HC's Ancient Aliens last episode "The Mystery of Puma Punku" DEVASTATED the show haters.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by chr0naut

 

he never gave an answer nor can anybody else. "Soften the stone with leaves" gimme a break you guys are silly

Did you see in the video where the "ancients" had created a groove and then drilled some holes in a stone? Why did they do that?

The groove was created by rubbing with something harder or as hard as the stone itself. I.e: they could have used a chip of the very stone they are abrading! Gosh how very high tech. And when the abrading stone got blunt, you just smash off the blunt bit and go at it again with the sharp edge. It also requires that you have water to wash away the stone dust. Perhaps the ancient aliens carted the water up the mountain for them?

To drill a hole, especially such a small diameter one, you need straight dowels of wood, with some sort of organic gum on the end, into which is mixed some sort of very hard grinding powder (at least as hard as the stone you are drilling). you then can twist the sticks by hand or you can use a bow with the string twisted around the stick. Pulling the bow back and forward, rotates the stick. You have to keep washing out the hole with water but we have plenty of that due to the aliens.

When you have enough of these straight holes, you can stop drilling, whew!

Up here in the mountains, it gets freezingly cold at night. So you pour water into the groove (& down into the drilled holes) knowing that water, when it turns to ice, expands and puts pressure on the inside of the drilled holes.

In the morning, before the rock heats up in the sunshine, you hammer on the rock, so as to cause a crack to form in the weakest part of the stone (where you have drilled the holes, if you have done everything properly).

Continuous, enthusiastic whacking will cause the stone to cleave off.

Instead of chipping off every bit of stone with a chisel, which is hard and would take ages, you have made several, easy to drill, tiny holes and have caused a weakness that allows you to split the stone in a controlled way. So much faster & easier than a chisel.

Then because the stone is rough and you want it smooth & shiny (well the king does, and you'll get hit with a whip if you don't do it right), you take your polishing lever/arm, tie it all down to the stone and using the arm you make the polishing stone move back and forth over the surface while the apprentice pours the water over the stone. You do this for the next week or two until the surface is flat and shiny. If there are any bumps in the surface, you have to polish them down too. Bummer. This could take weeks to get right.

... and that is how you do it.

2 guys, three weeks and a square meter of cut and polished stone. Multiply that by a population who are always looking for a better/easier way to do it and you have quite a little stone working industry that will make your tribe the envy of every other one.

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by chr0naut

 

he never gave an answer nor can anybody else. "Soften the stone with leaves" gimme a break you guys are silly

Did you see in the video where the "ancients" had created a groove and then drilled some holes in a stone? Why did they do that?

The groove was created by rubbing with something harder or as hard as the stone itself. I.e: they could have used a chip of the very stone they are abrading! Gosh how very high tech. And when the abrading stone got blunt, you just smash off the blunt bit and go at it again with the sharp edge. It also requires that you have water to wash away the stone dust. Perhaps the ancient aliens carted the water up the mountain for them?

To drill a hole, especially such a small diameter one, you need straight dowels of wood, with some sort of organic gum on the end, into which is mixed some sort of very hard grinding powder (at least as hard as the stone you are drilling). you then can twist the sticks by hand or you can use a bow with the string twisted around the stick. Pulling the bow back and forward, rotates the stick. You have to keep washing out the hole with water but we have plenty of that due to the aliens.

When you have enough of these straight holes, you can stop drilling, whew!

Up here in the mountains, it gets freezingly cold at night. So you pour water into the groove (& down into the drilled holes) knowing that water, when it turns to ice, expands and puts pressure on the inside of the drilled holes.

In the morning, before the rock heats up in the sunshine, you hammer on the rock, so as to cause a crack to form in the weakest part of the stone (where you have drilled the holes, if you have done everything properly).

Continuous, enthusiastic whacking will cause the stone to cleave off.

Instead of chipping off every bit of stone with a chisel, which is hard and would take ages, you have made several, easy to drill, tiny holes and have caused a weakness that allows you to split the stone in a controlled way. So much faster & easier than a chisel.

Then because the stone is rough and you want it smooth & shiny (well the king does, and you'll get hit with a whip if you don't do it right), you take your polishing lever/arm, tie it all down to the stone and using the arm you make the polishing stone move back and forth over the surface while the apprentice pours the water over the stone. You do this for the next week or two until the surface is flat and shiny. If there are any bumps in the surface, you have to polish them down too. Bummer. This could take weeks to get right.

... and that is how you do it.

