Ron Paul - IMO

Ron Paul is the only politician on Capitol Hill (either Senate or Congress) that lobbyists know that they should avoid like the plague.

They know to not even waste their time with an appointment, as he won't take any lobbying money from anyone, ever.

If I were in the USA, this would be the single biggest reason for Ron Paul getting my vote.

Originally posted by Another10Pin
If we go to war, the politicians should be on the front lines.

I wish I wish I wish... to see some of those weasely bastards don armor and fight hand to hand.

I am a moderate, I guess a dying breed. This country is so polarized it's almost to the point of retardation. There has to be compromise so that the best interests of the country can met, not an ideology, political party, or corporate greed.

I totally agree... I completely despise bipartisanism...
It makes us look like fools, having two majorities with no means of an alternative perspective.
But the parties are like everything else, conformity, need for association, and powerhungry leeches trying to justify their actions through bull# policies to "protect us from ourselves"..
I don't think anything can be fixed until we stop basing EVERY SINGLE F****** DECISION ON WHAT PARTY IT REPRESENTS.....
None, none, none of their arguments are rational, and they are like schoolchildren.

I would like to have Congress lined up on a sidewalk and Schwinn down every last one of them..

Originally posted by Another10Pin

Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Originally posted by Another10Pin
Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Can you be more specific regarding which of RP's ideas you don't like and when you say "You won't like it" ?

As I said, I like 'most' of his ideas. I just don't like how he thinks he is going to take us there. Specifically, the budget. I don't like were he is cutting and I don't like the tax cuts.

...and I'm having a hard time understanding why you think Ron is "part of the establishement".

Because of my life experience. In the end, they are all part of the establishment.

I have to disagree with your assesment of RP being like John the Baptist paving the way for someone else to enact his policy ideas.

That's ok. It's your right to disagree with my analogy.

I think Ron's ideas fly in the face of the establishment and "they" will do whatever it takes to keep him out of the Whitehouse. To the establishment, Ron's ideas are dangerous because his policy changes would put the power back in the hands of the people.

So did Obama's.

edit on 2012/4/25 by Another10Pin because: (no reason given)

Well... you really didn't answer any of my questions in a direct manner; quite like a seasoned politician really.

...and honestly. Ron Paul's supporters are more "grass roots" than Obama's ever were. I always thought that Obama was part of the establishment, he was just a different facet of it. Ron is obviously not part of the establishement. Your opinions lead me to believe that you have some other agenda rather than what you claim.....

Believe what you want and say what you want. I posted an opinion, it is mine, and I have a right to that opinion. Your suggestion that I have 'some other agenda' is more than amusing.

I'm glad you're amused..


....I am too.

If he is not PART of the establishment then he is certainly a TOOL (possibly unbeknownst to himself) of the establishment. They are using him to measure the extent of the discontent in the country.

Originally posted by swoopaloop

Can you explain a little better as to why you think that Ron Paul's budget ideas will help the rich and hurt the poor?

First, I would like you to know I believe in representative government and free-market capitalism.

That being said, I do not believe in a representative government in which there is so much influence by the business community via PAC's, lobbyist's, and other special interests via campaign finance ... particularly at the expense of it's citizens. I also am NOT for un-restrained free-markets. From what I know of American business history, the results are usually disasterous.

Regarding Ron Paul's budget, in general terms, I like his idea to reduce the deficits and debt. Again, I just don't like where the cuts are being made and who is the biggest benificiary of the tax cuts.

Specifically, Medicaid, SCHIPS, food stamps, child nutrition, the Department of Health and Senior Services, and the Department of Education. In general, I am opposed to ANY cuts to social programs at this time. Do they need to be revamped? You betcha. Our entire attitude as a country relating to social programs needs to be revamped. Do you think I want to pay to support some woman who has five kids and no job? No, I don't. But I also don't want to see them living in squalor, malnourished, and uneducated.

I also do not think his tax cuts are appropriate. The only tax cuts that should be made are to those at the lowest end of the economic spectrum. Capital gains and dividends? No. Estate and gift tax? No. Bush Era tax cuts? No. Corporate tax cuts? Sure. Let me ask you a question. Which segment of society do you think is going to benefit most by his proposed tax cuts? The person making 15k, or 30k? Or the person making 150k, or 300k?

