Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

reply to post by ILikeStars


the topic is about opposite, to help shed light on the details as far as pro-homosexuality advocates.

Since your talking about personal experience, here's one that I've witnessed. I have a friend in church who at one point became attracted to males for quite some time. (years)

Whats happening now is quite the opposite. He's practicing heterosexuality and he's not bothered by the fact that he left that 'lifestyle'.

I can't explain to you how that worked, but I can say that it happened. Just as you claim that you can't chance your interests.

This thread is going entirely too fast to actually deal with the subtle nature of human sexual expression....

How many people here have ever developed a sexual kink?

I mean liked one that one did not used to like.... of any kind?


Can anyone be that much of an adult to say such a thing?

Maybe you like women dressed in maid outfits?

Bondage?

Maybe you like foodplay?


And another question.... how does homosexuality stand in relation to global population control?

reply to post by Lionhearte

Oh, of course, that's IF I lived under the law, like the Jews. I'm a Christian. Jesus fulfilled the law for me, and forgave all of my sins, and the sins of anyone reading this, whether you believe in him or not. Of course, he can't forgave the unforgivable sin - which is not believing in Christ.

WRONG! I don't believe that Jesus died on the cross for my sins. I don't believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection. I can say that, preach that and shout it from the roof tops, and I could be totally wrong, and still be forgiven and go to your heaven, although, I don't want to, thanks very much.

Jesus said:

Mark 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Now see, everybody has the "holy spirit." It is the spark of life and consciousness that everyone is born with. I believe that what Jesus is saying here is that if anyone deliberately lies to, deceives, tricks or enslaves a person into oblivion, commits crimes against the spirit of humanity, and will not be forgiven, but punished.

The RCC and governments are guilty of this.

reply to post by Lionhearte


The main group I see saying that LGBT's are not born that way are Christians, like Christians can tell us anything about human sexuality...

I happen to support Christian abstinence programs, as someday the dogma will come to a abrupt halt!

Originally posted by Lionhearte
Now, here's where I'm confused. You get your genetics from your BIOLOGIC parents, correct? So.. how do homosexuals "receive" these supposed "inherent" genes.. if they got them from HETEROSEXUAL parents?

It is a proven fact, undeniably so, that there has never, EVER been a case of a homosexual couple having a biologic child - they can adopt, sure. But that child got his genetics from his BIOLOGICAL parents.

So, LGBTs and LGBT defenders, please answer this for me - where does the gene come from that makes a homosexual "born that way"?

If you really believe that gay people are not a naturally occurring part of the human species then you must be extremely clueless. If sexuality is a choice then by default it must mean that straight people choose to be straight; obviously this is an extremely outrageous statement which serves to highlight how ridiculous it is to assert that gay people choose their sexuality. If you can't get your head around this concept then it's pointless trying to convince you otherwise, as you lack basic abstract reasoning skills and will have difficulty grasping alternative forms of sexuality. A recent study has shown that homophobes lack abstract reasoning skills, so this impairment may apply to you.

i am straight. never had a homosexual thought towards another man. even from a very early age, i liked women. now let's go in the mnd of a gay or lesbian. why would it be any different? i remember when puberty hit. i didn't go "gee, the captain of the football team is hot, yet i think i will go after the pretty cheer leader." i was born straight. i didn't "choose." why do you think that it is different for others? that is very ignorant thinking.

I have an odd question. Why is it that when the topic of sin comes up it is typically what christians think about the sin of homosexuality? Why are there not deep discussions about things like Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, and Pride?

It seems as though I know a lot of Christians who will pick and choose which sin to vilify and which ones they choose to ignore. But it seems as though the ones they ignore are more likely to be ones they are guilty of and the ones they focus on are ones other people are doing. It's easy to pick on sexuality sins because it fits with the mentality of 'hey I'm straight, I'm not sinning'. They can pick apart a sin of homosexuality because they know there is no chance they would ever be homosexual. But hey if we were to discuss maybe gluttony then can you even imagine the amount of sinners we would have to make excuses for then? LMAO

reply to post by Lionhearte


Acquired at birth != genetic

There are far too many incorrect assumptions in your question to even begin to answer. I think revealing one is sufficient.

-rrr

I am gay. And I don't think I was born that way. But then to understand that, you'd have to: 1. Not be stuck on an antiquated religion and start thinking for yourself. 2. Understand that I don't think heterosexuals were born that way either.

