Firemen Explosion Testimony

Originally posted by maxella1

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by maxella1

 

Yes this is a huge report that doesn't explain what Barry Jennings could have been stepping over and why to him it felt like it was people.
Thank you for the link.

No, it answers the question that you asked "why did the building collapse"? Now you know why the building collapsed. Who says Barry Jennings was stepping over anything? He didn't see anything and admits it only "felt" like he was stepping over something. Doesn't mean anything was actually there.

No Barry Jennings admits it felt felt like he was stepping over PEOPLE, not something !

edit on 23-4-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)

Last time I looked people are something. You really got to read your questions a little closer. You asked what he could be stepping over that to him "felt" like people and I noted that since he couldn't actually see what he felt he should be stepping over than it could be he was not actually stepping over anything.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by maxella1

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by maxella1

 

Yes this is a huge report that doesn't explain what Barry Jennings could have been stepping over and why to him it felt like it was people.
Thank you for the link.

No, it answers the question that you asked "why did the building collapse"? Now you know why the building collapsed. Who says Barry Jennings was stepping over anything? He didn't see anything and admits it only "felt" like he was stepping over something. Doesn't mean anything was actually there.

No Barry Jennings admits it felt felt like he was stepping over PEOPLE, not something !

edit on 23-4-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)

Last time I looked people are something. You really got to read your questions a little closer. You asked what he could be stepping over that to him "felt" like people and I noted that since he couldn't actually see what he felt he should be stepping over than it could be he was not actually stepping over anything.

Ok Hooper, it looks like you don't actually know what he was stepping over, just like me.

reply to post by maxella1

Ok Hooper, it looks like you don't actually know what he was stepping over, just like me.

Except you won't accept the possibility that he was stepping over nothing. Zero. For you, there has to be something there, but consider that there may have been nothing but his imagination.

reply to post by Fluffaluffagous

And yes, it is disgusting indeed that 9/11 deniers will believe what Griffin (?) quotemined cuz it's what they wanted to hear....

What is disgusting to me is that you feel that you know something for a fact when obviously you don't.
Griffin? No !

Firefighters talk about secondary explosives not Griffin!

Griffin and you are the same to me, do you understand?

It is indeed disgusting that you are saying that FDNY, the New York’s Bravest are clueless in the field of firefighting.

Why don't you show me where they explain what they actually meant by saying “definitely secondary explosions”, until then stop talking S**T.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by maxella1

 

Ok Hooper, it looks like you don't actually know what he was stepping over, just like me.

Except you won't accept the possibility that he was stepping over nothing. Zero. For you, there has to be something there, but consider that there may have been nothing but his imagination.

I will consider that there may have been nothing but his imagination.
Will you consider that there may have been in fact people that he was stepping over?

reply to post by maxella1

I will consider that there may have been nothing but his imagination.
Will you consider that there may have been in fact people that he was stepping over?

Uh, no. As far as I know, there is no record or claim of anyone in building 7 dying. Except for this gentleman's claim that he felt like he was stepping over people when he was being evacuated. So, no I can't accept it without some other consideration. On the other hand, since we have no record of mass deaths in building 7, we must accept the reality that Mr. Jenning's imagination was running on full steam, as is reasonable considering the events and situation.

reply to post by maxella1


I don't know why you are so hung up on Barry stepping over something. It is hardly a critical point for or against an "inside job".

The facts have been laid out to you. WTC 7 was evacuated before it suffered damage. There are no official fatalities for WTC 7; no relatives claiming their loved one was lost in it. We have some video of the Lobby after evacuation with nothing in sight at least that would have to be tripped over. No-one but Barry, including Michael Hess who was with him, has reported a similar experience.

The one possibility that you don't seem able to consider for some reason is that Barry was embellishing his story for dramatic effect. And years later, when he realised he was out on a limb with this, he backtracked as best he could.

