Racial Profiling and A Heartbreaking Tragedy.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I love it when people give you back ground information on their personal experiences not knowing WHO the other person is or WHAT qualifications they have

The problem is with NO arrest being made. As you so articulatly stated - we are not a jury - so THUS the "stand your ground law" that is being thrown about is saved for a trial and conviction in a defense case. and NOT a lack of arrest or being taken into police custody.. Don't you agree?

But on the stand your ground law - that makes you glean that Zimmerman was lawful in his shooting; let us take a peak.

My turn:

www.leg.state.fl.us.../0776/Sections/0776.013.html

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
---------------------Is not applicable to Trayvon

(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
---------------------Zimmerman did not see Trayvon in the act of a forcible entry. He may have BELIEVED that one "had occured" - but then one would have to question why this was his belief. Which brings us to the race question

(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or
(b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or
(c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
------------------Key element. Trayvon was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in a location that he has a right to be in. Thus the stand your ground law for Zimmerman is null.

(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
(5) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
(b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
(c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.


As we can see by the facts - Trayvon was not in the act of a crime, he had a right to be where he was,and he was not an agressor (an aggressor meaning a initiator of conflict through physical OR VERBAL means ). the "stand your ground law" is ineffective in this situation.

The FBI/DOJ proved it doesn't care what state law is during the Goodman klan case in Mississippi . convicted after state court found not guilty and will in this case .Z is toast one way or the other.But you have to quit bending facts to fit your "want it to be's".It is what it is.

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
This post is for everyone who seems to be stuck on whether "Zimmerman" is White or Hispanic. Doesn't matter which race he claims! I live in California and Hispanics all over the state are just as racist towards blacks as whites are, so it doesn't matter, racist people are a dime a dozen all over the planet. What makes any of you think that because he may be 100% Hispanic/Latino (which he isn't) that he can't be racist? A hate crime is a hate crime whether you're white, black, hispanic, indian, asian or "Bi-Racial". So please stop the non sense talk about whether he was Hispanic or White...he's in fact bi-racial, so that makes him mixed with White and Hispanic.

In the end a hate crime is a hate crime and that may turn out to be the bigger issue here, which is why the DOJ has become involved. Why argue over which race he claims...his last name is "Zimmerman" and the last time I checked Zimmerman is of Bavarian/German in origin...so obviously his daddy is white and possibly his mother is Hispanic or maybe it's the other way around. His last name sure isn't Estrada or Rodriguez

Zimmerman Surname Origin

In the end, as I have stated before this is a horrible horrible MURDEROUS CRIME and this jack wagon needs to be put on trial. They better hurry up too...communities across the nation are getting very impatient. Thank the universe this didn't happen out here in Los Angeles, Zimmerman would've been toast by now! Rioting is just another way to have your voice heard around here regardless of how ignorant it may appear.

Whether racially motivated or not, Zimmerman deserves a fair trial just like any other American, because a murder was definitely committed and he needs to answer for what he did and why...then PROVE it.

edit on 3/21/12 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)

It doesn't matter what Zimmerman claims. The media is making it a racial thing and blaming whites. He ios not white at all. he is hispanic/jewish.

Its messed up a kid died but its even more messed up the white community is being gang banged by the media and their liberal loons as usual.

Try this link. Yours convienantly left out it is a german jewish name.

genealogy.about.com...

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
The FBI/DOJ proved it doesn't care what state law is during the Goodman klan case in Mississippi . convicted after state court found not guilty and will in this case .Z is toast one way or the other.But you have to quit bending facts to fit your "want it to be's".It is what it is.

Zimmerman's family better hope to God that he didn't mumble under his breathe "F'in Coons" on that 911 tape. It is also being reported by MSM and here on ATS that he mumbled those words. The tape will definitely be analyzed and if he made such a reference...he's not only toast, but burnt toast!

