Legit Questions for ATS Liberals…Shed Some Light Please

Originally posted by elitegamer23

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by Propulsion
I wish I could find the stats, but it has been proven that liberals change their views after a certain age. Usually thirty years of age on up. Can anyone explain why that is…?

Can you please explain what you think a 'liberal' is? I am gay but I consider myself politically conservative. I am past 30 year of age.

I am not sure what the point of this thread is.

edit on 8-4-2012 by Garfee because: (no reason given)

a weak attempt for flags and stars. hate is a powerful thing.

awareness is even more powerful... History will tell us who we are.

to know where you been is to know where you are going

reply to post by speculativeoptimist


Which political figures? Is the Prez hawkish with his bombing of LIbya? Why did he send more troops to Afghanistan? Oh wait you must think like some others here the Prez is secrectly conservative.

Be done with me then, but I still have the right to dispute you.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

Originally posted by elitegamer23

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by Propulsion
I wish I could find the stats, but it has been proven that liberals change their views after a certain age. Usually thirty years of age on up. Can anyone explain why that is…?

Can you please explain what you think a 'liberal' is? I am gay but I consider myself politically conservative. I am past 30 year of age.

I am not sure what the point of this thread is.

edit on 8-4-2012 by Garfee because: (no reason given)

a weak attempt for flags and stars. hate is a powerful thing.

awareness is even more powerful... History will tell us who we are.

to know where you been is to know where you are going

a thread like this doesnt attract people with an open mind. they are too smart , and they stay away.

this kind of thread is just a place for us political trolls to fight.

reply to post by AwakeinNM

liberals can't be fiscal conservatives no matter what the cost,

Yeah, like conservatives have a clue how to be fiscal conservatives. The last three free market preaching conservative president spent money in a manner that would make even a drunken sailor blush, of course all of it borrowed against future generations.

Wow, talk about living in a fantasy world.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
reply to post by braindeadconservatives

 

Pretty spot on.

The righties will make up ANYTHING (as they usually do) to make the liberals of America seem looney. But really, we're the ones who want a Democracy instead of a Theocracy, we're the ones who want American troops to come home and protect our borders, we're the ones who want to cut NECESSARY spending, we're the ones who believe in FREEDOM and LIBERTY for all citizens and not just white, Christian, straight males. We're also the ones who believe it's the government's role to provide service for the citizens but at the same time, not play big brother in civil liberties or social issues.

I understand the Republicans and their motivations behind their insane agendas, but they don't and shouldn't fit American ideals. Instead, they should form a new country and call it Saudi America because judging by Saudi Arabia's policies, right wing America isn't much different.

Are you really trying to tell us that the whole socialised health care is not Big Brother complete with the IRS as the policing arm of the government? Please, where is your desire for true liberty? I don't see it in your post except as a distant wish not based in reality. The reality is your need for bigger government has produced the monstrosity known as the Affordable Health Care Act.

Hey for the sake of allowing me to participate in this discussion will someone please look at my post to this thread and provide some feedback, it is towards the bottom of page 9. And you can also see what I posted in the thread that this one is claimed to be started to counter, I am the last post on that thread. As a new member I would like to have someone offer some feedback and allow me to enter into a discussion not based on trying to run anyone down but to honestly take and construct the other persons arguments in the best form and then debate off that. That seems like it would allow for us to further ourselves personally and as a whole.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Despite my better judgement and knowledge of how far off topic you generally go, I'm going to go ahead and argue that our President most definitely is not a liberal or anywhere on the left. Learn to start judging elected officials on their actions, not their words. Are you starting to get the picture yet?

reply to post by matt47274


I've been waiting a long time for a response as well, don't take it as because you're new...take it as you made a point that can't be trolled. Welcome to ATS

reply to post by lordtyp0

Based on the questions it seems you are conflating things. Firstly; Most on the left differentiate personal from group belonging.

Group belonging, the whole collectivist thing. Still, I never heard Betty Friedan say her ideas were just for liberals. And she had definite communist connections. The communists wanted to draw women into their movement, they needed women to make their party bigger.

Liberals want this Conservatives want that. Liberals are bad because...Conservatives are bad because...
Liberals think Conservatives love Hitler and eat babies.
Conservatives think Liberals love Hitler and eat babies.

