New Footage 9/11 Second Tower Explosion Incredibly Clear Video From Helicopter - Where Is The Plane?

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by Drunkenparrot

 

maybe if Stubblebine was still in charge of intelligence the reports of terrorists at the door would have been heeded and 911 would never have happened at all

well
24 more senior experts and a bunch of top guns to go...

Perhaps so, I certainly agree that a lot more went wrong than should have and that there was an abysmal failure on the part of the U.S. Intelligence apparatus.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

Taking specific accounts from a few people does not a "case for a missile" make.

Gee. I think I'll have that embroider on a pillow.

Hey ProudWeed, you should've discussed this with the media ten and half years ago. I'm just a bi-product of what I heard from the news and passing it on now.

One thing for CERTAIN......a missile absolutely positively 100% for certain, took out Flight 93 over Shanksville.
And I am 99% certain, its kin hit the Pentagon.
But....going off track which.....I seem to do a lot of when I post to you!

reply to post by ProudBird

NORAD Stand-Down
The Prevention of Interceptions of the Commandeered Planes
It is standard operating procedure (SOP) to scramble jet fighters whenever a jetliner goes off course or radio contact with it is lost. Between September 2000 and June 2001, interceptors were scrambled 67 times. 1 In the year 2000 jets were scrambled 129 times. 2

There are several elements involved in domestic air defense. The air traffic control system continuously monitors air traffic and notifies NORAD of any deviations of any aircraft from their flight-paths or loss of radio contact. NORAD monitors air and space traffic continuously and is prepared to react immediately to threats and emergencies. It has the authority to order units from the Air National Guard, the Air Force, or other armed services to scramble fighters in pursuit of jetliners in trouble.

Routine interception procedures were not followed on September 11th, 2001.
911research.wtc7.net...

Layered Failures
The air defense network had, on September 11th, predictable and effective procedures for dealing with just such an attack. Yet it failed to respond in a timely manner until after the attack was over, more than an hour and a half after it had started. The official timeline describes a series of events and mode of response in which the delays are spread out into a number of areas. There are failures upon failures, in what might be described as a strategy of layered failures, or failure in depth. The failures can be divided into four types.

Failures to report: Based on the official timeline, the FAA response times for reporting the deviating aircraft were many times longer than the prescribed times.
911research.wtc7.net...
Failures to scramble: NORAD, once notified of the off-course aircraft, failed to scramble jets from the nearest bases.
911research.wtc7.net...
Failures to intercept: Once airborne, interceptors failed to reach their targets because they flew at small fractions of their top speeds and/or in the wrong directions.
911research.wtc7.net...
Failures to redeploy: Fighters that were airborne and within interception range of the deviating aircraft were not redeployed to pursue them.
911research.wtc7.net...

911research.wtc7.net...

"lie"?
the more of the OS defence I see the more I am inclinded to think the vid in the OP is a deliberate OS manuver
a deperate one

Originally posted by hooper
If you look back through the threads you'll find a poll where even on this forum they couldn't get better than, I think, 80% that think 9/11 was an "inside job"! I mean, if you can't muster better than 80% here, what do you think it looks like in the wider world??

You 'think' (means you didn't actually look

But dang 80% is AWESOME.... back when this started it was more like 30%

You cannot get 100% agreement even if Obama came out and said "We did it.." But 80%

That leaves 20% and of those 10% are likely neutral... so you guys blindly pushing the OS are fading rapidly... That means soon these 9/11 forums will go silent

reply to post by ProudBird


no response means that your post doesn't prove it wasn't a missle
missles can't respond to random human questions either

Norman Mineta Confirms That Dick Cheney Ordered Stand Down on 9/11
Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta answered questions from members of 9/11 Truth Seattle.org about his testimony before the 9/11 Commission report.

