America. A country led by cowards.

reply to post by beezzer


I tell you what, if you really care, and want to do more than call othe people names, anonymously on the internet, start a boycott of Chinese goods.

First though, go through your house and throw out everything made in China.

Then, using yourself as an example, start a boycott of their products.

What, that's too much work?

What, 90% of the things you own were made by slave labour in china or some other developing country?

This is such a stupid thing to get worked up over.

Why?

Because the Chinese do much worse to thousands of people every year... And you know that... And you still buy their crap. This whole, "one guy is worth an international incedent" BS is just you oversimplifying a problem you and every American created and sustains.

The US leaders may suck, but they're simply giving Americans what they want: tons of cheap crap.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Wow that blind guy sounds like he is Zatoichi.

Back to the OP Did the Chinese have his wife and family in custody? why didn't he take his family to the embassy?
I can see why the Americans did not do more I suppose, would they risk upsetting the Chinese on a one man issue?
Not saying it is right but sometimes our Governments must look at the bigger picture and weigh things up, save one man and his family and let (maybe) many contracts which will help many Americans slip away or tell the man to leave because it is an internal Chinese affair and still get the contracts which will help the US economy?.
This issue is not as black and white as it first seems.
Cowards? nah.

What of America's principles? What about freedom and democracy? Aren't we supposed to represent that?

Those ideals are just as important as one man.

Unfortunatly freedom and democracy are just illusionist tricks. There are apart of the skillfull manipulation of the masses. Democracy should be directly by the people or it is not democrazy. You cannot be truly free as long as someone can force you to do things to stay alive. Both the representive democrazy and capitalism are pyramid schemes of power. And the power pyramid is always flatter in the begining and then the top pulls away from the bottom until the masses revolt and create a newer flatter pyramid again. That power pyramid is always doomed to fail wherever it is used since it creates corruption at the top and ego parasitic behavior from the top from the bottom.

So the country become a prasite on it's citzens and give back some of it. The more tax you can get the more you can loose money down the pockets of the top of the pyramid. The successful corperations are the same. Make sure you corner the market so you can make things cost more while you cut spending as much as possible by no paying decent wages event when the person produce things that is worth 100 times what the persons wage.

Originally posted by justwokeup

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Wow that blind guy sounds like he is Zatoichi.

Back to the OP Did the Chinese have his wife and family in custody? why didn't he take his family to the embassy?
I can see why the Americans did not do more I suppose, would they risk upsetting the Chinese on a one man issue?
Not saying it is right but sometimes our Governments must look at the bigger picture and weigh things up, save one man and his family and let (maybe) many contracts which will help many Americans slip away or tell the man to leave because it is an internal Chinese affair and still get the contracts which will help the US economy?.
This issue is not as black and white as it first seems.
Cowards? nah.

What of America's principles? What about freedom and democracy? Aren't we supposed to represent that?

Those ideals are just as important as one man.

Come now. The USA (and nearly all nations) have quite merrily supported and bankrolled any number of odious butchers when its convenient. Turning one man away is negligible, small potatoes stuff.

Its about national interest (which is usually synonymous with the interest of the backers of the ruling party at the time).

Freedom and democracy really doesn't have anything to do with it. Thats just rhetoric to be employed as needed to gather support of the masses for whats already been determined to be in the national interest.

Its got absolutely nothing to do with the conduct of nations beyond slogans. It never has, save a brief period perhaps after the US Republic was formed.

Theres no tooth fairy either. :-)

I agree about the Freedom and democracy but I am more unsure about the tooth fairy. There might be a chance that it exists . But Freedom and democracy. No that does not exist on this planet from my point of view but Switzerland seem to be closest to democracy with their people being able to put things to a vote and the politicians have to follow it.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by ColCurious
reply to post by beezzer

 

Agreed. Seems like the great USA is losing the edge she was so admired for by her allies (and enemies alike).
What ever happened to the idea of a beacon of light and hope to the free world?
I don't want to imagine a fascist like Hitler rising up in a country whithout oil nowadays.

We were a beacon of light.

Now we're just another country.

