Leon Panetta wants to execute the soldier in the Afghanistan massacre

reply to post by Afterthought


It seems like a cover up to me, I think there is more to this story, but we will never know.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Thank you. My thoughts exactly.
I'm just worried about how many other sleepers there are out there and even on our own soil.

reply to post by Afterthought


You know, that is actually a big sign of mental instability, perhaps went between the cracks of the military medical system that sign him to be fix for duty.

My daughter is doing internship with mental patients and she said that is incredible the way that some of the severely mental patients see reality.

She said that psychopaths look find, dress fine, act normal until they start talking, then you know that they are very disturbed, some seem like just joking unless you know what to look for on their speeches.

I have to say that is something going on and it doesn't end with this Soldier going crazy I wonder how many more or our troops are just about to snap or about to snap when they come home.

They only thing that doesn't sit well with me is how much media is given to this case when the US has been killing civilians children and women during the the invasion of the two countries in question but nobody in government complain about because it was all either terrorist and the "usual collateral damage" that now runs in the thousands.

I think this stinks of hypocrisy and crap.

edit on 16-3-2012 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

Enough of this MK Ultra stuff. You do know people go crazy IN REAL LIFE? There is no need to find a conspiracy in every facet of existence.. The dude went nuts. They should study his brain while he stays in solitary confinement for life while also pumping perpetual Rebecca Black music into his cell. We could use him as a study subject for the long term human effects of Monsanto modified foods. We could also rip his eyes out and install implanted eyes that uplink with video, then send him on a mission to mars. I don't know. I'm sure I could think of 100 more uses for people like this..

I'm not going to comment on the right or wrong of this mans actions because the real issue here is the fact that our government has been involved in WAY too many conflicts. We send men to battle repeatedly with no care as to the effect it has on them. I did 3 runs in Afghan and 2 in Iraq in just over 6 years. That doesn't give a person much time to mentally deal with the horrors of what you are forced to do for survival. IMHO the "leaders" we have should be put on trial right along with this soldier and suffer the same fate because they are just as guilty of crimes against humanity.

Just my 2 cents....

We should feel sorry for him and excuse his actions? Kony2012..

Ugh Liberals. If you're against the death penalty for mass murderers here in the US how can you suddenly be for it on a US soldier during war time? Seriously, throw logic out the window. At least be consistent!

reply to post by marg6043


Yes, and we already know that soldiers aren't getting the psych help they need once they return from their first tour, and this guy was on his third or something?

The military and government needs to take PTSD more seriously, but I really don't think they care. It's better to have soldiers who are unfeeling and desensitized. I did a thread about the government admitting that they want to replace soldiers with robots because robots wouldn't have the emotions that are getting in the way as we see here.

For those who don't believe Project MK Ultra exists, I wish I didn't, too. But, it's real and whether or not you choose to believe it is up to you. I'd be interested in knowing who his family is. Was his dad a high ranking military man? I hope that more of his history is revealed, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Why don't you ask yourself a philosophical question. What makes the soldiers so uneasy about what they are doing and seeing? I'll tell you. It's savagery and against all human nature to destroy other human beings. But somehow we allow great evil to trick us into thinking this is the proper path. War is the single most evil and destructive thing in all creation. There is no compassion in war and innocent people get murdered daily. Wake the fck up world!

What they have done to these soldiers is criminal, well if I didn't know better I would think they are trying to weaken our military.

patdollard.com...

www.thedailybeast.com...

reply to post by Afterthought


Is not a dream is a reality, the same way that the government has done everything it can to enhance technology, the projects are on going, but they fall in the shadow government budget that we the tax payer will never get to know but only heard about it.

Wait let's give 50 million illegal immigrants 10,000 a year in handouts while our troops make at best an extra $2600 a year for being in combat.. Oh and then we charge them out of their pay for food while the congressman make 200k and eat lobster and steaks for free at lunch. WAKE UP AMERICA!

reply to post by marg6043


Absolutely.
If robots were on the ground fighting instead of humans, there wouldn't be so many embarrassing mishaps and aggregious mistakes such as urinating on dead bodies and murderous mental break downs like we're seeing here.
The government wants cheap, effective labor. Robots don't need psych help, just tune ups. Robots don't need paychecks. Robots don't need uniforms, food, water, and can be designed so that they don't even need shelter. Events such as this make me think that it's helping them to bring about this agenda. Also, if a robot is past its prime, who's going to object when it is sent to the junk yard, dismantled, and recycled? This is a lot more convenient than paying court costs, lawyer fees, and arguing with the public about whether or not executing the perp is the right thing to do.

reply to post by Nucleardiver


I agree with your response. There are supposed to be checks and balances to prevent this kind of thing and those who are responsible for "being responsible" should be held accountable as well.

The rules for Hostile Fire and Imminent Danger Pay have changed. Service members will now receive imminent danger pay only for days they actually spend in hazardous areas. This change went in effect on February 1, 2012.

