Why Capitalism Is Doomed: The Contradictions at Its Core

reply to post by AwakeinNM

Yeah, but I have to wonder if that not a sort of self fulfilled prophecy of sorts.
If you gave a greedy businessman the choice of country A were he has to play fair, and is never going to be allowed to hoard the national debt in money, and country B where he can loot, rape, and pillage to his hearts content, which is he going to choose? So the big industry and banking came here, because here they can get away with pretty much anything they want. IMHO, if the playing field was a bit more even, then its questionable which would have ultimately survived longer.

Now where are they all heading?
Communist China...
Now America is failing as they flee for wherever they can make the most coin the quickest.
Communism certainly does not seem to bother them at all as long as they can reap in the profits.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
What I and others like me want is to see this nation restore capitalism the way it was supposed to be, while making the best effort to keep the system honest and transparent so that greed and corruption won't take hold like it has now.

Without corruption, a couple economic systems can work.
With corruption, none...at least not forever.

I must admit corruption takes much longer to have a giant impact in a capitalism economic system than a socialist one.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
I think that a free market creates a huge amount of waste in the form of unnecessary manufacturing...

So as I see it, this is one flaw of capitalism as it tries to satisfy consumers and maximize margins...

I totally agree with all your rant, I don't think it's directly capitalism's fault.

Let's take for example, clean energy sources.
We could all run cars on water with the right parts, or at least on something else than oil but the big companies are suppressing all clean technologies even tough this will eventually kill the planet and that we might run out of oil to make plastics, which IMO, is more important than burning it.

It would cost a lot of money to change the whole system, but I'm sure everyone could compromise for sometime for such a positive change. However, the people that actually control this whole oil fiasco, have enough money to change their business ANY DAY. They are the ones that would be least impacted monetarily because if they are smart, they can just move on elsewhere and find a new way to rape our wallet.

I don't thinks it's capitalism's fault, it's corruption.
What a plague that is.

Originally posted by defcon5
Communism certainly does not seem to bother them at all as long as they can reap in the profits.

Could we actually call it communism?

I find that communism with capitalism over it is doomed to fail.
I don't want to advocate NWO ideas but I would say that global communism as more chances of working than a communism country in a capitalist world.

Although I totally see that at this point in time, this would be total suicide.

Originally posted by silent thunder
Be that as it may, one of the things that makes Marxism pernicious is the fact that its critique of capitalism contains a lot of stinging truth.

That was exactly my own point; but what most people aren't aware of, is that the single main reason why Communists have such a strong understanding of Capitalism's problems, is because both ideologies have a single source; Masonic lodges.

Leftist might want to think back to Neo's conversation with the Architect, at the end of the Matrix Reloaded. We're dealing with exactly the same type of scenario, here. Those who go for the blue pill, get given Capitalism, (the Matrix itself, in that analogy) because they are willing to accept it. The more restive, subversively minded people, on the other hand...the proverbial redpills...need to be kept occupied (pun fully intended) with something else.

That's where Leftist comes in.

Red as a colour of course, has always been associated with Communism. Blue, in terms of the blue pill, is a traditional colour of the Republican party, and is also the colour of the material of business suits, very often; conservatism, Capitalism.

The patterns are distressingly blatant; but in the end, both options lead back to the same place.

The only problem with your post is that we do not have capitalism and haven't had it for nearly a hundred years. What we have is a hybrid of socialism/marxism/fascism. So the system you are calling capitalism is really Marxism in its various forms and that is what is failing and always has and always will.

You see there is nothing wrong with social programs to help others less fortunate etc. as long as they are 100% completely voluntary. What Marx and Lennin and others failed to understand is you cannot force charity and equality it causes resentment and inequality. People must have incentive to be productive IOW they need to be able to keep the fruits of their labors and put them to the use of their choice or fellow man of their own free will.

What all Marxist/socialist/communist want to do is steal from others by bringing government force to bear to take the fruits of their labors at gunpoint. That is why none of you creepy communist will even entertain the idea of trying it as a voluntary program. If it is so great how come millions are not volunteering to join your cause and of their own free will give the fruits of their labors to the supposed greater good? Because it does't work and has failed every time and now some snot nose kid comes along and thinks he knows how to make it work. That my friend is the definition of insanity.

But I digress your post is moot because you are using a strawman argument that has been fed to you by propagandists who have pinned the false label of capitalism on it and you don't even know it and I am sure you will argue it to death. BUT THE FACT IS WE DO NOT HAVE CAPITALISM!

