America. A country led by cowards.

Is anyone aware of the chinese activist who sought asylum at the US embassy in China?

Well, um, asylum not so much.

The Chinese activist at the center of an international dispute between Beijing and Washington now claims Chinese officials threatened to kill his wife if he did not leave the American Embassy where he had sought sanctuary.

The claim directly challenges the narrative that has been coming from American officials, who have described Chen Guangcheng's decision as his own -- and tried to move on from the incident ahead of key talks between U.S. and Chinese officials.

So America says it was his own decision.

Yet Chen says it's because he WAS TOLD by US officials that the chinese were going to kill his wife.

He added that, at one point, the U.S. officials told him his wife would be beaten to death.

So is Chen llying?
Is America lying?

A blind guy climbs over a fracking wall, travels through town, injured, and seeks help at the US embassy. And what does America do?

Blinks.



ETA; source

But you know that if this were to happen somewhere else, and the U.S. wasn’t involved, you’d have our government calling it “Barbaric”. The Secretary of State would be all over this.

Oh the humanity.

reply to post by Juston
We have "asylum" cities for illegal immigrants.

Yet an authentic activist seeks our help and what do we do?

Whiz all over ourselves.

This is an epic, epic failure on the part of America. It shows its true colours, yellow.

This isn't "drone" diplomacy. This is real stand up for one man, one ideal diplomacy.

Yeah we are

For over 30 years i was told "communism is evil" oh when they offer a slave class so that you can buy and ipod pay no nevermind to that.

Oh and force their women to abortions and jail anyone who speaks out again their policies.

Turn a blind eye so you can make money off it!!!

Cowardice indeed.

Not surprising surely.

Its not as if countries normally sacrifice their wider interests in defence of individuals. As soon as he arrived he was a problem to be solved. From the american perspective he's now solved.

Money trumps all other considerations. Its always been this way in the USA (and other nations too). Actions only ever match rhetoric when public outrage forces it.

Feel free to believe in your country. Just don't expect that it believes in you.

Wow that blind guy sounds like he is Zatoichi.

Back to the OP Did the Chinese have his wife and family in custody? why didn't he take his family to the embassy?
I can see why the Americans did not do more I suppose, would they risk upsetting the Chinese on a one man issue?
Not saying it is right but sometimes our Governments must look at the bigger picture and weigh things up, save one man and his family and let (maybe) many contracts which will help many Americans slip away or tell the man to leave because it is an internal Chinese affair and still get the contracts which will help the US economy?.
This issue is not as black and white as it first seems.
Cowards? nah.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Wow that blind guy sounds like he is Zatoichi.

Back to the OP Did the Chinese have his wife and family in custody? why didn't he take his family to the embassy?
I can see why the Americans did not do more I suppose, would they risk upsetting the Chinese on a one man issue?
Not saying it is right but sometimes our Governments must look at the bigger picture and weigh things up, save one man and his family and let (maybe) many contracts which will help many Americans slip away or tell the man to leave because it is an internal Chinese affair and still get the contracts which will help the US economy?.
This issue is not as black and white as it first seems.
Cowards? nah.

What of America's principles? What about freedom and democracy? Aren't we supposed to represent that?

Those ideals are just as important as one man.

reply to post by boymonkey74


Let me ask you something.

So one man is okay to sacrafice.

What about two?

Three?

What number is it, when we start growing a backbone?

reply to post by beezzer


Heck I do agree with you but what would you rather

1) The US saves that one man (and maybe his family) and cause a big rift between China and the US which results in many billions of trade agreements down the swannie thus causing more tent cities in the US, more people losing their jobs, homes and their lives.

or

2) The US gives up a man and so the Chinese/US relations continue to help growth in the US economy thus helping people to pay their mortgage, send their kids to school and put something away for the future?

Yes I know it stinks but that is what they (The embassy and your Government) will be thinking.
It isn't a perfect world and unfortunatly hard choices have to be made.

reply to post by beezzer


Apparently keeping on good terms with our…errr…BANKERs in China is of the utmost importance.

