The Bible and the war against God's true and only work.

reply to post by ILikeStars


DUDE, pics can be Photoshopped! I've got something far greater, how about historical and archaeological record?



Virtually weekly a new discovery in Israel, Egypt, or Babylonia debunks a skeptic claim about the historicity of the Bible and vindicates the Biblical accounts.

Deny Ignorance friend.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Waaaaait a minute. A friendly reminder that just because a story includes an actual place or some 'truth', doesn't make the whole story fact or vaildate the entire thing and in this case absolutely does not do anything to prove the claim that if jesus existed he was god.

Originally posted by Vsc1981
We all know that.

Uh, no...we don't. You may perhaps believe that yourself and so may others, but that does not apply to those of us who see your god equivalent to the gods in mythologies. In simple terms, there is absolutely NO evidence that any god exists to this day, despite numerous claims from various societies and cultures around the world. And if there is...please make the proper references that supply substantial evidence that can affirm these claims. Not stories or so called eye-witnesses. And don't bring up the bible, because that is not a form of viable evidence by any means. That is how you deny ignorance. ...What you seem to be doing is spreading it around...

reply to post by Garfee


Dude, there is no way I can fathom that you already watched that video, it's 1 hour 20 minutes. And secondly, the person I responded to wasn't asking for proof of supernatural, he showed a picture of the Bible. I can't put my trust in skeptic claims that repeatedly get proven to be erroneous. If i can't trust them for the physical truth, why would I even consider their opinions to what we CANNOT test and verify, the supernatural claims?

You might not be aware of this, I wasn't born with a Bible in my hand. I was "turned" only recently in my life, reluctantly yes, but I was turned nonetheless.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I didn't even notice that there was a video! haha. I really don't watch them on this site unless I absolutely must.

The phrase, "pics, or it didn't happen" used to bug me to no end but now that I see it in the context of religion - I really understand it.

If you suggest that this video is watchable for a non-christian, I will give it a crack over the weekend.

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

I assure you Jesus did

Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Matthew17

And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
Mark12

edit on 21-3-2012 by Rustami because: (no reason given)

I do think that you may not interpret things well, as in Matthew 17 they appeared to be having a vision, which was soon corrected. They wanted to make a tabernackle, which is typically for worsphiping god or the ark. They want to worship Jesus as god, but he corrects them. As the passage goes, Jesus corrects them in telling:

=====

www.biblegateway.com...

9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

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The subsequent passage has Jesus awaken them from that wrong vision, and their visions were gone leaving a man named Jesus.

The "Son of Man" speaks to Jesus being the Prophet in the same way of John the Baptist.


In Mark 12, this is the middle of Pharisees trying to catch Jesus in being god, in tricky little discussions of what happens to the Wifes of the Dead. Prophet Moses had visions with the burning bush, so Jesus is allowed visions. Jesus brings back the words of Moses, as if from the dead, to defend his parable responses to the disposition of wives. Jesus just wanted to be the Son of Man, a prophet, but his followers were determined to make him god and someone to be worshiped. If they wanted to do this, the only way he might become a Son of god is after the resurrection, not before. It is obvious they wanted to make Jesus god with tabernakle terms.

www.biblegateway.com...


In the story of Moses and the Bush, Moses saw a natural event (volcanic related vent of acid vapors) and his associative vision saw this natural event was the same god of his predecessions. Bible interpretations of prophets often have their "associated visions," as associated with an event, when the Prophets inner self vision gets blended into the vision's recount.

Most of the Jesus followers were not of the Essene, but followers hoping to learn from his knowledge and interpretations. They were in training to learn the Master's Craft and there were some rituals involved for the successful. One appears to be the issue of Lazareth, who had to die due to his old beliefs and become reborn in the new and more pious beliefs of a Master. So, when Jesus calls out to Lazareth, it is one high Master greeting a New Master's passage into that high regard as master that required his ritual death and rebirth.

The Mason rituals attempt to follow some of these old rituals on death, rebirth, resurrection. Even the Skull and Bones get into the given up for death issues, passing over water, and given life again----as a sort of story of Moses being given up for dead and saved to go on to become a most high prophet and originator of monotheism.

Originally posted by ILikeStars

edit on 21-3-2012 by ILikeStars because: (no reason given)

Well, let us toss out the Warren Report's photo as a bigger book, and say that it didn't happen or that it didn't happen in the way they wanted everyone to believe with devicive words and presentations of things that were impossible to believe.