This is why I believe that his budget will hurt the poor and enrich the wealthy. Program cuts that are detrimental to the poor, tax cuts that are beneficial to the wealthy. Why not just cut that defense buget in half, leave the other programs in place, and go from there? Along with the other changes he wants, that I agree with, that should be enough to continue on with his projected declines in deficits and debt.

Look, I believe in a graduated tax system. I just believe in one that is simplified and appropriate. Just as with government. Do I want smaller government? I don't know. I want a government that is appropriately sized to meet the needs of it's citizens and business community, one that is not so wasteful and corrupt. Does that mean that it is smaller than our current government? I don't know, but I don't think so.

I can't tell you the last time I saw anyone from my government, or any government official that was doing what was appropriate for the country ... not their party, not some corporation, and not themselves ... for the country. But I keep see those bastards cow-towing to every business interest group that can line their pockets.

I want a government that is representative of it's citizens, meets their needs that we have agreed to as a society, and promotes business and REGULATED free-markets. Do I think Ron Paul's budget will accomplish this? Nope.

As I said, most of his ideology I can pretty much agree with or tolerate. Abortion? Yes. Second Amendment? Yes. Secure the borders? Yes. Immigration? Yes Bring the troops home? Yes ... Conditionally. Keep our noses out of other peoples business? Yes. End the Fed? Yes. Energy Independence? Yes.

How does one get there?

Not at the expense of the poor or working-class Americans, and certainly not so that the already wealthy will financially benefit. Haven't they been sated enough?

But hey, don't worry, I am probably going to end of voting for him anyway, for a variety of reasons. One, and primarily, for thirty plus years I have have to settle for the lesser of the evils and I don't see this year being any different. It's like being served a plate of crap and asking which part of it you want to eat.

My original thread was my opinion. Even if I vote for him, I don't believe he will be elected. Like I said, I think he is just there to begin prepping the American mind for what comes next.

If he is elected, I don't believe for a second anything is going to change. And if his budget is enacted, I think the poor and working class will suffer, and the rich will eat like pigs. This is my cynical belief after watching this insanity for all of my adult life.

So those of you that came in here in order to get a vote for him can just go ahead and leave. To be honest, that's all I think your doing in here anyway. Not to present a persuasive argument, not to try and understand my concerns, or even validate them. Just more, polarized people trying to elect the next dill-hole.

Where did the moderates go? Damn, I miss them.

Originally posted by Another10Pin
I really don't think that you all are going to like 'what is to come'.

Please enlighten us, this is just the kind of stuff us nuts like to hear about. You sound like you know something the rest of us don't, let us in on it.

So... what is to come?

Ron Paul is a primer for the next establishment hitler and somehow they need all the liberty loving Ron Paul supporters to "elect" him in order for them to take over the world and make us a better police state?

Not really buying that idea.

reply to post by The Old American


Duly noted.

Originally posted by TheMindWar
reply to post by Another10Pin

 

Lol, what are you talking about?

Ok, lets change the train of thought here. What has happened to the US economy over the last 50 or so years? Its a damn shambles, and do people think that Mitt Romney is going to sort it out!!?

Mitt Romney is owned by the banks and in particular Goldman Sachs and JP morgan. This mean Romney will do as he is told by them, and its the damn banks that have screwed the USA!

What Paul will do is basically this, you know those 700+ American bases around the world sucking up your tax dollars, well most will be closed down and that huge amount of money will be tunnelled into manufacturing.

This will create massive amounts of jobs my freind. Hope that helps.

The only reason for all the bases was the soviet union which no longer exists!

And if Ron Paul doesnt get it quite right, well, I am sure he will do a damn better job than the banks committing massive derivative fraud to the tune of over $100 trillion dollars. Yes thats right, trillions. JP Morgan alone has a derivative fraud debt of $70 trillion which alone is apparently 5 times the GDP of the USA or there abouts.

Lol.

LOL ... What are YOU talking about?

700+ American bases? Can you refer me to a comprehansive listing of those bases? There have been many base closings since the end of the cold war. I don't know if you were around, but do you remember the term 'Peace Dividend'? I do.

I am well aware of the criminal activities of the financial sector.

Thanks for replying.

LoL

Originally posted by swoopaloop

Another thing i'm curious. Let's say for example that Ron Paul does become President. What do you think he will do as president?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

What do you think Obama will do as president next term?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

And what do you think Romney would do if he was president?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

Sorry, that's just what I think.

