Santorum jumps the shark. Pledges to make porn illegal

How is this guy basically the frontrunner for conservatives?

THIS.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Why are you attacking my views? I enjoy watching normal porn.

I'm opposed to things that are dispicable.

Same
I am however opposed to normal porn, therefore normal porn should be illegal. Not taking about like wearing short skirts and hand holding type stuff, but you know...anything that may make someone little more than a product.




See, the issue is this.
you are saying the line is where your personal disgust comes into play...which means as you get older, that will move to encompass more and more.
I say, no...don't adopt that psychology..adopt a principled one, regardless of your disgust.
anything between two consenting adults, even if barbed wire and flamethrowers are involved, should be fine...its their choice, and so long as nobody dies from it, then very well..have at it. put an extra X on the label if you want, but otherwise, do whatever.

See, you think you have a sensible outlook...I say you don't. because your outlook changes in life over and over.

I think your right on the cusp of thinking right, just take a moment to consider not you..but someone whom finds..well, the butt slap and hair pulll as violent sadomasochism..imagine him being the one taking cue from you on what to ban "violent sm"...

Your -still- asking people to come into your bedroom so to speak

reply to post by SaturnFX


Just so you know, I'm not Rick Santorum nor his wife. My views are also not the topic of this thread.
I'm allowed to have my opinion and so are you. If you get off on watching men punch women in the face during sex, I'm not the one with the problem.

So, back on topic.... he did just lose a whole lot of votes.

double post

We are gonna have to make Santorum illegal then too!!!

Santorum, n. - The frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the by-product of anal sex.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Just so you know, I'm not Rick Santorum nor his wife. My views are also not the topic of this thread.

it -sort of- is. Not you particularly mind you...your probably awesome frankly. but I am pointing out a mindset you presented (accidently perhaps) that is being preyed on.

Rick is saying he doesn't like something that consenting adults do (porn), therefore it should be illegal.
You are saying you don't like something that consenting adults do (violent SM), therefore it should be illegal.

Not really trying to burn you with this, rather just put a flashlight on it.

ATS is about learning, right? Part of that is learning about your own views and any odd flaws we haven't even noticed.

anyhow, not wanting some sort of argument..and again, don't know you at all..from what I do know, you would be fun and a great girlfriend. just talking about the legislation based on personal acceptance..which is exactly what Rick is doing..just his scale is smaller.

At least someone is saying it. I disagree with Rick on a lot of issues, especially his foreign policy, but at least he is right on social issues. The First Amendment does not mean the barring of religion, or creating a ‘wall of separation between church and state’ as Jefferson envisioned in a private letter, it simply meant that the government could not have an official church, mostly because they feared the state interfering in the church, not vice versa, and because the state should not force anyone into conversion. So Rick was right on this issue.

How about when he said being privately against something should not mean that you do not enforce it through legislation? We are told to check our religions at the door, as if they are a hat. Like Rick, I believe that is absurd. Those in government who proclaim not to have a religion – do have a religion. It is called Secularism. And they enforce it thoroughly on society.

Or when he rightfully stated there is no right in the constitution to privacy – an abstract term. It was invented solely by Supreme Court Judges acting upon their personal morality. The legislature’s responsibility, as understood without question until the Cultural Revolution, was to uphold and enforce a transcendent moral good. The SCOTUS decided instead that abstract privacy exist thus, ipso facto, morality was recognize as solely an individual conception of the good; abolishing transcendent and common good. Once again, Rick was right.

So, based upon the stated above, I agree with Santorum on the issue of banning hardcore pornography in an effort to uphold a transcendent, common good. To those who believe merely in the existence of a personal, subjective good commonly advocated by Secularists who think anything consensual is basically a generally acceptable act: I can understand why you object to this but it does not change the fact that a common, transcendent good must be upheld and enforced by the legislatures.

reply to post by Misoir


In essence...you agree with Santorum that personal privacy shouldn't be a right. Got it

Iran's that way ========>

reply to post by SaturnFX


I see your point and I do understand, but I still feel that there must be limits. Without limits, things start to get a bit too much. It's as though certain people just keep pushing the envelope.

Maybe we can meet at a nice median?
As far as I'm aware, Santorum is just talking about internet porn.
What if they just kept normal porn online and all the really controversial stuff would have to be purchased in adult stores?
This I'd be happy with. Kids are just too easily influenced and watching truly violent sex can warp a developing mind.

