Alan Shepard Is So Much A Big Fake, Reading His Story Makes Patriotic Americans Crave Antiemetics

reply to post by choos


You don't "pass tests" to prove you do not have Meniere's anymore. That would not make sense even today. Again, testing of various sorts has some relevance, but diagnosing Meniere's, or assessing response to treatment, is not like making a tissue diagnosis by way of biopsying a tumor, or following a tumor's regression by CAT scanning during the course and after radiation of said tumor.

Regardless of testing, Shepard would always have been at risk to develop disease in the previously healthy ear, hence my pointing out how ludicrous it was to clear him for Apollo 13 or 14 in the spring of 1969. Complete jive.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


Admittedly it was uncalled for.

reply to post by DJW001


Well you would not understand that aspect of the story as you are not privy to the relevant subtext there. Regardless, your views on Shepard's illness ? Do you believe he was cured of Meniere's Disease and so OK to go to the moon. ?

Originally posted by decisively
reply to post by Koffee

 

Good you investigated that on your own, the part as regards the risk of disease developing in the previously unaffected ear. So even with the lowest figure, say a 17% risk of disease developing in the other ear, would you send Shepard to the moon ?

Of course not....

If after the operation he wasn't displaying the symptoms and continued to be symptom free up till the launch date, I don't see any reason why not send him to the moon, he's trained for it after all and in this case went to have an experimental surgery to try stay with the program. And if say something did happen in between the the aftermath of the surgery and mission, well that's what backups are for.

reply to post by N3k9Ni



N3k9Ni,

This is from the book MOONSHOT by Shepard, Slayton and coauthor Barbree;

"That wasn’t quite enough. But when the NASA flight surgeons ran Alan through tests bordering on the edge of brutal, they grinned at Shepard. “Dr. House is correct. You are cured. It’s amazing. Full recovery.” Alan was elated, but still it was not enough. “Which means?” he asked. They knew his hesitation. “It means,” they told him, “you are fully qualified for space flight.” The spring in Alan’s step wasn’t just elastic. He almost went ballistic with untrammeled joy. Suddenly the moon began coming closer. Alan went after the prize assignment like a hungry wolverine. He burst into Slayton’s office. “Deke, dammit!” he burst out, no pretense at protocol. “We’ve got to get me a flight to the moon!” "


Lots of other references you'll find the term "cured" used explicitly, though I do not believe that important one way or the other. The point is they sent the guy to the moon, NOT.

No way a competent physician would do that. It is jive. All of it. Ask any doc that works in this area about Meniere's. Again the seizure disorder analogy is quite good and most relevant.

reply to post by ProRipp


The name calling is utterly uncalled for . I apologize.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Well you are free to read up on Meniere's. I gave an outline as above. What would you like in terms of specifics? This is a rather easy slam dunk proof of Apollo Fraudulence actually. Not much one could do to defend it now. Actually, awfully foolish to try it. Demonstrates how arrogant the fraud perpetrators were. Ditto for the Borman illness.

I suspect the same is true of Slayton and his "recovery" from his arrythmia problem, though I have not read on that in any detail.

Presumably, these bogus illnesses are what places Slayton and Shepard in these key posts.

reply to post by Koffee


First of all Koffee, the surgery is not/was not "experimental". It was mainstream more or less at that time. That said, it was not often done as it was reserved for refractory cases.

Try this, say it was a seizure disorder that Shepard had. Those symptoms/signs may be a bit easier for you to understand in terms of the fallout were there a problem in space. If Shepard has a seizure on the way down, it is all over, or might be. Mitchell may not be able to react in time and appropriately.

Would you send Shepard if he had a seizure disorder and had been seizure free for 3 years? Most physicians with competence as regards to answering such questions based on experience/familiarity(of course not familiarity with moon landings per se, and as such, all the more reason to be very cautious) would say NO, and it would be an UNQUALIFIED AND ABSOLUTE NO. This would not even be a consideration in ANY SENSE.

As such, we know Apollo with unmitigated certainty to be fraudulent.

Ask your friends who are docs, explore it with them. Should be fun for you.

Originally posted by decisively
reply to post by Koffee

 

First of all Koffee, the surgery is not/was not "experimental". It was mainstream more or less at that time. That said, it was not often done as it was reserved for refractory cases.

Try this, say it was a seizure disorder that Shepard had. Those symptoms/signs may be a bit easier for you to understand in terms of the fallout were there a problem in space. If Shepard has a seizure on the way down, it is all over, or might be. Mitchell may not be able to react in time and appropriately.

Would you send Shepard if he had a seizure disorder and had been seizure free for 3 years? Most physicians with competence as regards to answering such questions based on experience/familiarity(of course not familiarity with moon landings per se, and as such, all the more reason to be very cautious) would say NO, and it would be an UNQUALIFIED AND ABSOLUTE NO. This would not even be a consideration in ANY SENSE.

