On Tour In America & It's A Police State. No Doubt About It.

reply to post by nightstalker78


I think he's more so pointing to the trend our country is headed in as opposed to complaining about how it is now. Imagine how much worse it will be in, say, 5 years....If the thought of a police state doesn't concern you then you need to get your head checked. It's one of the biggest, legitimate concerns facing our country right now.

To the op you sound paranoid. I live in Boston and it's definitely not a police state. I'm pretty sure I was in NY recently and went to the statue of liberty just fine and no it didn't take "hours" just a quick little ferry ride. Something's going down no doubt about it but America isn't in a police state or else I wouldn't be siting here typing a message on my iPhone as I take a **** on a conspiracy theory website.

Originally posted by spav5

Originally posted by poloblack
reply to post by Domo1

 

Well, looks like that police presence isn't doing SQUAT, sport.

Sure they are..they are harassing law abiding citizens.

And pot smokers.

Peace

thus leading us into a police state duh!!!
2

Originally posted by nightstalker78

Originally posted by poloblack
reply to post by nightstalker78

 

Security? Give me a break. If they were so concerned about ''security'' in the nation's capitol, why the hell does D.C. have one of the highest crime rates in America? You really believe these people are concerned about your security? And who are you to tell someone that they need to move to another country because they disagree with a growing police state? Unbelievable!!

..../

You and the op think this is a police state?Go live somwhere else for a few years.Seriously.Do it.You're bitching about America..go live in say...somewhere in the middle east.
..../.

edit on 10-4-2012 by nightstalker78 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-4-2012 by nightstalker78 because: spelling :x

I can see where the OP is coming from. I lived in what Amerika was calling a police state from 1986 to 1990, that being apartheid South Africa. Where there were both government and private sector terrorists (I worked for the military and military contractors in national security infrastructure, you can call it threat "removal").

There were guards at the malls, to enter, I or anyone else showed our guns.
There were guards at government offices and courts, I or anyone else checked our guns into safety deposit while there if it was a court office out of respect but I was allowed to wear my guns in court on two occassions.
There were guards at borders, we showed our papers and crossed, no manhandling, we had guns.
There were guards at military bases and border installations, they wanted me to check my guns, I didn't but even the chief of CI had to.
The guards were ALWAYS polite, we all had guns including the guards.
Women and children were never touched in an inappropriate manner, because we all had guns.

The government knew where to draw the line, because when a country is fighting REAL terrorists, the government ALWAYS needs the support of the PEOPLE. I can't think of one person I knew there that was afraid of the government. Its always a better solution to show a little respect, be friendly and recognize that anyone can have a bad day, but you don't have to make it worse.

Amerika is not what it once was and I know many of the people of ATS will not want to believe that. I can compare two alleged "police states" easily and Amerika is much worse than South Africa was in the late 80's and early 90's. Last time I went to the US (Texas) for a DHS related company on border issues, I watched what they did to the other travelers, it's disgusting. I was whisked through security, no pat downs, no scanners, no belts/shoes/coat/etc. removal and they were very polite in asking me to open my carry-on bag full of circuit boards, software, sensors and batteries.

And now you can have a full body cavity search for a traffic infraction. Yeah ok, just keep believing the MSM propagated government tripe. Amerika IS a police state. But keep that head buried in the sand ;-)

Cheers - Dave

Here are the problems with your arguments:

Originally posted by Maluhia

Five things more dangerous than TERRORISTS

Auto Accidents: A quick check shows deaths by terrorist over 9 years 4,300 = 478; deaths by drunk drivers each year 10,000 = 20 times more likely to be killed by a drunk driver then a terrorist.

We, as a country, spend lots of money trying to prevent auto accidents. We employ State Troopers to patrol our interstates for crime & to enforce safety laws. So, auto accidents are taken very seriously and we have entire infrastructures in place to maximize safety & enforce our laws.

Fatal Hospital Mistake Deaths: There are over 100,000 deaths each year from hospital mistakes, wrong medication and mismanaged care. A quick check shows you are = 209 times more likely to be killed by a hospital than by a terrorist.

Again, there are many, many checks and balances in place to keep these deaths to as low a number as possible. As before, there are entire systems in place to deal with the acknowledged issue.

