If not OWS then what?

OWS is just enabling the professional rioters, anarchists and terrorists to do what they have trained so long to do.

That's it, nothing more nothing less.

Anyone attending OWS is guilty by association of any of the above mentioned parties actions.

You ask if not then what?
How about waking up instead of being accomplices to violence?

If you think OWS is about finding solutions to societies problems, you got your heads in the sand. It is only about anarchy, chaos, disorder, tearing down the fabric of society.

Yes, wake up would be the first thing to do, then you can look around and see for yourself instead of being bullhorned into mindless zombie chants.

Occupy people just don’t get it. They listen to the voice of anarchists. They only way to effetely change the situation is through is through reform. The only way to reform is from within. The only way to get in is to participate. Big brother don’t bend and he don’t break. You may sucker punch him but you won’t beet him. Change is through the participation in politics. You have to have a party with a single message. The tea party is an example of people trying to stop a government out of control. Out of control spending and out of control erosion of our basic freedoms. However, the same voice that is calling for the demonstrations of occupy is the same voice in the main stream media telling occupy to dislike all the like minded people with the same goals. They need the two movements and the people at odds with each other. That’s called “shift the blame.”
I am as much in favor of political reform as anyone is, but it can only be done from within. That won’t happen unless we are working together through involvement in the government. I have seen it in other countries; they grow additional organization in the government to produce more rules and regulation for you to live by. They need more people and money to run the organization that rule over you, make trouble and expense in your daily life. You pay the government to hassle you! Government should not own business, we aren’t commies. Government should not tell you how to live your life. You don’t need the government to line the pockets of big business at your expense and the expense of your grand children. Big government has to go.

Useful idiots. They are giving TPTB all the reason they need to declare martial law. How about running for office and working from within to change the system?

All protestors should go with firearms. You have thr right to bear arms so why not bloody use it!

At least you will be able to protect yourselves!!!

reply to post by seagrass


So, if I protest with OWS, that makes me a bum too?

I work full-time at a job that I hate very much. However, the economy is bad enough that I must keep this job. If I lose it, there are no other places that will pay as much as I make now.

My rent's going up, some of my bills have gone up and I'm finding it more difficult to save money. I am still looking around for something better.

My point is, OWS is not cut and dry like some think. Skyfloating should talk to people who support OWS. Hear them out. They may be in the same situation as I am where they may feel like they are working for a future that just isn't there.

Until then, keep on fighting the good fight and don't let a bunch of unruly people ruin an entire movement. Every movement, whether it be Tea Party, OWS or even the civil rights movements of the 1960s, has had agent provocateurs like the Black Bloc and other violent instigators. They are placed there as a means of discrediting each movement.

Originally posted by seagrass

That's the same kind of broad brush painting as calling the TPM racist hillbillys.


I thought "Deny Ignorance" was supposed to be our code.

The implication of the title is that there is hardly an alternative to OWS to "do a good deed". My offer is that going about your job in the best way you can is far superior to standing on the streets being angry. You can either spend the day at an OWS event OR you can spend it on your job. Whats going to make more of a difference? OWS has made not made a positive difference. Its cost a lot of taxpayer money and made a lot of people angry at vague "powers that be".

I dont think this is equal to calling TPM racists (some of which actually are, btw). Instead my post sought to challenge the contained contained in the title of the thread itself. "If not OWS then what?" Well, there are a Million better ways to influence the world in a good way.

Seems like a popular counter culture paradox

reply to post by Skyfloating


But what about us who have good jobs and still choose to go to the events after we get off?

Originally posted by seberhar

But what about us who have good jobs and still choose to go to the events after we get off?

There are 10000000000000000000000000000 things you can do to improve the world. Which do you chose?

As History has shown, one of the best ways to improve the world is to improve yourself. Another way to improve it is within your own sphere of influence (neighbourhood, community, company). History has also shown that angry street protests is one of the least effective ways to bring about lasting change in a positive way that respects all involved. This option is chosen by those unfamiliar with History and the world at large.

reply to post by Skyfloating


One of the projects I worked on while at Occupy Baltimore was to work with community outreach programs to fight for affordable energy for low income households in the inner city. And guess what? It worked! The energy company agreed to not raise their rates.

That is really what drew me to the movement. It's not just smelly hippies standing on a corner holding a sign about student debt. That's just what you see on foxnews. It's a whole movement that is centered around helping your peers when the government won't. Additionally, I was also drawn to the peacefulness of it. The recent violence has not been what I was hoping for and if it continues to trend in that direction I will be done with it.

Originally posted by seberhar
I think so far it has accomplished the following (among other things):

-It has forced open minded people to look at the system and question it a little bit.

People have been questioning "the system" since 1000s of years and will always do so. Especially if their lives suck.

-It has forced politicians to address the issues of student debt and bad loan practices.

Politicians have been addressing student loan practices since a long time, many different things have been tried and will continue to be tried. Has nothing to do with OWS whatsoever.

-It has given anarchists an avenue to express themselves.

Anarchists have always expressed themselves pre-OWS and will continue to do so post-OWS.

-It has brought people together from many walks of life to unite for a common cause.

