The Bible Isn't Stupid, We Are

Originally posted by NaptownBrown

And then it hit me...The Bible is a living document. That means 1000 people can read it, and 1000 people can take a slightly diffferent message from each lesson contained within. Its remarkable to compare the different messages people get from The Bible. It turns out that the different messages people gather are actually rather similar. The only differences being the circumstances in their lives that they are applying the lessons.

I have read certain pieces of scripture countless times and, to my astonishment, I can pull different lessons from the some piece of scripture...all depending on my current situation in life. The same EXACT words, yet different but equally correct and appliable interpretations.

God is truly amazing. He can use the same words without changing a single thing and yet give me two distinct messages that will influence my life at the present time.

What you just described has nothing at all to do with your chosen god, and is certainly not unique to the bible. Different people will always interpet texts in different ways depending on their circumstances, emotions, intelligence etc. at the time of reading, especially when the text is mostly fiction like the bible is.

It wasn't a god that wrote that book, but mortal men who have seen their work altered and warped beyond recognition over time. Any author, regardless of skill, has the potential to provoke the varying responses and 'lessons' you have mentioned. I recently read Orwell's 1984 and thought it serves as a warning and paints a frightening image of a future we seem to heading torwards, but someone else else could pick up the book and see an excellent system of government that should be implemented right away, I may read it again in the future and realise something totally different.

Though Orwell was a genius and a visionary, he was no immortal deity. Yet he can create the same scenario to the one you described. As you should be able to see, a god doesn't even come into it.

Originally posted by Shierah

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Science is a tool, nothing more. How is life not meaningful knowing that everything is atoms? Have you ever looked at the beauty of nature? How is knowing you're a part of that beauty not meaningful?

Shame on anyone who needs only a book to find meaning, when it's all there in front of your face.

Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that won't be revealed." -from the Gospel of Thomas

Yes. I knew that before I read the bible.

Here's something that needs to be understood/clarified. All prophets, including Nostradamus, Cayce's visions and predictions are based on the GLOBAL COLLECTIVE CONCIOUSNESS AT THE TIME. Therefore subject to change. That's how it works. WE have always been the one's who control our own destiny/fate.

2012 represents the first time in human evolution where over 50% have tipped the scales in achieving a higher conscious awareness and enlightenment.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by netgamer7k

 

It has zero contradictions, and if you find contradictions you don't get what you're reading.

IF i were you i would reconsider this statement...

IF you can't find contradictions, you're not looking hard enough...

Don't have to look hard at all.

The commandment: 'Thou shalt not kill.' Then, man brutally murdered the son of god, and we are rewarded?

Love thy neighbor, but if he's gay, kill him.

God's enemy, Satan, attacks sinners that are already bound for hell instead of trying to capture the righteous that are bound for heaven. Not much of an enemy there, eh?

Heaven is paradise, but when Satan was in heaven he went to war against god. Imagine going to heaven only to be caught in the middle of a war? If Satan could rebel, why couldn't other angels be just as unsatisfied with heaven? Maybe paradise has a different meaning for some.

God is all-knowing. But, when he tested Abraham to see if he would sacrifice his son, god said, "Now I know that you fear me," meaning god DIDN'T know this.

God is all-loving, but as in the above statement, he also wants us to fear him. Don't know about any of you, but love and fear don't mix well in my book.

God is merciful, yet he didn't show much mercy when he not only drowned every human, but decided to kill all the animals too.

God is merciful, yet killed all of the firstborn of Egypt when they had absolutely nothing to do with the pharoah ordering the deaths of all firstborn jews.

Jesus called Peter the rock upon which his church would be built, yet that rock denied three times even knowing him. At one point Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan." That's not a rock in my book.

Many many more, but I'm tired.

Yes, please stop. You are the exemplary model of the quoted post, you don't understand what you are reading. Actually, let me rephrase that, the Bible at the end of the day is still a book. You don't understand how to read a book. It's an advanced read with much larger and important implications then to me, any other book. And what happens when you have trouble with it? Just like in school you ask for help. Don't be like the people who use this as the bulk of their arsenal against the Bible. Either they are just incompetent or too lazy to answer their own questions. I think you are more intelligent than them.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Shierah

 

I just study the bible. I don't have a position at all. I was just presenting the evidence for the one person who everyone said didn't have any.
And yes, Jesus did go against Jewish laws...sort of. I think that mostly Jesus just went against Jewish dogma, rules that the Jewish church made (If church is a good word), rather than the laws of God (i.e. ten commandment type stuff). Although I might be wrong, if you have any examples give them to me.

Its good that you don't accept everything that you read... its better to study the bible for yourself to find truth... don't let others tell you what it says...

Jesus gave two laws... And the first ten are subject to his two.... The levitical laws were abolished by his ministry... They were laws given by men... not by God.

