“National Def. Preparedness” Exec. Order OKs Conscripts, Nationalization of Private Industry

Originally posted by beezzer
To add as a caveat, for anyone wo favours this draconian change, just remember that in November, we may get a republican in the White House with these same powers and authority.

I don't see how ANYONE would find favour in this.

I want to know why it was done using an executive order instead of having congress amend the law to take into account the latest changes. I am curious if this is another one of those end run around Congress moves. I also question the Constitutionality of these actions being implemented during times of peace.

If we have any constitutional experts a question - implementing the actions in this EO when there is no national defense / clear and present danger to the US issues, how does it not violate the 4th amendment?

reply to post by tegz_1


Unfortunately most people are unaware that the US Government like any sensible business has short term and long term contingency plans for any expected or uexpected occurence and the movements you see today are an example of the 8 year advanced think tank happenings that the US works under, example in the late 80s the manufacture of a bunch of train carriages were manufactured in Seattle with built in manacles to restrain 30 thousand people, now we see supposedly unused Military bases being prepared for the containment of a group of dissidents, these bases have been active supporting UN troops for years, now all the legals are in place, should be interesting times ahead, the murmer came out years ago that when the american People realize the extent of Government corruption that there will be a massive uprising, and with the expansion of certain groups in the expectation of civil unrest the Big Boys want to make sure they are protected, collective reality is in the air and we smell something big soon, interesting times we live in, I would not want to miss this for anything, i am glad that i am in my 70s.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
Ummm probably because it reads like every other National Defense Preparedness Executive Order signed by previous presidents? A routine government matter that is being used to stir FUD because Obama is - how shall we say? Different than his predecessors? Is it his race? Skin color? His religion?

An example from 1988;
National Archives Executive Order 12656--Assignment of emergency preparedness responsibilities

I hate to break it to you, but governments plan for all contingencies. I'd hate to see your reaction to some of the defense authorizations from the Cold War signed by JFK, Ike, or Nixon, some of those were downright scary.

You'll see, if you took the time to compare it to previous such orders, how each Secretary has been charged with ensuring the non-disruption of vital services during emergencies, from procuring funds, to keeping the private sector in operation, and yes, even to nationalizing certain private sector operations to keep them functioning so as to prevent a breakdown in society.

The one signed in 1994 also authorizes the use of government funding/equipment in improving privately-owned facilities.

Sec. 307. Government-owned Equipment. An agency head is authorized, pursuant to section 303(e) of the Act, to install additional equipment, facilities, processes, or improvements to facilities owned by the government and to install government-owned equipment in industrial facilities owned by private persons. source

Just the section title changed in the newest bill.

That's been written into every one of these National Defense Orders going all the way back to the early FEMA and it predecessor days of the Office of Civilian Defense, etc.

Nice try at demonizing Obama for doing the exact same thing all his predecessors have done though. Next time try denying your inner ignorance.

The difference between Obama and his predecessors has nothing to do with his race, you asshole. Quit playing the damn race card and pay attention to what's really going on. Even if other presidents signed stuff like this, they didn't do it in conjunction with a Patriot Act or an NDAA (in which their administration insisted on clauses to apply the strictest of provisions to American Citizens on American Soil). They didn't have a justice department perpetually expanding the definition of "extremist threats" to be applied to virtually ANYBODY. They weren't launching Kinetic Military Actions without even pretending to consult congress, claiming that congress is trumped by the UN, or using recess appointments in the absence of a recess!!! wake up. this man dreams of being a dictator and he's well on his way.

reply to post by jdub297

It is getting to the point that there is nothing he will not try to do to impose his "transformation" before November, and it's over.

Oh, this is nothing, just wait till he gets re-elected (as scarry as it sounds you know he will). Four more years of not having to worry about being re-elected, he's gonna pull out all the stops and really do a number to the country. If we don't change course we'll be heading for the "change" he promised and he might just decide to stay in office awhile longer.

Originally posted by duality90

Originally posted by lonegurkha
reply to post by jdub297

 

Thomas Jefferson said,"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."

He also said,"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."

How about this one,"An elective despotism was not the government we fought for."

I think that he was on to something here. It's exactly what we are seeing here. Jefferson foresaw this seizure of power by the government. He spoke about it many times. Check this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 3/17/2012 by lonegurkha because: (no reason given)

A wonderful and intelligent man though he was, for various reasons it is not always appropriate to cite the Framers of the Constitution to discuss current policies. Most of the Framers weren't entirely won over by the idea of people like you and me having the vote, so although I can look at their words as what they are - brilliant and insightful political discourse and theory - I don't think we always need to look back to what they would have thought or felt when assessing current events.

As one poster above has pointed out - this is nothing new, and it really shouldn't come as any surprise. It would seem that there is a 50/50 chance of war with Iran and all indicators seem to suggest that it will be far more involved than Iraq. Were the world or the Gulf Region to break out into large-scale warfare, the command of industry will not be surprising.