On the other hand, US had no way of protecting this guy’s wife and family because his wife and family did not seek protection at the embassy. What else were they to do? US has no authority to run around town and scoop up his family. Maybe Yet Chen should have thought this out a little better??

reply to post by beezzer


Every country has sacrificed many of their own people and people from other countries to get more resources, heck it has been going on since time began.
I know it doesn't make it right but it is what happens.
I hope the guy can goto another embassy with his family and get asylum somewhere safe but let's not berate the US for looking after its interests first.
Any country in the world would have done the same.

reply to post by boymonkey74
Why do we bother then.

Really.

Principles?
Gone.

Do you really think China would ruin trade with us over one guy?

This kind of thing used to happen on a weekly basis dusring the cold war with the USSR. And we STILL did business with them.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by beezzer

 

Apparently keeping on good terms with our…errr…BANKERs in China is of the utmost importance.

On the other hand, US had no way of protecting this guy’s wife and family because his wife and family did not seek protection at the embassy. What else were they to do? US has no authority to run around town and scoop up his family. Maybe Yet Chen should have thought this out a little better??

The US could have said, "Cough up the guys family or YOU lose a trading partner!"

reply to post by beezzer


Of course the US "Blinked"

In a standoff with the Financial sector in 2008, they Blinked as well.

It seems to be the way things work here now. It's sad really.

-SC

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by beezzer

 

Every country has sacrificed many of their own people and people from other countries to get more resources, heck it has been going on since time began.
I know it doesn't make it right but it is what happens.
I hope the guy can goto another embassy with his family and get asylum somewhere safe but let's not berate the US for looking after its interests first.
Any country in the world would have done the same.

Yeah, the US is no better than any other country.

Used to be a time, I thought it was different, better, than any other country.

Not anymore.

Originally posted by SkullCreek
reply to post by beezzer

 

Of course the US "Blinked"

In a standoff with the Financial sector in 2008, they Blinked as well.

It seems to be the way things work here now. It's sad really.

-SC

Disappointing. I want to be proud of my country.

This is like peeing in the oatmeal.

A great way to ruin a day.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Wow that blind guy sounds like he is Zatoichi.

Back to the OP Did the Chinese have his wife and family in custody? why didn't he take his family to the embassy?
I can see why the Americans did not do more I suppose, would they risk upsetting the Chinese on a one man issue?
Not saying it is right but sometimes our Governments must look at the bigger picture and weigh things up, save one man and his family and let (maybe) many contracts which will help many Americans slip away or tell the man to leave because it is an internal Chinese affair and still get the contracts which will help the US economy?.
This issue is not as black and white as it first seems.
Cowards? nah.

What of America's principles? What about freedom and democracy? Aren't we supposed to represent that?

Those ideals are just as important as one man.

Come now. The USA (and nearly all nations) have quite merrily supported and bankrolled any number of odious butchers when its convenient. Turning one man away is negligible, small potatoes stuff.

Its about national interest (which is usually synonymous with the interest of the backers of the ruling party at the time).

Freedom and democracy really doesn't have anything to do with it. Thats just rhetoric to be employed as needed to gather support of the masses for whats already been determined to be in the national interest.

Its got absolutely nothing to do with the conduct of nations beyond slogans. It never has, save a brief period perhaps after the US Republic was formed.

Theres no tooth fairy either. :-)

reply to post by beezzer


Individuals can afford to have principles and Iam glad you are here pointing them out (Heck I agree with you 100%) but Governments have to bend their principles to get what they want on a world stage (The US have bent their principles on more than one occasion recently).
Like I said I don't agree with what the US/China have done to this guy but Iam looking at it from a individuals standpoint and principles, when you are trying your best for your whole country principles will get thrown out of the window.

reply to post by beezzer

The US could have said, "Cough up the guys family or YOU lose a trading partner!"

And the Chinese could have responded “Mind your own business or you lose your embassy and your endless supply of loans.”

I think the guy should have brought his loved ones. IMO what Yet Chen did is akin to escaping an attacker while leaving your wife and kids to fend for themselves. He should have thought this through…was there any doubt about retribution by the Chinese government for his actions? If they were reasonable people Chen wouldn’t have been fleeing in the first place!

reply to post by justwokeup


reply to post by boymonkey74


I get what you both are saying. (I think)

Individuals have principles, values.

Governments don't.