Ron Paul - IMO

Originally posted by RSF77

Originally posted by Another10Pin
Over the years, I have observed a pattern ...

Just because you think you have observed a pattern doesn't mean anything, everything is always changing in different ways.

edit on 25-4-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)

So, if on January 1st, every four years, for 30 plus years, your car windshield is broken out, you wouldn't see a pattern?

reply to post by swoopaloop

I agree with you to some extent.
Actually I almost completely agree with you. The only thing we disagree on is the fact that if Ron Paul gets elected there will be change. I haven't witnessed as many broken promises from Presidents as you have so it could just be personal naivety, but I honestly believe that there will be changes made by Paul if he was President.

I don't know what to tell you. Two questions, maybe. If Ron Paul is legit, do you think that Congress is going to work with him? ... and ... If he is elected, and Congress does work with him, how would you interpret that?

Let's say he did become President, and decided not to end the fed. If that happened, I think I would never actually believe another Presidential Candidate ever again. I just feel that there would be realistic and somewhat drastic change with him as President. I also feel that the drastic change is necessary and is a step in the right direction. Not only for American, but for the World.

Well, you better get used to presidential candidates not fulfilling their promises ...

Reagan ... Smaller Government ... Taxpayer Revolution ... Result? Larger Government ... Trickle Down Taxes ... Gutting of finalcial industry regulations .... A behemouth of a military (800 ship navy) ... multiple military excursions ... Iran Contra ... Service Sector economy ... etc, etc, etc.

Bush I ... Read my lips, no new taxes ... New World Order ... A kindler and gentler Nation ... Result? New Taxes ... Gulf War ... continued gutting of financial regulations ... continue Reagans(?) policies ... etc, etc, etc.

Clinton ... Don't stop thinking about tommorrow (LOL) ... Result? the guy actually administered over THE economic boom, unbelievable ... by continuing to gut financial regulations and maintaining those trickle down policies ... Somalia (Black Hawk Down) ... Rawanda (Genocide)

Bush II, Obama .... you probably know whats happened under those two ... and these things started before Reagan, I suspect.

Not one of them have ever fulfilled their duty as president as far as I am concerned. And they will lie all the way to the office.

I was a kid during the 1973 oil embargo, but I don't forget it. Gas rationing, odd days and even days depending on your license plate number. Do you realize that since that time, there has not been any major change in our energy policies?

Deregulation of the financial sector? S&L crisis, Tech bubble, Housing bubble, Financial collapse, couple of recessions, and then the big one. And that's not all ... and they continue to deregulate or fail to enforce existing regulations.

Taxation? The righ get richer and the poor get poorer.

Maybe Ron Paul is the real deal, I don't know. But I don't believe it.

An example is that apparently, Obama has signed a law that took away Free Speech rights around Secret Service protected individuals. That's a genuine contradiction to the American Constitution. I don't think Paul, as President, would sign such a document. That's the change I hope for in Paul as President. Going from a man that does not care about personal American liberties and would sign such document, to going to a man that would not sign it.

All I can tell you is that since 911, there has been an erosion of civil liberties and I don't like it. This is not the country I was born into or the country where I was raised.


My original post was not designed to sway someone to 'not' vote for Ron Paul. I just did some looking around and gave an opinion to what I found. I would never try and convince someone to vote or not vote for someone. It's not my place. It's just everyones 'duty' to vote.

I like his strategic vision, I just don't like that budget ... ergo, the policies he will try to enact to get us there. That's all. My opinion.

If I am trying to convince anyone of anything, it would be to stop listening to the radical party leaders, they have divided this nation and wreaked havoc on the government. I want to find moderates and associate with them. As I said before, we have a diverse society/culture ... we have to make accomodations ... we have to compromise. And I would like to see those regulations brought back and imposed on the financial sector. What they have done is criminal. Bastards should be in jail.

I don't like the word conspiracy. To me in cannotes a group of people working in secret for 'evil' intent. I really don't know whether or not there is a conspiracy. I more like the word collusion. Although synonymous, to me it cannotes a group of people working in secret for 'financial' gain ... and that's probably where I am at this point.

Anyway, thanks again for responding and reading my rants.

the guy is far from 'establishment'

that is where you lost credibility in your OP.