(Edit to Add: Thanks for the compliments. You've got me blushing! )

This is really absurd. He is just playing to his base. Even if my some miracle(and it will take a miracle for him to be POTUS) he makes in office and is able to get hardcore porn illegal(it would have to be voted by Congress and then the Senate), how would the law be enforceable. Would the swat team come beating down your door just for downloading some porn?

reply to post by MrXYZ


So, when someone disagrees with you the only answer is that they should leave the country. What, do not like it that some people refuse to accept such a flawed metaphysical theory? Tough, I could not care less what you or anyone else likes.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

So, when someone disagrees with you the only answer is that they should leave the country. What, do not like it that some people refuse to accept such a flawed metaphysical theory? Tough, I could not care less what you or anyone else likes.

Nothing "flawed" or "metaphysical" (wtf does that even mean???) about privacy.

If the country's mantra is "freedom", cracking down on privacy is the last thing you should do or wish for. Are you seriously against privacy?

reply to post by Misoir


Who are you, or anyone for that matter, to decide that porn is not a "transcendent, common good?"

This is America. We aren't going to limit our choices based upon radical, religious-extremists' ideals.

Where do you draw the line between what kinda of porn can be watched?


I can't believe I've posted in this thread thrice.

Originally posted by Misoir
I agree with Santorum on the issue of banning hardcore pornography in an effort to uphold a transcendent, common good.

Trancendent common good. what a interesting concept.
I would argue that porn has done far more good in society than places where such places and cultures are forbidden to have it.
Porn is the frontrunner of technology first off..and that in itself is the only thing needed to check any amount of cons..but we can continue.
First, let me actually source my statements (something Rickypoo doesn't like doing..fact checking)
Porn drives tech

Next,
Pornography DECREASES rape
Source
Excerpt: The incidence of rape in the United States has declined 85% in the past 25 years while access to pornography has become freely available to teenagers and adults. The Nixon and Reagan Commissions tried to show that exposure to pornographic materials produced social violence. The reverse may be true: that pornography has reduced social violence.

I will leave just that for now..yes, I very much could go on...
point is, The idea that porn somehow is damaging is categorically false and at worst, it is a neutral aspect of society, or at best, the motivator of progress and our survival as a species....probably somewhere in the middle though.

To those who believe merely in the existence of a personal, subjective good commonly advocated by Secularists who think anything consensual is basically a generally acceptable act.

It is
It simply is
Proud to be a secular, if the alternative is someone spreading lies and disinformation in order to have mental control over morals subjective to only my personal desire.
Those whom do not want to live in a secular society can petition non-secular countries for visa's and pack their crap...Enjoy Saudi Arabia.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I will keep my religion of human sexuality, and my free speech/press of penthouse.

The greater moral good..what a laugh. What actually -is- provably damaging to the human psyche and a nation is conspiracys...would you be on board someone wanting to shut the net down because it allows people to sew discord in the minds of people?

My how far some people fall.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Freedom and privacy are not interwoven. Our Founders provided us with freedom, not privacy. There exists a difference. Even then freedom must be understood in context. They asserted that our rights come from GOD (remember that?), grounded them in Natural Law, and developed our domestic laws based upon English Common Law which has a strictly Judeo-Christian backing. Therein provides the source from which we may cite what the transcendent, common good for our nation is.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I see your point and I do understand, but I still feel that there must be limits. Without limits, things start to get a bit too much. It's as though certain people just keep pushing the envelope.

My limits are my limits. I simply dont watch or promote things outside of it. Let others do what they want so long as its not forced on me.

Maybe we can meet at a nice median?

I don't see one...its a principle...hard to compromise with a principle verses sliding scale
if it was you and I discussing what we will watch tonight, thats fine..compromise away. But on a scale of making law, a compromise is simply a foot in the door for another compromise down the road.
find a good principle (consenting adults) and simply let things fall where they may.
Stick another X on the box that is for "freaky stuff" is about as far as I would go..something to simply make aware its not "standard" porn but rather absurd stuff

As far as I'm aware, Santorum is just talking about internet porn.

No, all porn
from net, to shops, hotels, etc etc etc.

What if they just kept normal porn online and all the really controversial stuff would have to be purchased in adult stores?

what if they just kept normal anything online and anything different or not mainstream was held at bookstores? Want to log in and read wikileaks? too bad..go overseas. Want to read about aliens? thats not normal..go find some freaky alien dude giving away pamphlets.
Who decides normal
normal to me is consenting adults..thats it.

