Ron Paul - IMO

Not sure where to post this. If it gets moved, so be it.

I have been seeing many Ron Paul threads pop up on ATS. I thought I would come in for a look-see, particularly since I have lost all faith in both political parties, our government, and corporate America. I read a couple of the threads by Ron Paul supporters. They all seemed to be very excited about their candidate. So, I went to his website to see if I could get excited as well. I would agree with most of his positions. Most of them sound good. I also looked at his budget proposal ...

The thing about these candidates is they always put forth these ideas that sound good, but in the end, they never execute them, are unable to execute them, or ... if they do, the only people who end up on the short end of the stick is the average citizen. And that's what I think his budget and policies would do, help the rich and hurt the poor.

So, I came back this morning and read some more threads about Ron Paul. I wanted to see if I could, by reading other peoples arguments for and against the candidate, try to find something that would cause me to support him. A lot of contention on those threads. But I did manage to perform some distillation of my thoughts regarding Ron Paul, and the state of American politics in general.

I want to tell you what I am thinking about Ron Paul.

But before I do, just some general information about me. I have voted since I have been able to vote. I am an independent voter, I have no party affiliation - I vote for who I think is going to do best for the country, not their party. I have no religious affiliation - I am not an atheist, a Jew, a Christian, or a Muslim ... or any other religious, spiritual, or philisophical category. I come from a working class background, served in the military, and was fortunate (for some years) to obtain a well-paying job that took me to what would be considered the middle-class. Of course, that has all changed and I am back to my roots, so to speak. I have two associate degree's, working on a third - I am getting too old to go after an undergraduate or graduate degree, so this is probably the end of any formal education for me. I am married with grown children - well, semi-grown.

So, on to Ron Paul. The very last thread I read about him was this one, Ron Paul: Alone no more. And you know what? He isn't. But I don't think in the sense that the thread implied. If it is one thing that I have learned over the years, is that these candidates are never alone - from the establishment. They are, either overtly or covertly, always well ingrained and well attached to the establishment that is now running our country.



Furthermore, even though I believe that Ron Paul is a part of the establishment, I don't think that he will win the election ... he isn't meant to win the election. Because, I don't believe the time is quite right for his ideas. A few more years, yup. But not now. The impression I am getting is that right now, Ron Paul is just being used by the establishment to prep the minds of the American public for 'what is to come'. And even though there are many who are beginning to embrace his ideas, and many more will probably follow ... after they are enacted, I really don't think that you all are going to like 'what is to come'.

I am going to use an analogy. I don't really want to because of the religious overtones, and that is not what I am suggesting. But I am going to use it because, in a general way, it's appropriate.

As John the Baptist paved the way for the messiah ... Ron Paul is paving the way for a really dill-hole of a politician to follow him and actually enact that budget and those policies. Like I said, the goals may seem desirable, but just wait and see what is actually implemented and how that will effect our country.

You ain't gonna like it one bit.

This is only my opinion, of course. But we get to do things like this in politics, don't we?

Because we never know the facts until after the fact. And sometimes, not even then.

One more thing, if the moderates of this country (if there are any remaining) don't get together, end the polarizing effects of these political radicals, and take back our government ... all you are ever going to see as candidates are the ilk of the Clinton's, Bush's, Obama, Paul, Reagan, Nixon ... ad nauseum. And there will NEVER be any change in these policies, or the direction in which we are headed.

Sorry I am so cynical, but after 30 plus years of watching this crap, and researching what came before ... I am what I am.

Flame away. Stepping away from this for awhile. I will be back.

Can you be more specific regarding which of RP's ideas you don't like and when you say "You won't like it" ?

...and I'm having a hard time understanding why you think Ron is "part of the establishement".

I have to disagree with your assesment of RP being like John the Baptist paving the way for someone else to enact his policy ideas. I think Ron's ideas fly in the face of the establishment and "they" will do whatever it takes to keep him out of the Whitehouse. To the establishment, Ron's ideas are dangerous because his policy changes would put the power back in the hands of the people.

Thank you for your honesty!
I have thought a few of the same things..
But I have been a RP supporter, voted for him the last election...
Although he may be part of the "establishment", he's consistent..
That's what I look for, and he has not flip flopped, he will answer a question directly, whether you like the answer or not...
His stance on global policy "We should treat others as we would like to be treated."

I am all for a candidate that will not jump the gun to go to war.
Maybe he will live up to his words..
Maybe not...

Either way, we are much better off with him than Romney.

reply to post by Another10Pin


Nero fiddled while Rome burnt. Are you ready to watch the US burn. We can't afford to wait any longer. If we do there will be nothing left. If its not Ron Paul then who? You may sit on the sidelines and wait a few more years but the rest of us won't. Now is the time to finally do the right thing. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. People wonder why the world thinks Americans have all gone totally mad? This is a prime example.

reply to post by Another10Pin


I realize this is your opinion, but it's one that instantly loses credibility when you associate Ron Paul with the establishment.