2 guys, three weeks and a square meter of cut and polished stone. Multiply that by a population who are always looking for a better/easier way to do it and you have quite a little stone working industry that will make your tribe the envy of every other one.

edit on 18/3/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

You make it all sound so easy, but all you are really talking about here is making a semi-flat surface. Call up your local granite supplier and ask what is needed to work with that stone or any stone. Making inside edges and cuts is also a whole different ball game as well. I think you might want to go back and look at still shots of some of those cuts. Better yet, take some photos down to local stone workers and ask them what is needed to duplicate them, and how much it would cost you. Would be an interesting experiment.

Also, I scientists know the difference between concrete and stone. I don't know if it was mentioned here, but concrete was ruled out.

Originally posted by JeepEscape
The tools themselves would have to be precision-built so that they don't move around and make a mess while you are cutting into things and trying to make perfect or near perfect cuts or surfaces.

"Move around"? A hammer doesn't "move around", unless you make it.

Stop and think about the tools we have to use to do this today.

Hammer and chisel are enough. To draw the cuts in the stone, a pencil, some sticks and a rope.

You can't just throw some kind of polishing/cutting wheel on some wooden posts and ropes and think you are going to get such precision.

I don't remember anyone talking about polishing/cutting wheels, as I don't think they needed that originally.

I wrote this earlier and I believe it still to be valid and that some if not most would agree after viewing the evidence that History channel omitted
.
These structures in Peru were built by advanced men using methods forgotten to us. A technology not like our own, a more natural technology using forces already present. Anything from sonic acoustic tech to hydro/water/wind/sun tech.

These structures had nothing to do with aliens but has everything to do with a lost history of mankind that supported a level of technology that was not recorded in history. To assume that they were made by aliens is a amazing compliment to our ancient relatives who did build these structures. I am sure they would have a great laugh.

We should give more credit to these ancients and figure out how we did it then rather then giving credit to aliens. I can see where this logic comes from since mainstream archaeology points to the ancient world as being religious savages that were good at piling rocks and that nothing really existed worthy of recording before 10,000 b.c.


In time evidence will be found as usual and the foot prints of mankind's emergence will be uncovered. Be patient.

The legend of a particular white God has also survived to our day from all the ancient civilizations of Central and South America. The Toltecs and Aztec of Mexico called him Quetzalcoatl, the Incas called him Viracoha, to the Maya he was Kukulcan who brought their laws, also their script, and was worshiped like a god by the people. To the Chibchas he was Bochia, the White Mantle of Light. To those of Peru he was Hyustus, and to this day they will tell you that he was fair, and had blue eyes.

According to two of the chroniclers White Men with beards turned up on the shores of Lake Titicaca, built a great city, and taught the inhabitants a more civilized way of life. The Indians said that the White Gods built this city 2000 years before the time of the Incas.

Since the White God had come to the Indians long ago wearing a black beret, and a black gown, then as Cortes arrived he wore both these and landed almost in the same spot where it was said the White God had bid his people farewell, promising to come back, but with Cortes came white men who were mercenaries and adventurers who were not interested in this civilization. They wanted gold and treasures, but the language survived and the Indians still speak the Maya language, the Aztec, and other original languages, and they did not understand the Spanish lust for gold.

People living in the Peruvian highlands still have features very like the old statues and head‑shaped jugs found. And as of old the Indians salute to a stranger whom they trust is Viracocha...meaning White God. If you enter an Indian hut in the Yucatan jungle; join the elders around their fires on the icy Bolivian plateau; talk to the Indians in the jungle on the banks of the Amazon; wherever you go you hear this legend of the White men with beards who came in the dim past and became Gods of the New World

Originally posted by JeepEscape

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by chr0naut

 

he never gave an answer nor can anybody else. "Soften the stone with leaves" gimme a break you guys are silly

Did you see in the video where the "ancients" had created a groove and then drilled some holes in a stone? Why did they do that?

The groove was created by rubbing with something harder or as hard as the stone itself. I.e: they could have used a chip of the very stone they are abrading! Gosh how very high tech. And when the abrading stone got blunt, you just smash off the blunt bit and go at it again with the sharp edge. It also requires that you have water to wash away the stone dust. Perhaps the ancient aliens carted the water up the mountain for them?

To drill a hole, especially such a small diameter one, you need straight dowels of wood, with some sort of organic gum on the end, into which is mixed some sort of very hard grinding powder (at least as hard as the stone you are drilling). you then can twist the sticks by hand or you can use a bow with the string twisted around the stick. Pulling the bow back and forward, rotates the stick. You have to keep washing out the hole with water but we have plenty of that due to the aliens.

