The Bible Isn't Stupid, We Are

reply to post by lapi7


I see. Carry on.

Originally posted by Demigodly
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Wha? Moses, Jesus didn't perform 'miracles' and superhuman feats? There weren't prophets/kings/giants who lived for 800-900 hundred years? You either believe in the bible accounts or you don't. You can't cherry pick in what to believe. It discredits you.

I was speaking about a comparison between the Creation and Flood accounts specifically.

But you are right.Moses & some prophets did some miraculous things and Jesus was God, so you'd expect the miraculous in that case.

The accounts actually have God doing the miraculous things on behalf of Moses and the Prophets but I'm not going to argue here. I was just being inconsistent.

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by lapi7

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by lapi7

 

You do realize you are raging over an internet connection, right?

Highly effective. Almost as effective as unplugging the tower and going out for a beer.

I'm not raging at you whatsoever my friend.

When you asked if I was yelling at you I replied back to you the following:

"Not at all my friend. IMO you are the one who has the Biblical admonition regarding "Love" as our entrance way into the Heavenly realms absolutely correct.

I was recounting a conversation that transpired between myself and a christian who believed that "love" had nothing to do with being a true Christian. it was him that I took such encumbrance towards.

I apologize that it came out so misconstrued... "

Sorry for any misunderstandings...

Who asked you for your apology?
You are obviously insincere.

It was not addressed to you.

You are obviously a sadistic maniac who simply LOVES & ENJOY arguing, judging, debating, fighting and attempting to annoy and abuse people whom you don't even know. You must be a twin...no one person could be so stupid !

I know your kind. It's called Borderline Personality Disorder. The kind who MUST have the last word or it will rip you open inside...so go ahead and have at it, however I strongly suggest that you get some therapy as expeditiously as possible.

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by Demigodly
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Wha? Moses, Jesus didn't perform 'miracles' and superhuman feats? There weren't prophets/kings/giants who lived for 800-900 hundred years? You either believe in the bible accounts or you don't. You can't cherry pick in what to believe. It discredits you.

I was speaking about a comparison between the Creation and Flood accounts specifically.

But you are right.Moses & some prophets did some miraculous things and Jesus was God, so you'd expect the miraculous in that case.

The accounts actually have God doing the miraculous things on behalf of Moses and the Prophets but I'm not going to argue here. I was just being inconsistent.

Interesting...and yet you cherry pick on what rules and commandments to follow. Considering we just finished discussing how over 75% of the commandments were excluded from the Bible, because there were too many rules.

How does that credit any other part of the Bible?

Also, we aren't supposed to eat pork or work on SATURDAY. Not Sunday, SATURDAY. And you STILL see people disrespecting both days.

Cherry picking? Please.

Originally posted by lapi7

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by lapi7

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by lapi7

 

You do realize you are raging over an internet connection, right?

Highly effective. Almost as effective as unplugging the tower and going out for a beer.

I'm not raging at you whatsoever my friend.

When you asked if I was yelling at you I replied back to you the following:

"Not at all my friend. IMO you are the one who has the Biblical admonition regarding "Love" as our entrance way into the Heavenly realms absolutely correct.

I was recounting a conversation that transpired between myself and a christian who believed that "love" had nothing to do with being a true Christian. it was him that I took such encumbrance towards.

I apologize that it came out so misconstrued... "

Sorry for any misunderstandings...

Who asked you for your apology?
You are obviously insincere.

It was not addressed to you.

You are obviously a sadistic manic who simply LOVES & ENJOY arguing, judging, debating, fighting and attempting to annoy and abuse people whom you don't even know. You must be a twin...no one person could be so stupid !

I know your kind. It's called Borderline Personality Disorder. The kind who MUST have the last word or it will rip you open inside...so go ahead and have at it, however I strongly suggest that you get some therapy as expeditiously as possible.

Apology accepted.

Clearly, someone doesn't know how to read the "reply to ____" part.

Originally posted by lapi7

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by lapi7

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by lapi7

 

You do realize you are raging over an internet connection, right?

Highly effective. Almost as effective as unplugging the tower and going out for a beer.

I'm not raging at you whatsoever my friend.