They are just the next generation of discontents who will angrily protest just as the last Generation did and the next one will. Same old movement, new name.

-It has given people that are pro-system even more reason to hate those opposed to it, so it that sense it has separated people even more.

If they "hated" you that means they would actually care or take you seriously. "They" dont, because there is no collective "they". Neither is there a collective, universally agreed upon "system". You are boxing with shadows.

Originally posted by seberhar

One of the projects I worked on while at Occupy Baltimore was to work with community outreach programs to fight for affordable energy for low income households in the inner city. And guess what? It worked! The energy company agreed to not raise their rates.

So you have a sense of personal achievement for the good. Thats good then.

I don't think OWS is making a big enough statement. I'll post this quote from an article that I read called the age of excellence.

"The OWS protesters have only one choice: be excellent.

And by the looks of their efforts they are only "good" at protesting.
If OWS wants to make an impact, it will have to let go of the "good
protest" high-fives and figure out how to do a protest that CNN will
cover 20 days in row.

Seriously, if I'm running OWS, we're going to get 100 folks to climb
on board a billionaire's yacht and handcuff ourselves to the railing.
That would be EXCELLENT protesting.

How about occupying the Hamptons on Main Street and hitting the rich
where it hurts: traffic on Friday afternoons and Sunday nights! Take
your protesting seriously, OWS -- take it to the excellent level.
Don't let them put you in a box!

Or maybe we would go to a major golf course and storm the 18th hole in
the middle of a Tiger Woods comeback. That would get attention! That
would seriously piss off rich people and get the message out.

Excellence: it's all that's left."

reply to post by stigup

That would get attention! That would seriously piss off rich people and get the message out.

and what is that message exactly?

is pissing off the rich really what you consider to be protesting excellence?

if you aren't part of the solution - you are part of the problem

what is the problem? what is the solution?

this should be about integrity and justice - not about pouting out loud and throwing tantrums

edit to add: your resentment of the rich is exactly why this movement will fail

figure it out

Originally posted by seberhar
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

But what about us who have good jobs and still choose to go to the events after we get off?

a star for you :-)

and...what about those that have no jobs - lost their jobs - have been trying to find jobs and don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting a job the way things stand now?

gotta love the whole cut your hair and get a job pat answer to all this - don't you? :-)

not having a job is a big part of why OWS is happening in the first place

I believe the whole OWS movement is a divisive class warfare operation conducted by the Obama administration and/or his corporate supporters (Soros et al).

I am going to address your bullet points one by one:

-It has forced open minded people to look at the system and question it a little bit.

Open-minded people need to be forced to question authority? I don't think so. These OWS people are closed-minded lemmings who are being manipulated. They will join any chant that some operative starts. They are angry because the economy is being methodically disassembled, and that's understandable. But they are being told to blame "Wall Street" instead of the government and the Fed and other parties who are equally responsible. They do not have the ability to "come together" like you think they are, and use logic to arrive at a solution, which is to vote out the current administration and put someone like Ron Paul in there. Romney is not a solution, either.

-It has forced politicians to address the issues of student debt and bad loan practices.

What needs to be addressed, exactly? If you want to go to collage and don't have the money, you get a student loan. Then you pay it back. That's what you do when you borrow money - you pay it back. You don't borrow it, then bitch and moan and say that it isn't fair that you have to pay it back. You're not buying a house that you can't afford.

-It has given anarchists an avenue to express themselves.

Anarchists need an avenue to express themselves? They're not very good at anarchy, are they?

-It has brought people together from many walks of life to unite for a common cause.

That sounds a lot like communist propaganda. People uniting. (Workers) uniting. Common cause. Lots of socialisty buzzwords in there.

-It has given people that are pro-system even more reason to hate those opposed to it, so it that sense it has separated people even more.

I don't think anyone is pro-system these days, unless you are an insider already. The whole movement is a tool to separate people, not unite them, make no mistake about that.

The Tea Party has been fighting government corruption and waste for a few years now without the rape, vandalism, destruction of property, theft and crying about the unfairness of having to work for what you get that happens in the OWS riots. If you want liberty and freedom join the Tea Party. Besides TP weren't created by a known terrorist and a known communist.

Originally posted by luccadeo
The Tea Party has been fighting government corruption and waste for a few years now without the rape, vandalism, destruction of property, theft and crying about the unfairness of having to work for what you get that happens in the OWS riots. If you want liberty and freedom join the Tea Party. Besides TP weren't created by a known terrorist and a known communist.

I feel sorry for people who might drown in a rainstorm.

Found this interesting. Probably worthy of a thread all its own, but I'm tired and going to hit the sack soon, so...

Cops Planting Drugs and Intoxicated People in the OWS Crowd.

Video documentation by local activists and independent media shows that police officers and county deputies from across Minnesota have been picking up young people near Peavey Plaza for a training program to recognize drug-impaired drivers. Multiple participants say officers gave them illicit drugs and provided other incentives to take the drugs.

If the drug use is turning out to be a fabricated mess, then it's likely that the rapes and violence are being police orchestrated as well. The Tea Party hasn't been targeted in this manner because the Tea Party isn't a threat to the system, let alone those in charge of said system.