Obama, the great equalizer.

When was US a beacon of light. Under Bush? Ones I thought you where a becon of light. The I saw the thruth behind US propaganda and then your where just a country like any other. Russia or US. From my point of view same thing only more hightech from the US and US use illussion more where Russia is more open about what they think and not so twofaced. I think China need to change but one thing that is nice is that they still have not become illusionist like US and most Europe. From my point of view you have not had a decent president since John F. Kennedy.

Rather than to blame USA, lay the blame STRAIGHT on the brutal CCP regime.

Asylum is a time honored tradiation that dates back to the birth of our current civilisation.

It is the last MORTAL recourse a fellow human can ever hope for, redress wrongs dealt to him.

It is often up to the host country to accept or reject asylum seekers, based upon evidences and circumstances, and that sanctuary MUST be granted if genuine repression of a fellow human by the authorities is proven, for the respect and rule of law as well as observance of human rights.

That the CCP gov had pressured and threatened USA as well as the immediate family of the dissident goes only to show how REPREHENSIBLE that inhuman monster CCP gov is ruling China. There is no law and nothing human in principle that it supports, except for its own survival, a beast like any other, and certainly not fit to rule over our fellow humans in China. No Beast must be allowed to control humankind, or only suffering and pain will ensue.

It would have been best for the stupid CCP regime to let him go. Let him and his family become another's problem, should it arise. But for the sake of ego and foolish pride, which proves the CCP leaders are mere immatured children, they are reluctant to do so, with yet threats to further harm.

USA can sit back, and release the dissident to the CCP. There is no way that USA can legally smuggle the dissident out, not then with 100 taxpayer paid CCP bootlicking eyeballs watching him and now probably thousands of armed troops. It's a matter of rule of law.

It would had been different if the dissident had quietly smuggled him out of China itself and brought him to USA. Then there would be no way any leader worth his salt, conscience and ruling legitimacy hand the dissident over or need to, to a screaming or threatening foolish CCP run by dangerours but mere schoolyard bullies.

As it is, it is in the court of the CCP regime. It has links to the world. It.s rise from poverty, exclaimations of humankind responsibilities and legitimacy is owed to world's humanity. Release the dissident and his family honorable, and honor will be returned in kind to the CCP, with hopes by mankind that it will mature over time.

Hold the dissident back and hurt his family, rest assured that all mankind will spit upon the CCP for generations, if not already doing it, and will ensure every form of hell beset that regime to collapse soon, for the sake of our fellow humans, not only the dissident, but all residing in China.

reply to post by beezzer


What you fail to mention is a movie in itself. He's blind. And he manged to escape at night climbing over a wall and staggering and stumbling in the darkness to meet his rendezvous point.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious

My stuff is definitely nowhere near 90% made in china.
I'm German, but I guess 90% is a vast exaggeration for the U.S. aswell.
I could boycott chinese crap np. If anything I would miss fortune cookies.
But I agree on your point that people should stop buying cheap crap and start to buy responsibly (meaning: buy regionally produced quality!).

Instead of caving in and hiding behind such platitudes like, "All our stuff is from China", "It's none of our business"

Why not take a look at ourselves. If we are so cowardly that we can't even agree to stand on principle, then maybe we do have the country we deserve.

So instead of taking advice from nameless people on the internet, I'll still continue to promote values, principles.

All the nay-sayers can't hide behind their rhetoric and cringe if China makes noise.

reply to post by beezzer


I'm not hiding behind that, I'm calling out your hypocrisy.

This guy and his family are a blip compared to say, what China has done in Tibet, what Chinese companies do to their employees, and the thousands executed for meaningless crimes.

Why in the world do you think anyone will get exercised about this when even you don't care about the rest if the much bigger problem.

How about Chinas support for prison camps of unimaginable cruelty in North Korea?

If the US is gonna stand up to China, and put the world on the edge of chaos, at least do it for a real reason, relative to the potential fallout.

And don't blah blah blah about everyone else when you yourself support the regime with your money. Your most powerful vote is with your money, and your voting against this guy every time you shop.