When you have enough of these straight holes, you can stop drilling, whew!

Up here in the mountains, it gets freezingly cold at night. So you pour water into the groove (& down into the drilled holes) knowing that water, when it turns to ice, expands and puts pressure on the inside of the drilled holes.

In the morning, before the rock heats up in the sunshine, you hammer on the rock, so as to cause a crack to form in the weakest part of the stone (where you have drilled the holes, if you have done everything properly).

Continuous, enthusiastic whacking will cause the stone to cleave off.

Instead of chipping off every bit of stone with a chisel, which is hard and would take ages, you have made several, easy to drill, tiny holes and have caused a weakness that allows you to split the stone in a controlled way. So much faster & easier than a chisel.

Then because the stone is rough and you want it smooth & shiny (well the king does, and you'll get hit with a whip if you don't do it right), you take your polishing lever/arm, tie it all down to the stone and using the arm you make the polishing stone move back and forth over the surface while the apprentice pours the water over the stone. You do this for the next week or two until the surface is flat and shiny. If there are any bumps in the surface, you have to polish them down too. Bummer. This could take weeks to get right.

... and that is how you do it.

2 guys, three weeks and a square meter of cut and polished stone. Multiply that by a population who are always looking for a better/easier way to do it and you have quite a little stone working industry that will make your tribe the envy of every other one.

edit on 18/3/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

You make it all sound so easy, but all you are really talking about here is making a semi-flat surface. Call up your local granite supplier and ask what is needed to work with that stone or any stone. Making inside edges and cuts is also a whole different ball game as well. I think you might want to go back and look at still shots of some of those cuts. Better yet, take some photos down to local stone workers and ask them what is needed to duplicate them, and how much it would cost you. Would be an interesting experiment.

Also, I scientists know the difference between concrete and stone. I don't know if it was mentioned here, but concrete was ruled out.

Expensive, but do-able, when do you want to pick it up? Next week, fine.

PS: How long did it take before MIT finally did some chemical analysis of the "limestone blocks" of the great pyramid and finally said that they were concreted? It had been theorized by a french materials scientist for nearly 20 years before MIT confirmed it last year.

... Not that I'm saying the stone at Puma Punku was concreted, it's just that the final forms they were using make it look a lot that way.

Or how about that they rough cut the base stones and filled the holes in the surface with concreted Diorite dust before polishing?

There are so many potential answers to this that your narrow view and experience are hiding.

Sorry.

Very interesting post. The show sometimes seems to make some jumps in assumptions but not this one. The video Looks especially good on the new iPad 3!

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier

Originally discovered 25,00 years ago By Romans

I think that was a different species.

I think he is referring to an account by Hanno the Navigator (a Carthaginian, not Roman) who described an animal that may have been a gorilla. Though it is debatable.

While ancient alien proponents criticize Western scientists for not believing in the gorilla, they do so ignoring one thing while not understanding why Western scientist were not right to accept the existence of the gorilla. What they ignore is all the myths and legends that are shown to not be true; just because one story is shown to be true, it does not mean every other myth and legend is true.

And what the ancient alien proponents don't understand about the gorilla is that the animal, as described in the stories of those who lived near them, never existed. That there is a large, hairy, man-like beast is where the similarities begin and end. If we were to follow the logic of the ancient alien proponents, scientists have not found the gorilla, at least not the one of myth.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
.
These structures in Peru were built by advanced men using methods forgotten to us. A technology not like our own, a more natural technology using forces already present. Anything from sonic acoustic tech to hydro/water/wind/sun tech.

But why use all this advance tech on stone? Why build with huge stone slabs when there must have been other more advance building materials. Why not use steel beams or other advance material...we are talking raw stone here...lol

It would be like if we had everything today but all our buildings were raw slabs of stone. I don't mind going down the advance path, but there is NOTHING to support it. I just cannot see the logic that they would be primitive in everything but had advance tools for building, but elected to use raw rock as their material.
I say they used raw rock because everything about them was primitive.

It seems the ancient alien proponents in this thread are still operating under the assumption that Pumapunku was constructed of diorite and granite.

For those of you who are still holding fast to this (false) claim, can you site a single, non-ancient-alien-proponent source that supports the diorite and granite claim. Can you produce a single source, again, non-ancient-alien-proponent, that says these materials are near-impossible for the cultures that worked them to do so without space-age technologies. A single source, please.

