HC's Ancient Aliens last episode "The Mystery of Puma Punku" DEVASTATED the show haters.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by Phage

 

OMG did I actually catch you off guard??? holy crap I think I may just stop now and enjoy patting myself on the back.......... naaaahhhhhhhh!!!!

more seriously though, I'm asking not as a taunt but what can you imagine could substitute something with a hardness scale of 7 or more without using modern techniques? why are you ignoring the 800lb gorilla in the room? how did they meet the physical requirements necessary to cut through that stone with your as-yet-unnamed "natural materials" within a reasonable timeframe?(forget the sophistication of the work, that's a whole other issue you can't answer with "ingenuity", well you can but you'd sound trite)

ps
you still haven't provided examples of "natural materials"

edit on 17-3-2012 by bottleslingguy because: (no reason given)

My father was a Watchmaker and Jeweller.

He cut diamonds.

Do you think he used some sort of alien technology?

I don't.

reply to post by Phage


I said I was interested in what you thought partner. Not entirely off topic as it is encompassed by the word ancient. So nyah.

Two places built high up above the tree line where the air may also be thinner and easier for different beings to breathe. We weren't shown all the rocks on television. The experts want to figure it out before the viewers do.
I would say the Ancient Aliens didn't want stone age people of earth, who were probably very violent, to bother them so they built on remote mountain top areas. Maybe mining was done near the Nacaz lines and the band of holes. The smelting was done with the Puma Pumku molds. They look lazer cut, and like factory molds for UFOs. This was not a spiritual place, or a residential housing complex. So the Ancient Aliens wrote in summerian, had math skills, lasers, flight ability, and nuclear abilities. Did the show researchers say the measured for radiation? I think that was left out. How long does radiation last anyways? They also thought a kenetic energy bomb by a direct hit from a meterorite caused the massive destruction. But then did they check for the meterorite fragments such as irridium, or perdoites, or iron, etc...? It seems they have alot more research and testing to do.

The aliens probably do not want earthlings using their technology, going into space, and being a nusiance to other places in the universe. It's like a company in today's world not wanting other companies to copy or utilize their secrets and technologies. Competitve markets. Destroy the knowledge. Knowledge is power.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by cripmeister

I know trolling and what 1AnnunakiBastard is doing with this thread is trolling for AA haters.

BS

FORGET THE TV SHOW AND TELL US HOW THEY CUT THE GODDAMN STONES BACK THEN

Lots of ways, depending on the type of stone, its crystal structure, the type of cut, the amount of material to be moved, all sorts of things that stone cutters use today to do the same things (note: them people who create headstones and facings/carvings for buildings today don't use plasma torches and lasers).

You are attributing amazing technologies to stuff we have literally been doing since the stone age.

All you are showing is your ignorance.

The usual method is to create some sort of slight weakness and then whack the stone with force sufficient to cause a crack along that weakness. That is how you 'cut' stone.

Then to polish it you take something soft enough to embed a hard grinding powder in (wood/bronze/clay or whatever) and you abrade the bumps off.

None of it is particularly high tech.

Sheesh...!

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
As someone who has used carving tools as a profession for 25 years my opinion is that the stones at Puma Punku were not cut by people with hand tools. That level of precision is simply not feasible particularly on a large scale such as this.
Either the ruins here are much much older than suspected or Earth's geologic history needs to be re-written to accommodate the lifting of continental plates thousands of feet in a relatively short span of time, and possibly both..

(I was an engraver by trade and did deep relief carving such as signet rings with family crests etc)

edit on 18-3-2012 by Asktheanimals because: added comment

These are larger works that you are comparing your skills with.

They didn't have to use "hand tools". There was no requirement for them to be hand held.

They could have used, say a polishing stone, on the end of a lever.

Then you could polish large areas all day without getting achingly tired.

They'd also be flatter than if you tried using hand held tools.

Maybe I missed it, but what I haven't seen discussed is the fact that this is all at 14,000 feet elevation. That's not an altitude where most people would be considering doing heavy lifting and the mass moving of huge pieces of stone to an even higher elevation. Those buildings were put at that altitude for a reason, either to hide them from outsiders or for another purpose.