Instead of reading the threads and opinions of others on forums and his site alike. Take an hour and research his voting record. I believe you will better understand why you are wrong (my opinion) regarding Dr. Paul.

This part is where you really blew it out of the water...

all you are ever going to see as candidates are the ilk of the Clinton's, Bush's, Obama, Paul, Reagan, Nixon

Seriously?? How do you even fathom including Paul in this group?

Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Can you be more specific regarding which of RP's ideas you don't like and when you say "You won't like it" ?

As I said, I like 'most' of his ideas. I just don't like how he thinks he is going to take us there. Specifically, the budget. I don't like were he is cutting and I don't like the tax cuts.

...and I'm having a hard time understanding why you think Ron is "part of the establishement".

Because of my life experience. In the end, they are all part of the establishment.

I have to disagree with your assesment of RP being like John the Baptist paving the way for someone else to enact his policy ideas.

That's ok. It's your right to disagree with my analogy.

I think Ron's ideas fly in the face of the establishment and "they" will do whatever it takes to keep him out of the Whitehouse. To the establishment, Ron's ideas are dangerous because his policy changes would put the power back in the hands of the people.

So did Obama's.

Originally posted by PrincessofSwords
Thank you for your honesty!
I have thought a few of the same things..
But I have been a RP supporter, voted for him the last election...
Although he may be part of the "establishment", he's consistent..
That's what I look for, and he has not flip flopped, he will answer a question directly, whether you like the answer or not...
His stance on global policy "We should treat others as we would like to be treated."

I am all for a candidate that will not jump the gun to go to war.
Maybe he will live up to his words..
Maybe not...

Either way, we are much better off with him than Romney.

Thank you for the courtesy in your post.

As far as consistency, yes, he appears to be very consistent ... I look for that as well. But historically, recent history anyways, it usually doesn't mean much.

I agree on the 'Golden Rule' as well. I think that no following that particular philosophy has gotten this country into alot of trouble.

I am not much for war. They should be avoided at all costs. If we go to war, the politicians should be on the front lines.

When I look at all three candidates, not one satisfies me. But none have since I started voting.

I am a moderate, I guess a dying breed. This country is so polarized it's almost to the point of retardation. There has to be compromise so that the best interests of the country can met, not an ideology, political party, or corporate greed.

Originally posted by redrose123
reply to post by Another10Pin

Nero fiddled while Rome burnt. Are you ready to watch the US burn. We can't afford to wait any longer. If we do there will be nothing left.

No. Agreed.

If its not Ron Paul then who?

There is absolutely no one on my radar that I feel is going to solve the problems of this country, including Ron Paul.

You may sit on the sidelines and wait a few more years but the rest of us won't.

Am I sitting on the sidelines? I thought interaction, persuasive argument, and voting were the fundamental attributes of a democratic style government. I believe I do those things. Thank you.

Now is the time to finally do the right thing.

The cynical part of me is thinking that the time has long past. But I hope I am wrong.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

Yes. I know. I have been watching the insanity for many years now.

People wonder why the world thinks Americans have all gone totally mad? This is a prime example.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

Originally posted by freakjive
reply to post by Another10Pin

I realize this is your opinion, but it's one that instantly loses credibility when you associate Ron Paul with the establishment.

Why? Because I have watched so many candidates run an election on a particular platform, only to see them never fulfill their campaign promises? Only to continue to maintain those policies already present, and to enhance them? No, I believe my cynicism has credibility.

Instead of reading the threads and opinions of others on forums and his site alike. Take an hour and research his voting record. I believe you will better understand why you are wrong (my opinion) regarding Dr. Paul.

I read the threads because I want to know the opinions of those for and against a particular candidate, ideology, policy, etc. I may find something worthwhile. Why do you read and post to those threads?

I don't know why you would suggest that that I not look at his website.

I will research his voting record. But I don't think that is going to change my view on his budget proposals.

This part is where you really blew it out of the water...

all you are ever going to see as candidates are the ilk of the Clinton's, Bush's, Obama, Paul, Reagan, Nixon

Seriously?? How do you even fathom including Paul in this group?

Well, in all actuality I probably shouldn't have, since all the others mentioned were not only presidential candidates, but were elected into office. At this time, Ron Paul is a candidate.

I guess it is just a reflection of my total contempt for the political establishment and politics in general at this point in time.

Suppose he got elected. Which of his many wonderful ideas/plans do you realistically expect will come to fruition?

Unless he can achieve wonderful changes solely by executive order he has to contend with 535 bought and paid for congressmen and the MSM. Frequent use of veto power will only reflect poorly on him.

IMO his election would be a certain road to a no change disaster.

Originally posted by oghamxx

Suppose he got elected. Which of his many wonderful ideas/plans do you realistically expect will come to fruition?

None.

Unless he can achieve wonderful changes solely by executive order he has to contend with 535 bought and paid for congressmen and the MSM. Frequent use of veto power will only reflect poorly on him.

Agreed.

IMO his election would be a certain road to a no change disaster.