Originally posted by babybunnies

What you said about candidates promising stuff that makes them look good

Barack Obama 2008 "We need to have a provision that anyone receiving Government assistance do some sort of community service, there should be no free ride"

Barack Obama 2011 "I'm strongly against drug testing for social assistance recipients, it would make it too hard for those claiming social assistance"

They all have done it. Every single one, and the last is always worse than the one before. Every time you vote, it's like flipping a coin. The only problem is that with this coin, no matter if you get heads or tails, you get screwed. The policies never change.

Originally posted by babybunnies

Ron Paul is the only politician on Capitol Hill (either Senate or Congress) that lobbyists know that they should avoid like the plague.

They know to not even waste their time with an appointment, as he won't take any lobbying money from anyone, ever.

If I were in the USA, this would be the single biggest reason for Ron Paul getting my vote.

This may be true. It still doesn't reconcile the problems with his budget. It also brings this into question, what is he going to be able to accomplish without the cooperation of Congress?

Originally posted by PrincessofSwords

Originally posted by Another10Pin
If we go to war, the politicians should be on the front lines.

I wish I wish I wish... to see some of those weasely bastards don armor and fight hand to hand.

I am a moderate, I guess a dying breed. This country is so polarized it's almost to the point of retardation. There has to be compromise so that the best interests of the country can met, not an ideology, political party, or corporate greed.

I totally agree... I completely despise bipartisanism...
It makes us look like fools, having two majorities with no means of an alternative perspective.
But the parties are like everything else, conformity, need for association, and powerhungry leeches trying to justify their actions through bull# policies to "protect us from ourselves"..
I don't think anything can be fixed until we stop basing EVERY SINGLE F****** DECISION ON WHAT PARTY IT REPRESENTS.....
None, none, none of their arguments are rational, and they are like schoolchildren.

I would like to have Congress lined up on a sidewalk and Schwinn down every last one of them..

If the radicals would only shut up. They have completely gutted the middle ... middle class economically, moderates politically.

The parties are made up of people, it's the people in those parties doing this. They have cow-towed to the wealthy in this country, radicalized both parties, and divided the nation. They draw lines in the sand and say, "We will not cross this line" or "You will not cross this line".

Historically, American politicians are supposed to compromise. Our culture is varied, with differing ideologies. If there is no compromise, real and perceived offenses will build up until there are very few options that remain, and they are all confrontational in one form or another.

And your right, nothing will every be fixed. The system is rigged against us.

As far as what to do with Congress ... You have an interesting proposition.

Thanks for your response.

Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Originally posted by Another10Pin

Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Originally posted by Another10Pin
Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Can you be more specific regarding which of RP's ideas you don't like and when you say "You won't like it" ?

As I said, I like 'most' of his ideas. I just don't like how he thinks he is going to take us there. Specifically, the budget. I don't like were he is cutting and I don't like the tax cuts.

...and I'm having a hard time understanding why you think Ron is "part of the establishement".

Because of my life experience. In the end, they are all part of the establishment.

I have to disagree with your assesment of RP being like John the Baptist paving the way for someone else to enact his policy ideas.

That's ok. It's your right to disagree with my analogy.

I think Ron's ideas fly in the face of the establishment and "they" will do whatever it takes to keep him out of the Whitehouse. To the establishment, Ron's ideas are dangerous because his policy changes would put the power back in the hands of the people.

So did Obama's.

edit on 2012/4/25 by Another10Pin because: (no reason given)

Well... you really didn't answer any of my questions in a direct manner; quite like a seasoned politician really.

...and honestly. Ron Paul's supporters are more "grass roots" than Obama's ever were. I always thought that Obama was part of the establishment, he was just a different facet of it. Ron is obviously not part of the establishement. Your opinions lead me to believe that you have some other agenda rather than what you claim.....

Believe what you want and say what you want. I posted an opinion, it is mine, and I have a right to that opinion. Your suggestion that I have 'some other agenda' is more than amusing.

I'm glad you're amused..


....I am too.

Just out of curiosity, what do you believe to be my hidden agenda? Flags and Stars? Did you look at those? Support from my minions? How many posts do you see on this thread? Although, I think it is interesting to note who showed up and how quickly they arrived.