Mineta says Vice President Cheney was "absolutely" already there when he arrived at approximately 9:25 a.m. in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) bunker on the morning of 9/11. Mineta seemed shocked to learn that the 9/11 Commission Report claimed Cheney had not arrived there until 9:58-- after the Pentagon had been hit, a report that Mineta definitively contradicted.

www.jonesreport.com...

another OSer Cheney..caught lying

Thursday, March 27, 2008
The 9/11 Stand Down in 2 Minutes
NORAD, responsible for intercepting errant aircraft over the U.S., has a standard operating procedure for scrambling planes for interception which takes less than 15 minutes


They did this successfully (on time) 129 times in 2000 and and 67 times between September 2000 and June 2001.

Yet, on September 11th, they failed to do their job 4 times in a single day:

NORAD, once notified of the off-course aircraft, failed to scramble jets from the nearest bases
Once airborne, interceptors failed to reach their targets because they flew at small fractions of their top speeds
Fighters that were airborne and within interception range of the deviating aircraft were not redeployed to pursue them
You might think that the military couldn't find the hijacked planes because the hijackers turned off the transponders. However, a former air traffic controller, who knows the flight corridor which the two planes which hit the Twin Towers flew "like the back of my hand" and who handled two actual hijackings says that planes can be tracked on radar even when their transponders are turned off (also, listen to this interview).

As a former senior air force colonel said:
"If our government had merely [done] nothing, and I say that as an old interceptor pilot—I know the drill, I know what it takes, I know how long it takes, I know what the procedures are, I know what they were, and I know what they’ve changed them to—if our government had merely done nothing, and allowed normal procedures to happen on that morning of 9/11, the Twin Towers would still be standing and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive. [T]hat is treason!"
Norad's stand down on 9/11 was so blatant that Norad has been forced to give 3 entirely different versions of what happened that day, as each previous version has been exposed

georgewashington.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Danbones

 

There was no "stand down" of NORAD>

Just another "truther" lie.

What "orders" is he talking about?
His Chinese takeout order?

Cheney order NORAD to STAND DOWN. And if he DIDN'T then why wasn't Flight 93 shot down and............ not covered up??? They should've been proud!

The military absolutely shot down Flight 93 and there.....the bullsh1t cover-ups started.

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by Drunkenparrot

 

maybe if Stubblebine was still in charge of intelligence the reports of terrorists at the door would have been heeded and 911 would never have happened at all

well
24 more senior experts and a bunch of top guns to go...

Perhaps so, I certainly agree that a lot more went wrong than should have and that there was an abysmal failure on the part of the U.S. Intelligence apparatus.

yes, and examining what is, or was, wrong might someday result in something like 911 NOT happening again.
one can only hope...

reply to post by Danbones


Either that, or it could be providence, as Ipedsixit said.
You just never know, it could have been manipulated from the start.
( ETA the object in the other videos some claim to be a plane added in)

So many of the videos with planes look fake, and the ones that they claim
are real just raise more questions.

911review.com...

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Danbones

 

There was no "stand down" of NORAD>

Just another "truther" lie.

and:

To bad there is no human responce from the "vehicle" carrying the transponder..

Another indication that there is no comprehension of aviation, and how things are in the reality of that industry.

The only person who would have been able to reply to ATC was a hijacker, at that point. He had no reason to....no point.

But, if you think that a missile carries a transponder, and that the controllers saw the code change, because there as a tiny person on the missile, then by all means, go with the same sort of ignorance and silliness as all the rest of 'em.....

if 911 was an inside job
of course they would have spoofed the transponder..

In telecommunications, identification, friend or foe (IFF) is an identification system designed for command and control. It is a system that enables military and national (civilian-located ATC) interrogation systems to identify aircraft, vehicles, or forces as friendly and to determine their bearing and range from the interrogator.

IFF was first developed during World War II. The term is somewhat of a misnomer, as IFF can only positively identify friendly targets but not hostile ones. If an IFF interrogation receives no reply or an invalid reply, the object cannot be identified as friendly, but is not positively identified as a foe.