Wherever these monuments are built, besides the usual questions of 'how the hell did they cut that out and move it?' I also keep wondering about the expense in food and manpower involved. Neither Bolivia nor Egypt is famous for unlimited food resources, not now and not then. Even if you explain away the building projects by 'thousands of men' working full time for years, you still have the extra logistics of feeding them, housing them nearby, providing water for them. The logistics and use of resources would have been immense. The size of the cities to house them would also have been immense. Just to build a tomb for a pharaoh? Starting at the beginning of his reign without knowing how long he would live? Really? Obvious some critical information is missing here...

It's all explained away by the archeologists as 'the people loved Pharoah and wanted to show him their devotion' and the manpower was supposedly not doing anything else with their time during the yearly floods. Or something... and yet every relatively primitive society we see today has their hands full just surviving and not a lot of free time; no where are these pyramids being built today.

Even today's skyscrapers are only being built because there are billions of dollars being invested and the effort of tens of thousands of well paid highly skilled persons, from the foundries to the architects to the construction crane builders to the...these are not people living on bread, a little bit of fish and beer and living in mud huts. Where was all the grain being grown to supply the bread and beer??? In fact when you consider it, it takes the resources of the entire planet to build a skyscraper now; that's how far away the materials sometimes come from and are shipped in from those distances. Consider what we would be building locally if all our material and manpower and food and other energy had to come from local; when's the last time you build a big stone monument in your backyard in your spare time? Why on Earth would you bother?

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by 1AnunnakiBastard
I guess we can have a slight idea about power tools being used to build those megalithic structures in the Andes, if we take a look at the statues of the so called "Tula" warriors, who according to the local traditions were giant African-like stonemasons always seen in the company of Quetzalcoatl. They are usually depicted bearing something hanging in their waist, that looks A LOT like power tools in holsters.



Of course the naysayers will say that those objects are "fancy chisels", "stone hammers" or perhaps "ceremonial magic wands"...

The problem is....

There are no rusted power tools, no aliens, no diamond cutters, no lasers, no nothing that wasn't primitive tools. Present one of these and you got me, but hey... if there isn't anything to prove it, maybe, just maybe, they used primitive, but effective methods.

Oh BTW do you think their alien power tools would actually look like something from Lowes...geez. Our mind likes to associate things with what is familiar to us, it is how we remember. You ever wonder why you see things in random clouds? AND now you know why you see such familiar things in ancient works.

Think about it...it's a power tool because that is what you want it to be....

Definite levitation. See, they are lifting themselves up by the bootstraps!

Originally posted by chr0naut
You are attributing amazing technologies to stuff we have literally been doing since the stone age.

All you are showing is your ignorance.

What they are doing is displaying the epitome of closed-mindedness. The ancient alien proponents say it would be been impossible for these cultures to achieve these feats and their followers take it as gospel, with no supporting evidence, with no further investigation. Then they scoff at mainstream archaeologist, who have been studying these cultures for decades, collecting the evidence to support their conclusions. They tell us the mainstream archaeologists are wrong, not based on any evidence whatsoever but because their masters among the alien proponents say so.

And then they tell us we are closed-minded, incapable of thinking for ourselves or inable to "think outside the box".

Originally posted by MysterX

It's simply impossible for a primitive, stone age culture to even have concieved of, much less produced the monuments we see in these programmes..period. The people had to either have been of a very high technological standard, other than is officially thought..or they didn't build them and 'somebody' else did.

This is basically the essence what all the AA theory is about - but even as someone who thinks that the AA theory makes a lot of sense i do NOT want to come to premature conclusions.

Short: I cannot believe in a "more speculative" explanation if an ordinary explanation cannot be 100% DISPROVEN as false first.

Eg. I cannot believe the pyramids were built using some "out there" technology when there is still a way they COULD have done it "by hand", even if it needed 500.000 people working like mad 18 hours a day...etc..etc..