I just posted my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. I am fairly new here and really didn't expect any response, maybe a couple.

I guess if I did have a hidden agenda, is was hidden from me as well.

Maybe subconsciously I was hoping some other moderates would appear. But apparently, there are not to many moderates on this site, if at all.

Also, I am curious to understand how you could state that I did not answer your questions. I did, directly. Maybe you didn't like the responses, but to infer that 'I' am a 'seasoned politician'? I think you need to look at those who deserve the term, Ron Paul included. How long has he held his seat now? This is the problem and one of the reasons I claim he is associated with the establishment ... he is.

Originally posted by oghamxx
If he is not PART of the establishment then he is certainly a TOOL (possibly unbeknownst to himself) of the establishment. They are using him to measure the extent of the discontent in the country.

I don't know if he is aware or unaware of what is occuring. I only have an opinion. That opinion being that our government is no longer contolled by the citizens of this country, nor the politicians we elect.

Originally posted by RSF77

Originally posted by Another10Pin
I really don't think that you all are going to like 'what is to come'.

Please enlighten us, this is just the kind of stuff us nuts like to hear about. You sound like you know something the rest of us don't, let us in on it.

So... what is to come?

Ron Paul is a primer for the next establishment hitler and somehow they need all the liberty loving Ron Paul supporters to "elect" him in order for them to take over the world and make us a better police state?

Not really buying that idea.

edit on 25-4-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)

I don't 'know' anything other than what I have observed over the course of my life. When you have an anomaly, it's an anomaly. When you have a series of anomalies that are the same in appearance and function, you have a pattern.

Over the years, I have observed a pattern ... the dismantling of regulations related to the financial industry, tax breaks that are primarily designed for those who already have enough, a consistently broad and deep military buildup, foreign policies (specifically directed at the Middle East) that are precarious at best, refusal to wean this country from imported oil ... and in the most recent years, the erosion of civil liberties, an intolerance for non-violent dissent ... etc.

And with every administration, Republican or Democrat, those policies NEVER change. In fact, they are only strengthened.

This is why I claim 'what comes next'. Have you looked at that budget proposal? Yeah, it reduces the deficit and the debt, but look at how it's done. He is gutting social programs and giving tax breaks primarily to the wealthy. This man isn't going to be elected, not now. No one can be elected on that platform at this time. He is just a mouthpiece preparing the American public for the 'true austerity measures' that will come - that's 'what comes next'. He is just putting those ideas into our heads, so to speak, so when they do happen, maybe people won't freak out as much. It's called prepping the populace.

This leads me to conclude that there is an outside influence on our government. What it is specifically, I do not know, other than the wealthy/corporations. And I don't know their agenda, or even if they have one. If they do, I am certain I won't know what it is until after the fact. I am not a conspiracy theorist in that regard. Sorry.

Thanks for replying to my post.

Originally posted by Another10Pin
Originally posted by swoopaloop

Another thing i'm curious. Let's say for example that Ron Paul does become President. What do you think he will do as president?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

What do you think Obama will do as president next term?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

And what do you think Romney would do if he was president?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

Sorry, that's just what I think.

Okay right on. I see the consistency. How about the people ahead of the government. The Puppet masters. The Elite. "Tptb". What do you think they'll do and how will they react if Romney becomes President?
What about if Obama remains President?
And what about if Paul becomes President?

imo the government responds to "tptb". It's obvious that there's some sort of puppet masters to me. So when you say "the current course of (y)our government", I think more along the lines of "the current course of the Puppet Masters' agenda".

Originally posted by swoopaloop

Originally posted by Another10Pin
Originally posted by swoopaloop

Another thing i'm curious. Let's say for example that Ron Paul does become President. What do you think he will do as president?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

What do you think Obama will do as president next term?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

And what do you think Romney would do if he was president?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

Sorry, that's just what I think.

Okay right on. I see the consistency. How about the people ahead of the government. The Puppet masters. The Elite. "Tptb". What do you think they'll do and how will they react if Romney becomes President?
What about if Obama remains President?
And what about if Paul becomes President?

imo the government responds to "tptb". It's obvious that there's some sort of puppet masters to me. So when you say "the current course of (y)our government", I think more along the lines of "the current course of the Puppet Masters' agenda".