As such, we know Apollo with unmitigated certainty to be fraudulent.

Ask your friends who are docs, explore it with them. Should be fun for you.

edit on 3-5-2012 by decisively because: comma

Its not a seizure condition. Two you have yet to shown that after surgery during this time period that Shepard was unfit for service. Three nothing you stated change what I said before.

reply to post by Koffee


Well , I was trying to help you get a feeling for the nature of the problem, the predicament a landing would pose to a man with said disease. If Shepard had experienced a bout of vertigo due to Meniere's Disease, he could NOT NOT NOT fly/pilot the LM PERIOD. If this had happened, both he and Mitchell could easily have died. In many cases individuals with Meniere's Diesease are not allowed to operate a commercial vehicles let alone fly airplanes. There are exceptions. That aside, the seizure analogy was to perhaps help you understand the consequences of the problem in the context of the alleged circumstances.

Try this, Shepard was grounded to begin with because Meniere's symptoms in space were viewed as unacceptable. As such, his surgery would then have to have been viewed by Berry and the other NASA docs be as a guarantee that Shepard would no longer have symptoms of vertigo. There is no no no room for error here, zero zero zero tolerance.

Is this reasonable, to view Shepard as a man guaranteed to be symptom free on the basis of this surgery ?

No, of course not. Such a view is beyond ridiculous, it would have been quite literally unacceptably dangerous were any of this true.

Originally posted by decisively
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Well you are free to read up on Meniere's. I gave an outline as above. What would you like in terms of specifics? This is a rather easy slam dunk proof of Apollo Fraudulence actually. Not much one could do to defend it now. Actually, awfully foolish to try it. Demonstrates how arrogant the fraud perpetrators were. Ditto for the Borman illness.

I suspect the same is true of Slayton and his "recovery" from his arrythmia problem, though I have not read on that in any detail.

Presumably, these bogus illnesses are what places Slayton and Shepard in these key posts.

Why would you start a thread, making accusations and then ask OTHER people in the thread to verify YOUR claims?

You should know by now that claims made on ATS boards are scrutinized and its up to YOU to provide proof that your statements are anything other then nonsense and/or unfounded.....

Not saying they ARE, however many do find it less then acceptable to make these statements w out anything to back them up , other then to tell them "Do it on your own"

The burden of proof my friend is on you

reply to post by Koffee


I am not sure what you are arguing. To begin with NASA, not me said a man with Meniere's is unfit to fly, though indeed, I would agree.

Not having symptoms does not undo the disease, does not mean the problem is fixed. This is why a man like Shepard is grounded to begin with, because symptoms can occur at any time. As such, I presume you are arguing that after Shepard's surgery he would not be viewed by competent members of the medical community as any longer being at risk. This is simply not true and was the reason I reference the 1968 Meniere's symposium as above. William House contributed. Read it. House's surgery to help Shepard would not have been viewed by a single member of the symposium's contributors, including William house himself, to have made him well enough, improved enough, that another episode of vertigo would be guaranteed to not occur. This would have been true over one years time three, or ten.

Take a look for yourself, the 1968 Meniere's Symposium from Otolaryngology Clinics of North America and also published by Saunders.

It will be a sobering read for you to say the least. You may acquire it from on line used book services. If forum members are interested enough, I might find the time to post some selct pages from some of the symposium's authors and link them.

Fasten your seat belts.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


My claims hardly need verification by you. Meniere's Disease is not curable. You a doc ? Care to debate me on the subject ?

End of story; game/set/match. Apollo is fraudulent and I need no one to help me with my reasoning or references. I work in this medical field on a daily basis thank you very much.

Any and all physicians are welcome to debate me here on the subject, as are you......that said, the point has been proven. It is a matter of simple medical FACT.

Next bogus post please....

Originally posted by decisively
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

My claims hardly need verification by you. Meniere's Disease is not curable. You a doc ? Care to debate me on the subject ?

End of story; game/set/match. Apollo is fraudulent and I need no one to help me with my reasoning or references. I work in this medical field on a daily basis thank you very much.

Any and all physicians are welcome to debate me here on the subject, as are you......that said, the point has been proven. It is a matter of simple medical FACT.

Next bogus post please....

edit on 3-5-2012 by decisively because: added "by you"

edit on 3-5-2012 by decisively because: removed "here"

Its not verification by me its verification by anyone that YOUVE invited onto this thread by making it.....

Are YOU a doctor? Where are your sources that Apollo was a fraud?

Where are your sources of proof to affirm anything you have stated?

There is no game set match because nothing has begun, because you have NOTHING to back up your claim other then conjecture and "I work in the medical field" That could be anything from cna , to brain surgeon, to equipment sales, to ER cleanup........that statement doesnt mean jack

Do you have ANY idea how many people make claims to be , doctors, lawyers, astronauts, and ALIENS on this board?

