlantic and concentrate on Germany and Northern Europe. A war on two fronts was unsustainable. This, ultimately, was Hitlers downfall. An overstretched force cannot win.
You were not abandoned. Britain was (probably still is) legally bound to defend Austrailia under the Imperial Defence Act. The descision to pull back would NOT have been taken lightly.
Yes the Battle of Britain did take its toll, but Great Britain had a moral responsibility to send help to Australia whether or not they were fighting the Germans.
Britain sent NOTHING.
Originally posted by ollncasino
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Yes you did, but Britain was not under threat of invasion like Australia was. Australia had very little money and resources as well but we still sent you our men and supplies.
As you have stated, Australia was a sovereign nation. Why did your politicians agree to that?
If such a move was strategically wrong, surely it was Australia's leaders who were treacherous?
Because like I said we Australians are VERY loyal to the Queen and the Empire.
Originally posted by ollncasino
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
RECALLING THE TROOPS
In early 1942 Curtin clashed with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill over the use of Australian troops overseas. Curtin's insistence that his troops return home to protect Australian soil was seen as a brave stand against a powerful ally. His personal anguish over the safety of the returning troops has become part of Australian folklore.
john.curtin.edu.au...
You stated that Churchill called Australians TRAITORS.
Your link neither alleges nor provides any evidence that Churchill said anything of the sort.
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
When Australian PM John Curtin announced they would be returning home, Winston Churchill called US, AUSTRALIANS TRAITORS!!!
edit on 4-5-2012 by ollncasino because: add quote
I can't find the quote but his exact words to the AIF withdrawal of NA were, "This is by no doubt the greatest act of betrayal".
In otherwords he was calling us traitors.
Originally posted by slaine1978
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Originally posted by slaine1978
I don't know the history of this very well but im sure the uk
did not abandon you.
you got to remember it was a world war maybe the british forces
couldent send reinforcements because they were fighting in europe.
im sure we never abandoned you it just a case of we couldent get the reinforcments to you.
and im also sure that if austrailia was under threat now in this day and age we would be there for you
and so would most of the commonwelth.
You also have to remember the Battle of Britain ended in october in 1940, the Battle for Australia began in 1941. So Britain was not under threat at this time like Australia was, they could have sent help but they chose no to.
Australias best fighting force the AIF was fighting for Britain in North Africa at this time, when Australia was under attack the British stubbornly refused to allow them to return to defend their homeland.
When Australian PM John Curtin announced they would be returning home, Winston Churchill called US, AUSTRALIANS TRAITORS!!!
Could that be any more ironic??
I think your takeing this a bit far.
the british would have helped you if they could
it was a world war we were fighting the germans and as for north africa
maybe there were strategic reasons like sorting out germany and italy first,
once thats sorted we could concentrate more forces on the japanese.
i think your an anti british republican
Honestly could you blame any Australian for hating the British after what you did to us?
I am here trying to tell you all of (not so great) Britains betrayal yet you all decide I'm some anti-British hooligan because I'm presenting the facts.
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Yes the Battle of Britain did take its toll, but Great Britain had a moral responsibility to send help to Australia whether or not they were fighting the Germans.
Britain sent NOTHING.
Who sent you 3 squadrons of Spitfires? The Easter Bunny?
The Australian Government made strong representations to the British Government and, the Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, agreed that three fully manned and equipped Spitfire squadrons would be sent to Australia. The two Australian squadrons, Nos 452 and 457, would return and would be accompanied by No. 54 Sqn, RAF.
The Spitfire Associaition
Originally posted by ollncasino
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Then where were YOU when we needed you??
Fighting the bloody Germans.
The Germans were no longer a threat to Britain, the Japanese were at this time now a threat to Australia.
The great Australian sacrifice in ww1 numbered more dead than Americans!!! Yet our blood sacrifice did not warrant anything, Britain felt like they didn't owe us anything..
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
I can't find the quote but his exact words to the AIF withdrawal of NA were, "This is by no doubt the greatest act of betrayal".
In otherwords he was calling us traitors.
So far, you haven't been able to produce a single link that even alleges Churchill called Australians TRAITORS, although that is what you have clearly alleged.