/thread

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

Yeah, but I have to wonder if that not a sort of self fulfilled prophecy of sorts.
If you gave a greedy businessman the choice of country A were he has to play fair, and is never going to be allowed to hoard the national debt in money, and country B where he can loot, rape, and pillage to his hearts content, which is he going to choose? So the big industry and banking came here, because here they can get away with pretty much anything they want. IMHO, if the playing field was a bit more even, then its questionable which would have ultimately survived longer.

Now where are they all heading?
Communist China...
Now America is failing as they flee for wherever they can make the most coin the quickest.
Communism certainly does not seem to bother them at all as long as they can reap in the profits.

Agree with part of that, but... Let's not forget why U.S. companies went to places like China for labor in the first place: Unions, government regulation and taxes. I don't even want to hear from you union parrots, so save it. Making the playing field 'even' with tariffs and that sort of thing will not solve anything, either.

Those factors tilted the playing field in favor of overseas labor. The day that the U.S. is a favorable place to do business, the manufacturing base will return.

For now, unions and regulators play poker at the same table. That needs to stop.

Originally posted by Tsurugi
In the meantime, as a gesture of goodwill, I would like to highlight one part of your OP with which I was in complete agreement:

Yes, I pointed that out as well, at the time humorously also. But in all seriousness, we need to recognise that that is a form of manipulation. That image didn't have anything to do with the content of the actual post; it's simply there to make people feel more receptive to the entire post, in purely emotional terms.

The topic later came up, that Leftist was obviously a professional and did this on a regular basis, to which she then admitted that she was a professional revolutionary, and presumably trained; but if certain elements of her posts hadn't been as overtly manipulative as this one was, that probably would not have been deduced.

Speaking of which, before I went to bed earlier, I got curious as to what the terms, "cadre," and "professional revolutionary," meant. Wikipedia's entries on these terms are not large, but they did contain some information.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

I don't know whether or not in Leftist's case she is literally military; but a cadre is apparently the ideological equivalent of the advance/reconnaisance tasked scouts, of a guerilla army. They come in as a first wave; not only to conduct recon and learn the ground, as mentioned, but also to distribute information and attempt to cultivate good will among the locals, which will then be valuable in later phases, when the army proper actually moves into the area. People would benefit here from looking up the CIA's work in Nicaragua; they probably learned from the Communists themselves.



SKYNET tactics

reply to post by petrus4


Very sharp analysis.

I think that is what we have here. Interesting.

reply to post by hawkiye


What the US is at this point is an Oligarchy, a system by the rich for the rich, and handed down to their rich heirs who never did a honest days work in their entire lives.

In true capitalism a person has a chance to start with nothing, and make something of himself through hard work. Today in the US, the harder you work the more that the rich take advantage of you while at the same time bitching that you cost them too much, and threatening to outsource your job. Then they jack up the price of their services through the roof with the excuse that overhead is killing them, and list record profits. Win, win for the rich.

If you're lucky in this country now, you can retire somewhere around age 75 with the pittance of whats left in the social security system, after the rich have used every scam and fraud to remove your pensions and all the value from your 401K. If you're even luckier, you can just die while you're still employed, and never have to try living on what social security provides.

Originally posted by silent thunder
reply to post by petrus4

 

Very sharp analysis.

I think that is what we have here. Interesting.

There is deeper subtext within this image, as well; and it is actually a very effective illustration of the entire Communist strategy, as far as vanguardism or "winning hearts and minds," is concerned. The CIA explicitly described it as part of what they used in Nicaragua.

The trick is to take an element which your audience is going to agree with, and which is going to appeal to them, (a blonde woman with large breasts, in the case of American men) on the one hand, and then use that as a vehicle to gain acceptance for things which your audience might otherwise have problems with. (The hammer and sickle)

There are a couple of other very subtle tricks which have been repeatedly employed by the Leftists that I've spoken to on this forum as well, which I think need to be made overt here.

The first thing you'll notice, when you talk to a Communist, is that at the start of any conversation, there are a couple of implicit assumptions made, even before the conversation begins.

a] That everyone present implicitly agrees with what the Communist says, already.
b] That everyone already is Communist; they just don't know it yet. ("Hello comrades.")

There's a second half of this, which involves a certain amount of doublethink, which is used to handle potential disagreements or objections that may come up from the audience. It's something Occupy spokespeople use.