And in all of your 'research' you just happened to conveniently miss his 30+ impeccable track record in congress.


votesmart.org

Go check our Ron Paul there and match his voting record with his speeches in that time, the information is all on the web. Here is your chance to really prove you do your research. Otherwise, just stop with the analogies to Bush and Obama.

You may think you are the first to stumble upon these ideas but trust me, you are not. Many have tried to put down Ron Paul on ATS, equally many have failed.

Originally posted by eLPresidente
the guy is far from 'establishment'

that is where you lost credibility in your OP.

And in all of your 'research' you just happened to conveniently miss his 30+ impeccable track record in congress.


votesmart.org

Go check our Ron Paul there and match his voting record with his speeches in that time, the information is all on the web. Here is your chance to really prove you do your research. Otherwise, just stop with the analogies to Bush and Obama.

You may think you are the first to stumble upon these ideas but trust me, you are not. Many have tried to put down Ron Paul on ATS, equally many have failed.

edit on 25-4-2012 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)

Do you guys get paid to sit on ATS and pump out this political rhetoric? If so, can you get me a job?

reply to post by Another10Pin


My biggest issue with this thread is that you're using your cynicism with politics as an excuse for not really giving Ron Paul a fair look. Just because other politicians in the past have been fake and haven't lived up to their word doesn't mean he can't. If his treatment by the media isn't a clear evidence that he isn't a part of the establishment then I don't know what is. The media and the establishment are so intertwined that they only report on things they deem important. Why don't you think they deem him important? The answer is obvious....it's because he goes against everything they stand for --- specifically our system of perpetual debt and war.

Another issue I have is that you seem to think his policies won't work. They are the policies our country was founded on. The main reason we moved away from the UK was to escape their government and the system of centralized banks and perpetual debt. We came here to be a "free" society with limited government that was meant to serve the people instead of banking interests. And look where we are now? Ron Paul wants to bring us back there. Change won't happen if you just stay pissed off at the past the rest of your life....

Also thanks for your thread. It's nice that people (even if I don't agree with their views) are willing to have intelligent discussions about them. So I commend you for being willing to "take a beating" from everyone here :-)

I think Ron Paul will be able to get more accomplished than any other political candidate for one simple reason. He cannot be bought and he will go directly to the American people for support. This is why both parties fear him so much. Look what he has done during this election cycle. Look at how many people come out for him and avidly support him. People are tired of being lied to by politicians. He speaks the plain and simple truth, and it is so obvious and refreshing.

He will succeed for the simple reason that he will out every politician who stands in his way to the American people. He will out their voting records and he will out them when they impede him from making the necessary changes. He is more than capable of getting support where it matters and giving power back to the American people.

He is busting their game wide open. Look the emperor has no clothes... Yep it is obvious to those of us who are paying attention. Ron Paul is telling us the radical truth.

Originally posted by Another10Pin

Originally posted by eLPresidente
the guy is far from 'establishment'

that is where you lost credibility in your OP.

And in all of your 'research' you just happened to conveniently miss his 30+ impeccable track record in congress.


votesmart.org

Go check our Ron Paul there and match his voting record with his speeches in that time, the information is all on the web. Here is your chance to really prove you do your research. Otherwise, just stop with the analogies to Bush and Obama.

You may think you are the first to stumble upon these ideas but trust me, you are not. Many have tried to put down Ron Paul on ATS, equally many have failed.

edit on 25-4-2012 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)

Do you guys get paid to sit on ATS and pump out this political rhetoric? If so, can you get me a job?

So I take it your response means that you are unwilling to take a look at his history and come to a logical conclusion based on his actions and not merely what you assume with no research done?

OK, so I was right.

You have no credibility...of course I didn't doubt myself when I made that statement originally.


P.S. I wish I could be paid to make the sense that I do...that would be nice.

Originally posted by seberhar
reply to post by Another10Pin

 

My biggest issue with this thread is that you're using your cynicism with politics as an excuse for not really giving Ron Paul a fair look. Just because other politicians in the past have been fake and haven't lived up to their word doesn't mean he can't. If his treatment by the media isn't a clear evidence that he isn't a part of the establishment then I don't know what is. The media and the establishment are so intertwined that they only report on things they deem important. Why don't you think they deem him important? The answer is obvious....it's because he goes against everything they stand for --- specifically our system of perpetual debt and war.