The only thing I can tell you, is that while observing the politics of this country over the years, I noticed a pattern develop. Refer to my post directly above this one. I have become disillusioned with our government and political structure. I have come to the conclusion that no matter what party controls the government, there will be no real changes and as a nation, we are heading for a dead end. I feel like the parties have been polarized and the nation has been divided ... divide and conquer. By whom, I don't profess to know, other than the wealthy ... all roads lead to them. I actually found this site, ATS, while googling for something related to this thought. I don't know whether or not there is a conspiracy and I am not claiming that there is a conspiracy. But I am claiming that the citizens of this country no longer have control of their destiny, and if they do not reject the radicals on both ends of the political spectrum and form a major political block of moderates ... there will never be any change no matter which party or which individual is in control or is elected. Just my opinion.

BTW - thanks for the response and keeping the dialogue free flowing. Much appreciated.

Originally posted by freakjive
reply to post by Another10Pin

 

I realize this is your opinion, but it's one that instantly loses credibility when you associate Ron Paul with the establishment.

Instead of reading the threads and opinions of others on forums and his site alike. Take an hour and research his voting record. I believe you will better understand why you are wrong (my opinion) regarding Dr. Paul.

This part is where you really blew it out of the water...

all you are ever going to see as candidates are the ilk of the Clinton's, Bush's, Obama, Paul, Reagan, Nixon

Seriously?? How do you even fathom including Paul in this group?

Ummm, because he IS part of the american political system, and wants to be the PRESIDENT of that system.

Not that tough...

Originally posted by Another10Pin

Originally posted by swoopaloop

Originally posted by Another10Pin
Originally posted by swoopaloop

Another thing i'm curious. Let's say for example that Ron Paul does become President. What do you think he will do as president?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

What do you think Obama will do as president next term?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

And what do you think Romney would do if he was president?

I think that there will be no change in policy or law, and if there is, those changes will continue to reflet the current course of our government. Support of corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthy, the poor and working people of this country will continue their decline.

Sorry, that's just what I think.

Okay right on. I see the consistency. How about the people ahead of the government. The Puppet masters. The Elite. "Tptb". What do you think they'll do and how will they react if Romney becomes President?
What about if Obama remains President?
And what about if Paul becomes President?

imo the government responds to "tptb". It's obvious that there's some sort of puppet masters to me. So when you say "the current course of (y)our government", I think more along the lines of "the current course of the Puppet Masters' agenda".

The only thing I can tell you, is that while observing the politics of this country over the years, I noticed a pattern develop. Refer to my post directly above this one. I have become disillusioned with our government and political structure. I have come to the conclusion that no matter what party controls the government, there will be no real changes and as a nation, we are heading for a dead end. I feel like the parties have been polarized and the nation has been divided ... divide and conquer. By whom, I don't profess to know, other than the wealthy ... all roads lead to them. I actually found this site, ATS, while googling for something related to this thought. I don't know whether or not there is a conspiracy and I am not claiming that there is a conspiracy. But I am claiming that the citizens of this country no longer have control of their destiny, and if they do not reject the radicals on both ends of the political spectrum and form a major political block of moderates ... there will never be any change no matter which party or which individual is in control or is elected. Just my opinion.

BTW - thanks for the response and keeping the dialogue free flowing. Much appreciated.

I agree with you to some extent.
Actually I almost completely agree with you. The only thing we disagree on is the fact that if Ron Paul gets elected there will be change. I haven't witnessed as many broken promises from Presidents as you have so it could just be personal naivety, but I honestly believe that there will be changes made by Paul if he was President.

Let's say he did become President, and decided not to end the fed. If that happened, I think I would never actually believe another Presidential Candidate ever again. I just feel that there would be realistic and somewhat drastic change with him as President. I also feel that the drastic change is necessary and is a step in the right direction. Not only for American, but for the World.

An example is that apparently, Obama has signed a law that took away Free Speech rights around Secret Service protected individuals. That's a genuine contradiction to the American Constitution. I don't think Paul, as President, would sign such a document. That's the change I hope for in Paul as President. Going from a man that does not care about personal American liberties and would sign such document, to going to a man that would not sign it.

ps. At the time of writing this I have not looked into the aforementioned "above" post. Will look into that shortly.

Originally posted by Another10Pin
Over the years, I have observed a pattern ...

Just because you think you have observed a pattern doesn't mean anything, everything is always changing in different ways.