Heres my thread on the subject... www.abovetopsecret.com...

IF you've read the words of Jesus... and understand them... read through the levitical laws and see for yourself... many laws do not comply with what Jesus taught.... some are obviously still valid such as beastiality

This is the passage for what i said earlier....

15Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

16And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.



What other examples do you want?

oooh, now I gotcha ;D
So basically, Christians believe that they shouldn't follow the laws which they think were contradictory to Jesus' life? Like I said, I only get my info from the bible, I don't really know the Christian churches position on these things. So I guess it really is a matter of church positions.

www.truthseek.net...

hmm....And yah, what are some examples of when he went against the old laws?

the thing about "2 laws that make the others meaningless" is not what it says. Not from what I can see from what I found:

Matthew 22- "Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

So what it looks like to me, is that he was saying those two were simply the greatest commandment, and that the laws all are hinged on those (All the ten commandments, for example, apply to one or the other)
And he didn't say "the only commandments". He was telling the "greatest" i.e. which ones that are most important. And why would he have meant that the others didn't matter if it said in other places that you should honor the laws?
To say that it makes the old testament null is like cutting off your feet because they don't have a brain. You don't really need your feet to survive, i.e. they aren't "the greatest" and the most important part of you, but that doesn't mean your feet aren't important at all.
And if part of the old law is not important, how can you depend on anything else in it, including the prophecies of Jesus? What if that becomes "unimportant" too?
I mean, I'm positive that parts of it were not the words of men and not God, which is why I can't claim to be a Christian! I think such ideas are way to far from the source to claim to be.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by netgamer7k
The OT and NT are the most common ancient texts throughout the world, no one can deny that. To claim it has been changed through the centuries is simply false, because we would be able to identify where and when it was changed due to the massive number of copies.

Just last week I watched a documentary (I think it was called, Riddles of the Bible, I THINK) that showed ancient bibles where the oldest didn't have this part, but the next oldest did have that part. At one point two different christian bibles were being manufactured at the same time for two different parts of the world. I know that at one time God's wife (Ashira?) was in the bible, but because more and more people were worshipping her instead of god, she was deleted.

Ancient is very vague. As a reference point for you, the Dead Sea scrolls discovered at Qumran are the oldest complete Bibles ever found (150 B.C). Also, I have never seen the documentary you are talking about but documentaries sometimes stretch the evidence, by alot. Some of their conclusions are sometimes based fully on assumptions. The Old Testament came before the New Testament, if that's the parts you are referring to. Take any given time in history, there's never a completely different version of the Bible being produced. The institution of transcription from Jewish schools to Greek schools were some of the most thorough to ever exist. A scribe couldn't remove one single vowel point on independent discretion. The Bible has survived over 2500 years. I don't think that can be said for any other book. As to Asherah 'God's wife', she is mentioned in the Bible, never has god's wife and never has she been. I've seen a few articles on the net with those sensationalist title. You think they would pay the people to get it right. Journalism these days...

Originally posted by NaptownBrown
reply to post by Shierah

 

You are 100% correct about how Jesus spoke out against the Jewish hieracrchy...mainly because Jesus, being an equal part of God, knew that His own people had distorted his messages and inserted their own rules. That EXACT same thing is happening today...specifically with the Catholic church (but not exclusively). They create rules contrary to Biblical teaching or without Biblical support.

Ghandi was right, the people who we need to watch out for are the ones who call themselves Christian. Christians subscribe to a man made set of rules.

I dig what you are saying. I was having this discussion with my friend the other day- The church has brainwashed people to think that if they question their authority at all, it makes them satanic. However, Jesus was all for questioning things. And the Jews had used the same brainwashing technique as the Christians are now. They claimed that anyone who went against anything they said was demonic and tempting them. Jesus got accused of being demonic also, they tried to stone him, and ultimately it led to his murder.
The bible said that if you seek you will find, and I think thats true!

Originally posted by starheart
reply to post by SeventhSeal

 

And the ''morons'' that truly follow the Bible are the most peaceful people on Earth.

Crusades were peaceful?

Mind has been blown.

reply to post by Shierah

oooh, now I gotcha ;D
So basically, Christians believe that they shouldn't follow the laws which they think were contradictory to Jesus' life? Like I said, I only get my info from the bible, I don't really know the Christian churches position on these things. So I guess it really is a matter of church positions.

Exactly... so pick a flavor from the 34k available... OR Read it for yourself... and find the real truth...

And yah, what are some examples of when he went against the old laws?

Here are the old laws.... www.jewfaq.org...

And these are his... which can be added to his two.... And still without the first two all this falls apart...

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

reply to post by illuminnaughty


I think the whole world needs this obvious oversight explained. How do biblical scholars look themselves in the face?

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by netgamer7k
The OT and NT are the most common ancient texts throughout the world, no one can deny that. To claim it has been changed through the centuries is simply false, because we would be able to identify where and when it was changed due to the massive number of copies.