Another issue I have is that you seem to think his policies won't work. They are the policies our country was founded on. The main reason we moved away from the UK was to escape their government and the system of centralized banks and perpetual debt. We came here to be a "free" society with limited government that was meant to serve the people instead of banking interests. And look where we are now? Ron Paul wants to bring us back there. Change won't happen if you just stay pissed off at the past the rest of your life....

Also thanks for your thread. It's nice that people (even if I don't agree with their views) are willing to have intelligent discussions about them. So I commend you for being willing to "take a beating" from everyone here :-)

edit on 26-4-2012 by seberhar because: Spelling error

You call the post above yours, intelligent discussion?

reply to post by eLPresidente


If I initially misconstrued the intent of your post, my appologies. Apparently, seeing the post that followed this one referencing 'intelligent conversation', you actually did read through the thread. Very few responded to this thread, and as I previously stated, I really didn'y expect meny to repond. However, I did not expect the type of 'hit and run' posting that the RP supporters posted. The only person the engaged me regularly throughout the thread was 'swoopaloop'. So when you originally posted what you did, I assumed that you were just another RP supporter doing a 'hit and run'. Particularly with your statment that I had 'no credibility'. IObviously, I was wrong, as you have returned and you have my appology.

In regardds to your referring to RP's 30+ year voting history, does that not make him part of the establishment ... willingly or unwillingly? I understand that RP has been a maverick, so was McCain, but they broke him.

In regards to my 'credibility'. What type of credibility were you looking for? I am an American citizen, I served ten years in the military, I have voted since I was of age. I have formed an opinion and I voiced it. It does not mean that my opinion is not subject to change ... I wish I could say that for others. I see this as a problem as well ... people grab hold of somethinng and won't let go, no matter what. And everything is confrontational. It's part of the polarization.

At any rate, again, my appologies.

Thank you for responding to my thread.

Originally posted by seberhar
reply to post by Another10Pin

My biggest issue with this thread is that you're using your cynicism with politics as an excuse for not really giving Ron Paul a fair look. Just because other politicians in the past have been fake and haven't lived up to their word doesn't mean he can't. If his treatment by the media isn't a clear evidence that he isn't a part of the establishment then I don't know what is. The media and the establishment are so intertwined that they only report on things they deem important. Why don't you think they deem him important? The answer is obvious....it's because he goes against everything they stand for --- specifically our system of perpetual debt and war.

You are right. I am very cynical of the government and politics. It's just very hard not to see past what has happened through the years. As I said, maybe RP is the real deal ... but if you get hoodwinked enough, you just get cycnical and skeptical. I can't help that. Do you really blame me?

I also agree, the media isn't treating him very well, or with any legitimacy. I won't argue that point. I think they don't deem him as important because I think they know he is not going to win the election.

Also, I just want to reiterate. I agree with his strategic obectives. I just don't like the budget.

Another issue I have is that you seem to think his policies won't work. They are the policies our country was founded on. The main reason we moved away from the UK was to escape their government and the system of centralized banks and perpetual debt. We came here to be a "free" society with limited government that was meant to serve the people instead of banking interests. And look where we are now? Ron Paul wants to bring us back there. Change won't happen if you just stay pissed off at the past the rest of your life....

I don't think I said his policies won't work. I think that his budget proposal will reduce the deficit and debt. I just think it is going to do it at the expense of the poor and working class, and once again, give tax breaks to those that don't need them. Can 'I' prove it? No. But there economists who would argue as I do. And I know there are also people and economists who would argue for it, just as you are doing.

I don't what to get into the historical reasons for the founding of our country.

I am pissed off, this is true. But more importantly I am disillusioned and I don't think that can be fixed. I am getting to long in the tooth, I have seen the American citizen screwed over to many times, and I have come to the belief that we, the people, no longer have control over our government or destiny.

Ultimately, that was the point of my post. It's only going to get worse ... ergo, 'What is to come'.

Also thanks for your thread. It's nice that people (even if I don't agree with their views) are willing to have intelligent discussions about them. So I commend you for being willing to "take a beating" from everyone here :-)

edit on 26-4-2012 by seberhar because: Spelling error

No, actually, I want to thank you. Although I engaged with swoopaloop, you were the only person that came in here and challenged me regarding my cynicism (based on my historical view) and how that relates to my view of Ron Paul. I am glad you did it.

Thanks again. Sorry for any spelling or grammatical errors. I am trying to respond during a break.