Let me save you the trouble. You can't. There is a reason for that.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by signalfire
Maybe I missed it, but what I haven't seen discussed is the fact that this is all at 14,000 feet elevation. That's not an altitude where most people would be considering doing heavy lifting and the mass moving of huge pieces of stone to an even higher elevation. Those buildings were put at that altitude for a reason, either to hide them from outsiders or for another purpose.

For those that are born at that altitude, it's natural, they can do what we can without any problems, and while we have problems because of the thinner air at that altitude, the people from places like that have problems when at lower altitudes.

Right. And there's precious few people living at that altitude. They are literally at the limit of what is humanly possible. Therefore, few workers, scarce resources including wood, water and fuel for fires, as well as animals or vegetation for food. And there's a reason chewing on coca leaves is popular in that culture, it allows sustained work at altitude. It's like trying to build Las Vegas out in the middle of the desert without modern electricity to help you. Only a people unconcerned with power sources would consider it which makes the Bolivian monuments all the more incredible.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I say they used raw rock because everything about them was primitive.

There was nothing primitive about the people of Tiwanaku. Despite what the ancient alien proponent lie about, the Tiwanaku were not a stone-age culture. They had math, they had art, they had a complicated writing system known as Quipu, they had an advanced form of irrigation and crop production that protected yields from the worst droughts and freezes. The archaeological record shows a culture every bit as advanced as European cultures of the time. However, the ancient alien proponents need us to believe that Tiwanaku was a stone-age culture in order for us to believe they were incapable of constructing Pumapunku.

Originally posted by PerfectPerception

Originally posted by redrezo
This is gonna get a hell of a lot more attention from archaeologists when we finally get the smoking gun (ufo crash) we've all been waiting for in may.

Where do you get May from?

please don't tell me it is the cylons!? fracking toasters.

set lasers to kill boys!

Stay optimistic my friend,one day,who knows...right?

edit on 18-3-2012 by PerfectPerception because: (no reason given)

This isn't optimism, this is a 3d sonar graph of a 200ft circular anomaly with a 900ft churned up track in the gulf of Bothina, and it is exactly what it looks like, a large heavy 60m disc that hit the ocean floor at high velocity.

Unless the U.S Navy is able to play spoilsport before lindberg and his crew can discover the wreckage in may, this is going to change everything.

Frankly, I'm not sure why there's so much of an argument over this. Of course, nobody wants to believe it was aliens. So what if it wasn't? Humans have been mostly the same for like 100 thousand years. Why is it so hard to entertain the possibility that ancient civilizations rose and fell like those in our more modern history do?

That's what really gets me about so much of modern science. The dogma is so thick that even reasonable possibilities are laughed at because it doesn't fit within the nice, neat little box.

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
Frankly, I'm not sure why there's so much of an argument over this. Of course, nobody wants to believe it was aliens. So what if it wasn't? Humans have been mostly the same for like 100 thousand years. Why is it so hard to entertain the possibility that ancient civilizations rose and fell like those in our more modern history do?

That's what really gets me about so much of modern science. The dogma is so thick that even reasonable possibilities are laughed at because it doesn't fit within the nice, neat little box.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Thinking out of the norm?
Well then aliens did it,right?
So much history of the species hominid has been lost.Not only the sapiens,but all the other species.
Neanderthals using boats before us modern humans?
Unthinkable!!!

Neanderthals, considered either a sub-species of modern humans or a separate species altogether, lived from approximately 300,000 years ago to somewhere near 24,000 years ago, when they inexplicably disappeared, leaving behind traces of their DNA in some Middle Eastern people and artifacts strewn all across the southern part of Europe and extending into western Asia. Some of those artifacts, stone tools that are uniquely associated with them, have been found on islands in the Mediterranean Sea, suggesting, according to a paper published in the Journal of Archaeological Science, by George Ferentinos and colleagues, that Neanderthals had figured out how to travel by boat. And if they did, it appears they did so before modern humans.

www.physorg.com...

Hello, 1AnunnakiBastard

The Inca did not completely "vanish".
Many ran from the Spaniards and the Royalty moved and hid their many heirs.
Some of the Royal offspring were taken to Spain much later, but they ended up
on Sicily.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by JeepEscape
The tools themselves would have to be precision-built so that they don't move around and make a mess while you are cutting into things and trying to make perfect or near perfect cuts or surfaces.

"Move around"? A hammer doesn't "move around", unless you make it.