As I said to you before; try walking across a room without looking down and your peripheral vision still tells you what is on the ground just ahead. And then imagine bumping things with your feet without a downward glance. The whole thing just does not ring true.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by maxella1

 

I will consider that there may have been nothing but his imagination.
Will you consider that there may have been in fact people that he was stepping over?

Uh, no. As far as I know, there is no record or claim of anyone in building 7 dying. Except for this gentleman's claim that he felt like he was stepping over people when he was being evacuated. So, no I can't accept it without some other consideration. On the other hand, since we have no record of mass deaths in building 7, we must accept the reality that Mr. Jenning's imagination was running on full steam, as is reasonable considering the events and situation.

How many people are still unaccounted for ?

Does that mean they never existed ?

Just because there's no record, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Were you surprised that they found bone fragments on roofs of other buildings last year?

It is obvious to me what your position is, and I will have to agree to disagree with you. Not because of some fantasy conspiracy like you like to say, but because we don't know 100% of what happened to these people.

I would change my position if you can show me where the New York's bravest, (and they are the elites in firefighting) explain what they meant by “definitely secondary explosions” actually were something other then explosives. But until then You, Griffin, and all the other characters that pretend to know the truth are nothing but a bunch of people that are full of you know what.

Originally posted by GenRadek

Originally posted by petrus4

You nearly had me, here...except for the specific pieces of testimony where witnesses describe themselves being blown backwards. A pancake effect from weakened beams (I still consider the jet fuel element as complete BS, but that is a seperate issue) would cause vertical momentum downwards; not horizontal blasting force.

You need something else to cause that.

Well lets look at it this way: an entire floor gives way impacting the floor below. What is in between the two floors? About an acre of air. Yes air, and it has to go somewhere. If you want to make a very simple representation of that, take a large hardcover book and drop it flat on the table. Where does that air go?

I can see this, yes. It also is reasonable to expect, perhaps, that a larger amount of that force might have ended up close to the base of the building, cumulatively speaking, as well.

But truthers dont want to listen or even consider simple explanations, because those "Rube-Goldberg" style conspiracies are far more fun.

I'm not going to criticise you for this...at least, not this time. Strong emotions are a problem for me as well. Some of us are just fiery.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by maxella1

 

I don't know why you are so hung up on Barry stepping over something. It is hardly a critical point for or against an "inside job".

The facts have been laid out to you. WTC 7 was evacuated before it suffered damage. There are no official fatalities for WTC 7; no relatives claiming their loved one was lost in it. We have some video of the Lobby after evacuation with nothing in sight at least that would have to be tripped over. No-one but Barry, including Michael Hess who was with him, has reported a similar experience.

The one possibility that you don't seem able to consider for some reason is that Barry was embellishing his story for dramatic effect. And years later, when he realised he was out on a limb with this, he backtracked as best he could.

As I said to you before; try walking across a room without looking down and your peripheral vision still tells you what is on the ground just ahead. And then imagine bumping things with your feet without a downward glance. The whole thing just does not ring true.

The purpose of my OP is to discuss the video in which firefighters describe in THEIR OWN WORDS what they lived through.

The immediate response from you “debunkers” was that they don't know what they are talking about. I find it unacceptable that any of you faceless screen names on a public forum start “imagining” what they are talking about, so I ask you to stop trying to prove what they witnessed with your assumptions. If you have footage of these firefighters explaining in their own words what it was that sounded like “secondary explosions” I would appreciate it very, very much, since unlike YOU, I’m here actually trying to find answers for MY questions.

Until you show me what I’m looking for, any assumptions, speculations, or straight up stupidity that you may need to urinate into this thread, is nothing but a bucket of urine

As far as I know it is still legal to have opinions, and that is why I don't care what are your personal opinions on this subject. You may believe, and express your opinion anyway you like. But I and no other person here searching for their own answers should be insulted, because whatever they believe is also only an opinion, JUST LIKE YOURS.