Fatal Occupational Accidents: This group includes construction, mining, manufacturing, agriculture, forestry, fishing, etc., and the average is about 5,700 per year. Quick check here = you are 11 times more likely to be killed in an occupational accident than by a terrorists.

As with the previous two examples, this is no different. There are many, many procedures, checks etc that are in place for the acknowledged problem.

By way of your logic, there is absolutely no reason for cruise liners to have lifeboats aboard or run evacuation drills. No reason for airlines to point out the escape doors. See what I mean?



thejcrevelator2.hubpages.com...
www.theinsider.org...
www.washingtonpost.com...

edit on 10-4-2012 by Maluhia because: (no reason given)

reply to post by MRuss


These security are not for foreign terrorists but for those of us whom are tired of the plague of corruption we see everywhere! I would never do anything to harm another human being but it's quite obvious to me there are people in our government that are promoting the idea of internment camps, police state and civil unrest whether real or manufactured! To all the shills on here trying to promote your disinfo; when these elitist run out of use for you, there will be nowhere for you to run to. To those out there without the courage to stand against the military industrial complex; There will come a time where conformation will cost you your eternal soul. To the elitist whom
have contributed to the destruction of everything that's good and wholesome about humanity; there will come a day when you will be judged though not by man! I will pray that God has mercy on your eternal soul. We have been living in a delusion of freedom, justice and equality. this is obvious to all with the eyes to see. though there are many of us who have chosen to speak out against these attrocities, there are many more of us afraid of the consequences to stand against them. then there are those not even willing to acknowladge the truth. When the final judgement comes to us all there will be noone to bribe, threaten or kill in order to bypass it. I take faith in Jesus Christ being my savior and this is where i gain my strength. We are all the children of Israel but taking the side of evil has its consequences and though right now you may live in luxury and be praised by the servents of lucifer, there will come that day where the word of Christ will cast down all the sinners!On this day may the Lord have mercy on you, cause even the most foolish of our brethren and their deluded servents need saving just like even the most holy of us need to humble ourselves! I was not always religious and in my head i'm still not sure that God is real but in my soul and heart I know he is!

May The Lord bless you, and keep you;
May he make His face shine on you,
And be gracious to you;
may he lift up His divine countenance upon you,
And give you peace."'
Amen

Originally posted by nightstalker78
reply to post by MRuss

 

Stop whining.That's all I'm getting from your post.It's not that big of a deal to me.There is a reason why there's so much security.It is not 1920 anymore.The world has changed and so has America.Really,if you don't like it either do one of two things.Find another job or move to another country.Also,do you really expect security not to be tight in our nations capital?REALLY?

edit on 10-4-2012 by nightstalker78 because: (no reason given)

Do you not ever wonder if maybe Government is taking advantage of this so called "war on terror" and using this to grow disproportionally to actual threats? How many security departments do we have now? How big are those budgets getting and how much more will they grow on our dime? Like any other profession, those in charge are always looking to increase their own job security and wealth. When the government does it, it becomes very problematic for obvious reasons.

I don't see any "whining", I see genuine concern that many of us share. Soon, they will be randomly stopping drivers on the roads for "safety" checks if they are left unchallenged. They are already testing that. At some point, we need a reality check. Are you perchance a government employee?? LOL.

Originally posted by Hawking
No problems out here in West Texas. People seem to do what they want, when they want.

I've been pulled over a couple times here and the cops are reasonable and fair when they could have really nailed me (may just be because I'm white though).


My advice: Get out of places like DC, NY, LA, SF, etc.

You missed the golden opportunity. Don't tell him that it's only liberal controlled areas that have the police states. He/she might actually wind up in West Texas! In the future, do the follow..

Do NOT come to Colorado. It's worse than DC, NY, LA, SF, etc. In fact, the police pull you over ever 3 miles and strip search you. It's horrible. Please, don't come here, you'll hate it!!! The military even walks up and down the streets, armed, looking to put people in FEMA Camps. You have to be careful in Colorado. It's a "flyover" state for a reason. It's not safe here.

Think that will keep them out of Colorado?

reply to post by MRuss


I concur, MRuss. We are losing our freedoms all the time, aided by the supreme court supporting totalitarian agendas, a corporate owned congress, wall street shenanigans, and new world order control freaks using intelligence agencies, fusion centers, and new surveillance statagies and equipment to monitor or every thought and action.