It's not if the kid WAS an aggressor,it's if it is believed he was the aggressor or Z can convince the law he was...you keep getting hung up on other things ..it's not stand your ground...they weren't in a house or car...he fired in self defense...look that one up

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
The FBI/DOJ proved it doesn't care what state law is during the Goodman klan case in Mississippi . convicted after state court found not guilty and will in this case .Z is toast one way or the other.But you have to quit bending facts to fit your "want it to be's".It is what it is.

Zimmerman's family better hope to God that he didn't mumble under his breathe "F'in Coons" on that 911 tape. It is also being reported by MSM and here on ATS that he mumbled those words. The tape will definitely be analyzed and if he made such a reference...he's not only toast, but burnt toast!

he did,,,,,I believe its the initial 911 tape I heard it on

i dont care if zimmerman was green and trayvon was blue, what he did was uncalled for. self defense? zimmerman was like 250 lbs and trayvon was an unarmed 140 lb kid, give me a break people. fact number #9 "Zimmerman called the police 46 times since Jan. 1, 2011" the majority of these calls were trivial and i want to know why the state of florida didnt put a stop to this guy sooner.

From Think Progress: On February 26, 2012, a 17-year-old African-American named Trayvon Martin was shot and killed in Sanford, Florida. The shooter was George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old white man. Zimmerman admits killing Martin, but claims he was acting in self-defense. Three weeks after Martin's death, no arrests have been made and Zimmerman remains free.

Here is what everyone should know about the case:

1. Zimmerman called the police to report Martin's "suspicious" behavior, which he described as "just walking around looking about."

Zimmerman was in his car when he saw Martin walking on the street. He called the police and said: "There's a real suspicious guy. This guy looks like he's up to no good, on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around looking about... These a**holes always get away" [Orlando Sentinel]

2. Zimmerman pursued Martin against the explicit instructions of the police dispatcher:

Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"
Zimmerman: "Yeah"
Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that."

[Orlando Sentinel]

3. Prior to the release of the 911 tapes, Zimmerman's father released a statement claiming "[a]t no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin." [Sun Sentinel]

4. Zimmerman was carrying a a 9 millimeter handgun. Martin was carrying a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea. [ABC News]

5. Martin weighed 140 pounds. Zimmerman weighs 250 pounds. [Orlando Sentinel; WDBO]

6. Martin's English teacher described him as "as an A and B student who majored in cheerfulness." [Orlando Sentinel]

7. Martin had no criminal record. [New York Times]

8. Zimmerman "was charged in July 2005 with resisting arrest with violence and battery on an officer. The charges appear to have been dropped." [Huffington Post]

9. Zimmerman called the police 46 times since Jan. 1, 2011. [Miami Herald]

10. According to neighbors, Zimmerman was "fixated on crime and focused on young, black males." [Miami Herald]

11. Zimmerman "had been the subject of complaints by neighbors in his gated community for aggressive tactics" [Huffington Post]

12. A police officer "corrected" a key witness. "The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help." [ABC News]

13. Three witnesses say they heard a boy cry for help before a shot was fired. "Three witnesses contacted by The Miami Herald say they saw or heard the moments before and after the Miami Gardens teenager's killing. All three said they heard the last howl for help from a despondent boy." [Miami Herald]

14. The officer in charge of the crime scene also received criticism in 2010 when he initially failed to arrest a lieutenant's son who was videotaped attacking a homeless black man. [New York Times]

15. The police did not test Zimmerman for drugs or alcohol. A law enforcement expert told ABC that Zimmerman sounds intoxicated on the 911 tapes. Drug and alcohol testing is "standard procedure in most homicide investigations." [ABC News]

The Martin case had been turned over to the Seminole County State Attorney's Office. Martin's family has asked for the FBI to investigate.

reply to post by Ameliaair


He's Hispanic Jewish? Where did that come from? That's the first I've heard that. But even if he is, I still don't get why it isn't a hate crime if he mumbled any words as is being reported as a possibility that he did on the 911 call.
Being Jewish isn't a race it's a religion...so maybe he is a practicing Jew...I dunno and don't care to be honest. BTW, could you point me in the direction of where you saw or read that he's a Hispanic/Latino practicing Judaism...that's interesting.