I made up Above but it is not far fetched. Just look at the OP. I've read the same BS on liberal sites and heard the same lines from Liberal talking heads for so long now.

Ever wake up one day and realize that it's all irrational bull#? There is no fine line between the two. There are only "degrees of."

End the us vs them mentality and only then can we succeed.

I hope you are intelligent enough that what I said is not above you.

Originally posted by js331975
Liberals want this Conservatives want that. Liberals are bad because...Conservatives are bad because...
Liberals think Conservatives love Hitler and eat babies.
Conservatives think Liberals love Hitler and eat babies.

I made up Above but it is not far fetched. Just look at the OP. I've read the same BS on liberal sites and heard the same lines from Liberal talking heads for so long now.

Ever wake up one day and realize that it's all irrational bull#? There is no fine line between the two. There are only "degrees of."

End the us vs them mentality and only then can we succeed.

I hope you are intelligent enough that what I said is not above you.

im not religious, thank god, but ill say this. AMEN!

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Despite my better judgement and knowledge of how far off topic you generally go, I'm going to go ahead and argue that our President most definitely is not a liberal or anywhere on the left. Learn to start judging elected officials on their actions, not their words. Are you starting to get the picture yet?

I know you have said this before. Why is it off topic to discuss the Prez as the ultimate hawk? When someone tells me a war hawk is usually religious or Christian, I want to know where the Prez fits in. Why do you view the Prez as not liberal? You would not be the first person to suggest it, I just want to understand why someone so Marxist is not a liberal. Even according to your chart with the 4 pieces, libs fit into authoritarian and not authoritarian. If the Prez is so conservative, then why is it the libs who defend him so much? FDR was a war hawk and he was definitely not conservative. Both FDR and Obama believe in many social welfare programs. Wilson is who signed into law the Federal Reserve Act giving private bankers control over the treasury. He was anything but conservative. Do you really believe that liberals are not into making money with corporations and banks? They just hide it well. Many leftist bankers and financiers are the most evil socialists. How about Soros for starters. Remind me how he made his billions. Doing work like Mother Theresa?
The Prez is deep in the NWO, which encompasses both sides of the spectrum, and perhaps that is where percepetions get fuzzy.
The CFR contains both Democrats and Republicans.

reply to post by Kali74


It seems a little crazy that the moto (oath taken in faith to participate) is deny ignorance, and yet so many people can't stick to it. And on the same note there are so many here that complain about the ones in leadership or business that don't sitck to their oath/motto. Maybe it explains why it is so hard to get to the root of the problems being discussed...maybe... But i do see a lot of effort being undertaken by some folks here to skip the ignorance and deepen the discussion and that is a highly prized charateristic.

As other liberals have said, you seem to have a set of "signs" that you equate with "liberal." I'm liberal and have voted liberal Democrat for most of my adult life. I know a number of liberals (my friends).

Originally posted by seabag
Let’s get started! These are just a few of the contradictions[b/] (hypocrisy if you will) I’ve gleaned from researching my brothers and sisters on the left.

Does this mean that contradictions in conservative mindsets are okay but contradictions from what you perceive as liberals are hypocritical?

1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

You've combined three issues into one, here.
* devout Muslims in SOME countries kill some Muslim homosexuals.
* Liberals support the right of homosexuals to have equal rights as heterosexuals.
* Liberals support Sharia law.

So, to address those:
* What people of other countries do in their culture and country may horrify me, but I have no voting rights in those countries. I'm an American. I vote for propositions in MY country -- I could not vote in Afghanistan, where some devout Muslims (generally Taliban) kill some homosexuals as an expression of Sharia law.
----- side point: here in America, I believe that most of the ones who have beaten and killed homosexuals and lesbians are Christians.
* Yes, I support the rights of homosexuals to marry and adopt. I watched a male couple with their (female, interracial) little girl and they were far better at parenting than some of the heterosexual couples I've seen screaming at each other and at their kids in the grocery store. I support their rights to name each other as their heirs in legal matters and to visit with family priveleges when they are in the hospital. I support the right of George Takei (for instance) to make decisions about his beloved's health care.
* I support the Baptist Church having its own rules to deal with its members, for the Mormons to have the Elders decide matters involving members of their faith, for the Jews to have civil courts to decide matters of religion and for the Muslims to judge civil matters according to Sharia law -- as long as none of the three violate laws of our country.

