America. A country led by cowards.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


It is cowardice because the "leadership" doesn't want to make a stand along side this one man on the issues of forced sterilization and forced abortions.

They'd rather deal with Fast & Furious or Martin/.Zimmerman.

Because it benefits them.

Chen doesn't.

Hence the coward label, which they have earned.

reply to post by beezzer


Again, they'd have to want to help for it to be cowardice.

They don't care.

Thy don't care because, relative to the big picture, reality, this is nothing.

And like I said, you too will forget about this in a few weeks.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
If you don't have values, principles then it is easy to dismiss Chen's plight.

It's easy to disguise cowardice for political reasons.

In the end, America turned its back on someone crying for help.

I am ashamed.

I am also tired. Its 2345 here. Will pick up on your personal insults and justifications tomorrow.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by beezzer

 

Heck I do agree with you but what would you rather

1) The US saves that one man (and maybe his family) and cause a big rift between China and the US which results in many billions of trade agreements down the swannie thus causing more tent cities in the US, more people losing their jobs, homes and their lives.

or

2) The US gives up a man and so the Chinese/US relations continue to help growth in the US economy thus helping people to pay their mortgage, send their kids to school and put something away for the future?

Yes I know it stinks but that is what they (The embassy and your Government) will be thinking.
It isn't a perfect world and unfortunatly hard choices have to be made.

The same can/should be said for both the Chinese & the US then, meaning that one man or one family should not be the end of it all. If the ground we are on is that shaky it's not worth it anyway.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by captainnotsoobvious

 

If you don't have values, principles then it is easy to dismiss Chen's plight.

It's easy to disguise cowardice for political reasons.

In the end, America turned its back on someone crying for help.

I am ashamed.

I am also tired. Its 2345 here. Will pick up on your personal insults and justifications tomorrow.

Lol.

Again, you're either pretending or you're truly oblivious to reality.

The country of the US doesn't care, because this is so insignificant as to be non-existent.

And like I said, if you're so concerned, volunteer in a soup kitchen or any other charity. Help your neighbours, etc.

Calling all the leaders in a country, any country, cowards, because they don't care about something, is not only factually inaccurate, but quite ridiculous.

abclocal.go.com.../national_world&id=8648666

Well looks like he's coming to America. Everyone can find some new political horse to beat on.

Originally posted by antonia
abclocal.go.com.../national_world&id=8648666

Well looks like he's coming to America. Everyone can find some new political horse to beat on.

Back to, Obama is an illegal immigrant, Communist, closeted Muslim Black Panther?

Maybe that will work this time...

Yay! Principle triumphs!

*applause*

reply to post by Jameela

There is no doubt that U.S. Policy in any matter always takes U.S. interests into account FIRST. This is the same with every other country on the face of the Earth.

Even with this as a governing FACT....the U.S. Government as well as U.S. Aid Groups and even singular Citizens of the United States...contribute far more aid in many things such as Money, Food, Protection, New Tech. that fuels the entire World Economy.

The U.S. is home to more Nobel Prize Winners than any other Nation. The U.S. is also the Bread Basket of the World...donate massive amounts of Food Aid and without the ability of American Farmers to grow immense amounts of Wheat, Corn, Soy Beans, Rye...etc...there would be many people more numbered in the MILLIONS...who would be starving to death without this Food Aid.

More than any other Military...by a degree that is incalculable...the U.S. Military...being a Global Force...has not only protected International Shipping Lanes but also has performed Humanitarian acts such as responding to the needs of Japan after the Earthquake and Tsunami...faster and reaching areas that Japans own forces and civilian agencies could not. This has been done many times over the years such as after the Giant Tsunami in Indonesia and the greater area.

When it comes down to it...a person can vilify the United States as much as they want...but the facts show this to be unwarranted. No other Country has stepped up to the plate to come anywhere near the level of Humanitarian Actions and Programs that the people of the United States have accomplished and continue to do.

I sometimes work in the Third World and have seen how other countries deal excusivly with other Countries Warloards and as long as there is profit in it for them...they turn a blind eye. I know that the U.S. has done this as well but at the very least when our Voting Population finds out...Heads Roll. But in other countries even so called ENLIGHTENED EUROPEAN ones...Nuclear Reactors are built for countries that have no business of being trusted to follow NPT agreements. Case in point...Russia selling IRAN Nuclear Tech. Iran signed the NPT and has broken just about every part of the Treaty. EVERYONE KNEW ahead of time that selling Nuclear Tech. to Iran was a bad idea...the U.S. tried to stop it....look where we are now.