So if it turns out he's a Hispanic/Latino practicing Judaism, how would that excuse this murder from being a hate crime?

Hispanics are just as racist as the next race.

reply to post by conspiracy nut



Maybe you don't care but I do because the media is blaming whites when Zimmerman is not white.

Originally posted by Ameliaair

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
The FBI/DOJ proved it doesn't care what state law is during the Goodman klan case in Mississippi . convicted after state court found not guilty and will in this case .Z is toast one way or the other.But you have to quit bending facts to fit your "want it to be's".It is what it is.

Zimmerman's family better hope to God that he didn't mumble under his breathe "F'in Coons" on that 911 tape. It is also being reported by MSM and here on ATS that he mumbled those words. The tape will definitely be analyzed and if he made such a reference...he's not only toast, but burnt toast!

he did,,,,,I believe its the initial 911 tape I heard it on

WOW he actually said that? I haven't heard the entire tape so I can't say one way or another but just wow. Well, if that in fact is true then that makes this case a hate crime and this guy is in BIG trouble.

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
reply to post by Ameliaair

 

He's Hispanic Jewish? Where did that come from? That's the first I've heard that. But even if he is, I still don't get why it isn't a hate crime if he mumbled any words as is being reported as a possibility that he did on the 911 call.
Being Jewish isn't a race it's a religion...so maybe he is a practicing Jew...I dunno and don't care to be honest. BTW, could you point me in the direction of where you saw or read that he's a Hispanic/Latino practicing Judaism...that's interesting.

So if it turns out he's a Hispanic/Latino practicing Judaism, how would that excuse this murder from being a hate crime?

Hispanics are just as racist as the next race.

Really? Tell the jewish people they are not an ethnic people. See what they tell you.

I used to be naive also but after being told time and time again by jewish people they are not only religious but ethnic, I'll oblige.

Zimmerman is german Jewish

Originally posted by Ameliaair
reply to post by conspiracy nut

 

Maybe you don't care but I do because the media is blaming whites when Zimmerman is not white.

I understand what you're saying about whites being blamed...but the entire white race didn't do this...George Zimmerman did and America understands that. Black Americans just want justice regardless of his race. They want something done about this. The sooner the better.

This is the same way other races feel when a crime has been committed and an entire race gets labeled one way because of the insane actions of one village idiot.

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1

Originally posted by Ameliaair
reply to post by conspiracy nut

 

Maybe you don't care but I do because the media is blaming whites when Zimmerman is not white.

I understand what you're saying about whites being blamed...but the entire white race didn't do this...George Zimmerman did and America understands that. Black Americans just want justice regardless of his race. They want something done about this. The sooner the better.

This is the same way other races feel when a crime has been committed and an entire race gets labeled one way because of the insane actions of one village idiot.

But he is NOT WHITE

JEWS DO NOT IDENTIFY AS WHITE AND NEITHER DO HISPANICS

Nobody said he wasn't guilty,or playing the system.Hes just taken a really basic law and tailored his story to fit it....it's up to a jury now ,not a bunch of outraged keyboard tappers....you have to keep your bias away from laws and let the facts work themselves into the daylight....remember the Danroy Harvey kid from Boston,shot at college in NY because he tried to run down some cops?All the outrage and anger til the facts got out....Now who even remembers it?

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Nobody said he wasn't guilty,or playing the system.Hes just taken a really basic law and tailored his story to fit it....it's up to a jury now ,not a bunch of outraged keyboard tappers....you have to keep your bias away from laws and let the facts work themselves into the daylight....remember the Danroy Harvey kid from Boston,shot at college in NY because he tried to run down some cops?All the outrage and anger til the facts got out....Now who even remembers it?

Danroy Henry....sorry

Originally posted by Ameliaair

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
reply to post by Ameliaair

 

He's Hispanic Jewish? Where did that come from? That's the first I've heard that. But even if he is, I still don't get why it isn't a hate crime if he mumbled any words as is being reported as a possibility that he did on the 911 call.
Being Jewish isn't a race it's a religion...so maybe he is a practicing Jew...I dunno and don't care to be honest. BTW, could you point me in the direction of where you saw or read that he's a Hispanic/Latino practicing Judaism...that's interesting.