When you asked if I was yelling at you I replied back to you the following:

"Not at all my friend. IMO you are the one who has the Biblical admonition regarding "Love" as our entrance way into the Heavenly realms absolutely correct.

I was recounting a conversation that transpired between myself and a christian who believed that "love" had nothing to do with being a true Christian. it was him that I took such encumbrance towards.

I apologize that it came out so misconstrued... "

Sorry for any misunderstandings...

Who asked you for your apology?
You are obviously insincere.

It was not addressed to you.

You are obviously a sadistic manic who simply LOVES & ENJOY arguing, judging, debating, fighting and attempting to annoy and abuse people whom you don't even know. You must be a twin...no one person could be so stupid !

I know your kind. It's called Borderline Personality Disorder. The kind who MUST have the last word or it will rip you open inside...so go ahead and have at it, however I strongly suggest that you get some therapy as expeditiously as possible.

Not very "True Christian" of you to judge me like that.

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by Demigodly
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Wha? Moses, Jesus didn't perform 'miracles' and superhuman feats? There weren't prophets/kings/giants who lived for 800-900 hundred years? You either believe in the bible accounts or you don't. You can't cherry pick in what to believe. It discredits you.

I was speaking about a comparison between the Creation and Flood accounts specifically.

But you are right.Moses & some prophets did some miraculous things and Jesus was God, so you'd expect the miraculous in that case.

The accounts actually have God doing the miraculous things on behalf of Moses and the Prophets but I'm not going to argue here. I was just being inconsistent.

Interesting...and yet you cherry pick on what rules and commandments to follow. Considering we just finished discussing how over 75% of the commandments were excluded from the Bible, because there were too many rules.

How does that credit any other part of the Bible?

Also, we aren't supposed to eat pork or work on SATURDAY. Not Sunday, SATURDAY. And you STILL see people disrespecting both days.

Cherry picking?

Please.

Where does it say that in the Bible?

(It doesn't)

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by Demigodly
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Wha? Moses, Jesus didn't perform 'miracles' and superhuman feats? There weren't prophets/kings/giants who lived for 800-900 hundred years? You either believe in the bible accounts or you don't. You can't cherry pick in what to believe. It discredits you.

I was speaking about a comparison between the Creation and Flood accounts specifically.

But you are right.Moses & some prophets did some miraculous things and Jesus was God, so you'd expect the miraculous in that case.

The accounts actually have God doing the miraculous things on behalf of Moses and the Prophets but I'm not going to argue here. I was just being inconsistent.

Interesting...and yet you cherry pick on what rules and commandments to follow. Considering we just finished discussing how over 75% of the commandments were excluded from the Bible, because there were too many rules.

How does that credit any other part of the Bible?

Also, we aren't supposed to eat pork or work on SATURDAY. Not Sunday, SATURDAY. And you STILL see people disrespecting both days.

Cherry picking?

Please.

Are we talking christian rules or Jewish here?

Theres nothing about not eating pork in christian laws my friend...

I think that all religions can be said to have been "dumbed down" for people. Religion is simply putting nonhuman subjects into human understanding. Therefore, the Creator in the bible is described as human, having human emotions and thoughts, like jealousy and anger, when in reality its obvious from looking around that the Creator must not think the way that humans do.
And science kind of makes me sad, because a lot of those who talk about "science" do the exact same thing that they accuse religious people of doing. They become narrowminded and judgemental.

Originally posted by troubleshooter

Originally posted by xxThexGreatxEscapexx
The bible has a ton of contradictions. You'll never get anywhere with it unless you learn the original language the bible was translated from. Latin and Greek, Leo Tolstoy did it.

The original languages were Hebrew Aramaic and Greek ... not Latin.

Most of the changes were made before the Romans translated it into latin (although changes were made even then, just not as many). Sadly the originals probably no longer exist, the earliest found hand-copied manuscripts are still only copies.
Anybody interested in the reality of the Bible should study textual criticism (textual critics study old manuscripts to try to figure out what the originals are like) and also the alternative gospels, which often are much more closer to the source since they haven't been recopied as much.

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by Demigodly
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Wha? Moses, Jesus didn't perform 'miracles' and superhuman feats? There weren't prophets/kings/giants who lived for 800-900 hundred years? You either believe in the bible accounts or you don't. You can't cherry pick in what to believe. It discredits you.