So before a person vilifies the U.S...TAKE A HARD LOOK AT YOUR OWN COUNTRY OR OTHERS. The MAIN reason for the start of WWII and the rise of the NAZI PARTY was European demands of rediculously unreachable in payment and scope...WAR REPARATIONS demanded and impossed on a defeated WWI Germany. The U.S. practicly SCREAMED to the European Nations...people in Germany are STARVING...they have no jobs or food and their country is in shambles...demanding this level of payment is something they cannot afford and if you continue to keep they starving...SOMEONE OR GROUP will rise and reestablish an EXTREME FORM OF NATIONALISM!

European Leaders scoffed at the U.S. warnings and very shortly after...Hitler and the Nazi's. In the Soviet Union...Stalin killed Millions of his own people in forced relocation. In South East Asia...Japan killed Millions of Chinese and other people of that region. In Africa...to this day...Tribal Warlords kill Millions as they buy weapons from Russia or China or Middle Eastern Countries and steal USAID Food Supplies. In South America and in Brazil and Argentina....CHILDREN who are homeless are rounded up by the Military and shot and killed and burried in Mass Graves...just to keep them from being a nuisance to Rich Ocean Land or Business owners. And if you are a WOMAN who is unfortunate enough to be RAPED in many Middle Eastern Nations...that Woman is burried in the ground up to her chest and then is STONED TO DEATH because even though raped...she is breaking their Religious Law as they state she is having with another besides her Husband or sex out of Wedlock and in addition...to restore her Husbands and families Honor...it is traditional for the Husband or Father to cast the first stone in a long SLOW DEATH.

So tell me more about how evil the U.S. is....WHAT A JOKE! The only thing that keeps this entire World from going to WWIII is the UNITED STATES and her MILITARY. The rest of the World is comprised of alot of people who are less than ANIMALS and who would Kill any of you in a second just for not having a beard or not wearing a burka or veil.

I have been around the World...for those of you that post this drivel...isn't it nice that you have the ability to do so? While you sit safely in your Home and make statements about things you know nothing about...as is your right...unlike China where if you are able to get though the Chinese Governments Internet Filters and post something they consider subversive...you disapear. Split Infinity

reply to post by beezzer

What of America's principles? What about freedom and democracy? Aren't we supposed to represent that?

Im sorry bud. The US is like the rest of the countries in the world.. It looks after its self interests only. The only difference is the US has a bigger stick than the other countries... Look at Iraq and Afganistan.. You cannot bomb people into freedom.

reply to post by purplemer


America used to be so much more than "just another country".

I thought we were better than this. The lies, half-truths, obfuscations that drift down to us like so much government dandruff.

We currently are "just another country" but we have the capacity to be so much more.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

WHAT A JOKE! The only thing that keeps this entire World from going to WWIII is the UNITED STATES and her MILITARY.

America is composed of people just like other countries in the world. Do not have such disraspct for your fellow man by calling them animals just because they live in a different country. Im sure the native Americans would have called you animals when you where committing genocide on there people. The truth of it is people are people the world over. You get good and bad where ever you go.

How many countries does the have to US invaded before you understand there is a world war occurring. Do not for one minute think it has anything to do with freedom and protecting countries. Do some homework.Think the US is the land of the free... You have been duped. It is a business go and check and see who set it up

The US military..? Its a private army for hire.. Go and check. In the year 2000 countries without a a Rothchild central bank.. Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Cuba. LIbya and Afghanistan. Countries left needing the central bank now are.. North Korea, Iran and Cuba.

The US fights for the banking elite. Not for freedom. SO why are you defending it. You are defending the same banking elite that has taken the US to its knees for generations to come. The same elite that plans on taking the you nationality away oneday so it can create a one world government.

reply to post by beezzer

America used to be so much more than "just another country".
...
We currently are "just another country" but we have the capacity to be so much more.

Soz again bud its always been just another country. From the spilling of so much blood to create its foundations to the present day affairs. It is no different. I really wish it was and that it stood behind the principles which it apparently addears to

Looking on things at a national level. Creates divides and differences between people. Our earth has no boundaries. I think the world has the capacity to be so much more.

reply to post by purplemer
If you look at the bigger picture, then yes, humanity has the potential to be so much more than we are.