As far as Barry Jennings statements go, we will never know for sure what he was talking about.
So you may speculate what it was that he was stepping or not stepping over, but I will take it as what he said, and will not speculate. I read many books watched lot's of videos, conspiracy theory documentaries, official story documentaries, and none of that explains what has actually happened that day. It's all a conspiracy theory.

And for me the question of control demolition, shot down, or missile at the pentagon is secondary to the question of WHY and WHAT are they covering up. And I believe that once we find why and what, we will also know more about what happened on 9/11.

Originally posted by maxella1

But how could they be unaware of the magnitude of the damage in the front of the building? That's what caused all four sides of the building to drop! it should be noticeable, don't you think?
You see that is the problem for me... It has to be one or the other;
They checked and cleared the whole building found no bodies and no damage of that magnitude, then why did the building collaps? or they searched the building and found the damage and no bodies.

They werent aware because the damage was done to the south face, while they entered from the north east side. How can you see the south face if you are standing and looking at the north face? Its as simple as that mate! Nothing complex.

No offense to you or anyone, but, it is times like this that make so many non-issues an issue, because of the simplicity of the answer. Truthers like to over complicate things, and this causes problems, because everyone is expecting some sort of complex answer, and refuses to believe the short simple answer. Like just now. I am not trying to pick on you, but I just wanted to address this.

Ok no bodies I'm with you on this one... But what happened to the building after they cleared it? Or did they not check the entire building?

This is what I'm talking about , you find answer to one question, but then it creates another question.. That's why the OS doesn't add up.

But what difference is it if there were no bodies on the floor or in the building? You are combining two different things and its getting a little tangled up. If there were people in WTC7 killed by the impact, or dumbass gawkers that like to go in where they are not allowed, we may never know. So that is a separate issue. It does not add, or take away from the official way WTC7 came down. What was the issue was Barry's account of bodies stepping over. Or people, or whatever. That would mean that at the least, people got caught up in the collapse of the North Tower and died after the debris slammed through the structure. But that does not add, or subtract from the official version of events.

Truthers are trying to remotely grasp and combine two things in the hope they stick and create some sinister evidence of foul play. Like here. They combine Barry's account of feeling like stepping over people, and that some how means that a big bomb went off inside WTC7. But there were no bodies there and there was no bomb blast at the base or anywhere, and to top it off, Barry described the impact of the North Tower while he was inside. No one else ANYWHERE ever mentioned any massive blasts ripping through the lobby of the WTC7, or hearing anything or seeing anything. Some people make it appear that bombs can only be heard by certain people quietly or cannot be noticed by others. We all know. if there was a massive blast at the base of WTC7 prior to any collapses of the Towers, EVERYONE at the complex would have noticed it and it would have been impossible to cover it up or miss it. For people that believe that "OS" supporters are trying to make things up or bend the laws of physics, they really should take a closer scrutiny of truthers that believe that massive blasts can be ignored or missed by everyone standing within a half block of the building.

reply to post by maxella1

If you have footage of these firefighters explaining in their own words what it was that sounded like “secondary explosions” I would appreciate it very, very much, since unlike YOU, I’m here actually trying to find answers for MY questions.

Really? How do you propose finding answers to your questions on the forum of conspiracy website? Have you tried to find those firemen and asking them what they meant by what they said? I would think that would be more productive than posting videos on a public forum of website dedicated to conspiracies.

reply to post by maxella1


What a paranoid rant. Is it because the thread is not exactly going your way that you must throw your toys out of the pram ?

Let me remind you that it is you who has been making the issue about Barry Jennings remarks.

I haven't insulted you but you don't mind describing my post as "urinating in the thread" Hypocrite much !

Originally posted by petrus4


I'm not going to criticise you for this...at least, not this time.

Strong emotions are a problem for me as well. Some of us are just fiery.

Well I am just commenting on how so many of these 9/11 conspiracies turn into over-complex "Rube-Goldberg" style plans which require 100% of everything going right in order to go unnoticed.

reply to post by GenRadek

They werent aware because the damage was done to the south face, while they entered from the north east side. How can you see the south face if you are standing and looking at the north face? Its as simple as that mate! Nothing complex.