Culling the populace by bullying them and treating everyone as a suspected terrorist is conditioning americans to accept a police state and limited freedom. It is shameful and tyrannous. I too hope for an awakening of this country before it's truly too late. If those aforementioned saviors in your post are indeed coming to correct this mess, I await their emergence and applaud it.

Originally posted by Intelligence101
To the op you sound paranoid. I live in Boston and it's definitely not a police state. I'm pretty sure I was in NY recently and went to the statue of liberty just fine and no it didn't take "hours" just a quick little ferry ride. Something's going down no doubt about it but America isn't in a police state or else I wouldn't be siting here typing a message on my iPhone as I take a **** on a conspiracy theory website.

I love this ... Please allow me to paraphrase ...

To all those concerned about a police state you are completely paranoid. All this police presence and authority - with checkpoints going in everywhere are for your safety. You are paranoid if you think all this is some nefarious plan to encroach on your freedoms until you have none left. The government is simply doing its job of protecting us.

In fact you should be helping them by reporting suspicious behavior. You see there are literally millions of people who wish nothing more than to kill as many Americans as they can and, in case you didn't know it, many of them are from right here in America. The government even keeps a watch list of these potential terrorist. That list identifies millions of Americans that may want to kill other Americans.

So you should be aware, on the lookout for these people. Suspect anyone and everyone, because terrorist these days look like normal ordinary folk like you and me. They are literally all around you. They could be your neighbor, your doctor, the mother in the supermarket with two kids. You need to keep up your vigilance. Its the patriotic thing to do.

---------------

So suspecting the government's motives is paranoia but suspecting the people all around you of being potential terrorist hellbent on killing you ... that's perfectly sane thinking ...

Originally posted by MRuss
I'm a tour director.

I'm in DC, and New York and Boston a lot, and I do tours in Canada and the rest of the world, too. The past two weeks I've been on the road non-stop, primarily in New York and DC.

I've spent a majority of the time going through security checkpoints. At every attraction our bags are checked, we go through body scanners, we take off our shoes, our coats. You know the drill. Today alone I've been through six scanners. There are policemen everywhere. Eleven years after 9/11, I'm led to believe that terrorists are going to attack the bull on Wall Street?

Today we were touring Wall Street and you can't even walk up to the bull anymore and rub him for good luck. It's cordoned off and a policeman sits there all day in his police car two feet away to make sure no one hops the fence and touches the bull. Seriously? Even the bull----? Has someone made a terrorist threat against the bull? We've been walking by that bull on tour for a dozen years, but alas, it's been off limits for months now. It looks ridiculous behind its steel fences, like a bull in a zoo.

DC isn't any better----it's worse... and the truth is, there is no terrorist hiding behind the Jefferson Memorial or the Wall Street bull. TPTB are hoping to make life more difficult, more restricted. All under the guise of terrorism.

It takes hours to get in and see the new 9/11 memorial fountains. It takes hours to see the Statue of Liberty. It takes hours to see the Capitol, hours to see the archives, hours to get through security just about everywhere. It's the new normal. No one questions it. Most people think they are just doing their patriotic duty.

Out on the road so much, I really have a sense of what is happening to this country and how it plays out in everyday life.

So.....I'd love all of the people who are waiting for the aliens or the White Dragons or the Pentagon to come and save us to let me know when this might happen. Because everyday it gets worse and worse out here.

Everyday we look a little less like America and more like Amerika.

Did someone stick their hands down your pants yet? You didn't mention it.

Just asking.

---------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by poloblack
reply to post by nightstalker78

 

Security? Give me a break. If they were so concerned about ''security'' in the nation's capitol, why the hell does D.C. have one of the highest crime rates in America? You really believe these people are concerned about your security? And who are you to tell someone that they need to move to another country because they disagree with a growing police state? Unbelievable!!

So, the high crime rate happens where? It happens in the neighborhoods, not at the Smithsonian! Your post seems to indicate that the security in place at the Museum of Natural Science or the Washington Monument is failing and there is high crime in and around them. There isn't.

It's like saying Dallas should have a lower crime rate because of the security measures at the airport or the arena.