Pity we can't all evolve at the same pace.

reply to post by beezzer

I am a staunch protecter of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. It SICKENS me when I see any attempt to introduce laws that should never have been allowed to pass that I feel are a direct violation of our Rights.

At the same time...there are ways to pass laws that allow us to protect ourselves from asymetrical warfare. One of the laws that I feel is wrong...could be rightened if rewritten. The Case of the Killing of an U.S. Citizen who turned terrorist overseas. Now...this SOB that we killed needed Killing and got what he deserved but he was a U.S. Citizen.

We could have simply made a law that stated that any U.S. Citizen that openly proffesed to being a Terrorist as was the case here...as he called on fellow Muslims to help him kill Americans...should have their citizenship REVOKED...as they are admitting to their crime and admitting to being a Traitor.

If this law was passed then the Killing of a Non-U.S. Citizen Terrorist would be a Non-Issue. If the accused wishes to fight the removal of their Citizenship...then they should be allowed to do so in a U.S. Court of Law by surrendering themselves. If they are truly innocent then they should have nothing to fear.

The stupidity of the current law is that they did not add this simple fix into it and thus we have Terrorist Citizens being killed without trial. If they admit their Guilt as they always do on a web site or other media...then REVOKE their Citizenship.

I have seen and been to places where the Hatred toward Americans is off the chart and the only thing that kept myself and my team alive is we are feared. The average Terrorist may put up a Facade of Bravery and tell others they do not fear Death...but that is a lie. Most suicide bombers are poor SOB's who go through with it because these Terrorist Groups have their family hostage. When they meet those who they proclaim to be able to Kill and have our Blood knee deep....they come to the realization that all they have done in the past is talk and kill helpless innocents...they QUICKLY turn to cowards when true volunteer Pro's skilled in the Art of War are at their door step.

The Biggest of the Cowards is in the Leadership as they have no problem convincing a young kid to grab an AK or a bomb and attack a Girls school...but the Leadership will NEVER sacrifice their lives and have no issue allowing the deaths of as many of their followers as is necessary for their own safety or ability to flee.

My Childhood Friends Son...was KIA in Afghanistan trying to protect a Village in a manner not suited for his Military Skill...he was a Sniper and the nicest Kid you would ever meet. He did several tours and cared for the Villagers he came to know. He said...these poor people have little choice but to do what the Taliban want if we are not there. He died because of a bad policy of placing U.S. Troops into Afghan Villages...a Sniper should be never seen.

It is easy to disparage what we are doing over there...but if anyone here went there...and they saw a Female Child being Beheaded for posssing a School Book or an Old Man having his hands chopped off for recieving some food from U.S. Troops...what would YOU DO!? Would you just walk away and say it is none of my business? Would you turn your head? How would you act if it happened in your country or in the U.S.? Here we could call the Police...they have no Police except in the Capitol. What if it was happening to your child or your Father or You?

The only COWARDS are those who turn their heads....and worse...try to tell others to do the same.
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Well said.

Personally, I think that if we adhered to the values that were instilled in the creation of our country, we wouldn't need 80% of the laws we have now.

reply to post by beezzer

The Beauty of the U.S. Constitution is it's ability to adapt to changing times such as amendments that were introduced to allow Women to Vote and elliminate Slavery. The problems that arrise happen when an administration appoints certain Judges to the Supreme Court that have an agenda and laws that are challenged are either not heard or allowed to continue when they are obviously not Constitutional.

The Constitution itself as well as the Bill of Rights and certain parts of the Constitution such as written...When a Government no longer serves the people in the manner that the Constitution lines out as the way the U.S. Government must follow...and if any government or administration obtains or creates powers that contradict the Rights of the People...It is a U.S. Citizens...DUTY...to remove that Government or Administration by any and all means and using the Constitutional Methods outlined...regain a Government that follows the Constitution and serves the people.

The Military swears Allegence to the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES...even if the President is commander in chief. One thing I know without doubt. The Military of the U.S. would NEVER ALLOW ANY ADMINISTRATION...to change our Constitutional Rights.

I have been many places and different countries and this conversation has taken place between myself and people of other countries with the debate moving toward their questioning if the U.S. Military could someday take over and install a U.S. Dictator. I assured them this could not happen since the people who make up the Soldiers and Sailors and USAF and National Guard are comprised of our Moms and Dads...Sons and Daughters.
They would defend the people at all costs. Split Infinity

Originally posted by beezzer
What of America's principles? What about freedom and democracy? Aren't we supposed to represent that?