What i am saying....the show, the authors etc. would OWE it to the AA theory that it was impossible to do in a conventional way. But in this regards the show is somewhat lacking, in particular with that Puma Punku episode.i want to see EVIDENCE that it was impossible to do. And this evidence was not given. Period. Touching the smooth surfaces and measuring angles etc. does not provide evidence...and the thing with the "trees" was stupid as well. So according to him it was "impossible" they used trees to roll the blocks because PP is above the tree line - but totally leaving out the possibility they simple brought trees up there for that purpose? If we're already dealing with a project on such a scale it would not be anything special if they ALSO brought up trees/stems to the site so they can move the blocks.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by jimnuggits

 

The only way we could accomplish this is with a computer and laser guided diamond tipped bit

Argument from incredulity

and yours is the argument pulled out of your azz "natural materials" gimme a break or at least give some examples of how it was done.

Originally posted by Phage
I see no reason to invoke an extraterrestrial influence upon ancient South Americans or any other early civilizations.

well they didn't get that memo because they say it was people from the stars. You can make up imaginary stories of how ingenuity can cut stones like these til the cows come home but it ain't advancing your theory one bit.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Phage
I see no reason to invoke an extraterrestrial influence upon ancient South Americans or any other early civilizations.

well they didn't get that memo because they say it was people from the stars. You can make up imaginary stories of how ingenuity can cut stones like these til the cows come home but it ain't advancing your theory one bit.

Yes, but it totally demolishes yours.

reply to post by chr0naut

did he build Puma Punku?

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
The mountain gorilla was "re-discovered” on October 17, 1902,
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally discovered 25,00 years ago By Romans

I think that was a different species.

OK that is 90 years ago if you want to be approximate, not 100 years ago but close enough.

That (1902) was 110 years ago, we are in 2012.

Just as we hear tales of people describing Bigfoot as the native Americans knew them. For all we know a tribe of Sasquatch built Puma Punku.

Not very likely, as there aren't any references (that I know) of a Sasquatch-like creature in South America.

And perhaps "what if" Sasquatch is native to this planet and we humans are not. How would we know.

We sure look native to this planet, as we share many characteristics with all other living things on it.

reply to post by chr0naut

you aren't talking about the stones in question or how it was done thousands of years ago

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by chr0naut

 

did he build Puma Punku?

Well, he's older than me, so... he must have,

reply to post by chr0naut

he never gave an answer nor can anybody else. "Soften the stone with leaves" gimme a break you guys are silly

Originally posted by signalfire
Maybe I missed it, but what I haven't seen discussed is the fact that this is all at 14,000 feet elevation. That's not an altitude where most people would be considering doing heavy lifting and the mass moving of huge pieces of stone to an even higher elevation. Those buildings were put at that altitude for a reason, either to hide them from outsiders or for another purpose.

For those that are born at that altitude, it's natural, they can do what we can without any problems, and while we have problems because of the thinner air at that altitude, the people from places like that have problems when at lower altitudes.

Before anyone starts getting upset, I'm not invoking aliens here, but I am suggesting that most of what the mainstream knows about this site are "best guesses" based on generic theories, including how such heavy stones were moved. The well-sourced Wikipedia page even shows that.

Is anyone going to address the fact that this one site is completely unique in the whole civilization that it is attributed to? Are we going to discuss the fact that none of the other Tiwanaku sites in the area look similar, or that none of them featured precision duplication/pre-fabrication techniques? What about the fact that no one has found earlier work from this society that demonstrates an improvement of technique over time that led to their use of interlocking blocks, detailed, precise geometric cuts in and through solid stone, etc? Wouldn't we see evidence of this elsewhere in the area if there was a learning curve in the skills and tool-making to get to this point?

The more precise things get in crafting, the more you are relying on tools, yet we don't have any at this site. The tools themselves would have to be precision-built so that they don't move around and make a mess while you are cutting into things and trying to make perfect or near perfect cuts or surfaces. Stop and think about the tools we have to use to do this today. No one has mentioned the fact that the tools would have to be at least as advanced as these other concepts we see here. You can't just throw some kind of polishing/cutting wheel on some wooden posts and ropes and think you are going to get such precision.

As far as I have seen, this is the only ancient site on the planet that has this kind of precision. It seems to me this stuff makes the blocks on the pyramids look like Lincoln Logs. I prefer to start with the fact that the site *may* not have been built by these people. That doesn't mean humans didn't do it, but it certainly opens a can of worms.