Please find a reputable link in which proves Churchill called Australians TRAITORS.
Originally posted by ollncasino
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
Yes the Battle of Britain did take its toll, but Great Britain had a moral responsibility to send help to Australia whether or not they were fighting the Germans.
Britain sent NOTHING.
Who sent you 3 squadrons of Spitfires? The Easter Bunny?
The Australian Government made strong representations to the British Government and, the Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, agreed that three fully manned and equipped Spitfire squadrons would be sent to Australia. The two Australian squadrons, Nos 452 and 457, would return and would be accompanied by No. 54 Sqn, RAF.
The Spitfire Associaition
Im guessing we had to pay for them too..
You do realise Australia was making its own spitfires?
Besides at the outbreak of WWII the RAN and RAAF was placed at the disposal of the UK. Then when we had the enemy on our doorstep, the British refused to allow them to return to defend Australia from the Imperial Empire.
Originally posted by ollncasino
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
I can't find the quote but his exact words to the AIF withdrawal of NA were, "This is by no doubt the greatest act of betrayal".
In otherwords he was calling us traitors.
So far, you haven't been able to produce a single link that even alleges Churchill called Australians TRAITORS, although that is what you have clearly alleged.
Please find a reputable link in which proves Churchill called Australians TRAITORS.
I gave you his quote and I'm sure if you look through either .au website or "OZatWar" website it will be in there.
Yes the Battle of Britain did take its toll, but Great Britain had a moral responsibility to send help to Australia whether or not they were fighting the Germans.
Britain sent NOTHING.
because we couldent send troops at that time but as ollncasino said
who sent you the 3 squadrons of Spitfires.
chill out and stop the anti british crap.
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
I am here trying to tell you all of (not so great) Britains betrayal yet you all decide I'm some anti-British hooligan because I'm presenting the facts.
Yet you stated that Churchill called the Australians TRAITORS, yet have been unable to prove your allegation.
You also stated that the UK send Australia nothing, yet it sent three squadrons of spitfires.
You are not presenting facts.
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
I gave you his quote and I'm sure if you look through either .au website or "OZatWar" website it will be in there.
So you are unable to prove your statement that Churchill called Australians TRAITORS.
Could you kindly refrain from restating your allegation elsewhere unless you can prove it.
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
As you can see by the title, my question is simple why did the UK abandon Australia during WW2.
The Battle for Australia began after the Fall of Singapore, however even after fortress Singapore fell and Australia pleaded for British help, NO reinforcements were sent?
This subsequently began a two year conflict (1941-42) in which Australia was under threat of invasion. During this time Australia was an independent dominion, but even after Australia had sent hundreds of thousands of young men to fight and die in the first world war as well as participating in Britains colonial wars, they could not return the favour??
Australians are a very loyal people but were completely betrayed. Whats your say on this?
EDIT:
What? Why won't any of the British respond to my question?edit on 4-5-2012 by CrimsonKapital because: new entry
I think the only answer is, that's the way the English are. They went out to colonise the world, but when things got a bit too hard, they bugged out quicker than you could blink. Look at the nuke arms race between India & Pakistan, if the poms had of stuck around a few more months to fix the mess they made, there probably wouldn't be any nukes in either country. Look at Gallipoli, sure it gave us Aussies (& Kiwi’s) our greatest source of pride (the ANZACS), but, if England had of got it right, we (& our Kiwi & Canadian brothers) would not have been slaughtered. They celebrate people like Winston & Monty, but they were tactical morons who only served the queen with no consideration to the soldiers beneath them, they never did & never will respect their 'children'. I despise England for it's arrogance & ignorance.
Our sacrifice to the 'English Cause' goes back to the Boer War, we have done whatever that monarchy demands, & yet as you say, they have never done a thing to help us, they even nuked us !!! Even in the Falklands, Australia gave the UK an aircraft carrier we had only just paid for, & never received. We are small, we cant afford it !!