I believe a persons "understanding" of the events surrounding 9-11 is a key point in this discussion. I don't think many would disagree that we have seen a huge "response" in terms of "security" as a result of that event. That's just a fact reguardless of who one sees as "responsible" for what happened on 9-11.

The evidence and the facts are so overwelming in my mind that 9-11 was an inside job involving the US government that ANTHING the government does in the name of "protecting" us from "terrorism" is seen to me as highly suspect and completely disingenuous. I am completely uncomfortable giving up a single Constitutional right in the name of that "evil" event.

It seems also on a more local level that many states are following suit of the Federal government, and passing "invasive" laws all in the name of "protecting" us, heck I guess the people are so "primed" now to give up freedom. In CA there's now a law that allows people to be pulled over if the officer, at thier "discretion" believes you are "distracted in some way, what does that even mean? Drinking your coffee, changing radio station ( and yes, I know you need to be careful while doing those things! ), well let me share why a friend of mine was pulled over for being a "distracted driver" recently, she was informed by the officer that she had too many things hanging from her rear view mirror that "may" distract her, I swear I'm not making this up!

The OP seems to be in a position to observe the changes in "security" in a unique way....and certainly think her observations are of value to understanding the BIG PICTURE, something none of us should take lightly IMO...

Originally posted by MRuss
I'm a tour director.

I'm in DC, and New York and Boston a lot, and I do tours in Canada and the rest of the world, too. The past two weeks I've been on the road non-stop, primarily in New York and DC.

I've spent a majority of the time going through security checkpoints. At every attraction our bags are checked, we go through body scanners, we take off our shoes, our coats. You know the drill. Today alone I've been through six scanners. There are policemen everywhere. Eleven years after 9/11, I'm led to believe that terrorists are going to attack the bull on Wall Street?

Today we were touring Wall Street and you can't even walk up to the bull anymore and rub him for good luck. It's cordoned off and a policeman sits there all day in his police car two feet away to make sure no one hops the fence and touches the bull. Seriously? Even the bull----? Has someone made a terrorist threat against the bull? We've been walking by that bull on tour for a dozen years, but alas, it's been off limits for months now. It looks ridiculous behind its steel fences, like a bull in a zoo.

DC isn't any better----it's worse... and the truth is, there is no terrorist hiding behind the Jefferson Memorial or the Wall Street bull. TPTB are hoping to make life more difficult, more restricted. All under the guise of terrorism.

It takes hours to get in and see the new 9/11 memorial fountains. It takes hours to see the Statue of Liberty. It takes hours to see the Capitol, hours to see the archives, hours to get through security just about everywhere. It's the new normal. No one questions it. Most people think they are just doing their patriotic duty.

Out on the road so much, I really have a sense of what is happening to this country and how it plays out in everyday life.

So.....I'd love all of the people who are waiting for the aliens or the White Dragons or the Pentagon to come and save us to let me know when this might happen. Because everyday it gets worse and worse out here.

Everyday we look a little less like America and more like Amerika.

Appreciate your giving the insight in what is going on around America. I know it must be a total hassle with a big load of tourists to run thru those mills. But you know what? A guy drove what he thought was a van full of explosives up to or onto the grounds of the White House, forgot which now. The FBI got him; I think they set him up anyway, but did you hear about it on the media? BTW, I sure didn't til I watched a non-mainline news source. Muslims are practicing deceit, stealth, AND violence to accomplish their ends. And they are not planning picnics for us like we did the Indians. Check out Muslims are practicing deceit, stealth, AND violence to accomplish their ends. Check out Matthew Duss - Ctr for American Progress

Originally posted by JanAmosComenius
Few month ago I went to India. Standard security check at Prague airport, then we got bottle of whiskie at duty free shop - as we were traveling of Schengen space it was sealed in plastic bag. Staff at shop asked as for our travel itinerary to see where and by which airline we travel. Thanks to some corporate bastardness was Delta airlines masked as KLM. So we went to Amsterdam, we were at transfer and did not expect any other security troubles. BUT it was Delta airlines ... some retarded bastard asked as for reasons why we are traveling to India, were we will stay there and so on. Then we were forced to go through full body scanner. Staff there tried to be nice (I think it was Dutch contractor) but costumers response was not positive - almost everybody was disappointed by extra security check: WE WERE AT TRANSFER space so WHY this extra check? Our bottle of whiskey was stolen and never refunded as promised by staff at checkpoint.
And this was flight from Europe to India ... just by some US bullcrap company (namely Delta airlines ... but same rules probably are set for all US companies).
Result? I'll never ever travel with US company again. I'll rather die in terrorist attack than to be searched on every step I do.
By the way searches are farce. If I want to bring the bomb in to the plane, I'll use my notebook battery. In fact I can develop 5 ways how to get bomb on to the plane. Those searches are just pro forma and never ever will stop dedicated attacker - maybe few losers but NO real man, real threat.
I'll not sell my freedom for FALSE sense of security. Period.