I was speaking about a comparison between the Creation and Flood accounts specifically.

But you are right.Moses & some prophets did some miraculous things and Jesus was God, so you'd expect the miraculous in that case.

The accounts actually have God doing the miraculous things on behalf of Moses and the Prophets but I'm not going to argue here. I was just being inconsistent.

Interesting...and yet you cherry pick on what rules and commandments to follow. Considering we just finished discussing how over 75% of the commandments were excluded from the Bible, because there were too many rules.

How does that credit any other part of the Bible?

Also, we aren't supposed to eat pork or work on SATURDAY. Not Sunday, SATURDAY. And you STILL see people disrespecting both days.

Cherry picking?

Please.

Where does it say that in the Bible?

(It doesn't)

Matthew 23:1-3 "Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

Jesus says many times that the laws of the patriarchs should be followed :/ I'll find more quotes where it says that in the bible if you want them. So its not a question of Jewish or Christian. Jesus intended for "Christians" (not that he intended at the time for some people to all get together and decide what to tell other people about him that may or may not be true) to follow the "Jewish" laws as well. His teachings were "love and do not judge, and I will not judge you" not "do whatever you want and I will not judge you."
However there is the second part, about practicing what you preach, and I believe that Christ (whom you "christians" claim to follow) also said many times, under no uncertain circumstances, "Judge not, that ye be not judged." (Matthew 7:1)
So lets quit using Jesus to hate one another. Thanks

The Bible is a great feat of literature, but to take it as anything more than that is absurd.

My own interpretation of it taught me nothing. Having read the testaments, I didn't come away with any sort of enlightenment save for a view through a window into different time when man stamped his metaphors on nature; and for that I found it interesting and often humorous. The fact that people hold it in such high regard boggles my mind, and I think it's only because they rely on other people's interpretations of the text rather than their own.

I too like to dissect doctrines in the hopes of finding any value. In the bible I found none—at least nothing that hadn't been said before—and it wasn't capable of encouraging me to generate new insights. It was a disappointing and mediocre read, having only pointed out the obvious.

But is man incapable of interpreting the bible in it's intended way? Should we bother interpreting another man's interpretations of nature (presupposing that's what the bible really is: an interpretation of the universe)? or could we come up with the same values through our very own interpretations of life around us no matter what texts we have read?

Originally posted by Starchild23
Does that make the Bible a tome of lies, or us a race of wooly headed sheep?

The bible is a book written by men. I don't think it's a tome of lies, but a tome of ignorance and a magnificent jump to conclusions. And we too are ignorant for having taken it as more. Thus, men are—and always have been—a race of wooly headed sheep.

Thank you Starchild for the thought provoking discussion.

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by Starchild23
Does that make the Bible a tome of lies, or us a race of wooly headed sheep?
I just thought I'd get this perspective out there.

Here's the deal. If you had what you considered to be the most important message of all time, and you wanted to give it to everybody and make sure they understood it, how would you present it? As a puzzle? As a riddle? As the opposite of what you really wanted to say?

Of course not. You would make it as clear and unambigious and accessible as you possibly could. And that's the reason you have to take The Bible for what it is. Men trying to fool other men.

Not true. You would lock the knowledge in symbol as a cascading lock that opens itself as the layers are understood. Why symbol? Symbol encodes more bits of information than the space the actual symbol occupies. I say it's a cascading lock because it takes a combination of information to unlock it fully. When one part can be know, this then leads to the next clue. The deeper you look into a fractal, the more you see the same thing again. Take a step back and see the larger picture.

Example:

I will speak in symbol, but add the hidden meaning so you can see it come together. This is what I think God is saying to all of us from the Bible.