If they didn't see the damage, how could they be sure there was people in that area?
Don't you think they would have to go the damaged area to check for people trapped by the debris?

For people that believe that "OS" supporters are trying to make things up or bend the laws of physics, they really should take a closer scrutiny of truthers that believe that massive blasts can be ignored or missed by everyone standing within a half block of the building.

You are making things up by saying what the firefighters actually meant.
I take what they say as what they are saying not like what I think they are saying. I don't know what went on in the buildings while they were in it, they do.

One of you said earlier that they were saying secondary explosions because its the most common form of terrorism, but the hypothesis of extreme heat and structural damage were made up hours after the attack by that Harley Davidson guy, and wouldn’t even care about it if it didn't turnout to be the exact hypothesis by the investigation. To me that doesn't sound right.
Like I said before I’m not saying that it was explosives, it's firefighters, and witnesses who describe explosions, you are correct that it really doesn’t matter if there were bodies in WTC 7, but that doesn’t change the fact that it was his eyewitness experience and stop saying that Barry Jennings was imagining stepping over something that felt like people.
343 firefighters are dead because of 9/11, show them some respect and stop putting words in the mouths. In this video they are saying secondary explosions on floors much lower than the plane hit it.

Originally posted by petrus4


I can see this, yes. It also is reasonable to expect, perhaps, that a larger amount of that force might have ended up close to the base of the building, cumulatively speaking, as well.

It could, but remember too:

There were 110 floors. Each floor had a gap of what, 10ft in between each floor? I'm sorry I do not have the numbers in front, but for sake of argument, lets say 10 ft. Each floor is an acre in size. Even just one floor coming down, it is going to displace an acre of air and squeeze it out. You are right to observe that closer to the base, the force of the floors coming down would have been greater and ejected more "junk" out faster. Some claim that the ejections are actually the entire floors being ejected, but that would have been impossible since A) no floors were seen being ejected through the exterior columns and B) workers cutting into the debris came across multiple floors pancaked and squished like geologic strata. Many underestimate the energy of this collapse and need to backtrack to "explosives". But in order for explosives to do the same kind of display, each floor would require tons of explosives to be packed on each floor to "eject" the floors and everything inside, but then that would also cause blasts that would shatter glass all over Lower Manhattan.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by maxella1

 

What a paranoid rant. Is it because the thread is not exactly going your way that you must throw your toys out of the pram ?

Let me remind you that it is you who has been making the issue about Barry Jennings remarks.

I haven't insulted you but you don't mind describing my post as "urinating in the thread" Hypocrite much !

So the firefighters are now complicit in 9/11 too?

This is what urinating into this thread looks like,
My statement was aimed at the direction of the “debunkers” in general, just like you insult “truthers” in general.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by maxella1

 

If you have footage of these firefighters explaining in their own words what it was that sounded like “secondary explosions” I would appreciate it very, very much, since unlike YOU, I’m here actually trying to find answers for MY questions.

Really? How do you propose finding answers to your questions on the forum of conspiracy website? Have you tried to find those firemen and asking them what they meant by what they said? I would think that would be more productive than posting videos on a public forum of website dedicated to conspiracies.

I came here to ask you, since you know everything about 9/11.
I already said that earlier... pay attention.

reply to post by maxella1

I came here to ask you, since you know everything about 9/11.

Really? You're just conducting a survey? So how do you like the results?

I already said that earlier... pay attention.

So - I take it then you don't care for the answers.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by maxella1

 

I came here to ask you, since you know everything about 9/11.

Really? You're just conducting a survey? So how do you like the results?

I already said that earlier... pay attention.

So - I take it then you don't care for the answers.

Sure, try: New York Times L.A. Times Washington Post Time Newsweek Or: en.wikipedia.org... Unless, of course, you think they're "all in on it"

You mean this result?

Yes it was very helpful.