To be honest situation is going from bad to unbearable everywhere - US is our beacon in this respect.

Delta had nothing to do with it. America had nothing to do with it. Every country has their own procedures in place. Well, someone from Delta may have stolen your whiskey.

reply to post by MRuss


Good Post! Lots of typical sheeple answers to your post. Everythings fine here, were not as bad as North Korea so stop complaining etc. Translation: it hasn't effected me yet so I don't give a flying flip...

Unfortunately the pendulum has to swing all the way to its extreme point before it swings back the other way. As I have said many times people will not wake up until enough are feeling the pain. Lets just hope it is not too late.

reply to post by MRuss


I agree with you completely. And I most strenuously disagree with those that say "what's the big deal". There is no need for such an "occupation force" in a free country. I used to travel a lot for business. Started right after 9-11 and flew pretty much all over the country and Europe, western mostly until about early 2005. One thing that struck me is at all US airports there was always lot's of police, or military, in flack jackets carrying machine guns, some with grenade launchers. And yes they did actually have grenades for them. Whatever would they need grenades for in an airport terminal? At every European airport you would see just a few police with normal weaponry, like we used to see here. I can only think this was for intimidation, such a visible presence can have no other result. I also think it was for training the public to accept it and expect it. My career was derailed by a serious health issue. Which is also the reason I will never fly commercial again. I now have a programmable shunt in my head due to damage from a brain tumor. The shunt is set with magnetic force so metal detectors are no good for me. And believe me, I have noticed the darn things popping up everywhere over the last few years. As for the body scanner, I want no part of that either. Not especially modest but I am allergic to radiation. So I will pass. Won't go to concerts or amusement parks either. Six Flags now has metal detectors. Everywhere I go with a detector means being patted down like a criminal. As I am not a criminal I tend to resent it. So I take my business elsewhere. If we all thought like that there would be much less fake security and harassment of the traveling public. Which I think will only get worse. They are certain to up the ante again soon. The DHS just bought 450 million rounds of .40 caliber ammunition. As there are no terrorists here (we all know who the real terrorists are) I can only assume the ammo is intended for us. Along with all the bullets they have also stocked up on bullet resistant checkpoint booths. Gee, wonder what those are for? If I had the financial resources to leave this country I would have already done so. What we are seeing is the slow run up to nothing other than a police state, in the tradition of Nazi Germany. Have you heard the boiling frog analogy? If you put a frog into cool water and slowly turn up the heat it will cook and die. If you toss a frog into boiling water it will jump out. So they are slowly turning up the heat. when enough people begin to question things, well, they already have the ammo...

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy
Delta had nothing to do with it. America had nothing to do with it. Every country has their own procedures in place. Well, someone from Delta may have stolen your whiskey.

No. This was trouble with Delta airlines. Not India, not continental Europe countries use full body scanners. It is US government who force Delta airlines (and its customers) to go through this totally useless humiliation. If I left Amsterdam on my way to India by NON US BASED flight, I'll not need to go through this ionizing radiation emitting, useless and overpriced nonsense.

WTF: There is higher probability you got a cancer from this scanners than you die by terrorist attack! Is it worth it? For some idiots it is.


Sorry for name calling. It was not intended for you but for Mr. Chertoff who did a fortune on it.

Originally posted by MRuss
you can't even walk up to the bull anymore and rub him for good luck.

Going to Wall Street without being able to 'pet the bull' ... that's like going to Philadelphia and not being allowed to see the Liberty Bell .. or going to Orlando and not being allowed to go to Disney World ... or going to St. Louis and being denied seeing the Arch. No more Wall Street Bull? BOOOOOOO!!!!