Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
reply to post by elitegamer23

 

Completely agree.....soooo the "heart" of my message in this thread is to be honest with yourself and each other......will prevent alot of broken hearts and broken homes.......

when your child is old enough i think you should tell her that her father is gay. its better to live in the truth than in a lie. it could also be a way of getting back at him, which is wrong. but i think your daughter will have a much better life is she just knows the truth at the right age. someday she will find out, and do you want her to hate you for lying to her and keeping things secret? she trust nobody in this world more then you so dont hurt her by abusing that trust. yes talk to him before u tell your daughter, it should be a mutual announcement. im not thinking you two are civil enough to do that . forgive him , you will only hurt your child by holding hate in your heart for her father.

its sad that society has created such a hate for people being who they are. remember when blacks were hated and lynched because they were simply, black?

Originally posted by newsoul
reply to post by twinsoulz23

 

When I was in grade school, none of my friends were gay. No one that I grew up with is gay. I am 40 and not a single person that I knew from school is gay. I recently went back to school to get my degree in sonography. I attended a private college in Kentucky. What I saw completely blew my mind. I would say that the majority of girls at the college are lesbians. This is a co-ed school, so there are plenty of boys to choose from. It is obvious that homosexuality doesn't hold the same stigma that it once did. I keep hearing about people being bullied and ridiculed because of their orientation, if these girls at a private college in the backwoods of Kentucky aren't being ridiculed, I think it is fair to say that MOST homosexuals are no longer being openly ridiculed.

I personally believe that homosexuality has become the new drug of choice for many young people. It is their vehicle of choice for rebellion. Where once a teenager might smoke a little or drink a little to get noticed or to "get back at their parents" now they are "homosexuals". It's cool. It's the thing to be. It was obvious that most of the girls were just in it for the shock value and nothing more.

Are you serious with that last paragraph? Nobody chooses to be gayto get back at their parents. However, they may come out of the closet to get back their parents. I am a firm believer that homosexuality is a genetic defect.

reply to post by toochaos4u


Of course you shouldn't be denied the right to be who you are, and that is what I'm saying in essence.

Maybe what your saying is that I should be more frustrated by "society" standards that encouraged this to occur, more than the actual "personal" trama I have experienced, and I totally get that.

The fact is if it weren't for my ability or desire to make sense of this, other than hurt and anger, I wouldn't even be in this conversation. I appreciate and value this conversation if it serves to add more honesty and love to human relationships...♥

Has anyone studied or witnessed homosexuality in the animal kingdom besides the once in a blue moon incident? I mean has there every been recorded gay couples in the animal world? This is why I find it unnatural. You cannot procreate if you're gay so the most simplistic outlook on homosexuality proves to be unnatural and against the species progress. If everyone was gay we'd be extinct.. How else can anyone look at it?

Originally posted by toochaos4u
reply to post by MountainLaurel

 

I hear you. I have never had any respect for gay men that play straight and hurt others. But, this is what society expects. I know men like this that have been doing this for decades and eventually tell their wives they are impotent to avoid sex and intimacy. Would you deny me though the ability to be honest and upfront. I never played the pretend straight other than dating a girl when I was in high school for two months upon pressure from family. Kissing and any type of intimacy felt like what I would image a guy kissing his sister would feel like.

I understand that, but maybe society is to blame for men and women that do that. I had a relative that was gay, and He came out of the closet right before he died a couple of years ago (He died via car crash, nothing sexually transmitted to all you haters out there). The reason he choose to come out so late in life to everybody was because where we are from, you can get killed (yes murdered, shot, etc.) for being that way. I know my reli wasn't an isolated incident as well,because America and the whole world is just like that, and I feel it is wrong to discriminate to the point where you would want to shoot and kill someone for their way of living life, or for who/what they are. Didn't we already go through that nonsense during the Civil Rights Era?? So at the end of the day who is really to blame for that?

reply to post by twinsoulz23


I had concrete blocks thrown through the windshield of my car and death threats after all I am from South Carolina and it is backwards here as it can get. It is a society problem yes, but perpetuated often by closeted males helping to pass anti-gay legislation while sitting in their hotel room being serviced by a male prostitute. It is crazy.