Don't touch the fruit of knowledge (Technology) or you will die (kill the planet) and the temple of the spirit (Body). The flaming sword (God's consuming fire of trials) protects the tree of life (DNA). To understand, you must explore the garden (Earth) and subdue it (learn how it works). As you learn the law of the Torah (Laws of the universe in reflection), you will experience all aspects of the law as applied to a thief (Sinful nature). You will learn that being a sinner requires law that applies to taking and using the fruit of knowledge (Technology) wisely so it gives and does not take. Eventually, you will suffer tyranny at your own hands to reveal the nature of the beast you are capable of unleashing through the fruit of knowledge. As a sign to you, I will reveal that the number and mark of this beast is 666. When you know how to read the table of elements, you will finally see that 666 is Carbon, having 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. When you notice this, you will be able to then look back to the garden story in Genesis and see that the fruit was the very technology you developed to build the world. As you see your planet dieing around you, this gift of perfected technology that is bio-mechanical life will then be renewed to you once again in the form of a new heaven and a new earth. This time, you will understand the law from the reflecting point of the previous reality you experienced before. This education over time will allow you to then live in harmony with others. When you learn that the law is fulfilled in love, you will then know that there is no need for law when the one law of God is observed--love others. The law was your guardian while you were children. You are children of God until you are no longer a child.

I could keep going with all the symbols of the Bible, but this will demonstrate the point. Let me back up the above with two verses that bring the message of symbolism and our destiny into the light.

First, the law as a guardian.

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Then, the fact that we are children who are growing up. It takes God one week to raise children. That's 7 days, with each day being 1000 years. Remember what Jesus said, "you must be born again." Baptism is our immersion into the reality of the material world. The water cleanses the temple. The sacrifice here leads to the true reality of the spiritual world later. The earth is a womb. We emerged from the mother after a union of man and woman in love; sperm and egg by design. The Earth is then the second womb where we eventually gain union with God (Soul and Spirit). A new birth then takes place and we transition beyond the material world (Exodus form Egypt (Earth) to the promised land (New Heaven and Earth). We are baptized four ways as an education. Earth (dust of mankind), Air (Breath and language), Water (sacrifice / the Temple / and cleansing) and finally FIRE (Trials that judge our worth). Free will requires that we pass all four tests to finally realize the value of love through suffering.

1 Corinthians 13

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by Demigodly
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Wha? Moses, Jesus didn't perform 'miracles' and superhuman feats? There weren't prophets/kings/giants who lived for 800-900 hundred years? You either believe in the bible accounts or you don't. You can't cherry pick in what to believe. It discredits you.

I was speaking about a comparison between the Creation and Flood accounts specifically.

But you are right.Moses & some prophets did some miraculous things and Jesus was God, so you'd expect the miraculous in that case.

The accounts actually have God doing the miraculous things on behalf of Moses and the Prophets but I'm not going to argue here. I was just being inconsistent.

Interesting...and yet you cherry pick on what rules and commandments to follow. Considering we just finished discussing how over 75% of the commandments were excluded from the Bible, because there were too many rules.

How does that credit any other part of the Bible?

Also, we aren't supposed to eat pork or work on SATURDAY. Not Sunday, SATURDAY. And you STILL see people disrespecting both days.

Cherry picking?

Please.

Where does it say that in the Bible?

(It doesn't)

Oh yah, kinda was answering the wrong question:
"And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. "
Leviticus 11:7-8

and with the sabbath, it gets a bit technical. Here is one article about it:
christianity.about.com...

the sabbath was on saturday for the Jews, at the time of the New Testament writing, anyways.
However, like I said, its kind of a technical matter. It takes an understanding of what a week is in the first place:
www.hermetic.ch...

So go ahead and dig in if you want I'm not going to read the whole thing to find out myself because I don't really care.
But basically, in a religious perspective, Saturday is the Sabbath, since the "Sabbath" originated from Judaism anyways, and Saturday was the sabbath to them.
In a technical way, I don't think it matters because its just a symbol anyways. If you honor Sunday like you were supposed to honor Saturday, I don't really think God's going to damn you to hell for a little mix up that you didn't cause.

reply to post by Starchild23


When searching for meanings in the bible I am reminded of my college days. More precisely, English Comp I and II. I also took a class in creative writing. The one challenge I remember most about these classes is how the students were tasked with trying to determine the author's thoughts within each story. Why did he write this chapter? What did he mean here? What was his point?...