This in no way means that anyone feels or remembers consciously choosing to be gay or straight. It's a social process to choose either one. In current Western culture, it is a societal norm to be fully heterosexual. And that is what most infants and children grow up with and accept on very unconscious levels. They see it, they feel it, and it is unconsciously and consciously communicated to them at a very early age. In the same way that a child's early experience might be instrumental in that child growing up to be a serial killer or a president, so their sexuality is formed similarly

Have there been cultures where homosexuality or bisexuality were an accepted norm? Yes. And what happened to those born into THOSE cultures - the same thing: they ended up like everyone else in their culture, some of them gay, some of them straight, some of them bi.

In this culture we're currently in, while more and more people are accepting of homosexuals, it's still a culture that roots itself in pure heterosexuality being the norm. The heterosexual people who have no problems with gays, who accept them and love them (and no, OP that doesn't include you) are still one-dimensional in that while being accepting of homosexuality in others, they would never accept it in themselves. They were taught not to - and this information was handed to them, as I said consciously and unconsciously long ago and there is no reason they shouldn't be this way.

What happens to homosexuals, again - in this present culture - is that they are also very one-dimensional, but in an opposite way. They did something rare. When being handed this information through various unconscious and conscious methods, they rejected it. The reasons are too many to go into here. Suffice it to say that they rejected pure heterosexuality. Now, what's left over to them as a choice, APPEARS to them to be only the complete other side: homosexuality. Gays are rejecting heterosexuality, but not sexual exclusivity. Being one or the other is taught - but certainly not being both. Therefore homosexuals, while rejecting part of the conditioning, haven't rejected all of it. Thus they end up just as one-dimensional as heterosexuals.

It's bisexual people who are the true pioneers, who have rejected both those morays and are thus able to experience the full multi-dimensionality of their personalities, their sexualities and their identification with what constitutes masculinity and femininity.

90% of what we consider to be innate, inborn characteristics of masculinity and femininity are actually cultural. There have been and still are cultures where women rule, and actually embody much of what we think of as masculine behavior. Many characteristics of what our present culture considers to be masculinity or femininity are purely fabricated by us. This is one of the reasons homosexuals tend to make caricatures out of masculine and feminine roles - the dressing up in drag and plastered in make up, heels and lipstick, or the wearing of leather, chains and motorcycles - because they want to claim some kind of identify somewhere in all of these perplexing roles that they on the one hand have rejected, but on the other hand seek, if only to fit in somehow.

Gay men don't lisp from any genetic predisposition. It's an affectation they adopt in response to their inner reaction to what masculinity or femininity is supposed to mean in our culture.

There is NO gay gene. There is NO proof whatsoever that there is any genetic component to being gay. There are extremely rare cases of chromosome abnormalities such as a women being born with XXY (women are XX), and a man being born with XXY (men are XY) - X being female chromosome and Y being male. But aside from these RARE abnormalities, there is no gay gene. Homosexuals would like there to be one since it proves that they were 'born this way." If there is one, it had NOT been proven or found. The hullabaloo in the 90s about that was based on SPECULATION that never went anywhere. All the scientists know this; it's the media that never let it go.

Human consciousness, personalities, experience, sexuality is far too complex to be dependent on a gene.

In our current society, there is nothing wrong with being fully straight or fully gay (I'm fully gay), but both are contingent upon what we accept now, and both are ultimately highly one-dimensional and psychologically exclusive and limiting.

Hatred for homosexuals will always exist until ultimately, society can see the openness of human consciousness, until both straights and gays understand their innate bisexuality. And though I make these assertions about unconsciously choosing, do YOU remember choosing to be straight?

Every fetus begins life as female. This hasn't been proven on Humans as far as I know, but it has been proven buy studying rats. Therefore, there is a high possibility that it's the same for humans. Call it a mutation, like any other mutation only difference is, the person was born with the wrong body.

Now that's just a point for those who seriously believe they are gay and have no choice. Enough to go out of their way for a gender change, like that woman on Mrs. Universe, remember her?

As for the rest it comes down to either a choice of their own or confusion.

Take an ugly person for example; realizes his/her chances of finding someone for themselves are very slim and like most of us humans, we're afraid to be alone, let alone die alone. So if they can, they'll settle for the opposite sex just to feel loved and not end up alone.

Take an attractive person for example, realizes that everybody who falls over them only wants them because of their looks/body and uses them without really "loving" them. Along the lines, these people will often become bisexual in order to find out what it's like to be loved, and if they can't find someone who loves them for who then I can seem them making the choice of being gay.