There are many reasons for friendly aircraft not to reply to IFF, such as battle damage or equipment failure, loss of encryption keys, and wrong encryption keys. Terrain-hugging aircraft are very often poor candidates for microwave line-of-sight systems such as the IFF system. Microwaves cannot penetrate terrain, and very often atmosphere effects (referred to as anomalous propagation) cause timing, range, and azimuth

issuesen.wikipedia.org...




im sure if 911 was an inside job there is NO need of a little man in the boat

What a moron!!! You can see the plane come in from the top right of the screen. It disappears because someone tampered with the footage. At least edit it out completely if you are going to put it on here..stupid!!!!!!!

The reporter is heard saying " I could see parts of the airplane that crashed into the buliding...very small peices of the plane on the heliport, outside the building. The biggest peice I saw was about 3 feet long it was silver, and had been painted green and red but I could not see any identifiable markings..."

Also, about 2:30 into the video the woman reporter states that there was an eyewitness who saw the American Airlines Jet appeared to land short of the Pentagon!

Then the male reporter responds, and further elaborates about the very small pieces of the airplane, small pieces that you could pick up with your hand. No parts of the tail sections, wing sections, no parts of the fuselage.

Originally posted by ProudBird

Another mistake, and/or a lie (not that zorgon lied, mind you.....an innocent victim, and just repeating someone else's lie).

So be so kind as to show us the exact engine in question then and how big it is... I mean after all you ARE interested in the TRUTH right?


And while your at it explane to me where the plane ,Flight 93, is in these pictures. Also explane to me why these guys are all just milling around DOING NOTHING... also explane to me why all we see is one little volunteer brigade firetruck responding. And stop with your misdirection crap about what websites the images are posted on OF COURSE they will be posted on a conspiracy site... where ELSE would they be posted. Just a red herring so typical of you debunkers









Well here it is on Channel 13 news This airplane just disappeared COMPLETELY into a small crater. If you really buy THAT story, there is really no hope for you

WHERE IS THE PLANE? WHY ARE NONE OF THE RESCUERS DOING ANYTHING?



And you never answered my question about that simulator run with John Lear

Yes I HATE being lied to as well, Herr Weed Wacker, Marionnette de Chaussette

Originally posted by swm001
What a moron!!! You can see the plane come in from the top right of the screen. It disappears because someone tampered with the footage. At least edit it out completely if you are going to put it on here..stupid!!!!!!!

again we are examining the disappearing ufo and the reasons why it disappeared, and why someone would put a video out such as that as proof..or spoof?
there is some thread drift but it comes from all directions Osers and truthers...
911 is a complex subject..

This thread and its theories are well crafted and quite aged (2002). They were designed to smear the truth movement and mainly to mislead and derail the real investigator while defecating on internet forums such as this one and on the memories of the victims of 911.

The real 911 evidence has to do with Amdocs, Ptech, Israel, and other groups who used the 911 war games as cover while making it look like another group did as to create a reason to invade Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Libya, and eventually in their hopes, Iran.

I am certainly not critisizing the posting of the vid in the OP

As Proudbird says I am not an expert in any of these investigations.

I am just a typical reader / googler trying to make sense of a very confusing subject.
I am questioning the OS as a debating position because the Osers have a steady state position that doesn't appear to me to add up, but they have their arguements pretty well organized, and well, it takes two to tangle

I think that the OPs intent was to host a debate that is accessible to everyone who is interested rather than a purely technical debate limited to a few very specific points...
In that scense BTS has been extremely successfull, and if I didn't say starandflag before, I'll say it now.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


What about The Saudi's?
Hmmm.....waiting for your response???

reply to post by ProudBird


TWA says this is a 757 engine


www.flyian.net...


a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com...



none of THOSE are from conspiracy sites. Now you going to tell me that THOSE are not the real thing too?

reply to post by Shadow Herder


that may be so
if you have some links that indicate that, I'm all eyes
we have discussed the dancing israelis dressed as Arabs somewhat...
their release without waterboarding is an interesting clue, as was their connection to a mossad front company

Were they actually set up as the witnesses said: BEFORE the first plane hit the tower?

If just one point like that is true, then EVERYTHING that follows is under question.
that's an undeniable logical investigative supposition, that can't be escaped

there are many points like that.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
This thread and its theories are well crafted and quite aged (2002).

So we should just stop talking about it then?