Jefferson was more a man of the people than many of the other founding fathers. His dislike of governments in any form is very plain by his many comments about the fact that government , if allowed to will evolve into despotism and tyranny if given the chance.
If you think about the times in which the constitution was written , there weren't allot of well educated people. The actual debate about who should have the right to vote centered around that fact. They were concerned that uneducated people would not be informed enough to make intelligent decisions when they voted.

The actual fact is that this is entirely new as wording has been changed and many parts now mean something entirely different than they originally did. Such as now there doesn't have to be an emergency for this mess to be initiated. That poster is wrong and hasn't compared one to the other. There are clearly changes that make this one an abomonation.

There will be no war with Iran. I believe that all this saber ratteling is just a coverup to keep the people distracted from what is really is going on.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by jdub297

 

All you are doing is using this as another sad attempt to smear Obama for upholding his office. If this executive order was so offensive to you, why didn't you demonize Bush for signing the same thing back in 1988 or Clinton for it in 1994?

May I humbly suggest googling hegelian dialectic?

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by jdub297

 

Of course it REVOKES those previous orders!

You can't have previous orders conflicting with NEW orders. The languages in this new order is virtually identical with the order issued in 1994 and 1988.

Again here is the 1994 E.O.
Executive Orders And Laws relating to National Emergencies Laws
EXECUTIVE ORDER 12919
NATIONAL DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL RESOURCES PREPAREDNESS

READ THOUGH it and tell me, how is the one Obama signed AT ALL different from the one signed back in 1994?

All you are doing is using this as another sad attempt to smear Obama for upholding his office. If this executive order was so offensive to you, why didn't you demonize Bush for signing the same thing back in 1988 or Clinton for it in 1994? Did you even KNOW they had signed these orders, and that this 2012 version was a virtual copy of those previous orders? The whole idea of "why does it revoke those orders" is laughable - it supersedes those orders. The one signed in 1994 revokes the one signed in 1988. (read section "Sec. 904. Effect on other Orders" in the 1994 order.)

For starters, I think some of the members here are just waking up to the erosion of liberty, and are so busy keeping up with the current onslaught, they may miss relative similarities throughout history. I dont think they are racist or bigots simply because they are pointing out concerns or missing the fact similar things have taken place. Its an awful lot to keep up with.


Also, I find it interesting that the language has changed in the current order. Particularlly that this order pertains to both emergency and non emergency senarios. Does that raise your eyebrows?

reply to post by OldCorp

>>>>>Ironic that it was signed by a black man. Can the brainwashed Left, the cult of Barry Obama see it yet?

reply to post by jdub297


Ok folks, martial law will be implemented by this fall. Book it.

reply to post by harlot7


Crazy indeed.

This is the blue print for introducing the final tyranny.

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by Blackmarketeer

 

A routine government matter that is being used to stir FUD because Obama is - how shall we say? Different than his predecessors? Is it his race? Skin color? His religion?

That's exactly what it is....and everyone tap dances around it like it's not an issue when we all know it is.

It can't possibly be that he's an execrable, fascist sub-human. No, it absolutely must be his skin color.

This EO is quite a bit like the others. And they were crap, too, all designed to make sure we are kept under the boot of oppression.

/TOA

I'm glad people here pointed out that such orders have been signed by previous administrations as well. That's very important to note, because most who will read this article are not aware of that fact. I'm also very happy to see that people here took the time to highlight the game-changing differences, especially the fact that now these orders are valid for peace times, not just times of war. That is a BIG deal. One word can change the meaning of an entire paragraph, so yes, it IS a big deal!

Those here who are happy about the change because it could potentially (and more clearly than ever) mean the coming of a Socialist U.S. of A., are extremely naive to believe that ANY Government can be trusted with the running of the economy, private businesses, distribution of wealth and your lives. Have you visited a DMV recently? Have you visited a Court House recently? Have you tried starting and running a business? Have you ever had to wade through the impossible bureaucracy? A Utopia it will not be. I've lived in it before, my family escaped it decades ago in hopes that we would never have to face that kind of corruption and control over our lives again. Sadly it is following us here. All it will do is make YOU unhappy and make Government employees (particularly the politicians in high places) very rich. Motivation to do better will disappear, and mediocracy will reign supreme. Congratulations. You're about to #$%^& up not only your own life, but potentially the lives of generations to come.

I would not be surprised if this is "TIA" for the NSA's new building. TIA Total Information Awareness is a DARPA program started om 2003. The name was changed to Terrorism Information Awareness to make it seem more friendly.link But the part of this project that I think connects TIA to the new NSA building is Genisys.