Originally posted by MegaSpace
As an observe to this topic. I just want some clarification on something. To those who keep throwing the gene proof argument. Where is this so called homosexual gene? I done a quick online research & found it’s heresy & pure speculation with no concrete evidence. Does this gene really, really exist?? can it be proved it exists???

Is homosexuality natural?

Well, like I said they can turn female labrats gay by messing with their genes.

Genetic and physiological basis for homosexual animal behavior

Researchers found that disabling the (fucose mutarotase) FucM gene in laboratory mice – which influences the levels of estrogen to which the brain is exposed – caused the female mice to behave as if they were male as they grew up. "The mutant female mouse underwent a slightly altered developmental programme in the brain to resemble the male brain in terms of sexual preference" said Professor Chankyu Park of the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology in Daejon, South Korea, who led the research. His most recent findings have been published in the BMC Genetics journal on July 7, 2010.[27][28]

In March 2011, research shows that serotonin is involved in the mechanism of sexual orientation of mice.[29][30]

Other examples of animals known for homosexual tendancies:

4.1.1 Black swans
4.1.2 Gulls
4.1.3 Ibises
4.1.4 Mallards
4.1.5 Penguins
4.1.6 Vultures
4.1.7 Pigeons
4.2.1 Amazon Dolphin
4.2.2 American Bison
4.2.3 Bonobo and other apes
4.2.4 Bottlenose dolphins
4.2.5 Elephants
4.2.6 Giraffes
4.2.7 Monkeys
4.2.8 Japanese macaque
4.2.9 Lions
4.2.10 Polecat
4.2.11 Sheep
4.2.12 Spotted Hyena
4.3.1 Lizards
4.3.2 Dragonflies
4.3.3 Fruit flies
4.3.4 Bed bugs


en.wikipedia.org...

So again, is homosexual natural - and is it genetic? Look at the empircal evidence and the answer becomes obvious.

IMO - the only way you can conclude that it isn't natural is to purposely ignore all of the evidence.

reply to post by Lionhearte

I have to admit that I didn't read the whole thread but I did do a search and didn't see anything on John Money and David Reimer.

David Reimer (August 22, 1965 – May 5, 2004) was a Canadian man who was born as a healthy male, but was sexually reassigned and raised as female after his penis was accidentally destroyed during circumcision.[1] Psychologist John Money oversaw the case and reported the reassignment as successful, and as evidence that gender identity is primarily learned. Academic sexologist Milton Diamond later reported that Reimer failed to identify as female since the age of 9 to 11,[2] and that he began living as male at age 15. Reimer later went public with his story to discourage similar medical practices. He later committed suicide, owing to suffering years of severe depression, financial instability and a troubled marriage.

So it would seem that this person was "born opposite of that way" and that no amount of conditioning was able to overcome his straightness. I would think that the same is probably true of those "born that way".

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
reply to post by toochaos4u

 

Of course you shouldn't be denied the right to be who you are, and that is what I'm saying in essence.

Maybe what your saying is that I should be more frustrated by "society" standards that encouraged this to occur, more than the actual "personal" trama I have experienced, and I totally get that.

The fact is if it weren't for my ability or desire to make sense of this, other than hurt and anger, I wouldn't even be in this conversation. I appreciate and value this conversation if it serves to add more honesty and love to human relationships...♥

i really respect people who open their minds up and listen to thoughts that dont always agree with theirs.
i think you should really come to peace with what happened, and forgive her father, and find a way to become friends with him again.
you never would have been married if you werent friends before you were lovers.
it will only hurt your daughter in the long run if you and her dad arent raising her together, even when apart.

if it helps u any, i have two friends who have gay parents. one has a lesbian mom and she is a wonderful person and she raised 3 awesome , kind people who are all straight. they also had their own kids and do an amazing job of raising them.

my other friend has a gay father , and their family still kinda keeps it in the closet . all his kids are straight and they had their own children and love them very very much.

being gay isnt a bad thing, hate is bad.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

I have to admit that I didn't read the whole thread but I did do a search and didn't see anything on John Money and David Reimer.