Same Critical Thinkers that don't buy the Warren Report, have similar issues with making similar Magic Bullet miracles in the Bible's Narratives.

The Warren Report contained embellishments to hide the truth, and the Bible accords that make embellished "Magic Bullets" mircles have similar problems. To gather the truths of the Bible one has to be able to discern that god for them was often a natural force, that they had rituals and beliefs that always involved miracles, which would not be a miracle today.

The Bible was made by Constaintine for political purpose and so was the Warren Commission's Report created for political purpose by those not supposed to lie, shade the truth, or engage with those that murder for power and wealth. Lots of Christians there.

And your point is the Bible's 66 Books was written by man, but packaged into a political book by Constantine and embellished with Pagan Babylon's Empire goals and the truth altered to protect the Empire's want of money. Sounds like the Warren Report to me, mostly witten by Christians.

In the lost tomb of Jesus, why does a risen Jesus need a bone box and his mother more revered as the Master.

Only ritual non-sense does not provide people able to sit with Jesus now, and can't explain why one so godlike had to endure death and resurrection, other than superficial non-sense driven by old religion rituals.

If speaking of god or Jesus, the Diest tend to get it right. The embellished story Christians also have an old Bridge across the Hudson they'd like to sell you as well. You might not want to invest in a book without a solid contract vetted by all those in the world, else you own nothing, not even truth.


Any real god would not need the convoluted nightmare presentation of the bible to spread his existance or authority. For a real god there would be no question, but for the greed of money and power and those who would make man into god there is a convoluted nightmare of the old rituals is all that remains.

Heaven is supposed to be on Earth, so seek not those that speak to Heaven in the Skies, for those are not the chosen people of the Essene. In life or in death, Jesus was supposed to be in Heaven Upon the Earth, but the Christians have so corrupted religion there is doubt Jesus or the rest of us can ever get to Heaven upon the Earth.

The Essene sought that Heaven not be a little place on Earth, perhaps begun at Mt. Carmel, as they sought that everyone would become servants to each other and live in each other's care as a worldwide heaven upon Earth, but those that resist equality of man and seek to lord over others have turned Earth into a Hell Upon The Earth.

Since when did the "I am that I am" need some convoluted book for an introduction, as nature's ways/mother nature around everyone needs no introduction back in those times or now. If the "I am that I am" did need an introduction, then science and truth would be the more welcomed introduction of that to man. Then Moses would make better sense, and Noah's words on environmental disasters that used the same terms as "Silent Spring" from Rachel Carson on observations of birds due to toxic emissions. Even the secret power of the Ark would be common sense to grade school kids and nobody needed some silly book of contrived miracles from nature's ways. For those with the power of Critical Thinking, the Bible is as obsolete as the Warren Report.

reply to post by Garfee


wrong, I used to think it was all just something for the weakminded...until
I was personally visited and spoken to -then started studying the "story"

reply to post by MagnumOpus

Diests are sometimes called Athiests because they don't buy into supernatural miracles or Trinity for Jesus, but then the Essene and Jesus didn't buy into that either. So, were they too athiests for understanding all the Bible's Language was about nature's order when put into the correct natural settings contexts that we know today? Are Scientist too atheist, or do they actually study the ways of the diest view on god.

Diests are sometimes called Christians, by those who get the message of the Essene and Jesus correct.

I myself am a Diest in many ways, and a Wiccan in other ways. I have neve once thought that three males made everything and sit up in Heaven in Judgement over it's creation. I tend to think of Deity much like myself. I have created a great many things in my life, some of them beautiful automobiles that the owners cherish even today. I feel not the need to "lord over them," I did my thing, got paid, and walked away, ready for new ventures.
I have never met an Essene, but I do know a few Gnostics, and I understand these sects think in may ways like I do.

Diests are sometimes called Athiests because they don't buy into supernatural miracles or Trinity for Jesus, but then the Essene and Jesus didn't buy into that either. So, were they too athiests for understanding all the Bible's Language was about nature's order when put into the correct natural settings contexts that we know today? Are Scientist too atheist, or do they actually study the ways of the diest view on god.