Genisys aimed at developing technologies which would enable "ultra-large, all-source information repositories".[14]

Vast amounts of information were going to be collected and analyzed, and the available database technology at the time was insufficient for storing and organizing such enormous quantities of data. So they developed techniques for virtual data aggregation in order to support effective analysis across heterogeneous databases, as well as unstructured public data sources, such as the World Wide Web. "Effective analysis across heterogenous databases" means the ability to take things from databases which are designed to store different types of data—such as a database containing criminal records, a phone call database and a foreign intelligence database. The World Wide Web is considered an "unstructured public data source" because it is publicly accessible and contains many different types of data—such as blogs, emails, records of visits to web sites, etc.—all of which need to be analyzed and stored efficiently.[14]

Another goal was to develop "a large, distributed system architecture for managing the huge volume of raw data input, analysis results, and feedback, that will result in a simpler, more flexible data store that performs well and allows us to retain important data indefinitely."[

en.wikipedia.org...-iaosite-genisys-13

It was TIA that brought you the secert room for spying at AT&T.




www.wired.com...

And I see more of those rooms in the future. When that NSA building comes online it will need a good flow of information coming in. And this order will allow the government to build a secret room in any building they want. And this is nothing new. Remeber Kevin Mitnick the man who was busted for hacking in the 1980's. Well one of his crimes was using the top secret government equipment that was located at all the telephone companies. The Telephone coompanies had no idea what the equipment was. He called them and got information from the phone company itself about the equipment acting as a repair man for the government. That system was caller id and call forwarding and even call spoofing which he then used to hack computers and hide his tracks.

en.wikipedia.org...

But this new executive order will allow the government to do much more then listen to your phone calls. Remeber they even said it. Total Information Awareness. And How about what the new CIA chief said. "We’ll Spy on You Through Your Dishwasher". But im sure they don't care about your dishes. But California did want to have complete control of your air conditioners. And that was only part of the plan.

www.wired.com...



www.wnd.com...

I know my house got the new smart meter. The power company has direct real time information from it. They had to fight to put them in because the features would allow them to spy on smart appliances. What did they do to get the ok to put them in? Turn off the spy portions. Well the secret is they only turned them off. They did not come up with one that did not have the features in it to put on my house.

I have to add this. Its off topic and does not pertain to this subject but I think its a good sign of how things are changing in the US. Tea partiers show up to their protests and rallies guns in pockets, on backs and in cars. No police or anything stop them from this. When occupy even is hinted at having guns at a private venue, SWAT is called on them and they are detained. Transparency is waning thin.

What is interesting is this in effect, proves Panetta correct.

Under this they can send troops, resources, whatever the hell they want to any foreign country without any other permission.

Check out the definition of 'national defense'.

(j) "National defense" means programs for military and energy production or construction, military or critical infrastructure assistance to any foreign nation, homeland security, stockpiling, space, and any directly related activity. Such term includes emergency preparedness activities conducted pursuant to title VI of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. 5195 et seq., and critical infrastructure protection and restoration.

OK, let's say the nationalization of private industry happens. Does any one here believe the government is going to relinquish control of said property, ever? Go ahead and tell me what kind of government we will then have.

reply to post by OldCorp

He's not leaving us much choice is he?

No, he certainly does not. Law by Presidential Edict is not Law, it is rather Dictatorship, akin to Monarchy. We are seeing the rise of the 4th Reich right before our very eyes, are we going to continue to be blind to it?

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson

As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now let us show them we can fight like men also.
Thomas Jefferson

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
Thomas Jefferson

For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security.
Thomas Jefferson

reply to post by autowrench


You have come as close as the best on your post, yes when a president goes around congress to execute orders under his command it is considered a dictatorship.

I agree.

But in America we get to elect the puppet presidents no matter what and will be electing for years to come, Why? because no American president will become a one man or women dictatorship we already have a dictatorship in this nation run by the same group of people behind the president, is call a corporate dictatorship.

What presidents do is get elected and pass the laws that the real dictatorship wants to be passed and the people will spend the presidents time in power wondering if they are the one that will become a sole dictators, guess what is not going to happen.

Because is not necessary.

At first I thought this was overblown..but, when you see that POTUS is circumventing congress on spending with this EO..and SecDef Panetta clearly stated that international approval is all he thought he needed, not congressional approval..and you see that, indeed, Barack Obama has taken upon himself the power of a dictator, or, as the post above me says, he's fronting for corporate dictators behind the scenes.. It's not conspiracy, this is right in our face.

And the american people continue to sleep.

War with Iran, I feel, will happen before the end of the month. Most of the pieces seem to be in place..and iran ain't no punk. they can fight back. major #storm incoming..

reply to post by The Old American

It can't possibly be that he's an execrable, fascist sub-human. No, it absolutely must be his skin color.

Ah, so he's a sub-human, thanks for clearing it up that it's not about race.