David Reimer (August 22, 1965 – May 5, 2004) was a Canadian man who was born as a healthy male, but was sexually reassigned and raised as female after his penis was accidentally destroyed during circumcision.[1] Psychologist John Money oversaw the case and reported the reassignment as successful, and as evidence that gender identity is primarily learned. Academic sexologist Milton Diamond later reported that Reimer failed to identify as female since the age of 9 to 11,[2] and that he began living as male at age 15. Reimer later went public with his story to discourage similar medical practices. He later committed suicide, owing to suffering years of severe depression, financial instability and a troubled marriage.

So it would seem that this person was "born opposite of that way" and that no amount of conditioning was able to overcome his straightness. I would think that the same is probably true of those "born that way".

Exactly. Because it's not a choice. He was born a straight male, the doctors severely #'d up, and they decided to turn his life into a social expiriment.

If being gay WAS a choice, then he could have accepted his gender reassignment at some point.

But he NEVER DID. And doctors, believing homosexuality was a choice, destroyed this poor man's life.

www.livescience.com...

In 2004 the researchers studied about 200 Italian families and found that the mothers, maternal aunts and maternal grandmothers of gay men are more fecund, or fruitful, than average. Recently, they tried to explain their findings with a number of genetic models, and found one that fit the bill.

So if there is some sort of gay gene or other biological cause of homosexuality, it could perpetuate itself.

Given that we are primates, we are animals, we can look around the rest of the animal kingdom to see if homosexuality is unique to humans or not...

en.wikipedia.org...

No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis.

If you believe that non-human animals are stupid and incapable of things like "free will", the above citation is a destruction of any claims that homosexuality is a "choice". You're forced to either a) accept animals (penguins, giraffes, whatever) are more intelligent and capable of making a decision on their sexual orientation or b) born that way.

If animals can be "born that way", well, we are animals, so why couldn't we be "born that way"?

If a straight person wants to believe that being gay is a choice, I can only think that this stems from:
www.theatlantic.com...

The fear, anxiety, and aversion that some seemingly heterosexual people hold toward gays and lesbians can grow out of their own repressed same-sex desires

That is, instead of dealing with any curiosity, or confusion, about their sexual desires, they deny these feelings (repress them), thus causing them to believe that homosexuality is a choice. Newsflash, when you allow yourself to deal with these things in an open and honest manner, they can go away on their own (and others will discover their bi or homosexual interests).

One more thing, I cannot pinpoint the moment in time where I chose to be straight. I would say that I was just "born that way". If we cannot define when we "chose" to be straight, why would we assume that someone else made a conscious decision to be gay?

reply to post by libertytoall


Edit: thegagefather answered you. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by newsoul
reply to post by twinsoulz23

 

When I was in grade school, none of my friends were gay. No one that I grew up with is gay. I am 40 and not a single person that I knew from school is gay. I recently went back to school to get my degree in sonography. I attended a private college in Kentucky. What I saw completely blew my mind. I would say that the majority of girls at the college are lesbians. This is a co-ed school, so there are plenty of boys to choose from. It is obvious that homosexuality doesn't hold the same stigma that it once did. I keep hearing about people being bullied and ridiculed because of their orientation, if these girls at a private college in the backwoods of Kentucky aren't being ridiculed, I think it is fair to say that MOST homosexuals are no longer being openly ridiculed.

I personally believe that homosexuality has become the new drug of choice for many young people. It is their vehicle of choice for rebellion. Where once a teenager might smoke a little or drink a little to get noticed or to "get back at their parents" now they are "homosexuals". It's cool. It's the thing to be. It was obvious that most of the girls were just in it for the shock value and nothing more.

My friend, I'm sorry to say this but I believe you are a product of your time. You couldnt be open about that type of stuff 40 years ago, or you would be "burned-at the stake" figuratively speaking. That was an ignorant post, but it's not your fault. You just failed to realize that times have changed. You claim nobody you went to grade school with was homosexual, but really how would you have known unless you were homosexual as well?? Obviously 40 years ago there were a higher percentage of closet-gays, because that lifestyle was too taboo during those time, and we are slowly but surely accepting it as a natural lifestyle now. And the new drug of choice?? That is just retarded. The only ones that are doing it to rebel against their parents, are the ones who's parents probably dont accept that lifestyle in their family, unbeknownst to them, they are saying they arent accepting what/who their child is...Let's be logical here, homosexuality has existed since the dawn of man, Alexander the Great was supposedly bi-sexual, but as is the case for you, that type of behavior probably wasnt accepted then either, because you cannot create a child by men on men, or woman on woman relations.

reply to post by Angry Danish


I think you raise a very good point.