This is an assumption on the Communist's part, that Communism is always going to be something that is inherently desirable to the audience, and that the only reason why objections or disagreements might come up, is because the individual who voices them does not have sufficient information on a given point; not that Communist ideas could ever be legitimately erroneous or undesirable.

This is, in other words, the basis of why the dissemination of information, involves attempts at mind control and manipulation. It is assumed that the individual's preconceptions are the only reason why they would not want to be Communist; so the idea is to use such things as appealing visual elements (the large breasted blonde here) as means of getting past whatever initial ambivalence or resistance an individual might have.

reply to post by defcon5


Oligarchy goes hand in hand with Marxism because the few at the top who run the state that is supposed to enforce equality funnel all the wealth to themselves and pretend to fairly dole it out to the people when in reality the people a get a few crumbs. Today the elite got there by buying the government so the politically connected run rough shod over the rest who are regulated out of business and numb skulls call that capitalism and then they call for more government to try and fix it when government is what created it and enables it.

These deluded Marxists are pathetically brainwashed by media, fluoridated water, chemical laced & GMO foods, and vaccines among other things and don't even know it...

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by Mike.Ockizard

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
That's quite an impressive piece of propaganda you put together.

So what you'd rather have is a labor force who is employed at menial jobs that are not rewarding whatsoever and don't pay anything. A workforce who lives in tenement buildings and can barely make ends meet, who buy all their groceries at the state food market, where there are perpetual shortages...

Oh wait, I forgot that you brainwashed Omaba socialists believe that "American" socialism won't be the same as Chinese or Soviet socialism - it will be all rainbows and gummy bears and we'll all sit around singing kumbaya in the backyards of our 4500 square foot mansionettes because O mighty benevolent ruler Obama will redistribute the wealth to everyone and all those bad things in those other socialist countries won't happen because this is America, dammit


now theres an intelligent response.... ATS has gone doen the tubes. Have a nice day.

Dream on, sister. You've been tricked.

Just watch Zeitgeist the Addendum. says it all. Capitalism is slavery. Things could have worked out better for longer if the central banks never came into the picture....

Oh joy. Another brainwashed Obamatard.

Why are there so many intellectually deficient people here? Has the indoctrination been that effective? Is there no one who can think for themselves anymore?

How about you use your brain rather than relying on movies and TV to tell you what is factual and what is fantasy.

By the way, love the name. What are you... eleven?

edit on 20-3-2012 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

Nice. Guess you are still enslaved and obviously asleep. Do your homework little boy. Watch the vid and research the case they make. I did.

oh, and try proofreading your post.

Originally posted by hawkiye
These deluded Marxists are pathetically brainwashed by media, fluoridated water, chemical laced & GMO foods, and vaccines among other things and don't even know it...

People who are taken in by this deserve our empathy, not our contempt.

Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism by Robert Jay Lifton.

Mind control was pioneered by the early Communists. Their tactics have been honed over a period of nearly 150 years, within numerous theatres, both civilian and military; and at this point are very highly sophisticated.

The only reason why I can identify them when I see them, is because I specifically devoted somewhere between two and four years to studying both mind control and the tactics of guerilla warfare. Your average civilian has absolutely no chance whatsoever; especially given with the current Capitalist crash, virtually everything a Communist is going to point out about contemporary conditions, is likely to be true.

Originally posted by CriticalCK

Originally posted by TDawgRex
I call that the OP is a seminar caller or actually a seminar poster.

Well read, and obviously educated, but yet delusional in the fact that Communism has always failed and always will.

Why will Communism fail? As always…human nature.

Capitalists are always at the forefront of technological leaps. The communists are always playing catch up.

I disagree.

Communism simply requires an administration without human nature - maybe through a system of check and balances. Moreover, capitalism is solely based on human nature.

You are wrong about technological leaps. Capitalism fails to produce R&D in sectors that are not profitable. Such as space exploration, fundamental science, experimental physics, archelogy, medicine that cures and so on and on. These branches of science are the most important in order to evolve human civilization, unfortunately they are not profitable.
Science always leaped forward in times where the state was strong and the free markets relatively controled. In times of war and totalitary systems.

Im not asking for totalitarian regime though, just more government expenditure in sciences.

You are completely devoid and barren of any knowledge or facts of history and filled with garbage rhetoric by propagandists. I suggest you study some actual history rather then take propagandists word for things.

Oh and we already have a centrally planned economy and monetary system that is why it is failing. Who are these central planners? None other then the Federal Reserve Central Banking cartel.