Just last week I watched a documentary (I think it was called, Riddles of the Bible, I THINK) that showed ancient bibles where the oldest didn't have this part, but the next oldest did have that part. At one point two different christian bibles were being manufactured at the same time for two different parts of the world. I know that at one time God's wife (Ashira?) was in the bible, but because more and more people were worshipping her instead of god, she was deleted.

The Old Testament mentions people who worship Asherah Poles (phallic poles or trees stripped of branches, located in high places and dedicated to the Canaanite goddess Asherah) as worshiping false gods and idols.

In later times this same goddess was also called Astarte or Ishtar. Asherah was the wife of the god Baal, not the Hebrew God.

The Hebrew God never had a wife.

This has never been redacted from the Bible in any version.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
The Bible is a book of rape, torture, lies, mythology, and metaphors. It's one of the most depraved tales written by our species and it's astonishing some (ok, many morons) follow it.

The Bible does contain those things.

If you think the Bible is the most depraved tale written, it just means you haven't studied any history.

The Bible mentions these things because it includes accounts of the consequences of ignoring moral laws and ethics.

It was never written as a fairy-tale for children.

Originally posted by Demigodly
reply to post by chr0naut

 

What you call 'miraculous', I call 'examples of advanced physics used by technologically advanced alien beings.'

Fair enough, if that is your belief.

I see things differently. If such things were the result of advanced alien tech, done aeons in the past, then it means little to me and my life.

If these things are evidence of a loving God who created me for a purpose and is growing/evolving me towards some future goal (which I can only barely conceive of at this point), then my choices and actions are vital to my future development.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal

Originally posted by starheart
reply to post by SeventhSeal

 

And the ''morons'' that truly follow the Bible are the most peaceful people on Earth.

Crusades were peaceful?

Mind has been blown.

The Crusades were Catholic, not Christian.

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
The Bible is a book of rape, torture, lies, mythology, and metaphors. It's one of the most depraved tales written by our species and it's astonishing some (ok, many morons) follow it.

The Bible does contain those things.

If you think the Bible is the most depraved tale written, it just means you haven't studied any history.

The Bible mentions these things because it includes accounts of the consequences of ignoring moral laws and ethics.

It was never written as a fairy-tale for children.

You're right.

It was written as a fairy tale for adults. So there we go.

from experience, i have applied the teaching of jesus to my life...and i have witnessed miracles beyond physical explanation. i have witnessed them in others lives too.

how many people posting negatively about the The Bible on this thread have actually read JUST the four gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke, John)? Probably none.

So it is ironic that many of you feel equipped to talk about how fictional the Bible is. Based on what? You can say I have no evidence it is Truth (even though I do), but where is your evidence that it is fiction? You possess none.

You God bashers really go out of your way to make assumptions based on things you have heard rather than actual facts.

Its sad, but if you are so ignorant that you'd rather frown at the The Bible then even read just ONE of the gospels, you obviously have an alterior motive to posting here.

reply to post by NaptownBrown

how many people posting negatively about the The Bible on this thread have actually read JUST the four gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke, John)? Probably none.

On the contrary... i actually promote reading just those four books... or at least reading them First...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by NaptownBrown


Taking the position of 'believer', the onus is on YOU to prove that a snake convinced Eve to take a damn bite of the forbidden apple (rolls eyes).

Here's all you need to know about Jesus spiritual teachings - love unconditionally, and treat others the way you like to be treated. Knock yourself out :-)

Originally posted by NaptownBrown
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Where is it commanded to kill gays???

Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.

Originally posted by NaptownBrown
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Thats why Jesus came to be the atoning sacrifice for ALL sin. Taking the Lord's name in vain is a sin too. I am guilty.

Jesus said to love my neighbor as myself. If my neighbor is gay, I will treat him exactly the same as I would like to be treated. Those are the TRUE words of Jesus.

Jesus was not on this Earth to promote religion, but rather to condemn it. Religion is the laws of man, The word of Jesus contains the laws of God. Read a Bible before responding back please.

If you take all the accounts repeated about Jesus, (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John), how much space would the life of jesus take up in the bible? 000.1%? And yet to fanatics like you the little story of jesus IS the bible.

If someone mentions that god KILLED everyone and every animal in a great flood, people like you reply with something like, "That was the OLD testament!" When people like you say this, what you mean is that if the stories in the bible aren't about jesus then they are garbage and not to be taken seriously.

Let me give you a warning from revelations: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

When you jesus freaks rely solely on the accounts of jesus in the bible, you are taking away "from the words of this prophecy" in your hearts and minds.

All the information about jesus in the bible could be printed on a flyer, so if you have an apple that is so rotten that there is only one speck of healthines to it, what do you do with it? You THROW IT OUT!