Even today we are suffering due to their arrogance. Stolen Children etc etc, these were not decisions made by Australians, they were made by our English Governors, but when the heat came, they passed the blame onto us. Sorry but no, yet again this is a problem created by England & yet again they pass the blame. There are so many reasons that I will never set foot on English soil, though I will one day be proud to join my ancestors to see the Tattoo in Scotland, even if I have to row across the channel to avoid English soil.
I wish Scotland the wisdom needed to leave the UK in the upcoming vote, I hope Ireland, Wales & the other islands wisen up that much too. We had a vote down here years ago on leaving the Commonwealth. Due to the injustices of the English monarchy (though technically the crown belongs to either a Scott or an Aussie, no joke, Lizzy stole it) I was desperate to vote Yes, however the monarchists got their way & the question was worded that even I, a queen hater (to me, Australia's Queen is Molly Meldrum & no other) I had to vote no. Basically the question was, 'Do you want things to stay as they are, or do you give approval for politicians to chose who leads the country ?'. To me & every other 'republican', it was agony but we had little choice but to keep things as they are, ie we have some say in our leader (though gillard changed that rule).
England always has & always will screw those they see as subservient to them, the old 'Holier than thou' bit. Show me one colony of theirs that doesn't have a problem due to their incompetence & arrogance. The latest to fall, Fiji, but I wont be surprised if there's been more since, I've given up following it.
The only people who helped us when the Japanese attacked was the USA. Most Americans don't realise the history their military has down here. Sure, they needed our land & bases to conduct the Pacific war, but at least they stuck their heads up when we needed them, & I've dived many times on just one ship they lost doing so (USS Peary). I don't agree with all the US wars, but I am sure glad they are our friend, because our "parents", ie England, don't give a F# about us. There are schools in France who sing the Australian national anthem at the start of every day as a way to remember what we did for their country, & yet England, well what can I say.
PS. My comments are not made to English Vets, I enjoyed working with you, it is your past governments & your monarchy I have an issue with. I have full respect for your soldiers.
PPS. Yes we are VERY loyal down here, that's probably why we are letting the US set up base down here & not England, we remember.
Originally posted by ollncasino
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
I am here trying to tell you all of (not so great) Britains betrayal yet you all decide I'm some anti-British hooligan because I'm presenting the facts.
Yet you stated that Churchill called the Australians TRAITORS, yet have been unable to prove your allegation.
You also stated that the UK send Australia nothing, yet it sent three squadrons of spitfires.
You are not presenting facts.
Yes & who piloted those squadrons, & many of the squadrons in the Battle Of Britain, Australians, Kiwis, Candians etc etc. Per capita, we lost FAR more defending your shores than you ever even committed to our defence.
I appreciate your pride in you country, but look at the real numbers, if you are allowed to see them.
edit on 4/5/2012 by SNAFU38 because:
Spelling
Originally posted by ollncasino
Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
I gave you his quote and I'm sure if you look through either .au website or "OZatWar" website it will be in there.
So you are unable to prove your statement that Churchill called Australians TRAITORS.
Could you kindly refrain from restating your allegation elsewhere unless you can prove it.
Okay I still cannot find it, but this is the circumstances -
Britain elected to give first priority to the defence of India, regarded by the British from the time of Queen Victoria as "The Jewel in the Crown". No British troops were going to be provided for the defence of Australia against a Japanese invasion in 1942. In fact, the British Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, tried to prevent the return of Australian AIF soldiers from the Middle East and North Africa to defend their own country as Japanese invasion became ever more threatening. If Australia's great wartime Prime Minister, the Honourable John Curtin, had not defied Churchill, and demanded the return of two Australian divisions, there is a very real possibility that Japan would have invaded the Australian mainland in 1942.
www.battleforaustralia.org...
Now Winston Churchill actually made an historical quote about the AIFs withdrawal to Australia. His quote was "Without a doubt the greatest act of betrayal".
He made that quote in direct relation to our withdrawal. Believe me or not, I don't care because I know about this conflict a lot more than you do.
I also think its interesting that Britain took priority over India to Australia. India was of course apart of the domion so it makes sense for them to.
But Australia had made so many sacrifices for Britain, why weren't we seen as "worth defending"?
Nevertheless, the 3 squadrons was new to me and I didn't know about that.
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