Yes, and they are called other things, too. This "Trinity" thing goes way back in history, there have been many Trinities, but only Christianity has the three males thing. Often wondered why this is?
Was this dogma an effort to suppress women, or something bigger....
the existence of a Female Deity?
"God" in reality is a job description, we human beings have no speech to describe, no idea of concept and design of it, and no language to even speak of what, or who it is.
Now humans will be human, so after the ET Gods all left, they had bred hybrids to delegate their orders to humankind , humankind felt it necessary to have the presence of the Gods with them, so they built statues, and carved rocks to reflect what they had seen and known of the Gods. Humankind has the wrong idea about God/Goddess. They are not like us, they do not need anything we could give them, save Love, and they do not ever get involved in the affairs of humankind, for any reason whatsoever, to do so would negate Free Will, after all.

reply to post by Rustami


Right, well I'm gay and I'd rather be damned to fake hell than believe lies.

reply to post by mysterioustranger

Be careful when exclaiming or ex-pounding "truth"...when it may not be any kind or type of "truth" or "proof" to many. At least not while posting on ATS unless youre ready for a fight.

PS *I am a Christian as well....

Gee, that sounds a lot like a threat, friend? I am certain that MagnumOpus is quite aware of the infighting that will happen as humankind wakes up and comes to realize most of what he knows is lies, there will be fighting over truth, and over new thoughts, and over anything and everything. Truth will out, no matter what the religious crowd does, or says. I would much rather fight with words in this forum, than fight openly in the street. For myself, I have been here for awhile, I have had this fight with many self styled internet soul saving preachers who come in here with their "message." Most cannot even defend their original posting, much less what comes after as more and more become aware of the thread. All it takes is a working knowledge of the Bible, and Christian History, and the "Q," Document, Sumerian, Babylonian, Mesopotamian beliefs, and you are set to talk down any of these internet preachers.

reply to post by Garfee


God doesn't talk to us gay people. We're supposed to just take the Christians' word for it, live repressed lives and hopefully be saved. Waste of a life if you ask me.

Originally posted by drgrantdiz
just to clarify I said muslim OR past religions that predate christianity.

Okay.
Your wording was a little confusing. Sorry, and thanks for clarifying that.

reply to post by Rustami

Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Matthew17

I myself am quite aware of that verse, but take a hard look at it, and use your brain....this "bright cloud overshadowed them" was a Spacecraft, there were many sightings recorded in the Bible. Psalms 68:17 The chariots of God [are] twenty thousand, [even] thousands
of Angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the "holy place."

A Chariot is a conveyance or vehicle. In Psalm 68:17 it shows that "Angels" are always associated with Chariots.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Many UFO abductees say that the aliens came and spoke to them in a dream, while they were in their beds.

Flying objects in the Bible that are associated with angels resemble UFOs: Elijah's chariot of fire, the cloud-like "Pillar" that led the Israelites through the desert, and Ezekiel's wheel within a wheel. Some UFO aliens look just like humans; so do Angels in the Old Testament. Some ET Beings look like creatures; so did the creatures that Ezekiel saw. UFOs have been seen going off into outer space (the Second Heaven in popular lore). They cannot be demons, because demons were cast down to the Earth and can't leave the planet. Angels, like ET Beings have appeared in physical form and disappeared into thin air. Demons do not have flying objects associated with them, Angels do. ET Beings walk through walls and some abduct people. An Angel/Alien passed into the jail and walked Peter out though he was surrounded by guards. Angels, the sons of God in Genesis 6:2, had sex with Earth women; some female UFO abductees claim they either had sex with aliens, and some were impregnated with half human half alien babies, which were later removed during another abduction. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that demons have sex with people. An Angel announced to Mary that she would have a child while still a virgin; she was impregnated. (Under hypnosis by an ET who had sex with her)
Angels act as God's hands (slaves) to do His will. The Biblical evidence strongly suggests that UFO Aliens are the same as Angels. If UFO aliens are the Angels of God then the second coming of Jesus Christ will be a UFO invasion, since the Bible says He is coming back with Angels.

UFOs & the Bible: Genesis 6 & Nephilim 101

reply to post by MagnumOpus

The Essene sought that Heaven not be a little place on Earth, perhaps begun at Mt. Carmel, as they sought that everyone would become servants to each other and live in each other's care, but those that resist equality of man and to lord over others have turned Earth into a Hell Upon The Earth.

Exactly. Nice to have another person on board who realizes this.
We could have a serene and cooperative planet, a new way of living, if everyone agreed to live as they did. They really had their act together (and still do, in my opinion).