So, when considering the bible, or Harry Potter books, or John Updike's 'A&P', if we are looking for an answer it's pretty much guaranteed that we're either going to find it, or manipulate the messages and meanings until they fit with what we want to believe (no matter how ridiculous it may seem to others).

reply to post by Shierah

"And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. "
Leviticus 11:7-8

You do know that does not apply to Christians right?

Originally posted by Shierah

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by Demigodly
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Wha? Moses, Jesus didn't perform 'miracles' and superhuman feats? There weren't prophets/kings/giants who lived for 800-900 hundred years? You either believe in the bible accounts or you don't. You can't cherry pick in what to believe. It discredits you.

I was speaking about a comparison between the Creation and Flood accounts specifically.

But you are right.Moses & some prophets did some miraculous things and Jesus was God, so you'd expect the miraculous in that case.

The accounts actually have God doing the miraculous things on behalf of Moses and the Prophets but I'm not going to argue here. I was just being inconsistent.

Interesting...and yet you cherry pick on what rules and commandments to follow. Considering we just finished discussing how over 75% of the commandments were excluded from the Bible, because there were too many rules.

How does that credit any other part of the Bible?

Also, we aren't supposed to eat pork or work on SATURDAY. Not Sunday, SATURDAY. And you STILL see people disrespecting both days.

Cherry picking?

Please.

Where does it say that in the Bible?

(It doesn't)

Matthew 23:1-3 "Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

Jesus says many times that the laws of the patriarchs should be followed :/ I'll find more quotes where it says that in the bible if you want them. So its not a question of Jewish or Christian. Jesus intended for "Christians" (not that he intended at the time for some people to all get together and decide what to tell other people about him that may or may not be true) to follow the "Jewish" laws as well. His teachings were "love and do not judge, and I will not judge you" not "do whatever you want and I will not judge you."
However there is the second part, about practicing what you preach, and I believe that Christ (whom you "christians" claim to follow) also said many times, under no uncertain circumstances, "Judge not, that ye be not judged." (Matthew 7:1)
So lets quit using Jesus to hate one another. Thanks "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every
tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat."Genesis 2:16
> "Why do you call me Lord & don't do what I say" Luke 6:46 Why? God willed it that way!
> "Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Re 22:17
>"Therefore, cheer up your hearts, and remember that ye are free to act for yourselves?-to choose the way of everlasting death or the way of eternal life." Nephi 10:23
>"And now remember, remember, my brethren, that whosoever perisheth, perisheth unto himself; and whosoever doeth iniquity, doeth it unto himself; for behold, ye are free; ye are permitted to act for yourselves; for behold, God hath given unto you a knowledge and he hath made you free." Helaman 14:30
>"..at the entrance of the tent of meeting, he should present it of his own FREE WILL before Jehovah [ god`s name]" Leviticus 1:3

And as far as god himself is concerned:

[ Quote by King Nebuchanezzar referring to God`s power, after regaining his sanity] "And all the inhabitants of the earth are being considered as merely nothing, and he is doing according to his own WILL among the army of the heavens and the inhabitants of the earth. And there exists no one that can check his hand, or that can say to him, 'What have you been doing?' " Daniel 4:35

Meaning no one can tell you what God's will is.

reply to post by Shierah


Saturday is the 7th day. If you'll notice, all modern calendars start the week on a Sunday. So why do Christians worship on the wrong day? Hm....

Originally posted by Starchild23
Also, it comes from everyone wanting to be right.

Oh no, only those that feel threatened by the truth will fight to make themselves feel in the right. I have nothing to lose, so if someone offered something that could be considered an etched-in-stone, evidence-based fact within the bible I would not only agree, but I would also be wonderfully amazed.

Great thread, by the way. S&F

I am in total agreement with you about this, OP. I too think there's a lot of history written in a strange lyrical form inside the Bible, and when I interpret them from my own Frankenstein-theory-of-everything (heavily based on the Lacerta files and the whole Elohim thing, should it be written somewhere else) it really starts coming together as a more solid "evidence" material to work on.

Originally posted by Smack
reply to post by Shierah

 

Saturday is the 7th day. If you'll notice, all modern calendars start the week on a Sunday. So why do Christians worship on the wrong day? Hm....

I don't think God named the days of the week.

If he did, it'd be peculiar that he named Wednesday after Odin
And Thursday after Thor.