Stop and think about the tools we have to use to do this today.

Hammer and chisel are enough. To draw the cuts in the stone, a pencil, some sticks and a rope.

You can't just throw some kind of polishing/cutting wheel on some wooden posts and ropes and think you are going to get such precision.

I don't remember anyone talking about polishing/cutting wheels, as I don't think they needed that originally.

By move around, I was referring to theories that include things like polishing and cutting wheels. I've seen these theories around large stones in Egypt. The problem is they have to be tight. As in precision. You can't have a large wheel that is cutting a perfect line if it has enough play to move around at the edge. Imagine trying to cut wood with a loose (lateral) circular saw. The cut would be a uneven s at best. In modern days we use materials like machined metals, bearings, bolts, washers and other things to make sure our saw blades are true while cutting. Wood is bad enough, imagine stone.

My wife is an interior designer and often works with granite. They use giant cutting saws and huge polishing machines to make counter tops. I know we aren't talking about granite here, but andesite is a moderately hard stone and the same kinds of giant sawblade machines are used for sandstone too. Found this tidbit as well which helps explain why the edges are still so sharp on those stones:

Andesite is widely applied as the special natural anti-corrosive material in the industries of ammunition, nuclear power, space navigation, chemical, petroleum, metallurgy, machinery and printing and dyeing.

Anyway, I think it's a bit much to assume these precision cut stones were all done with hammer and chisel. You are welcomed to you opinion though. Even archaeologists prefer not to make that claim from what I have read.

So the aliens come down, and all they do is carve a bunch of blocks for the inhabitants? Certainly there would be machinery left today...Unless the aliens took it, right? I don't know anything about any aliens, but I do know that the ancients had a LOT of time on their hands...

When they built something, they weren't thinking in terms we are familiar with...I'm talking multiple decades; many of them, depending on what exactly they were doing. Have you seen what modern artists can produce with their hands? Back then, the artisans who chiseled all that rock labored harder and longer, most likely, than most modern sculptors. So I do not believe for one second that they didn't carve the stones themselves...

There is ZERO evidence that someone else carved them. Just because they are created with perfect angles, which I doubt all have been measured, does not insinuate, much less prove, that they had "advanced" help. As far as getting the blocks there, there are more viable options than "aliens".

We as humans for a very long time have attributed supernatural and magical forces to the things we cannot comprehend. In our modern society there is almost an arrogance that attempts to rob the ancient peoples of their hard work and knowledge, because there are those who believe that these ancients were not ingenious and capable of work on a HUMAN scale.

A lot of technology can be bypassed by hard work, when done properly, over a period of time...Technology just makes many things easier. It's funny that anything found at the site is something that COULD in fact be made by hand, but there is nothing there that definitively proves any alien intervention, and nothing there that tells of any advanced technologies.

If you take the claims of missing time from alien abductions, then you can consider some methods of how these structures may have been built without anyone knowing what is going on. I could see telepathy playing a significant role in any communication between the aliens and natives.

I believe there could be an alien race if they were to build a base or kingdom of some sort that they would have it line up with the stars, and have unique compass and sun dial features. I could see a species do this with rock and enjoy visiting Earth from time to time, possibly living long term.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by 1AnunnakiBastard

 

Great episode. Keeps you stuck in the chair until the last second.

I absolutely agree with this.

The absolute one show I've waited for and knew they would get around too. I've watched it three times already and it's running again as I write this.

The devastation that came to Puma Punku is at least as interesting as who was responsible for building it.
I love how they couldn't get around mentioning the flood. As I beliveve this site and Gobekli Tepe were built before the flood came about. The only reason Puma Punku wasn't completely buried in the manner that Gobekli Tepe was ? The altitude. Puma Punku was built out of fear in my mind. I can fit this together with the Biblical record perfectly. The place was built for fear of what was known to be coming and yet was hardly a match.

Awesome show.

I can't say enough.

Gortex is simply afraid of what it says about the flood.

edit on 17-3-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Because of ATS policy about expressing one's true feelings I have to hold back but I can at least say that this reply is about as dumb as it gets. Worldwide biblical flood? You gotta be kidding, the archeological record does not support any of this religious flim flam. Biblical floods were restricted to the Meditarrean area 'cause that's where the bible writers were restricted to! There have been enough documentaries shown on TV dealing with real research into the biblical flood and where it took place near Turkey!

The bible is not a source for anything outside of the Mediterranean but it is for religious believers who know no limits.