Originally posted by hawkiye
You are completely devoid and barren of any knowledge or facts of history and filled with garbage rhetoric by propagandists. I suggest you study some actual history rather then take propagandists word for things.

That isn't actually true. It's been proven that Capitalism makes money on the basis of things being pathological and dysfunctional. Solutions that work are bad in Capitalist terms, because they mean that once said solution has been purchased, no more money gets paid.

I'm not, for one moment, trying to discourage you from being a Capitalist apologist, necessarily; but you are going to have to raise the quality of your rhetoric.

Originally posted by User8911

Originally posted by allprowolfy
Capitalism always works as long as you keep the free and open "market" out of the hands of the legislatures-government.

Totally impossible, monopoly will eventually take place then capitalism changes to corporatism and slavery.

Wrong monopoly only takes place through government cronyism protecting markets and regulating competition out of business for the politically connected/protected.

I'm also going to make a statement to Leftist, here, after the last post I've just written.

Although s/he won't say it, if she's been reading my posts in this thread, she will likely be thinking internally that if she doesn't get more sympathic responses, I'm likely to be the main reason why. My goal here, however, is not to be the enemy, despite how it may appear.

I am in a terrible dilemma where Communism is concerned, and have been for several years now. My heart is at war with my head. I do very much believe, that Communism as a specific ideology, was delivered to Marx for public dissemination, by the Illuminati, and that the same thing was done with Capitalism as well. This was done as part of their long term plan for eternal, irremovable, universal human enslavement.

At the same time, however, I do recognise that revolutionary activity in some form, is genuinely necessary if humanity has any chance of ultimately, and finally freeing itself; not only from the current Capitalist mess, but truthfully from the entire, larger, literally Satanic framework that the Eye has kept us trapped in, for possibly tens of thousands of years; which includes both Capitalism and Communism, as mentioned.



We need, however, to proceed extremely thoughtfully, and with a great deal of caution. There needs to be an emphasis on the regaining of individual sovereignty, and on communities which are decentralised and locally focussed; not on a single, centralised, world federalist government. My primary objection to Communism is associated specifically with the concept of the Internationale; I cringe whenever I hear calls to global unity, because I know who inspired those calls, and I know for what purpose.

We also must proceed by using means which are ethically compatible with the ends that we have in view. That means avoiding the use of mind control or manipulation as part of our communication with people. We must work to both restore and honour the sovereignty of every individual, rather than disempowering them; and the only way that we can do that, is with the truth.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by hawkiye
You are completely devoid and barren of any knowledge or facts of history and filled with garbage rhetoric by propagandists. I suggest you study some actual history rather then take propagandists word for things.

That isn't actually true. It's been proven that Capitalism makes money on the basis of things being pathological and dysfunctional. Solutions that work are bad in Capitalist terms, because they mean that once said solution has been purchased, no more money gets paid.

I'm not, for one moment, trying to discourage you from being a Capitalist apologist, necessarily; but you are going to have to raise the quality of your rhetoric.

edit on 21-3-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

No your going to have to show this proof you're claiming. You can't and there is none and you will not show it because of that. You'll just continue to use the troll tactic of circular argument. So come on smart guy step and show us the proof???

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by hawkiye
You are completely devoid and barren of any knowledge or facts of history and filled with garbage rhetoric by propagandists. I suggest you study some actual history rather then take propagandists word for things.

That isn't actually true. It's been proven that Capitalism makes money on the basis of things being pathological and dysfunctional. Solutions that work are bad in Capitalist terms, because they mean that once said solution has been purchased, no more money gets paid.

I'm not, for one moment, trying to discourage you from being a Capitalist apologist, necessarily; but you are going to have to raise the quality of your rhetoric.

edit on 21-3-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

No your going to have to show this proof you're claiming. You can't and there is none and you will not show it because of that. You'll just continue to use the troll tactic of circular argument. So come on smart guy step and show us the proof???

Your aggression aside, doing so is extremely simple. I can illustrate the point by asking you a single question.

When was the last time you bought any kind of consumer product, which was either designed to be non-disposable, modular, or user serviceable, or did not have obsolescence inherently built in?

Maybe the best conclusion to draw here, is that Capitalists are like free-range chickens, Communists are like cooped chickens. In the end we're all really just chickens, and we'll all end up in the same elitists pots, used for their ends.

It's all slavery, it just depends on how long your chains are.

I will have to say though, that as a Christian, true communism at least supports the idea that you are equal with your fellow man, and you should love your brother as yourself. Where Capitalism is all about greed, worldliness, and feeling superior to your fellow man.