Sorry, when trying to PROVE something (and im not sure you are familiar with processes in debate) you must provide things of substance other then your "claims"

Youve proven NOTHING in your whole OP as fact,youve yet to site any sources of the sort

However Now that you have STATED that you are EXTREMELY qualified and knowledgeable in the medical field to asses this case, you mustprovide proof that you are......what are your qualifications?

Note that if this turns out to be false, youve effectively shot yourself in the foot

I'm loving how the OP apparently spent more time fixing grammatical errors than s/he did actually writing the piece.

Thanks for the giggles.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask



This is from the Mayo Clinic website on Meniere's disease. I trust you consider the boys at the Mayop reasonably competent.

www.mayoclinic.com...=treatments-and-drugs
(It appears the Mayo link will not allow one to link directly to the TREATMENT section. Please advance to that section where you will find the opening statement about the disease's incurability.)

Note they open their discussion of treatment with a clear statement that the disease is not curable. Most appropriate given the nature of the disease and its impact on life stye. Would not want anyone to get some hair brained idea and think they could fly off to the moon now would we ?

Keep in mind, Meniere's then(1960s) as now, was likewise viewed as not "curable".

Hopefully that has helped you with that much, that Alan Shepard was alleged to have an incurable disease and low and behold, as though Jesus stepped into his life, he was cured.

If you find my reference wanting, well I cannot help you . If you don't believe the boys at the Mayo, I would suggest you do your own research, prove them wrong and turn the medical world up on its ear.

A cure for Meniere's would indeed be sensational. Something to dream about, just like a manned moon landing.

reply to post by decisively


From your link......

Surgery If vertigo attacks associated with Meniere's disease are severe and debilitating and other treatments don't help, surgery may be an option. Procedures may include: Endolymphatic sac procedures.

The endolymphatic sac plays a role in regulating inner ear fluid levels. These surgical procedures may alleviate vertigo by decreasing fluid production or increasing fluid absorption. In endolymphatic sac decompression, a small portion of bone is removed from over the endolymphatic sac. In some cases, this procedure is coupled with the placement of a shunt, a tube that drains excess fluid from your inner ear.

This is the procedure he had done..........

Source

Alan Shepard, astronaut. U.S. astronaut Alan Shepard had Meniere's Disease, but recovered well enough after endolymphatic sac shunt surgery to fly into space.

Therefore draining the fluid that causes the situation to occur............negating the SYMPTOMS of the disease.......

Not curing it.......

You should know the difference as a medical professional........


Now that that issue is solved, we can go back to the fact that this is your vendetta trying to prove that the Apollo mission was a Hoax.............

And your paper thin theory that you have put forth as proof........is now full of holes........

I guess we can move on to some other undeniable proof it was hoaxed

Originally posted by decisively


"That wasn’t quite enough. But when the NASA flight surgeons ran Alan through tests bordering on the edge of brutal, they grinned at Shepard. “Dr. House is correct. You are cured. It’s amazing. Full recovery.”

Sorry, but that is not what I asked for.

Originally posted by N3k9Ni

By evidence, of course, I mean written documents by Dr. House and/or recorded audio of Dr. House with or without video.

This only indicates that the flight surgeons, not Dr. House, proclaimed Sheppard cured.

reply to post by N3k9Ni



Got ya',

William House wrote a book about his experiences as a doc,The Struggles of a Medical Innovator: Cochlear Implants and Other Ear Surgeries: A Memoir by William F. House, D.D.S., M.D. , and there is a nice/brief section in there about Shepard. I have the book and can let you know if he used the word "cured" or not. By the way, it was in reading that book by House that I learned Shepard/NASA invited the great doc to see the Apollo 14 launch.

Don't know if you are a medical person or not, but fyi, it would have been incumbent upon Berry and his colleagues to read the symposium material previously referenced in such a situation. In other words, making a determination as regards whether House "cured" Shepard or not, has almost nothing to do with "tests" the flight surgeons would run. They would go to the literature and study the problem and of course listen carefully to what House had to say about his own work. As a matter of fact, that comment in the Shepard/Slayton book about the "tests" they ran to prove Shepard well is beyond ridiculous, though we'll give it a pass for now.

I have House's book. I should be able to get back to you tomorrow with the details and a quote from the great doc.

I don't know this for a fact, but I assume House told Berry all went well and he was confident in a good result. In my mind, whether he said he was "cured" or not does not materially matter all that much with regard to the main points I have been trying to make. On the other hand, if he did use the word "cured" now THAT would be interesting on other grounds. But rather than go off on a tangent now, let me take a look at the book and will let you know what the details were, at least as related in that book, The Struggles of a Medical Innovator: Cochlear Implants and Other Ear Surgeries: A Memoir by William F. House, D.D.S., M.D.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Yes I am a doc.