So if it turns out he's a Hispanic/Latino practicing Judaism, how would that excuse this murder from being a hate crime?

Hispanics are just as racist as the next race.

Really? Tell the jewish people they are not an ethnic people. See what they tell you.

I used to be naive also but after being told time and time again by jewish people they are not only religious but ethnic, I'll oblige.

Look, I'm not going to argue this with you because it's a waste of time, nor am I naive. I will say however that I am bi-racial. After having a DNA test performed my results came back as belonging primarily to the Sephardic Jews and half Native American maternally. Am I a practicing Jew, no, were my maternal ancestors, yes, like 200+ years ago! I think religion in general is a waste of time. It's currently a highly debated issue in the genealogy community whether being Jewish is a race. But as of now, there isn't one piece or shred of evidence linking Jews as a race. You're either Black, White, Native American, or Aisian...that's that.

ETA
Jews are racist too

reply to post by Ameliaair


i believe the media is blaming racial profiling and over zealous watchmen that do not follow orders when given orders from 911. if 911 told him not to engage or follow the "suspect" why did he even call 911 since he felt he was above the law? why did he call 911 46 times in the past year if he is above the law?

like i said before i dont care if zimmerman was blue, red, pink, black, white whatever, what he did was wrong and how about you acknowledge that instead of pulling out the reverse race card?

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1

Originally posted by Ameliaair

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
reply to post by Ameliaair

 

He's Hispanic Jewish? Where did that come from? That's the first I've heard that. But even if he is, I still don't get why it isn't a hate crime if he mumbled any words as is being reported as a possibility that he did on the 911 call.
Being Jewish isn't a race it's a religion...so maybe he is a practicing Jew...I dunno and don't care to be honest. BTW, could you point me in the direction of where you saw or read that he's a Hispanic/Latino practicing Judaism...that's interesting.

So if it turns out he's a Hispanic/Latino practicing Judaism, how would that excuse this murder from being a hate crime?

Hispanics are just as racist as the next race.

Really? Tell the jewish people they are not an ethnic people. See what they tell you.

I used to be naive also but after being told time and time again by jewish people they are not only religious but ethnic, I'll oblige.

Look, I'm not going to argue this with you because it's a waste of time, nor am I naive. I will say however that I am bi-racial. After having a DNA test performed my results came back as belonging primarily to the Sephardic Jews and half Native American maternally. Am I a practicing Jew, no, were my maternal ancestors, yes, like 200+ years ago! I think religion in general is a waste of time. It's currently a highly debated issue in the genealogy community whether being Jewish is a race. But as of now, there isn't one piece or shred of evidence linking Jews as a race. You're either Black, White, Native American, or Aisian...that's that.

edit on 3/21/12 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)

Ok, good. You just proved my point. YOUR DNA CAME BACK AS JEWISH

Originally posted by Ameliaair

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1

Originally posted by Ameliaair
reply to post by conspiracy nut

 

Maybe you don't care but I do because the media is blaming whites when Zimmerman is not white.

I understand what you're saying about whites being blamed...but the entire white race didn't do this...George Zimmerman did and America understands that. Black Americans just want justice regardless of his race. They want something done about this. The sooner the better.

This is the same way other races feel when a crime has been committed and an entire race gets labeled one way because of the insane actions of one village idiot.

But he is NOT WHITE

JEWS DO NOT IDENTIFY AS WHITE AND NEITHER DO HISPANICS

Where have you been? You don't know about Hispanics claiming to be white on Census records, school records, employment records? Come on now, you talk about naive! Of course they do...all the time. I used to work in human resources and Hispanics do this all the time. When a Jew fills out a form that asks what their race is do you ever see a bubble that says Jew? So what race do you think they bubble in...White.

"OK we don't need you to do that"is not an order and a dispatcher has no authority to order anyone to do anything....that argument keeps surfacing...it may be a trial point but has no bearing on the laws application