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

I don't know that the first group are particularly loved. Sharpton's a Pentecostal, for instace, meaning he's not all that liberal. If you'd said Obama, Martin Luther King, or Thurgood Marshall -- they're a bit more typical.

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level?

Because they also benefit Whites, Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans, and others. Because we've seen people starving on the streets here in America. Because we think that starving children is inhumane. Because at the state and charitable level, "aid" doesn't work.

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

Opinions about individual politicians are not the same about opinions of a gender, race, nationality, religion, or anything else. I despise Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church -- but this doesn't say anything about my feelings about Baptists, Christians, or people from Topeka, Kansas.

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty

"Pro Choice" is the correct point. I'm actually even more pro "wear a condom, guys." And I would love to promote a sense among the antiabortion groups that they can prevent abortions by promoting condom and birth control use and by starting groups to adopt unwanted babies. Many of the ones I run across have the "keep the baby, Faith" mentality that we decried in the 1960's.

Liberals decried that back then. We still decry it.

I just got this in an email. Thought I would pass it along.

I am a liberal because I believe oil companies' profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene, but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn't.

I am a liberal because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.

I am a liberal because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.

I am a liberal because I'm way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves.

I am a liberal because because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius.

I am a liberal because because I'm not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.

I am a liberal because because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits, while we take away the Social Security from those who paid into it.

I am a liberal because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the liberals see fit.

I am a liberal because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit those with different beliefs who would never get their agendas past the voters.

I am a liberal because I think that it's better to pay billions to people who hate us for their oil, but not drill our own because it might upset some endangered beetle, gopher or fish.

I am a liberal because while we live in the greatest, most wonderful country in the world, I was promised "HOPE AND CHANGE".

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Despite my better judgement and knowledge of how far off topic you generally go, I'm going to go ahead and argue that our President most definitely is not a liberal or anywhere on the left.

Quite true, as many political analysts have said. He's a bit more to the right than he had been but is more centrist than the others. He and Biden were more centrist in 2008

Originally posted by Nite_wing
I just got this in an email. Thought I would pass it along.

I am a liberal because I believe oil companies' profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene, but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn't.

I am a liberal because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.

I am a liberal because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.

I am a liberal because I'm way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves.

I am a liberal because because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius.

I am a liberal because because I'm not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.

I am a liberal because because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits, while we take away the Social Security from those who paid into it.

I am a liberal because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the liberals see fit.

I am a liberal because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit those with different beliefs who would never get their agendas past the voters.

I am a liberal because I think that it's better to pay billions to people who hate us for their oil, but not drill our own because it might upset some endangered beetle, gopher or fish.

I am a liberal because while we live in the greatest, most wonderful country in the world, I was promised "HOPE AND CHANGE".

Wow that email is pretty stupid

Nice example

I bet all the hacks in here have based their arguments upon the same email!

Star for you, thanks!

reply to post by braindeadconservatives


Actually I have read almost the same reasoning here on about 1/2 of the previous posts.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by lordtyp0

 

Based on the questions it seems you are conflating things. Firstly; Most on the left differentiate personal from group belonging.

Group belonging, the whole collectivist thing. Still, I never heard Betty Friedan say her ideas were just for liberals. And she had definite communist connections. The communists wanted to draw women into their movement, they needed women to make their party bigger.

*slow blink

So your only counterpoint to what I said is that someones ideas are meant for more people... and she had some connections to communism therefor she and her ideas are evil?

Aside from all the twists on logical fallacies there, I am not seeing how your response addresses my statement.

Originally posted by lordtyp0


I am against Sarah Palin because she ... quit her job to get more spotlight. It is that simple.

Not quite. Sarah Palin quit her job because of all the lawsuits filed by liberals which cost her to defend out of her own pocket. Defense of these suits were not paid for by the State of Alaska although many of the suits against her were financed by liberal organizations though straw men. Just want to set the record straight.

P.S. I do consider people who have close ties to Communism to be evil.