I don't believe that anything is going to change, no matter who is elected. I don't believe that the people of this country control their destiny.

Originally posted by freakjive
reply to post by Another10Pin

 

I realize this is your opinion, but it's one that instantly loses credibility when you associate Ron Paul with the establishment.

Because the "Establishment" IS running the script. He doesn't have to be part of the establishment,to be MANIPULATED by it.

Can you explain a little better as to why you think that Ron Paul's budget ideas will help the rich and hurt the poor?

Originally posted by Another10Pin
Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Can you be more specific regarding which of RP's ideas you don't like and when you say "You won't like it" ?

As I said, I like 'most' of his ideas. I just don't like how he thinks he is going to take us there. Specifically, the budget. I don't like were he is cutting and I don't like the tax cuts.

...and I'm having a hard time understanding why you think Ron is "part of the establishement".

Because of my life experience. In the end, they are all part of the establishment.

I have to disagree with your assesment of RP being like John the Baptist paving the way for someone else to enact his policy ideas.

That's ok. It's your right to disagree with my analogy.

I think Ron's ideas fly in the face of the establishment and "they" will do whatever it takes to keep him out of the Whitehouse. To the establishment, Ron's ideas are dangerous because his policy changes would put the power back in the hands of the people.

So did Obama's.

edit on 2012/4/25 by Another10Pin because: (no reason given)

Well... you really didn't answer any of my questions in a direct manner; quite like a seasoned politician really.

...and honestly. Ron Paul's supporters are more "grass roots" than Obama's ever were. I always thought that Obama was part of the establishment, he was just a different facet of it. Ron is obviously not part of the establishement. Your opinions lead me to believe that you have some other agenda rather than what you claim.....

reply to post by swoopaloop


Sure. Give me a little time and I'll post what I see as a problem.

Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Originally posted by Another10Pin
Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Can you be more specific regarding which of RP's ideas you don't like and when you say "You won't like it" ?

As I said, I like 'most' of his ideas. I just don't like how he thinks he is going to take us there. Specifically, the budget. I don't like were he is cutting and I don't like the tax cuts.

...and I'm having a hard time understanding why you think Ron is "part of the establishement".

Because of my life experience. In the end, they are all part of the establishment.

I have to disagree with your assesment of RP being like John the Baptist paving the way for someone else to enact his policy ideas.

That's ok. It's your right to disagree with my analogy.

I think Ron's ideas fly in the face of the establishment and "they" will do whatever it takes to keep him out of the Whitehouse. To the establishment, Ron's ideas are dangerous because his policy changes would put the power back in the hands of the people.

So did Obama's.

edit on 2012/4/25 by Another10Pin because: (no reason given)

Well... you really didn't answer any of my questions in a direct manner; quite like a seasoned politician really.

...and honestly. Ron Paul's supporters are more "grass roots" than Obama's ever were. I always thought that Obama was part of the establishment, he was just a different facet of it. Ron is obviously not part of the establishement. Your opinions lead me to believe that you have some other agenda rather than what you claim.....

Believe what you want and say what you want. I posted an opinion, it is mine, and I have a right to that opinion. Your suggestion that I have 'some other agenda' is more than amusing.

reply to post by Another10Pin


Opinion noted. However, if you've really researched him like you say, you wouldn't think he was part of the establishment. Going solely on the fact that he's the only candidate, including our sitting "peace, love, hope and change" president, that is against the murders of the citizens of sovereign nations. There is no other candidate for president that won't gleefully and with blood in his eyes kill anyone just for their oil.'

That, my friend, is patently anti-establishment. Do more research.

/TOA

reply to post by Another10Pin


Lol, what are you talking about?

Ok, lets change the train of thought here. What has happened to the US economy over the last 50 or so years? Its a damn shambles, and do people think that Mitt Romney is going to sort it out!!?

Mitt Romney is owned by the banks and in particular Goldman Sachs and JP morgan. This mean Romney will do as he is told by them, and its the damn banks that have screwed the USA!

What Paul will do is basically this, you know those 700+ American bases around the world sucking up your tax dollars, well most will be closed down and that huge amount of money will be tunnelled into manufacturing.

This will create massive amounts of jobs my freind. Hope that helps.

The only reason for all the bases was the soviet union which no longer exists!

And if Ron Paul doesnt get it quite right, well, I am sure he will do a damn better job than the banks committing massive derivative fraud to the tune of over $100 trillion dollars. Yes thats right, trillions. JP Morgan alone has a derivative fraud debt of $70 trillion which alone is apparently 5 times the GDP of the USA or there abouts.

Lol.

Another thing i'm curious. Let's say for example that Ron Paul does become President. What do you think he will do as president?
What do you think Obama will do as president next term?
And what do you think Romney would do if he was president?

What you said about candidates promising stuff that makes them look good

Barack Obama 2008 "We need to have a provision that anyone receiving Government assistance do some sort of community service, there should be no free ride"

Barack Obama 2011 "I'm strongly against drug testing for social assistance recipients, it would make it too hard for those claiming social assistance"