A member of a uniformed service may be entitled to Hostile Fire and Imminent Danger pay at the rate of $225 for any month in which he/she was entitled to basic pay and in which he/she was:

Subject to hostile fire or explosion of hostile mines;
On duty in an area in which he was in imminent danger of being exposed to hostile fire or explosion of hostile mines and in which, during the period he was on duty in that area, other members of the uniformed services were subject to hostile fire or explosion of hostile mines;
Killed, injured, or wounded by hostile fire, explosion of a hostile mine, or any other hostile action; or
On duty in a foreign area in which he was subject to the threat of physical harm or imminent danger on the basis of civil insurrection, civil war, terrorism, or wartime conditions.

www.military.com...

Yea while they sit in their ivory towers.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


Giving him to the villagers would be revenge, not justice. He should stand trial, and when found guilty then the punishment should be decided.

Armed conflicts are messy affairs, and unlike wars, there are consequences to the actions done on both sides of the conflict. The problem from the get go, is that there was no war declared, no statement on the part of the congress, just going along with what ever the White House wanted. Then like so many in the past, where it was not declared, the politicians get involved to get their hands into it, taking credit when an action succeeds or not. The whole thing is going to be trouble from the get go.

We should not be surprised at the actions of one person, who committed these actions, it was bound to happen. These have been going on, and will continue to come to light, long after the US has left Afghanistan.

Panetta, is trying to do damage control over there, hence why his statement, not that he wants to see such happen, but that he is trying to smooth out the problems that are occurring. No one really can understand what all is going on in the mind of the military people there, unless they themselves have been through that themselves. There are too many questions as to what happened, and why it happened. What was the general state of mind for that soldier and why did he go through and do such. This is only the beginning of a problem that will plague the US for years to come, considering that when the troops pull out from that country and return home, the US will have to deal with them.

Does the soldier deserve to be executed, I do not know, and can not state such. No one can without hearing all of the evidence. Just cause a person is in the military, does not mean that the rule of law ceases to exist for them, and ultimately this is just the start of a long legal process that must be adhered to by the US military under the rules of the UCMJ. If they find that he does deserve the death penalty, then there is a good chance that he may be returned to Afghanistan to face trial in that country and ultimately have to face what ever punishment that they deemed fit, to include execution.

He suffered a brain injury back in 2010. I don't know to what extent, but any brain injury can have severe effects. That's most likely going to be the lawyers main defense for the soldier, so I highly doubt the soldier would get the death penalty.

I could have sworn Panetta only stated that the death penalty was on option

As a former Special Ops veteran of both the Army and Navy I am quite concerned. War is at least traumatic and life changing. As I do not applaud nor approve of the actions this well decorated and career military man took. I do have compassion and a understanding for what made him snap. I find it hard to believe that the military would allow for his execution or even his imprisonment for life. He is in desperate need of pyschological help and should be treated with the diginity and respect his undevoted service requires. If the military or should I say the civilians allows this to happen it would be a travestry, again I do not support his actions and crime however, special circumstances deserve special treatment. I suggest we get someone from Gitmo, put a bag on his head, put him in front of the firing squad and have at it. Bury him and forget about it. Justice served. I also find it ironic how these muslim fanatics that have committed so many vile and cowardly acts, remember the execution of the civilain contractors and the decapitation as viewed on TV, now they want justice.

We cannot win this war or this police action, we cannot nor should not convert muslims to christain values. We should however protect ourselves and our interests, if they attack us in any manner we should act with swift and deadly action.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Okay, I'm missing where anyone has a problem with Panetta being for a Death Penalty prosecution as it may or may not fit under the UCMJ? Personally I'm finding it baffling that people call for the scalps of U.S. Soldiers if they burn a book or play sick head games with Iraqi VIP prisoners on the VIP cell block, but what is this? Folks are condeming the system looking real hard at doing something with this one?

Heck guys... at least it appears fair to say THIS one did it as outright murder. No question of combat confusion or fuzzy thinking here. What is a VALID question is how many more guys are close to breaking, how many officers need to answer for keeping them in the pressure cooker well after they're baked, and how soon we can get our men home to stop the damage from piling on.

This guy though? He absolutely must have his fair trial...and I don't care what Karzai wants. A fair trial is a NATO or U.S. Military trial. No one I'm related to or have known in the Armed Forces would go for this kind of horror, if all is factual as we are hearing it today. So..In a RARE CASE, I agree with Panetta. AFTER his fair trial and if the evidence shows guilt, then shoot him.

I don't know what the exact provisions of the UCMJ are, but I am willing to bet that the Secretary of Defense has no actual or substantial control over judicial proceedings. I would hope that this is not the case as it would obviously be a gross intrusion into a system of criminal justice which does not need and does benefit from the meddling of outsiders who are trying to influence decisions.

As to the posters above - it doesn't make you any more a patriot to justify the grisly acts of your countrymen for no other reason than that they are your countrymen. Should we forgive Nazi Death-Camp guards because they were under emotional strain in many cases? No, we would not - we would rightfully say that they committed awful acts which justice requires be punished; it is the same case here. The soldier in question appears to have committed murder on a large-scale. His mental state may serve as an affirmative defense (again, I am not certain what the insanity/emotional distress provisions are - if any - under the UCMJ), but is still right that he should be prosecuted regardless, even if found not guilty by reason of insanity (although that is quite a high benchmark, and he clearly appreciated the wrongfulness of his act, since he turned himself in immediately).