America is a Republic.... not a Democracy

and why does it suprise you that American officials turned a bling eye to this man? They are doing it to their own citizens...

reply to post by purplemer

First of all...Human Beings are Animals just like any other Non-Plant lifeform existing on the planet. A Single Celled Organism is also an animal. The only difference is we have a large brain and apossable thumbs as do Great Apes who Evolved from a common ancestor that Humans also shared.

As far as respecting other people...you are preaching to the Choir as it is part of my sometimes Job to solve problems with groups of people from different Cultures and Countries. I have seen First Hand what evils men do and without the U.S. and the U.S. Military...despite all their flaws...it would be a FAR more dangerous world without them.

It is easy to vilify the U.S. until you go to many other places around the World and experience what is actually going on. I am not trying to make a statement that the U.S. is the solver of all issues or that the U.S. has not made gross mistakes...it has. But I can tell that you do not have enough experience to either understand or know about how other Countries treat their populous in manners that we would never allow or stomach.

It is in this lack of experience that you and people like you are able to so easily proclaim the U.S. and it's Military to be some agent of evil. If you had seen and experienced just a bit of some of the things I have witnessed...you would not judge the U.S. in this manner reguardless of our faults.

The Orient especially South East Asia has a system that is a combination of Failed Communism, a Growing Capitalistic State, Ancient Imperial GOD/LEADER worship, as well as the newer Leaderships consideration of an individuals life as their property. In India...an Ancient Caste System discriminates against the so called UNTOUCHABLES...those who's families have been forced to continue work in grave Digging or Cremation by Funeral Pyres, Sewage, and other jobs that others consider too DIRTY for any in that family to have the right to go to a local school or attend community celebrations. In Africa and parts of the Middle East...Female Circumcisions...the cutting off of a young girls Clitoris with a pair of Wire Cutters without consent and without anesthesia, the Stoning to Death of Raped Women in the Middle East to restore a Families Honor, in Afghanistan and other Extremist Muslim Nations...the kidnapping of a persons family and the threat of their execution in order to force anyone to become a Suicide Bomber as if they do not do this...their family is killed. In Russia...Putin and former KGB members fixing of voting stations to garnish votes for Putin supporters as well as Empty Threats by Putin against the U.S. stating that Russia will re-arm to defend against American Imperialism while Billions are siphoned off Russian Military Programs and placed in Putin and his EX-KGB Cronnies Pockets as Russia has neither a reason nor the ability to confront the United States Military in any aspect of Global Affairs. Hugo Chavez a South Amercan Country...Venezuela's Dictator who steals Billions of Dollars of Oil Money from his country while killing disadents outright. Brazil and Argentina...who have their Military round up Street Children with no home and shoot an kill them and burry them in mass graves just to keep local business owners and Sea Shore Rich home owners happy. The dire list goes on and on.

You should spend time living in some of these places and after finding that you have no food or clean water and you have no rights or ability to vote or increase your wealth or gain a higher standard of living...and along comes a USAID shipment of Food and basic necessities that you desperately need and you recieve this but after the USAID group leaves...your new countries goverment forces come and at gun point steal it from you and tell you you can have it back if you pay them a large some of money....then tell me how evil the U.S. is and how your new country is a victim to U.S. Imperialism.

Why do you think that all over the world...the number one place that Families wish to immigrate to is the United States? Split Infinity

reply to post by beezzer


I agree 1000%, my backbone got stiffend when i found out about 911 and wtc7 - lets not forget the out come of that.... FOIA for the Models your tax dollars paid for - to be indendantly researched - was met with a particial release of computer files minus the file to put the model together and run them. -to add insult to injury the Director made a finding of some sort that prevented the release of these WTC 7 models which I believe were Dry Labbed to prove something that was so Bad B Movie from hollywood you would have to be asleep to believe it - he stated "The Release of theses models would jeopardize public safety --- for the whole story -- ATS "Do NIST models meet internationals building codes"

anyway, I have watched this twice now.... 40 minutes, and I got absolutely nothing out of this and it means something to someone -- I'm sure, Panetta and Gen. Dempsey -- hold press conference, its says a lot of stuff - "where is the beef" ? been watching these two ever since they overlooked and what sounded like treason against America's Soverignty about month ago.

www.c-span.org...

I think congress is showing a little backbone - otherwise, why the double speak news conference ?