This I'd be happy with. Kids are just too easily influenced and watching truly violent sex can warp a developing mind.

KIDS SHOULDN'T BE WATCHING PORN!!!!
Parents...there are FREE net monitoring and filtering software out there...christ sakes...parents, become aware of your childs activities...
and rip those violent games out of their hands also..
or at least talk to them about both if you can't be bothered and have them understand what it is they are seeing...

the government is -not- a babysitter.

(Edit to Add: Thanks for the compliments. You've got me blushing!

)

edit on 16-3-2012 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)

NP. just wanted to say this isn't about you, its about everyone. one on one, I would probably go with everything you said with for our home..from what movies we watch at night, to taking an active part in child raising (and I know of a few good net filter programs..if he/she can hack it..props). But even if I had 1000 kids and trying to block porn was like playing wack a mole, I still wouldn't want moral legislation. For the children is the most bogus call a politician can ever make.

reply to post by SaturnFX


What if drunk driving led to the increase in car sales thus driving the material progression of motor vehicles; should that be excusable because it results in some technological progress? I do not believe so. Nor would your argument that pornography leads to the advancement of technology in any way convince me it is a net good. This cult of progress is quite annoying.

Let us assume that study is correct and access to pornography has decreased the incidences of rape. Rape would never have been as high had the sexual revolution not occurred. Greater access to contraceptives and abortion, combined with loosening social mores enforcing responsibility upon both genders, and an increase in the promiscuous dress of women caused rape to surge in the first place. All of which are also chief threats to the common good which result in disgusting acts such as rape.

I spread no lies or disinformation. I am simply here to advocate for what is right against such disastrous assumptions as moral relativism, secularism, individualism, and abstract ‘rights’. It saddens me that so few actually acknowledge the truth, may I pray that one day you are enlightened to the undeniable truths which I speak.

yep,

Because with gasoline going to be $5.00 a gallon, job losses in the tens of thousands, starving kids here in america, and homeless folks, we have to remember..................

What we need to worry about the most is porn

I cannot even believe this guy is a serious contender to be POTUS.

Were are in deep trouble people.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

What if drunk driving led to the increase in car sales thus driving the material progression of motor vehicles; should that be excusable because it results in some technological progress?

No, because drunk driving causes actual damage and death.
strawman..shame on you.

Nor would your argument that pornography leads to the advancement of technology in any way convince me it is a net good. This cult of progress is quite annoying.

Actually, it doesn't matter if your convinced or not..can't argue numbers and simple facts.
You can not believe in facts, hell, you don't have to believe in gravity..but that doesn't mean it isn't true

Let us assume that study is correct and access to pornography has decreased the incidences of rape. Rape would never have been as high had the sexual revolution not occurred.

Rape has been the staplemark of all civilizations since the dawning of time.
One thing that the sex revolution has allowed is for people to not feel ashamed about it.
Misoir...sometimes I am on board with your thinking, sometimes I wonder if someone hacked your account.
You can guess which one this is. Your more thoughtful than this.

Greater access to contraceptives and abortion, combined with loosening social mores enforcing responsibility upon both genders, and an increase in the promiscuous dress of women caused rape to surge in the first place. All of which are also chief threats to the common good which result in disgusting acts such as rape.

Rape is a crime of power, not passion. A person whom wants to simply get off...well, they got porn for that.
A person whom wants to control a situation and another, to harm a woman based on whatever is going on in their past, they will rape, fight, or otherwise do harm to another.
No, I don't blame rape on women being too sexy. I am sorry if you do.

I spread no lies or disinformation. I am simply here to advocate for what is right against such disastrous assumptions as moral relativism, secularism, individualism, and abstract ‘rights’. It saddens me that so few actually acknowledge the truth, may I pray that one day you are enlightened to the undeniable truths which I speak.

Thats just it, I have given you sources, figures, and you have given me your gut perception...based in false data and dogmatic preachings.
I am not saying you are willfully spreading disinformation..I am saying you are not informed, and spreading someone elses lies and propaganda.

As far as praying for my enlightenment to your way of thinking...I am a hard facts person..so, your prayers would be better served wishing for facts to change.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
How is this guy basically the frontrunner for conservatives?

Basically I think Christians fear a Mormon. I think they are voting against Romney - more then they are voting for Santorum.


But - Yeah! The guys a tool.

Insults women's rights.
Insults Puerto Rico
Insults everyone - - going after porn.

Not to mention the power behind the porn industry. That's like messing with the Mafia.

He just needs to go away.