I'm sure there are a few more other reasons out there. Speaking of other reasons, I was molested by a much older man when I was younger. I was never confused about my preference while growing up and I dated quite a few women as well.

Like women, they tend to think other attractive women are pretty or beautiful. Sadly, the same thing goes for men as well whether you all want to admit it or not. There's nothing wrong with judging the same sex by how they look.

-----My post seem to have went to another thread----
This was the original I talked about, so I just copied and paste it from the other thread.

Originally posted by flyingkiwi
The same way red heads are "born that way"

errr no. the red head gene is a recessive one that is not found in everyone.. the way one is created by two non red heads is if they both have the recessive gene.. I think its something like a 1 in 4 chance that they will have a kid with red hair. this has been proven in biology.. hell i even remember learning it in year 11 biology. As far as we know there is no "gay gene". It just happens.

The reason is no one in their right mind would choose to be gay. Why would they? To face the hatred, being shunned by family? The only logical explanation that remains is they are born with it.

/thread.

Originally posted by MaMaa

Originally posted by Garfee
Why does the OP author care so much about who anyone else has sex with?

I often wonder why ANYONE cares about other peoples sexuality. People need to keep their damned nose in their own bedrooms and stop worrying about who is what and why.

Another excellent post. About 20 of meaningless pages of posts before you find a gem like this.

I agree. I care about this about as much as I care if a rape victim gets an abortion, not at all. I just find the ignorance funny at times.

So, OP, question for you. If sexuality is a choice, when did you wake up and say "I'm going to be straight!"? I'm sincerely curious.

its not genetic. if it was genetic, Darwin's ideas of natural selection tell us that, by the very fact a homosexual couple CANNOT have offspring, means the 'homosexual gene' cannot not be passed down through any descendents and would inevitably disappear from the gene pool.

Originally posted by EddieCusak
its not genetic. if it was genetic, Darwin's ideas of natural selection tell us that, by the very fact a homosexual couple CANNOT have offspring, means the 'homosexual gene' cannot not be passed down through any descendents and would inevitably disappear from the gene pool.

What if a persons thoughts somehow "auto-corrected" their genes into into believing he/she was really gay because of the choice they made for whatever reason it may be? We're beginning to see and realize that our thoughts are more powerful than we really believe. If that was the case, you wouldn't need two gays to make a gay.

People don't choose to be straight OP, just like people don't choose to be homosexual. It just happens.

I'm straight, and I certainly don't recall waking up one day and saying "Yeah, I think I'm going to be straight when I'm older."

reply to post by Debunkology


Yes, you are correct. Like I stated though, I used this as a referance becouse of the simplic aspect and considering the research was done in the 1940's (one of the first, give or take) & that the Kinsey Institution is still apart of Indian University I would think there on the right track at least of correcting the original flaws. It's also quite solid to say that there is alot of unknowns about sexuality even today. There are over 200 different scales since, but even those are not perfect. The "scale" point, is what I wanted to draw attention to, not the person. Becouse alot of arguments against homosexuality tend to place the concept of us vs them, instead of seeing a connection between. The OP original point dealt with the concept of a homosexual gene, & "Born this way" my statement is to highlight the idea that it's alot more complicated then that. (I hope that clears it up for ya )

I've always liked girls.
I don't get a long with men very well.

As a gay man I am asked by a lot of people if I chose to be gay or if I was born to be gay.

No one can just up and choose to be gay. You are or you aren't. Now Bisexuality is an entirely different subject matter when it comes to choice.

I know that I was born this way because its how I've been my whole life. I am actually a Pentecostal Preacher's Kid, so I grew up with the mentality that it was wrong to be gay. This mentality actually had me so confused because I wasn't attracted to girls like the other boys and even attempted suicide which led to me being in the hospital. I spent the rest of my teenage years being angry and even treated my family horribly, just because I knew who I was but I was taught that it was wrong.

I'm 28 now and I have left the Christian religion behind and categorize myself as a Pagan. I am out to everyone I know and have lost family members because they don't want to have anything to do with a homosexual for a relative.

There is NO cure for being gay. It's not an easy lifestyle so I don't know why anyone would choose to be gay. Would I want to be straight so I can fit in better with society? No. I love who I am and nothing is going to change that.

I have seen an increase in Christian views of homosexuality going to negative to positive response. Remember, the Bible wasn't written by God but by man. Man can say whatever he wants to get his way.