Originally posted by Glass
reply to post by Garfee

 

God doesn't talk to us gay people. We're supposed to just take the Christians' word for it, live repressed lives and hopefully be saved. Waste of a life if you ask me.

Yes, sad, isn't it? As far as I know, friend, only one "religion" gladly accepts all, even Gay people. Wicca. I am not Gay, but I am a strong advocate for Gay Rights, and legal Civil Union. I have two nephews, and a step son who are Gay, my female doctor is Gay, and several friends and some customers are Gay. Being Gay is not a disease, nor is there a "cure" for being Gay. Christians, no matter how much they wish they could, cannot ever pray the Gay out of anyone, in fact, attempts at this sometimes causes psychological problems down the road.

reply to post by autowrench

As far as I know, friend, only one "religion" gladly accepts all, even Gay people. Wicca.

The Episcopal Church does (a Protestant sect begun as the Church of England). It also accepts women as clergy, even lesbians. Priests are allowed to marry, and have children. Divorce is also not forbidden, nor is birth control.

They do use the Nicene creed, and practice the Holy Eucharist complete with transubstantiation rituals; they baptize babies, offer confession, have sacraments, and require training before receiving communion (confirmation). Folks who were once Catholic have embraced the Episcopal faith as a refuge, where they're free to believe in the same themes, but not controlled in their daily lives.

In fact, the Church of England (also known as Anglican and Episcopal) is a suitable alternative for Catholics who are excommunicated or choose to leave.

ATTENTION: I am not proselytizing the Episcopal faith in any way. I left it. I simply wanted to point out who they are, in case anyone wondered more about gays being accepted in any religion.

reply to post by autowrench


Perhaps in the circles of sciences this is called the "differing opinion process", where one tosses out the information that goes beyond the one book, old ways of speaking of how all sprang from god, and so forth.

In the old days, the rise of the sun, the food on the table, the bad crops and plagues were all due to god, nothing moved or changed without being ascribed to god. These days we'd call that a little riduculous.

Pushing into the realm of real science, real truth, and making the Bible rather obsolete is just science in action.

Hardly a fight, nor uphill battle, as the truth wins without battle, or need of fight. It wins on the merits of Critical Thinking by those who can. No real god would need use of the convoluted Bible tales for an introduction, but the gods of old rituals need this to confuse the minds of the simple man to gain wealth and power over those with the mental capacity oft termed The Beast.

The Catholic Church appears to have placed more value on Mary than Jesus, and in the Lost Tomb of Jesus this appears the case even in death as Mary gets the billing of "Master." Mary's theme much avoids the issues of resurrections, and speaks toward those that had the good idea to change the wrongs of religion, making Heaven upon the Earth, with much less controversy of playing rituals of god. Mary became the surviving Master for a reason...


Even in the information about the lost tomb of Jesus, one finds that it appears the Knights Templar knew just where this tomb was and even held some rituals there. They found the truth and that Jesus had offspring, which it appears they found and protected. They had really big secrets the Vatican didn't want them to know.

The Templars lived in honor of the Essene traditions, became the most trusted in banking, and their truth seeking so accurate it treatened the fairy tales of the Vatican and their goal of wealth. Lots of the Templars were killed for the same reason as Jesus, others went into hiding and continued in secret.

But there is one telling thing, that the line of Noah appears to have come from the fallen angles and there is a need or tradition to preserve the bloodline's mitochondrial mtDNA signatures, as it shows up in the tradiations of Judaism as being passed by the Mother. So, there is mtDNA science issues on if a person was Jewish as passed by the mother, which is the same idea behind mitochondrial mtDNA being passed. That would tend to make those that didn't keep to that tradiation hardly Jewish via the mtDNA definition. So, real science even explains the Jews who are not Jews. Jesus came from the bloodline of David and David went on back to Noah's bloodline. This theme even affects those that would be called Royal Bloodlines today.

So we find little themes like Reptilians, and Palladians----look a little deeper and we find this same mtDNA issue.

reply to post by MagnumOpus

Any real god would not need the convoluted nightmare presentation of the bible to spread his existance or authority. For a real god there would be no question, but for the greed of money and power and those who would make man into god there is a convoluted nightmare of the old rituals is all that remains.

God doesn't need written words to vindicate his existence. Faith is not tangible

It all boils down to who or what you attributed the physical world to. When I walk outside to see the complexity of nature and human compassion; when I stare into the incomprehensible vastness of space, to me it is proof of the LORD's existence.