That's wildly hypocritcal and your whining about the tiniest of all the real problems you should have with China.

Well when you pin your hopes on Hillary.......

reply to post by ColCurious


A little googleing shows that:

Wal-Mart, the largest chain in the history of the world, gets 70% of it's products from China.

Every car sold in America has some Chinese parts.

Every electronic device in America has some Chinese parts.

98% of all clothing sold in America is NOT made in America. The VAST majority of that is made in China.

The EU has strong rules about products sold in the EU. That's not the case in the US. I've spent years in both places.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by beezzer

 

I'm not hiding behind that, I'm calling out your hypocrisy.

This guy and his family are a blip compared to say, what China has done in Tibet, what Chinese companies do to their employees, and the thousands executed for meaningless crimes.

Why in the world do you think anyone will get exercised about this when even you don't care about the rest if the much bigger problem.

How about Chinas support for prison camps of unimaginable cruelty in North Korea?

If the US is gonna stand up to China, and put the world on the edge of chaos, at least do it for a real reason, relative to the potential fallout.

And don't blah blah blah about everyone else when you yourself support the regime with your money. Your most powerful vote is with your money, and your voting against this guy every time you shop.

That's wildly hypocritcal and your whining about the tiniest of all the real problems you should have with China.

No hypocricy. A man asked for help and we turned him away, back to the same people that tortured and imprisoned him before.

I see something wrong with that.

I see something wrong when people try to justify their cowardly actions.

This isn't about me. This is about our so-called leaders who make rash judgements when it suits them and hems and haws when real issues confront them.

reply to post by beezzer


You turn away from people in your own neighbourhood that need your help every day.

It's nice that you care about this one random Chinese guy, but you'd be much better off spending your time whinging about Tibet or North Korea. In fact Tibetans have been asking for US help for years and we ignore them. And the Chinese are ethnically cleansing the whole area. And have been. For years.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by beezzer

 

You turn away from people in your own neighbourhood that need your help every day.

It's nice that you care about this one random Chinese guy, but you'd be much better off spending your time whinging about Tibet or North Korea. In fact Tibetans have been asking for US help for years and we ignore them. And the Chinese are ethnically cleansing the whole area. And have been. For years.

Wrong. Again, this isn't about me.

I get the fact that you don't care about one person.
Pity.

You support and defend cowardly actions by our government.

Now go start a thread on Tibet. I'll even star you.

Not only lead but followed by cowards as well.

Hard to change something that is generationally programmed even at the genetic level.

Its hard to fight a Silent Weapon for a Quiet war because
A. You dont believe it exists
B. Its known and has been grown accustomed to. in the box comfort zone...come on in..the water is fine.

Takes a 80 IQ with about 1/8th autism symptoms and divine power to fight this thing. Have to be sort of a weirdo dont fit in anywhere thats offered kinda person.
Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars

reply to post by beezzer


In fact I do care about him as much as I care about any random person in the news.

But.

I think it says a LOT more about you that you choose to see this issue as a political issue and a way to slam politicians. It's not, to you, about one guy. It's about politics. But these politics are about business and business trumps morality in America. Every time. That's America.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
But politics are influencing what happens to this one guy that you don't care about.

reply to post by beezzer


No.

Politics in this case are simply a smokeshield for big business. The politicians are simply propping up the entire US economic system. If that wasn't involved, say this guy was in Iceland, then sure bash the pols, but with China, it's just big business. Not politics.

And listen, for every random person you careabout there's millions you don't, so don't act superior. I just happen to be honest about this. In a month you'll have completely forgotten. And you'll still be propping up the economic system that created this problem.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


It's politics because politics lay the groundwork for business.

Justify the cowadice all you want. But it'll still be cowardice in the end.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


LOL.

It's not cowardice

They're not scared, they don't give a #, because this is not a big deal, relatively.

And no, at this point, politics are not laying ground work for business. That groundwork way laid decades ago.

So no, no one is scared, it's not cowardice, business trump politics in America. And your prolong up that system with your money. You care, but only as long as the only cost to you is arguing on the Internet.