If your defense is "it's wrong, because it's not natural" and you're saying this because the Bible says it....

Then you have to acknowledge the fact that the Bible says animals do not have free will, and many of them have gay tendancies (and by that, I mean the males have sex with the other males - and/or females pair with females).

Therefore, since animals don't make decisions for themselves, you would have to assume that god made homosexuality, since it occurs in nature.

Originally posted by toochaos4u
reply to post by twinsoulz23

 

I had concrete blocks thrown through the windshield of my car and death threats after all I am from South Carolina and it is backwards here as it can get. It is a society problem yes, but perpetuated often by closeted males helping to pass anti-gay legislation while sitting in their hotel room being serviced by a male prostitute. It is crazy.

Real talk, I agree with you 100%. I think the majority of anti-gay ppl are actually closet gays themselves, and dont want to acknowledge it consciously, so they bash those who are open about it, in order to make them less supect and their lives much easier to bear with.

Too true my friend...

---1Love

Originally posted by libertytoall
Has anyone studied or witnessed homosexuality in the animal kingdom besides the once in a blue moon incident? I mean has there every been recorded gay couples in the animal world? This is why I find it unnatural. You cannot procreate if you're gay so the most simplistic outlook on homosexuality proves to be unnatural and against the species progress. If everyone was gay we'd be extinct.. How else can anyone look at it?

Yes.

Researchers are finding male giraffes may be homosexual MORE THAN 50% of the time.

That's just one example.

Being part of society myself, I can honestly say I never forced anyone to procreate, nor have I ever been forced.

Originally posted by Manunnaki
Gay Gene

I see that you are blind and I will now pull the veil from over your eyes. Here is the dumbed down version of what I said. Women carry a gay gene and it most prominant when they have gay family members. Gay people have children because society forces them to. Being bi has nothing to do with the equation. Ever heard of Mathew Shepherd? That's why gays live double lifestyles.

edit on 29-4-2012 by Manunnaki because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-4-2012 by Manunnaki because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by libertytoall
Has anyone studied or witnessed homosexuality in the animal kingdom besides the once in a blue moon incident? I mean has there every been recorded gay couples in the animal world? This is why I find it unnatural. You cannot procreate if you're gay so the most simplistic outlook on homosexuality proves to be unnatural and against the species progress. If everyone was gay we'd be extinct.. How else can anyone look at it?

I would guess that animals could be gay. Perhaps thats where instinct/desire could be variables.
Humans have evolved so incredibly much that it would be hard for me to accept an animal/human comparison.

P.S. I have seen male dogs go and hump other male dogs. I thought they did the hormone/genital sniff to ddetermine sex. Surely dogs would know better?

Originally posted by knightwhosaysnih

Originally posted by flyingkiwi
The same way red heads are "born that way"

errr no. the red head gene is a recessive one that is not found in everyone.. the way one is created by two non red heads is if they both have the recessive gene.. I think its something like a 1 in 4 chance that they will have a kid with red hair. this has been proven in biology.. hell i even remember learning it in year 11 biology. As far as we know there is no "gay gene". It just happens.

That is interesting! As a red head who's mother has blond hair and father has brown hair. My hubby is blond errr was blond until he went grey anyhow and we have four boys. 3 are blond and one has brown hair. I so wanted a red headed little girl. LOL

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by libertytoall
Has anyone studied or witnessed homosexuality in the animal kingdom besides the once in a blue moon incident? I mean has there every been recorded gay couples in the animal world? This is why I find it unnatural. You cannot procreate if you're gay so the most simplistic outlook on homosexuality proves to be unnatural and against the species progress. If everyone was gay we'd be extinct.. How else can anyone look at it?

I would guess that animals could be gay. Perhaps thats where instinct/desire could be variables.
Humans have evolved so incredibly much that it would be hard for me to accept an animal/human comparison.

Humans are biological entities, and in terms of genetic material, we aren't any more advanced than other species.

In fact, many species have much more genetic material than we do.

That said - you're wrong - humans aren't evolved past animals.

In fact... WE ARE ANIMALS.